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Denovo87
05-02-2010, 05:32 PM
I just noticed today some spots in the barrel of my newly purchased taurus Pt145 Mil Pro.
Gun is used only for 75 rounds and I am not sure whether these spots are present from the very first day?
Now after a month of my new purchase I am a sleepless owner of PT145 unltill I get the answers to below,

1) Is the gun still safe to shoot?
2) What can be the cause of these spots, high grainage ammo, my very careful nature always forcing me to clean the barrels to the hilt or some barrels have these so I should sleep contently ?

3) any cure to these?


http://s4.postimage.org/tdVc0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVtdVc0)

http://s4.postimage.org/tdXH9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVtdXH9)

Gilani
05-02-2010, 06:55 PM
Denovo sahib, could you please take the pics with a high resolution camera. Cant really make out the details :)
regards

AK47
05-02-2010, 07:04 PM
Denovo bro, plz post some better pics, this needs to be analyzed.

Use a better camera, and what about shooting in broad daylight, through the barrel and with camera on Macro?

Dr Hanif Malik
05-02-2010, 07:07 PM
@denevo sahib,in short my guess is only to clean properly,other is no problem:)

Dr Hanif Malik
05-02-2010, 07:14 PM
@denevo,sorry sir in hurry i forget to ask did you use the local ammo in this pistol??if you do that then wash with wt40 for 10 minute,and clean it :)

Salahuddin Ayubi
05-02-2010, 07:36 PM
Denovo bro,

From what I can make out from the pics, the spots are on one of the grooves towards the muzzle side.

I suggest the best thing would be to show (have it physically inspected) by the dealer from whom you bought it as well as some gun expert before you decide on your next course of action.

Btw, thanks for that call. Appreciate your concern. You're a brother.

Denovo87
05-02-2010, 07:54 PM
@ Gilani, Ak, Dr. haif bros, used best camera, High res & macro mode obviously :) problem is the spots like these cant be picked by an amature photograper like me, even then I think I secceed to show the spot ;) problem is the groove mashed/dinged/dented etc.

Was on phone with 12gauge brother while ago and his assesment seems 100% correct that is its either me doing rigorous cleaning FROM THE FRONT OF BARREL just mashed the groove with cleaning rod or it was already there (thanks to Taurus QC) and I noticed it just today.
According to 12gauge its 100% safe to shoot with the gun, this ding only can effect the accuracy (if there is any in 3.25" barrel gun) otherwise nothing to worry about shooting it safely.

Taurus
05-02-2010, 08:06 PM
Denovo sahab i think 12 gauge is quite right abt the rigorous cleaning well i would suggest hoppes's 9 its a solvent best to clean anything in the gun was recommended by abbas but i would also add one thing very important not to scare you seriously but when i bought my taurus 24/7 it was having a very clear cut in b/w the groove of the barrel i would recommend every1 buying a weapon specially taurus brands kindly check the important parts because the cut in my taurus was there since i bought and didnt fire a single shot ...and denovo sahab this is not as i clearly see that u might have used brass or cleaning rod harshly well this advice is 4 every1 who ever is buying a new handgun..

Salahuddin Ayubi
05-02-2010, 08:25 PM
+1 Taurus regarding Hoppes 9 anti-copper solvent. Results in squeaky clean barrels.

@ Denovo,

I was given to understand by members of this forum that cleaning any gun (handgun or rifle) from the muzzle side is a big NO NO. Therefore, I always take out the barrel to clean it and insert the brush from the breach side. Moreover, I think brass brushes are also not recommended, unless the barrel hasn't been cleaned since ages.

MHMalik
05-02-2010, 08:52 PM
Yes.. and pleaeeeese dont insert anything from the muzzle end. ALWAYS clean from the breech side.. ruins the crown or something..

AK47
05-02-2010, 09:28 PM
I believe we do the "quick" muzzle end cleaning after few shots, just because of being in kind of hurry. Cleaning from the breech side is best done course with the barrel out and gun stripped, which I personally only do after exhaustive shooting. Think I should re-consider this habit too.

As regards bronze brushes, honestly have never used them. I believe they're basically a cleaning item only for the careless shooter who rarely cleans his weapons, used or not used, not even caring for routine maintenance. Otherwise, for a caring owner, I believe they're mainly extra items in the cleaning kit.

