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View Full Version : Question about Remington Rand M1911A1 U.S. Army (1911A1)



candyman
05-05-2016, 12:21 PM
AOA,
I am a new member here, though I have been following Pakguns for long, this is my first post here.
I have a MOI arms license which has a .30 on it. I want to purchase a .45 1911, I know it's rare but I am getting my hands on one.

These are the pictures of the weapons I am getting. It has "U.S. Army" and "United States Property" written on it. Is it legal to own? Will there be a problem getting it on my license?
36409
36410

Ashes
06-05-2016, 01:58 PM
AOA,
I am a new member here, though I have been following Pakguns for long, this is my first post here.
I have a MOI arms license which has a .30 on it. I want to purchase a .45 1911, I know it's rare but I am getting my hands on one.

These are the pictures of the weapons I am getting. It has "U.S. Army" and "United States Property" written on it. Is it legal to own? Will there be a problem getting it on my license?
36409
36410

beautiful.

shouldn't be a problem sir, enjoy.

candyman
06-05-2016, 02:39 PM
awesome :thumb:

ajmal virk
06-05-2016, 04:19 PM
As per international law you cannot own this gun as this is property of USA army and they have international agreements no one can own and USA is USA but this is Pakistan you can have it as no one is usually aware of these type of rules.

shahroze
06-05-2016, 04:36 PM
As per international law you cannot own this gun as this is property of USA army and they have international agreements no one can own and USA is USA but this is Pakistan you can have it as no one is usually aware of these type of rules.

No you got your facts all wrong.

Leon
06-05-2016, 05:05 PM
As per international law you cannot own this gun as this is property of USA army and they have international agreements no one can own and USA is USA but this is Pakistan you can have it as no one is usually aware of these type of rules.

And you can give it to Ajmal Virk. He has the permission to keep such weapons.

ajmal virk
06-05-2016, 05:49 PM
Leon bro thanks

FA226
06-05-2016, 09:58 PM
As per international law you cannot own this gun as this is property of USA army and they have international agreements no one can own and USA is USA but this is Pakistan you can have it as no one is usually aware of these type of rules.
Very well said Bro.

sadatpk
06-05-2016, 10:40 PM
As per international law you cannot own this gun as this is property of USA army and they have international agreements no one can own and USA is USA but this is Pakistan you can have it as no one is usually aware of these type of rules.
its not the case here in Pakistan ,,infact so many replicas are available which have such foolish stamps ,how a U.s.A property gun may reach here ,secondly Ajmal said it satirically my dear Leon

TRX
07-05-2016, 12:20 AM
As per international law you cannot own this gun as this is property of USA army and they have international agreements no one can own

The US Government stamps almost everything as "US Property." They sold off almost all of their 1911s to the civilian market, not to mention ones they gave to foreign governments.

However, Remington Rand 1911s are quite highly desirable and collectible in the USA. Though the US government will have no interest in it, if you were to bring it to the US you would be plagued by collectors offering you money or trades. You might have to shout or throw sticks at them.

From the pictures the one you found looks to be in good shape. If the price is right, it's a piece of history you can own with pride.


[sometime in the late 1960s the US Navy sent a submarine up into the Soviet north, under the ice between the Soviet mainland and the arctic ice cap. Divers worked at extreme depth and freezing temperatures and found a military telephone cable connecting parts of the Soviet Rocket Defense Force bases and spliced a recording device into the cable. At intervals the sub would return to download all the information from the device. This worked fine until some Soviet communications technicians determined there was a fault in the cable, and when their divers arrived to try to fix it, they found a big box with "PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT" stenciled on the side. The Soviets instantly filed a protest against the American government, but the device was so secret it took the White House several days to find anyone who knew anything about it...

"It's the government. It doesn't have to make sense."]

Mian-50
07-05-2016, 12:24 AM
AoA all,

My Pakguns brothers wouldn't believe the fact that how could a 50,000 pounds sterling or
20,000 USD Shotguns were bought for meagre amount of 35000 and 50000 PKRs, that was
the magic of Russian invasion of Afghanistan.

All pricey PURDEYS,HOLLANDS, WESTLEY RICHARDS, Beretta SO series, KRIEGHOFFS ,
WOODWARDS AND BOSSES were transported on DONKEYS from across the border.

Now for the second "EPISODE OF TERROR HUNT" one could easily see these kind of
proprietary items.

TRX
07-05-2016, 12:36 AM
Candyman, can you put up some higher-resolution pictures for us?

I'm not an expert, but if anything looks "off" I might be able to find someone with better knowledge of antique 1911s to look.

