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Thread: PakGuns Guns Cleaner and Lubricant

  1. #21
    Supreme Member Ilyas's Avatar
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    @12 gauge... knowledge you have is quite amazing and the way you pen it down is
    really impressive :)
    And after doing this greasing with words (although it's true and without any doubt, well deserved) I hope
    I'm getting some oil for my guns, if you are coming to the Peshawar gtg :)

  2. #22
    Senior Moderator 12GAUGE's Avatar
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    We would also like to know about your home made cartridges.
    I've made mostly exotic ammo shotgun shell. my first one was Rock salt, when fired it throws rock salt at the assailant at high speed and temperature supposidly causeing severe burning sensation but no permanent harm.

    I've made rubber slugs supposidly knock down an opponent, its also less-then-lethal. no permanent harm (i'm assuming the rubber slug to be fired at chest/legs no head shot).

    there were plenty more, some were good ideas (rubber, rock salt) other were just plain stupid (nails, blades etc).

    currently i'm working on a low weight, high velocity, flatter trajectory, around 3,000 ft/lbs of energy foster type slug which can be safely fired through any degree of choke (i'm actually aiming for extra full choke). I've designed it totally by myself however the tappered head is being designed by my cousin (mechanical engineer specializes in wind drag/resistance) who is calculating the degree of the tapper of the slug head while keeping the coefficient of drag to the minimum to ensure lower wind resistance hence resulting in flatter trajectory. I've made and successfully fired slugs before but this time i'm aiming for 100 yards plus slug. and my approach this time is highly professional.

    here is the paperwork that i've done so far:



    it looks simple i know, but to get to these dimensions it took me almost one month of paper work and had to request the services of a maths/physics genius and had to consult with few reputable slug manufacturers.


    foster type slug dimensions:

    weight: min 25grams to 28grams
    length: 17mm
    dia: 17mm
    cavity dia. 12mm
    cavity depth. 12mm

    cavity is subjective to weight constraint, the slug is being designed to achieve following objectives:

    1. 100 yards plus effective range with reasonable accuracy
    2. safe to shoot even from extra full choke
    3. safe to shoot from local (desi) barrels
    4. to only require normal trap hulls or No. 4 shot cup wad
    5. to require standard shot charge.
    6. to achieve higher velocity and flatter trajectory by keeping the weight low.
    7. minimum of 3,000 ft/lbs of energy delivered at the target at 50 yards
    8. cost of making should be as low as possible.

    Regards.

    p.s. kindly look into my design and see if you can add anything i'll greatly appreciate it.
    "The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave."
    James Burgh, Political Disquisitions, 1774

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by 12gauge
    We would also like to know about your home made cartridges.
    I've made mostly exotic ammo shotgun shell. my first one was Rock salt, when fired it throws rock salt at the assailant at high speed and temperature supposidly causeing severe burning sensation but no permanent harm.

    I've made rubber slugs supposidly knock down an opponent, its also less-then-lethal. no permanent harm (i'm assuming the rubber slug to be fired at chest/legs no head shot).

    there were plenty more, some were good ideas (rubber, rock salt) other were just plain stupid (nails, blades etc).

    currently i'm working on a low weight, high velocity, flatter trajectory, around 3,000 ft/lbs of energy foster type slug which can be safely fired through any degree of choke (i'm actually aiming for extra full choke). I've designed it totally by myself however the tappered head is being designed by my cousin (mechanical engineer specializes in wind drag/resistance) who is calculating the degree of the tapper of the slug head while keeping the coefficient of drag to the minimum to ensure lower wind resistance hence resulting in flatter trajectory. I've made and successfully fired slugs before but this time i'm aiming for 100 yards plus slug. and my approach this time is highly professional.

    here is the paperwork that i've done so far:



    it looks simple i know, but to get to these dimensions it took me almost one month of paper work and had to request the services of a maths/physics genius and had to consult with few reputable slug manufacturers.