Finally, about Den bro's gun, sorry I couldn't quite spot the spots! Seems, Den, your "overall" experience here is quite better than mine ;)

I'm however a bit astonished even by 12 gauge bro's opinion, since I believe spots due to cleaning issues from either side of the barrel should/could not have arisen this fast as I think Den may hardly have cleaned it 2-3 times since purchase, if I'm not wrong. Heck, it must have been rigorous cleaning if so! Den bro, it's only a barrel, dear, be tender! ;)

Finally, my own assessment, this wouldn't affect your shooting at all, can't say about marginal accuracy deviation, yet you're right, how much can it deviate anyhow, shooting already from a 3.25 incher!

From Taurus bro's notion above, it however seems we should inspect the weapons better at times of purchase, though at the stores in those moments, one is more thrilled about bagging up and getting back home fast!

In any case, bro, sleep well, 98% of shooters wouldn't even have noticed this minor thing and would just have kept shooting it for ages! Good Luck, and let's see some more target boards from you with dates and signatures! Regards.

Denovo87
05-02-2010, 09:55 PM
Thanks all for sympathetic words and advises, so lessons learnt today,

1) dont rush while buying a new weapon, inspect it carefully. Try to disassemble it to have a closer look for the obevious deffects before paying for the weapon.

2) Its always better & safe to approach the barrel from breach/chamber whether its assembled or dis-assembled, whether you are trying to insert a round or the cleaning rod, be safe never face the barrel from the side it shoots projectile out :)

3) Always keep good gun loving/caring friends in hand and pakguns is the best place for that pupose :)

So brothers am relaxed now and will sleep tight ... Thanks again.

Maximus
05-02-2010, 10:17 PM
i was going to suggest lexatonil or perhaps some valium for the sleepiing issues.
but looks like AK sb has covered the angles on the issue.
btw any other significance on not cleaning from the muzzle end?

A.Abbas
05-02-2010, 10:59 PM
Looking at the pictures, I have two conclusions (from the pictures I can't judge the depth of that dent)
1- This dented/eaten up is on the land of the rifling, only two reason can cause this kind of chipped/dent inside the barrel, i) this portion remain rusty for a long time i.e. before you bought the gun and when your fired some rounds and cleaned the barrel, the damage is exposed.
2- A hard metal jacket i.e. steel jacket type round (usually most local refilled are hard jacket) fired and when the slug moved through the barrel, due to grooving in the process on the metal jacket cause a steel buildup on the slug and due to rapid movement it hardened and scratched the barrel when the buildup was enough.

To my experience, the cleaning rod can't cause this kind of damage unless you intentionally hammer it in the barrel (as the
barrel inside is too hard for cleaning rod to be chip off), most damage a cleaning rod can do is only insignificantly scratch/
mark the surface only, if the damage is somewhat deep, it is not due to cleaning, this is my opinion.

Bottom line is, as 12gauge told you, it can only effect the accuracy and there are very very low chance of accident if the damage is not too deep.

GatlinGun
07-02-2010, 01:43 AM
I warned you on the PT145. I am hoping I am wrong on this one.

Hoppes No 9, and Bronze brush, do it gently. If it solves your problem, you are a lucky guy.
If not, wait till the Marketplace opens, and sell this to some new guy...

Good luck.

Slayerjatt
07-02-2010, 02:04 AM
i don't think brass brush can cause these spots because they are too soft for this until and unless the metal had some inclusions that chipped off. one reason could be that there must have been some small microscopic depressions/inclusions that acted as stress raisers and got deeper because of firing. the reasons quoted by a.abbas sb could be true as well but considering that the barrels are usually chrome lined, if there was rusting in the barrel that speaks volume about taurus' below par quality control. but then again if they aren't too deep, the gun is safe to be used.

A.Abbas
07-02-2010, 03:00 AM
I think chrome lining is not usually used in handgun barrels as the chrome lining uses the hard chrome process and this process some what effects the overall bore diameter eventually effecting the accuracy. What I heard that chrome lined barrels are mostly used in auto weapon.
Does any body know and explain the difference in detail??

Slayerjatt
07-02-2010, 03:36 AM
you are right about the diameter being affected but they must have some tolerances and allowances for it if they use it.

MIdreesTaj
07-02-2010, 08:31 AM
@Denovo87
It is COPPER BUILT UP.. it could be right there in NIB gun due to proof testing.. Copper from jacketed bullets has built a solid formation on one of your lands. It is called copper Fouling my friend and occurs due to rough spots inside the barrel which take up metal builup with time and use. It can happen as quickly as 50 rounds in your case.
There are 3 ways to correct this:

Use Hoppe Copper solvent, soak barrel for as long as a day, max a week. It is the slowest of all and might not work in some cases. It is the easiest way too.