It would be particularly helpful if you could field-strip it and show the inside of the slide, the barrel bushing, and the barrel. If the gun is an imitation instead of a real Remington-Rand its most likely to show up inside.

ajmal virk
07-05-2016, 08:49 AM
Once i read this information of US property thing in a very reliable information source so i thought i would share and really loved that Leon bro asked our friend Candyman to gift this to me that really sounds good and Sadaatpk bro thanks for telling us that there are so many copies and recently we can see many Colt etc AR,s with Property of US Army logo proudly Made or mixed in Legendary DAK (dara Adem Khel) .

hmd
07-05-2016, 11:21 AM
Once i read this information of US property thing in a very reliable information source so i thought i would share and really loved that Leon bro asked our friend Candyman to gift this to me that really sounds good and Sadaatpk bro thanks for telling us that there are so many copies and recently we can see many Colt etc AR,s with Property of US Army logo proudly Made or mixed in Legendary DAK (dara Adem Khel) .
I have also seen many Colt and 1911 with these marking in Khi market as well for sale with few dealers . Thou haven't seen any DAK made weapon with these marking . I won't be surprise if I come across .

D3AD!
07-05-2016, 04:22 PM
I have also seen many Colt and 1911 with these marking in Khi market as well for sale with few dealers . Thou haven't seen any DAK made weapon with these marking . I won't be surprise if I come across .

Me too, witnessed DAK made M4/M16 stamped with "US Property"

zia raza
07-05-2016, 04:53 PM
Me too, witnessed DAK made M4/M16 stamped with "US Property"

chalo thats good people started admitting now ... that they have came across such things...

jonnyc
07-05-2016, 08:36 PM
A. There is nothing illegal at all in owning old guns with US Property markings.
B. When the US military took their 1911s out of service, they unfortunately did not sell them on the civilian market. There are voer 100,000+ sitting in US government warehouses. There is a chance that some will be released for sale in the next year or so.
C. Without a good look at the markings of the pistol in question, I wouldn't be so sure it is an original Remington-Rand.

Dr Zakir
08-05-2016, 04:40 PM
Presently 1911 clones are not being made .so if the condition is good and price is right u can buy as a collector piece

sadatpk
08-05-2016, 07:18 PM
Once i read this information of US property thing in a very reliable information source so i thought i would share and really loved that Leon bro asked our friend Candyman to gift this to me that really sounds good and Sadaatpk bro thanks for telling us that there are so many copies and recently we can see many Colt etc AR,s with Property of US Army logo proudly Made or mixed in Legendary DAK (dara Adem Khel) .
I was expecting the same reply Chaudhry sb,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

candyman
11-05-2016, 01:39 PM
Some inside pictures and marking.. this is as high-res as I could go ;)
36418
36419
36420
36421
36422
36423
36424

candyman
11-05-2016, 08:02 PM
Some more...
36425
36426
36427
36428
36429
36430
36431

pakistanitoup
12-05-2016, 10:31 AM
Some inside pictures and marking.. this is as high-res as I could go ;)
36418
36419
36420
36421
36422
36423
36424

something is not right about this gun.

regards

shahroze
12-05-2016, 12:05 PM
something is not right about this gun.

regards

Yea somethings not right.

pakistanitoup
12-05-2016, 12:10 PM
Yea somethings not right.

this is not how a hundred year old gun is supposed to look.

this looks few months old. embossing and finish is looks fishy to me.

Ahmad
12-05-2016, 01:20 PM
Gun is in perfect condition. Its perkerising is in good shape & all markings are fine. It should be 1943 made. Barrel is correct for this dates. I wont hesitate to buy it.

Ahmad
12-05-2016, 01:21 PM
May I ask what is the price point of this gun.

D3AD!
12-05-2016, 03:54 PM
this is not how a hundred year old gun is supposed to look.

this looks few months old. embossing and finish is looks fishy to me.

agree. It looks too much new. but again if untouched war time stored Luger PO8's can be sold then this one might be possible also

Ahmad
12-05-2016, 05:20 PM
Look how crisp every marking is. Refinishing blurs the marking. Every single mark is very crisp.

TRX
14-05-2016, 08:07 AM
something is not right about this gun.

Unfortunately, I agree. The surface finish is very poor; it was either badly rusted at one time or it is a poor casting. The curve over the trigger guard should not be there. The back of the slide is very rough, and the fit of the extractor is very bad. The surface should be blued or Parkerized; this gun is painted.

If it passes all the safety checks here:
http://www.cylinder-slide.com/1911safetyck.shtml
http://www.m1911.org/technic25.htm
it might be a decent shooter if the price is right, but I doubt it has any value past that.

Afzaal
17-05-2016, 12:13 PM
Unfortunately, I agree. The surface finish is very poor; it was either badly rusted at one time or it is a poor casting. The curve over the trigger guard should not be there. The back of the slide is very rough, and the fit of the extractor is very bad. The surface should be blued or Parkerized; this gun is painted.

If it passes all the safety checks here:
http://www.cylinder-slide.com/1911safetyck.shtml
http://www.m1911.org/technic25.htm
it might be a decent shooter if the price is right, but I doubt it has any value past that.

