View Poll Results: Which Caliber do you think is better for Pakistan ?

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  • 30 06 SpringField

    8 26.67%
  • 308 Winchester

    22 73.33%
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Thread: 30 06 vs 308

  1. #1
    Administrator Abbas's Avatar
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    30 06 vs 308

    Salams, it is sacrilege for any forum not to have a discussion on 30 06 Springfield vs 308 Winchester.

    From a Pakistani prospective, which do you think is better ?

  2. #2
    Senior Moderator Denovo87's Avatar
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    30 06 is fine tuned/souped-up .308 better MV, ME, stability etc. but 308 is enough for anything available & economical to shoot in Pakistan.
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  3. #3
    Administrator Abbas's Avatar
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    I think it's the other way around, the 308 is a fine tuned 30 06

    Here's a chart courtesy Wikipedia relevant to this thread:


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  4. #4
    Senior Moderator Denovo87's Avatar
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    I think other way round should be, .308 is mellowed 30 06 and the table above is not comparing equally weighted bullets
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  5. #5
    Moderator Starfish's Avatar
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    The 308 is an efficient 30-06 ( a 3006 with EFI) :P The chart compares roughly the same bullet weights because exact bullet weights might not be available in two different calibers. Anyhow, I would consider this chart to be an accurate indicator of round performance.
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  6. #6
    PakGuns Elite! Avais's Avatar
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    Absolutely right denovo brother regarding the compared bullet grains. However if we consider the ammo types 30-06 is better than 308 as there is a big choice of ammo grains in 30-06 which is from 55 grains excellator bullets to probably 200 grains. 30-06 can be treated as sniper shot as well since it has got much improved energy as compare to 308.

  7. #7
    Senior Moderator 12GAUGE's Avatar
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    AoA Everbody

    Am I only one seeing things differently??????????? Starfish! I thought you were a science graduate? a single look at the numbers should have sufficed for you. quiet literally a single look is all that is required to instantly figure out which projectile wins by the huge margin. and NO! its no 308.

    Regards

    p.s.

    Take the derivative of the velocities with respect to distance. in otherwords, calculate the rate of change. in more other words, simply plot the graph and calculate the slope of the curve. the true shall reveal itself. Cha-Ching!

    HINT: you will find that the performance data posted above will show that 308 has a much steeper curve when compared to 30-06. so performance wise..........only performance wise 30-06 is a better choice.
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  8. #8
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    I think every one is missing a point , the chief did not asked which is the best bullet , he asked which one is best for Pakistan ?
    Sadly in Pakistan both these questions are not same and in that context i would have to say .308 wins hands down , get a dealer who knows some one on POF and shove G3 bullets down your .308 rifle and go to town with it .
    Though old stocks of Pakistan military 30-06 are available some places if ones lucky enough to get the right price !! i do not have any information on if they are still made in POF.??

  9. #9
    PakGuns Elite! Avais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arslan_tareen View Post
    I think every one is missing a point , the chief did not asked which is the best bullet , he asked which one is best for Pakistan ?
    Sadly in Pakistan both these questions are not same and in that context i would have to say .308 wins hands down , get a dealer who knows some one on POF and shove G3 bullets down your .308 rifle and go to town with it .
    Though old stocks of Pakistan military 30-06 are available some places if ones lucky enough to get the right price !! i do not have any information on if they are still made in POF.??
    Arslan brother you are 100% right but this theory works only on paper / target shots. But if we talk about hunting field 30-06 bullets varaity gives you ample satisfaction from Chinkara to Ibex.

  10. #10
    Administrator Abbas's Avatar
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    Damn the mods are out for blood tonight

    Can someone shed some practical light on the 308 vs the 30 06. Anything 99.99 % of us are going to hunt is within a distance of 300 yards. Does the 5 % extra power the 30-06 offers that much of a gain ?

