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Thread: .22 LR Rifle & Ammo by PakistanFirst

  1. #1
    Senior Member PakistanFirst's Avatar
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    High 22LR Ammo Prices

    I am new to this group. I notice the prices of the 22LR ammo is high in Pakistan. I usually buy 22LR ammo in bulk packs of 500-550 cartridges. My prices have varied (converted from US Dollars) from 1800 to 2200 rupees. Whenever there a sale, I pick up couple of bulk packs.

    I have bought Remington's Viper, Cyclone, Golden Bullet, Thunderbolt and Yellow Jackets. In the Federal brand -American Eagle and Game Shock. In the Winchester brand - SuperX, Xpert and Dynapoint.

    Target ammo is expensive. In a later post I will let you know how I "make" my factory ammo work almost like target ammo. But, this takes work and patience. Stay tuned...

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    Senior Moderator 12GAUGE's Avatar
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    @natsikap

    welcome to the forum. I hope you'll enjoy your stay here. yes! you are right. ammo prices are ridiculously high in Pakistan but you know, the best that we can do is make lemonade out of the lemons that we got.

    Regards.
    "The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave."
    James Burgh, Political Disquisitions, 1774

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    Member Mujtaba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12GAUGE View Post
    @natsikap

    welcome to the forum. I hope you'll enjoy your stay here. yes! you are right. ammo prices are ridiculously high in Pakistan but you know, the best that we can do is make lemonade out of the lemons that we got.

    Regards.
    12 guage kindly tell me baikal is bter or hatson for hunting under 60 k

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    Member Extraordinaire s.cheema's Avatar
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    welcome to pg

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    Senior Member Haider Shah's Avatar
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    Natsikap, welcome their is no rational to compare the prices of any ammunition in Pakistan as compared to any part of world, here clean drinking water and oxygen is so expensive that majority of people risk their lives by banking on what is made available to them. Your stay here will make you more practical, Cheers

  6. #6
    Supreme Member HussainAli's Avatar
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    Dear NatSikap Bro, Wellcome Online, and yes this part of the world has its own logic & prices !!!!!

    Regards
    A stitch in time saves Nine

  7. #7
    Senior Member PakistanFirst's Avatar
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    .22LR - Sorting Ammo by Weight

    I buy 22LR ammo in bulk packs (also called "bricks") of 500-550 cartridges with the aim to save money. Match and target ammo is expensive, in some cases very expensive. Even with the "cheap" ammo I buy, I want and can get better performance.

    With rim-fire ammo almost all of the variable are in the hands of the manufacturer - primer, bullet, powder, etc. If you take a 22 cartridge apart you will notice that there is very little power - about 2 grains/129 milligrams. Most of the 22LR ammo I use have bullet weights that range from 33 grains to 40 grains.

    The only practical point left for the shooter to consider is to see if there is any weight variation of the cartridges within a given pack/brick.

    I did this exercise by using a RCBS powder weight scale that can measure as little a 0.1 grain/6.5 milligrams. I put each cartridge on scale and weighed it. I put the weighted cartridges in batches that were .1 grain apart. Here are the results of my findings:

    Remington (1522) Golden Bullet 40 gr. 19 batches 1 brick
    Remington (1622) Golden Bullet 36 gr. 19 batches 1 brick
    Remington (1733) Yellow Jacket 33 gr. 35 batches 1 brick
    Winchester Xpert 22 36 grains 7 batches 2 bricks

    It is interesting to note that total cartridge weight variation of the Winchester Xpert 22 ammo in two bulk packs - only 7 batches. Of these 7 batches, one batch consisted of only one cartridge. In contrast, Remington Yellow Jackets had the most variation - 35 batches.

    If you do not know that the next cartridge you are about to fire has the same overall weight as the last one your fired, will the result on the target be the same?

    Now take the cartridges that have the same weight and see the proof on the target. You will get consistent results with cartridges that have been sorted by weight.
    Last edited by Denovo87; 22-06-2011 at 09:06 PM.

  8. #8
    Senior Moderator 12GAUGE's Avatar
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    @natsikap

    interesting suggestion. I too believe that cartridges that weigh the same would (at least in theory) perform the same too. however in my humble opinion, no two cartridges would weigh exactly the same. so there must be a weight range that should be established and any cartridge that falls within that weight range would be ok. what do you think?

    Regards.
    "The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave."
    James Burgh, Political Disquisitions, 1774

  9. #9
    Senior Member PakistanFirst's Avatar
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    As I stated in my post, I sorted my ammo in weight increment variations of 0.1 grain. Depending on your scale, you may select a diffent increment variation. Each of my "pile" of cartridges was within 0.1 grain by weight measure. If the cartridge weight was 0.1 grain more, it went in another pile. It the weight was 0.1 grains less, it went in another pile, etc.

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    Senior Member PakistanFirst's Avatar
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    22LR - High Velocity Bullet Hits Target at 20 Yards & Again at 60 Yards

    If a 22LR high velocity bullet hits the target at 20 yards and again at 60 yards - did the bullet travel in a straight line?