    foster type slug dimensions:

    weight: min 25grams to 28grams
    length: 17mm
    dia: 17mm
    cavity dia. 12mm
    cavity depth. 12mm

    cavity is subjective to weight constraint, the slug is being designed to achieve following objectives:

    1. 100 yards plus effective range with reasonable accuracy
    2. safe to shoot even from extra full choke
    3. safe to shoot from local (desi) barrels
    4. to only require normal trap hulls or No. 4 shot cup wad
    5. to require standard shot charge.
    6. to achieve higher velocity and flatter trajectory by keeping the weight low.
    7. minimum of 3,000 ft/lbs of energy delivered at the target at 50 yards
    8. cost of making should be as low as possible.

    Regards.

    p.s. kindly look into my design and see if you can add anything i'll greatly appreciate it.

    Good Luck with all your positive idea.

    Regards.

  4. #24
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    @12 gauge, Well i tried the ed's red mixture minus the thinner as i read from other sources that it could be left out at the expense of losing the fast acting process. The solution looks like rooh-afza in milk. :/

    The solution does separate into two distinct solutions when left to settle in a bottle, is this normal ?

  5. #25
    Senior Moderator Ka_Khan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glocky
    @12 gauge, Well i tried the ed's red mixture minus the thinner as i read from other sources that it could be left out at the expense of losing the fast acting process. The solution looks like rooh-afza in milk. :/

    The solution does separate into two distinct solutions when left to settle in a bottle, is this normal ?
    I hope you dont taste it.I will soon be making this 'roo-afza' also.
    A Good friend & Gun ALWAYS helps you in Need !

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ka_Khan
    I hope you dont taste it.I will soon be making this 'roo-afza' also.
    :lol: :lol: :lol:

  7. #27
    Senior Moderator Ka_Khan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12gauge
    now store it in a large glass bottle. I use 1 liter pepsi glass bottle.

    I've been using this cleaner for a long time now and i'm totally satisfied with the outcome, mix a batch for under 500 rupees and u'll have enough for a life time of regular use.
    @12 guage...Any Expiry period?
    @Glocky...How much this 'rooh afza' cost you? :D
    A Good friend & Gun ALWAYS helps you in Need !

  8. #28
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    Rs. 400/= for the ATF
    Rs. 70/ for kerosene oil
    Rs. 60 for the spirit

    for 1 litre of each

  9. #29
    Senior Moderator 12GAUGE's Avatar
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    @12 gauge, Well i tried the ed's red mixture minus the thinner as i read from other sources that it could be left out at the expense of losing the fast acting process. The solution looks like rooh-afza in milk.

    The solution does separate into two distinct solutions when left to settle in a bottle, is this normal ?
    yes, thinner can be left out, but dont leave it out, In my experience, its absence lowers the effectiveness/power of the mixture. the thinner is not equal in strength to industrial grade acetone or methylethylketone (MEK), so dont worry about it.

    and yes, the solution does seperate into layers when left out, its pretty normal, just a good shake before use is all it takes.

    Regards.
    "The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave."
    James Burgh, Political Disquisitions, 1774

  10. #30
    Senior Moderator 12GAUGE's Avatar
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    @12 guage...Any Expiry period?
    I made my last batch over four years ago, still working just as fine.

    however i must insist on mixing only managable quanitities of the stuff. i learned the hard way that its practically very difficut to store gallons at a time.

    Regards.
    "The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave."
    James Burgh, Political Disquisitions, 1774

  11. #31
    Senior Member ay_be_why's Avatar
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    @12gauge, sir what do you think about ENGINE oil as a lubricant? i have no experience with it on guns but other than that, it does an amazing job as a lubricant...
    "Godfather, I don't know what to do...!!",
    "You can act like a man."

  12. #32
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    very nice info...

    lemme add my recepie as well ( nointention of hijacking the post!!)