    As for the bullet weights, you would be surprised what the 308 caliber has to offer. The following are available in 308:

    110 Gr, 125 Gr, 130 Gr, 140 Gr, 147 Gr, 150 Gr, 155 Gr, 165 Gr, 168 Gr, 175 Gr, 180 Gr, 185 Gr, 190 Gr, 200 Gr etc.

    I think the only advantage 30-06 has is for the hand loader who has more room to play around with the larger case.

  11. #11
    PakGuns Elite! Avais's Avatar
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    Chief I believe 5% of extra power works a lot in retrieving the hunt from big distances.

  12. #12
    Administrator Abbas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12GAUGE View Post
    Take the derivative of the velocities with respect to distance. in otherwords, calculate the rate of change. in more other words, simply plot the graph and calculate the slope of the curve. the true shall reveal itself. Cha-Ching!

    HINT: you will find that the performance data posted above will show that 308 has a much steeper curve when compared to 30-06. so performance wise..........only performance wise 30-06 is a better choice.
    Perhaps this graph will help Starfish save some time on plotting

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by avais View Post
    Arslan brother you are 100% right but this theory works only on paper / target shots. But if we talk about hunting field 30-06 bullets varaity gives you ample satisfaction from Chinkara to Ibex.
    Sir my theory is solely based on availability and financial factor , i have no knowledge about working of such big game bores , i have just yet scratched the surface about .22 pellets these things are far away from me yet .
    Though i do know many famous medium range sniper rifles which are solely based on .308 again why is that i have no idea .

  14. #14
    Senior Member M.ASIF KHAN's Avatar
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    if you only shot 110-160 grains, then there is very little difference.

    If you shoot heavier bullets of 165-200 grains then you'll start loosing 100-300 fps depending on the load and bullet.

    You won't be shooting anything heavier out of the .308.

    The .30-06 goes at least to 220 grains.
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  15. #15
    PakGuns Elite! Avais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arslan_tareen View Post
    Sir my theory is solely based on availability and financial factor , i have no knowledge about working of such big game bores , i have just yet scratched the surface about .22 pellets these things are far away from me yet .
    Though i do know many famous medium range sniper rifles which are solely based on .308 again why is that i have no idea .
    Arslan brother no arguments with your theory. Agreed that you expressed your opinion particularly for our local envoirnment where we can get the POF ammo for 308 at very reasonable prices. I just pointed out the other side of the basic query. Honestly i am very poor in technical matters but have little practical conclusions. Luckily I have used both the calibers in the past though right now I dont carry any of them. The biggest problem I faced was the lack of 308 ammo choice in our local market. In addition to this the history of my retrieving results from smaller to bigger hunts and from short to long distances were better with 30-06. I am just expressing my field conclusions without going into more technical discussions. Others may have the vice versa results.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by avais View Post
    Arslan brother no arguments with your theory. Agreed that you expressed your opinion particularly for our local envoirnment where we can get the POF ammo for 308 at very reasonable prices. I just pointed out the other side of the basic query. Honestly i am very poor in technical matters but have little practical conclusions. Luckily I have used both the calibers in the past though right now I dont carry any of them. The biggest problem I faced was the lack of 308 ammo choice in our local market. In addition to this the history of my retrieving results from smaller to bigger hunts and from short to long distances were better with 30-06. I am just expressing my field conclusions without going into more technical discussions. Others may have the vice versa results.
    Sir your knowledge is perfect , i have always prefer less technical and more field knowledge though some people enjoy it vice versa , with out going off topic i would like to ask you a question for my own benefit .
    If i am going for full week of hunt in some where Pakistan and i will get opportunity to shoot , big boars , chinkara , Hog deer , and then big game like Blue bull. , Condition is i can only carry one big rifle with me , ammo price and availability not a problem but choice in different type of ammo and grain is ,so which one should i take out of these three
    1) 30-06
    2) .308
    3) 7mm rem magnum .??
    Last edited by Arslan_tareen; 29-08-2011 at 02:34 AM.