Get your barrel lapped. Fire lapping or home lapping. For home lapping, Steel wool fine one, as can be seen here in Pak available as utensil cleaner scrubber, can be attached with a cleaning brush utilizing Hoppe Copper solvent as a helper to polish out the bore by repititive storkes (breech side) may take hours until success. Fire Lapping? dont know, you have to ask dealers in Lahore Neela Gumbad Market.. The Pathans especially. I am cent percent sure fire lapping is done here.

The most quickie of all, is Outers Foul Out Bore Cleaning System you can order on MidwayUSA under $30 (utilizing brushes and copper + lead solvents) Or the other as best as, option is Wipe-Out Bore Cleaning Foam(Brushless Foaming) under $15.

You can order them straightaway on the internet and will give you the best shot.

Denovo87
07-02-2010, 09:55 AM
Thanks all for the concern & suggestions, the mark/ding/gouge/dent or what ever its called is in groove and its bit deep but not deepr than the land itself. Its neiher was made by cleaning the gung nor its the copper fouling, now I am 100% sure it was there from the very first day I purchased it. I put same question on another forum taurusarmed.net and another owner of pt145 came there with the same issue and he found it in NIB.
The gouge gets clearer with cleaning instead of disapearing :) I am sure its Taurus QC issue and can be found many other firearms manufactured by them, you have to inspect the barrel very carefully with bore light cahnging the angle of light in different agles.
One more thing to prove that it was there in the barrel NIB, this spot is shinier than the rest of barrel surface :) so whatever chroming the barrel was treated with, was also done on this gouged area aswel as it was sitting in the barrel as a part of the finish.

Zhatash
07-02-2010, 10:02 AM
Thanks all for the concern & suggestions, the mark/ding/gouge/dent or what ever its called is in groove and its bit deep but not deepr than the land itself. Its neiher was made by cleaning the gung nor its the copper fouling, now I am 100% sure it was there from the very first day I purchased it. I put same question on another forum taurusarmed.net and another owner of pt145 came there with the same issue and he found it in NIB.
The gouge gets clearer with cleaning instead of disapearing :) I am sure its Taurus QC issue and can be found many other firearms manufactured by them, you have to inspect the barrel very carefully with bore light cahnging the angle of light in different agles.
One more thing to prove that it was there in the barrel NIB, this spot is shinier than the rest of barrel surface :) so whatever chroming the barrel was treated with, was also done on this gouged area aswel as it was sitting in the barrel as a part of the finish.

Seems it is indeed a manufacturing/QC fault :(

Mitho
07-02-2010, 10:30 AM
moral of the story don,t buy taurus.
hehhehehheheh

Salahuddin Ayubi
07-02-2010, 11:15 AM
moral of the story don,t buy taurus.
hehhehehheheh

Wrong. Rather, it is to be vigilant and inspect the weapon thoroughly before buying it.

razmataz
07-02-2010, 01:06 PM
moral of the story don,t buy taurus.
hehhehehheheh

Wrong. Rather, it is to be vigilant and inspect the weapon thoroughly before buying it.
+1

Denovo87
07-02-2010, 01:07 PM
moral of the story don,t buy taurus.
hehhehehheheh

Wrong. Rather, it is to be vigilant and inspect the weapon thoroughly before buying it.

Exactly SA bro, after this incident I decided to take bore light along, when ever I am out for new purchase and will suggest all the members to do so.

Gilani
07-02-2010, 01:11 PM
moral of the story don,t buy taurus.
hehhehehheheh

Wrong. Rather, it is to be vigilant and inspect the weapon thoroughly before buying it.

Exactly SA bro, after this incident I decided to take bore light along, when ever I am out for new purchase and will suggest all the members to do so.
And even with a bore light, be careful with Taurus :D ;) (except PT92/99, offcourse) :)

Taurus
07-02-2010, 01:37 PM
Guys I have adviced already to kindly inspect properly before buying a new firearm ...well my bro in law bought a stoeger and he found that theloaded chamber indicator is a bit out and the sights are a bit not adjusted and when i checked it was quite right it wasnt on the proper space and as for my taurus 24/7 i learned a very proper lesson to check thoroughly before buying a new firearm ...

AK47
07-02-2010, 03:20 PM
Guys I have adviced already to kindly inspect properly before buying a new firearm ...well my bro in law bought a stoeger and he found that the loaded chamber indicator is a bit out and the sights are a bit not adjusted and when i checked it was quite right it wasnt on the proper space and as for my taurus 24/7 i learned a very proper lesson to check thoroughly before buying a new firearm ... @Taurus.... Excuse my ignorance bro, but WHERE exactly is this to be found in the Stoeger, honestly have never bothered to check it out! :o

Second, plz also highlight the 24/7 issue. Thanks.