    I add 1 part each of:

    Dexron 2 or 3
    10 W not 5 W synthetic motor oil (my mistake I apologize for that!)
    STP oil treatment

    this is my basic gun oil for cleaning all i do is mix the above with equal amount of kerosene... dump my gun in it for 1/2 to 1 hr and then wipe out everything!
    \"Sa viv deche des formas; ka sa maekus\"
    Knowledge flows through practice and patience - proverb

  13. #33
    Senior Moderator 12GAUGE's Avatar
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    engine oil is good lubricant, but only good enough, firearm lubricant is supposed to lubricate plus protect against rust (oxidation). engine oil may be a good lubricant it doesnt protect against rust.

    you can search articles about this issue over the internet. allow me to summarize what u'll find:

    engine oil good lubricant but bad rust preventive. hence automatic transmission oil is highly recommended, its formulation closely resembles (actually does more than required) a firearm lube. it has all the anti-oxidant stuff, plus it has detergents to clean as well as lube, its have surfacetants to float the dirt away from metal surface, it resists open-air oxidation (meaning it will not evaporate) plus alota other stuff. search and u'll have u'r answer.


    try this: engine oil is designed to lube and replaced after every 3-5K kilometers. on the other hand, an ATF is designed to be replaced after 50K kilometers. so basically, ATF has to do the same job but for a longer period of time. and guess what?, ATF doesnt come with oil filter, it has to do that job too on its own. techically, ATF is just alot more refined form of engine oil and has alot more additives added to it.

    Regards.
    "The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave."
    James Burgh, Political Disquisitions, 1774

  14. #34
    Senior Moderator 12GAUGE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9mm Luger
    very nice info...

    lemme add my recepie as well ( nointention of hijacking the post!!)

    I add 1 part each of:

    Dexron 2 or 3
    5 W synthetic motor oil
    STP oil treatment


    this is my basic gun oil for cleaning all i do is mix the above with equal amount of kerosene... dump my gun in it for 1/2 to 1 hr and then wipe out everything!
    question 1: why add STP oil treatment, it will make u'r lube as thick as honey. not recommended or advised. plus, take out material safety data sheets of STP, it has known carcinogenics(stuff that causes cancer) in them.

    question 2: why make it intentionally thick and then thin it with kerosene?

    question 3: where did u get straight weight motor oil in Pakistan, i would very much like to know.

    question 4: u mix all this just for cleaning, do u even know that the only cleaning substance u got in u'r formula is just kerosene (which is only polar in nature). why not use plain kerosene if u only want a good polar solvent.

    my take would be: u just copied the formula off the internet and didnt consult any chemical expert on this. I'm a total noob myself thats why I higly rely on expert help.

    my suggestion: bro, u'r wasting money and unnecessary chemicals for stuff that u can do alot cheaper and faster.

    stay away from STP, it contains benzene to thicken the oil (now u know why i asked where u got such water thin oil in Pakistan in the first place). benzene is known human carcinogen.

    if u have any questions for me, kindly ask without any hesitation, I'll gladly answer any questions that u may have. my love for shotguns and my inquisitive nature has benefited me as i've talked and met alot of people regarding the subject above.

    Regards.
    "The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave."
    James Burgh, Political Disquisitions, 1774

  15. #35
    Senior Moderator Ka_Khan's Avatar
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    @12 Guage...its good that we have such an expert with us.Do share your cartridge making skills in a separate thread.
    A Good friend & Gun ALWAYS helps you in Need !

  16. #36
    Senior Moderator 12GAUGE's Avatar
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    @12 Guage...its good that we have such an expert with us.Do share your cartridge making skills in a separate thread.
    will do my friend, will do

    Regards.
    "The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave."
    James Burgh, Political Disquisitions, 1774

  17. #37
    Senior Member ay_be_why's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12gauge

    ...try this: engine oil is designed to lube and replaced after every 3-5K kilometers. on the other hand, an ATF is designed to be replaced after 50K kilometers. so basically, ATF has to do the same job but for a longer period of time. and guess what?, ATF doesnt come with oil filter, it has to do that job too on its own. techically, ATF is just alot more refined form of engine oil and has alot more additives added to it.