  17. #17
    PakGuns Elite! Avais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arslan_tareen View Post
    Sir your knowledge is perfect , i have always prefer less technical and more field knowledge though some people enjoy it vice versa , with out going off topic i would like to ask you a question for my own benefit .
    If i am going for full week of hunt in some where Pakistan and i will get opportunity to shoot , big boars , chinkara , Hog deer , and then big game like ibex and markhoor , Condition is i can only carry one big rifle with me , ammo price and availability not a problem but choice in different type of ammo and grain is ,so which one should i take out of these three
    1) 30-06
    2) .308
    3) 7mm rem magnum .??
    Brother that's exactly why i am voting for 30-06. To shoot a chinkara with .308 or with 7mm mag is beyond imagination. To shoot an Ibex or markhore with .308 from longer distance though possible but is a challenging job however we can shoot all of these animals with 30-06 if we are carrying relative ammo. Since in your mail the choice of different ammo is problem so be kind on Chinkara.

  18. #18
    Nice discussion...
    ... agree with @Avais in favoring 30-06.

    As 150gr and 165gr are one the best bullet weights for Pakistan hunting environment, assuming same bullet weight/make/type below i.e:
    * 165 grains/Premier AccuTip (Boat-tail)/Remington
    * MV=2800fps (.30-06)
    * MV=2700fps (.308)
    ...... for sake of example and DIRECT & RELEVANT comparison :

    CRITERIA:
    #1) Terminal Energy (approx in ft-lbs ; same bullet 165gr)
    2100, 1800, 1500 ft-lbs ........ @ 200, 300, 400 yds respectively (.30-06)
    1950, 1650, 1400 ft-lbs ........ @ 200, 300, 400 yds respectively (.308)

    #2) Bullet Drop (in inches ; zero at 200yds for both ; same bullet 165gr)
    -3.2, -7.9, -22.8, -46.2 inches ........ @ 250, 300, 400, 500 yds resp (.30-06)
    -3.4, -8.6, -24.8, -50.1 inches ........ @ 250, 300, 400, 500 yds resp (.308 Win)

    I think to some, the comparison will matter, while others will take it as insignificant difference to matter. Secondly, the range of bullets in .30-06 is of course more (as is commonly known) , ranging from VERY small grain to as heavy as 220gr for heavy game. But the question is for Pakistan environment: What matters the most? Except target shooting where the G3 bullet (Wah made) which is not a hunting bullet by any chance, is cheaper in case of .308, and thus a better choice for target shooting...... but, for hunting, the stats clearly point to .30-06's upper hand.

    Download the trial (14day free ver) of the ballistics software : "Shoot Ballistics" or buy it online at:
    http://www.ballistics-software.com
    ...and check other stats in detail, for target shooter as well as hunter, handgun as well as rifle centerfire cartridges.
    Last edited by francolino; 29-08-2011 at 03:07 AM.

  19. #19
    Administrator Abbas's Avatar
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    Very useful statements from two good hunters:

    Quote Originally Posted by avais View Post
    Luckily I have used both the calibers in the past though right now I dont carry any of them. The biggest problem I faced was the lack of 308 ammo choice in our local market. In addition to this the history of my retrieving results from smaller to bigger hunts and from short to long distances were better with 30-06. I am just expressing my field conclusions without going into more technical discussions. Others may have the vice versa results.

    To shoot a chinkara with .308 or with 7mm mag is beyond imagination. To shoot an Ibex or markhore with .308 from longer distance though possible but is a challenging job however we can shoot all of these animals with 30-06 if we are carrying relative ammo. Since in your mail the choice of different ammo is problem so be kind on Chinkara.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Sultan View Post
    From my personal experience

    .308 Win
    I have used this caliber for my entire mountain hunting in Pakistan and abroad. I have shot Ibex upto 420 yards with it and found it adequate (this is if you know the "drop" at that range). I have also shot wildboar, Chinkara, Hog deer and Neel Gai with out any fuss. The bullet availability in Pakistan makes it my favorite caliber.

  20. #20
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    Thanks for the input Avais bahi very well put ,
    and Abbas bahi , your recent posts are suggesting that we are about to see some amazing rifle acquisition or multiple acquisitions from your side , cant wait to see what you finally put your hands on to .
    Best regards .

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