Be sure DAK guys rocks lol.
Cannot make replica of a man but any gun.

candyman
18-05-2016, 05:18 PM
Thank you brothers for your feedback.
This gun is a gift to me by family :wof:
It has remained in the family for more than 25 years now.
TRX bhai, I will try the safety checks and post the results here soon.

TRX
20-05-2016, 07:59 AM
A gift? It might be a copy, it might be a real Remington that saw hard times and was refurbished. It doesn't matter. If it passes the safety checks, just shoot it and be happy.

If the gun fails any of the checks just post the details and I'll try to help you out.

This page may have some useful 1911 information for you: http://dave2.freeshell.org/1911/index.htm

Ahmad
20-05-2016, 10:10 AM
A gift? It might be a copy, it might be a real Remington that saw hard times and was refurbished. It doesn't matter. If it passes the safety checks, just shoot it and be happy.

If the gun fails any of the checks just post the details and I'll try to help you out.

This page may have some useful 1911 information for you: http://dave2.freeshell.org/1911/index.htm

TRX never heard of any locally made copy of 1911A1 due to very low supply of ammo in past. As you have pointed out that gun is refinished, I don't see any buffing as the inspector general stamp is still crisp. I have seen many USGI 1911s here which are refinished & all the small marks are gone on them. Would you please school me on this.

pakistanitoup
20-05-2016, 11:33 AM
TRX never heard of any locally made copy of 1911A1 due to very low supply of ammo in past. As you have pointed out that gun is refinished, I don't see any buffing as the inspector general stamp is still crisp. I have seen many USGI 1911s here which are refinished & all the small marks are gone on them. Would you please school me on this.

this 1911 looks like its painted.
they come with bluing finish as far as i know.

TRX
20-05-2016, 05:38 PM
The frame started as a casting; the sides were milled flat. Along the bottom edge, there should be a straight line from the grip, across the trigger guard, to the end of the dust cover. Candyman's gun has an arched line there.

The fit of the extractor to the back of the slide should be very close; you can tell the extractor is there, but there should be no visible gap between the extractor and slide. The slide should also fit very closely to the ejector and frame rails; Candyman's does not.

After Candyman gets a chance to run the safety checks and hopefully shoot it, I'll try to persuade him to take the gun completely apart so we can squint at its innards some more. The nice thing about a military model 1911 is that it can be completely disassembled with no tools. A thorough inspection and cleaning is a good idea on a 70 year old gun...

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/toolbox.htm

http://coolgunsite.com/images/rem rands group/remrandstory.htm

Ahmad
21-05-2016, 09:26 AM
this 1911 looks like its painted.
they come with bluing finish as far as i know.
All USGI RR were perkerized not blued.

candyman
22-05-2016, 08:40 PM
Safety checks from TRX bhai's given links and a demonstration from youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTLx3EVfQB0

Thumb safety: Passed
Thumb safety click sound: No click sound
Grip safety: Passed
Grip safety click sound: No click sound
Disconnecter test: The pistol is semi-auto
Half-cock test: Hammer does not fall

So I guess this will be a safe decent shooter!!

Txshooter
23-05-2016, 12:36 AM
Congratulations..enjoy!

TRX
27-05-2016, 10:29 PM
Safety checks ...: Passed

Yay! Now take it out and see how it shoots.

If you've never fired a 1911 before you need to do a web search for "1911 hammer bite." If you hold the gun so the web of your thumb overlaps the tail of the grip safety, the hammer will pinch you very hard.

Also, while the official purpose of the lever on the left is "slide release", the notch the lever fits into is very small, and can suffer wear. Many people use the "slingshot" method; use the other hand, pull the slide back a few millimeters until the release lever disengages, then let the slide go forward. It's also a fairly common technique used by target shooters who aren't blessed with absurdly long thumbs and don't want to shift their grip with releasing the slide.

After you shoot it, I still encourage you to take the gun completely apart for cleaning and inspection.

NOTE: you have a "government model" 1911. It was designed to shoot US Army .45 caliber "ball" ammunition. If it successfully feeds, fires, and ejects such ammunition. the gun is functioning correctly. If it doesn't, there's a problem.

If you are using anything OTHER than US Army issue ammunition or an identically-loaded copy, the gun might not be reliable. The 1911 wasn't designed to feed hollowpoints, wadcutters, or flat-nosed bullets; if it doesn't feed then, the fault is with the ammunition, not the gun. *MOST* 1911s will work okay with modern "defensive" ammunition, but if it won't properly feed SCREAMING NINJA DEATH CLAW THROATRIPPER MEGA BLASTER ammunition from Pancho's Pizzeria and Ammunition Emporium, don't assume the problem is with the gun.

Ahmad
27-05-2016, 11:13 PM
@TRX being a 1911A1, i dont think there will be hammer bite as it has longer grip safety however original 1911 will have hammer bite.

TRX
28-05-2016, 02:50 AM
It depends on your hand and your grip. Mine is an A1, and I quickly learned how not to grip it...

Ahmad
28-05-2016, 08:12 AM
Strange, I have 2 A1s & never had any problem.