    Regards.
    spot on sir, thanks.. why google around when you're here.. :)
    "Godfather, I don't know what to do...!!",
    "You can act like a man."

  18. #38
    Senior Moderator 12GAUGE's Avatar
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    @ay_be_why

    Thank you sir, i'm glad to be of assistance

    Regards.
    "The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave."
    James Burgh, Political Disquisitions, 1774

  19. #39
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    Actually I guess I didnt explain it to you clearly... note i didnt go out and spend hrs on phone and stuff for some thing you could get off the internet mix it and try it and hell yeah if it didnt work chuck it out and try something else

    the formula i wrote is a basic gun oil... KINDLY this must be remebered at all times

    why add STP?? well to make it cling and yea I mean cling so that it doesnt run off the rails..

    let m also add that if benzene is a human carcinogen then thinner doesnt do any good either to your health kindly follow the link below to find more about thinner effects:

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...9306921c63c4cc

    with due respect any solvent may it be benzene or thinner is not good for ones health you need to wear protective gloves...

    Lets b straight on this "all solvents are bad" follow the link here to see their effects
    http://www.inchem.org/documents/iarc/vol47/47-01.html

    PPL in US use Mobil 1 oil on their gun .. wont try it myself but yeah ppl do!!

    Your second question why thin it with kersone oil simple when i need to clean my firearm i add kersone as a solvent because the original recepie is not a cleaning agent but by adding kersone to it you can make one out of it simple!! the oil in there lubricates and the kersone cleans and yes I DO KNOW THAT KEROSNE IS THE ONLY CLEANING AGENT IN THERE AND THAT IS ENOUGH FOR US MORTALS who sparingly use their guns!!

    ALSO WHEN I SAID "SYNTHETIC OIL" that means it cant be a straight Weight it will be a multigrade!! by 5 or 10 I like the originator of this homemade recepie giving an idea and thats all!! .. we are talking common stuff its no rocket science even if you get mineral oil and add it it wont make that much effect ... synthetic because it will react better under high temprature (viscosity)

    ALSO THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK THE ENGINE OIL FACES EXTREME PRESSURE TEMPERATURE INSIDE AN ENGINE.. does one really think the oil will be subjected to the same amount of stress and temperature continously in a firearm?? NO WAY IS MY ANSWER
    we need to compare apples with apples here... and to clarify the same synthetic oils that needs to be changed here can be used in other places for longer..because we have a dusty enviorment.. the oil gets sticky quicker here.. but the lubrication is there!!


    WHY ADD ATF.. as you mentioned better rust protection and cleaning!

    I use this formula on my Taurus 24/7 and am satisfied with it...

    needless to add that the ED red you have mentioned is a very good home recepie it wont hurt nickel or blue finish but try a bit on wood and the acetone in it will ruin it like anything

    I think I have clarified more than enough.. your happy with red i am with this mix no offence bro but suggesting i just got off the web well thats just not the case!! kindly refrain from such assumptions..we are all here to discuss and share knowledge with each other and I am trying to do so in a civilzed manner and would warrant the same from all other members!

    I am using it and if you want some kindly PM me your address and i will send a free sample

    good day to you sire!

    and i do apologize for my preceived harshness but i am gobsmacked at your comments on me taking something off the internet and placing it here! no hard feelins mate lets discuss what we all love FIREARMS!!
    \"Sa viv deche des formas; ka sa maekus\"
    Knowledge flows through practice and patience - proverb

  20. #40
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    and to further add kindly follow the link below to find most of the home made recpies out theregive them a try and share your comments with us right here at PG

    www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm

    mine is under gun oil !!

    the idea to use it with kerosene i will attribute to jillanisb our dear member while he was explaining how to get rid off rust by adding equal amount of oil and kersone!! i tried it and liked the result so thought i share it with you all!!
    \"Sa viv deche des formas; ka sa maekus\"
    Knowledge flows through practice and patience - proverb

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