    The answer is no - the bullet did not travel in a straight line.

    I sight my 22LR rifle using high velocity ammo to hit my target (jackrabbits - large desert rabbits) dead center at 60 yards.

    When the bullet leaves the barrel it is 1.5" below the rifle barrel sight. At a distance of 20 yards the bullet is in line with the rifle sight. At at distance of 40 yards it has attained a height of .49" above the line of sight. From this distance onward, the bullet starts to move downward until it reaches the intended target at a distance of 60 yards. At a distance of 75 yards the bullet drops 1.24 inch. At a distance of 90 yards the bullet drops 3.1" inch.

    With my rifle sighted at 60 yards, I can aim for the jackrabbit knowing that my bullet will be no more than 1.5 inch high and no more than 1.25 inch low from the point the bullet leaves the barrel to a distance of 75 yards.

    Major rim-fire ammunition manufacturers publish bullet velocity, bullet drop and bullet energy data for various distances.
    Last edited by Denovo87; 22-06-2011 at 09:07 PM.

  11. #11
    Enthusiast ali110's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by natsikap View Post
    If a 22LR high velocity bullet hits the target at 20 yards and again at 60 yards - did the bullet travel in a straight line?

    The answer is no - the bullet did not travel in a straight line.

    I sight my 22LR rifle using high velocity ammo to hit my target (jackrabbits - large desert rabbits) dead center at 60 yards.

    When the bullet leaves the barrel it is 1.5" below the rifle barrel sight. At a distance of 20 yards the bullet is in line with the rifle sight. At at distance of 40 yards it has attained a height of .49" above the line of sight. From this distance onward, the bullet starts to move downward until it reaches the intended target at a distance of 60 yards. At a distance of 75 yards the bullet drops 1.24 inch. At a distance of 90 yards the bullet drops 3.1" inch.

    With my rifle sighted at 60 yards, I can aim for the jackrabbit knowing that my bullet will be no more than 1.5 inch high and no more than 1.25 inch low from the point the bullet leaves the barrel to a distance of 75 yards.

    Major rim-fire ammunition manufacturers publish bullet velocity, bullet drop and bullet energy data for various distances.
    I have used .22lr 40 Grain Solid and 38 Grain HP many times at diffrent range
    from 15 to 300 yards and i found it quite Accurate if u have a Good Scope Fixed on the rifle ,It is a Light weight Ammo so the wind Dirrectly effect its Accuracy and Velocity ,According many experienced Shhoters and Gunsmiths A .22 ammo start Droping at the range of 1 km

  12. #12
    the article need some more debate
    so guys carry on....
    ***************** Syed Rehmat ************

  13. #13
    Senior Member PakistanFirst's Avatar
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    Same 22LR Ammo - You Got Fantastic Results & I Got Crummy Results

    One day a friend tells you that he is getting fantastic results with 22LR ammo he just bought. In his happiness, he gives you some of his ammo to you to try it in your rifle.

    Next time you see your friend, you tell him you got crummy result with his ammo. Your friend tells you that the ammo is fantastic and that your shooting is perhaps crummy. He asks for your rifle to try on paper target with the ammo he gave you. He shoots. He looks at the paper target and feels embarrassed as the results were in fact crummy.

    Your friend invites you to try his rifle with his ammo. You shoot. You look at the paper target - fantastic results with his rifle and his ammo. You wonder why results were not similar with your rifle and his ammo.

    You also have some ammo that has given you fantastic results. You give some of your ammo to your friend to try it in his rifle. Next time he sees you, he gives you the bad news - your ammo is crummy, he says. You suspect something is wrong with the way your friend shoots. You try his rifle with the ammo you gave him. You shoot. You look at the paper target and see the crummy results.

    Now you are both left wondering.

    My best ammo may not be best for your rifle and your best ammo may not be best for my rifle.

  14. #14
    Moderator Starfish's Avatar
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    true that. What are the reasons behind it? I know there may be many but a nice little summary of "Why it happens" would be great
    Thanks.
    I dont suffer from the disillusion that CZs are the ultimate handguns.
    I enjoy every minute of it

  15. #15
    Senior Member PakistanFirst's Avatar
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    You and your friend have two different rifles.

    Assume you buy rifle brand XYZ Firearms, model Super 22 with serial number 1234. Also assume your friend also buys a rifle brand XYZ Firearms, model Super 22 with serial number 1235. The two rifles are similar - the only difference is serial numbers - according to factory one was built after the other one - but not true. With the same ammo you shoot both rifles. You friend also shoots booth rifles. You compare the target results. Very likely both of you got better results with one rifle (the same one rifle) than the other rifle.

    The variation may be due to manufacturing tolerances and the way parts move through the factory manufacturing assembly line. Just because two rifles bear consecutive serial numbers only means that the parts bearing the serial numbers were stamped one after the other one. The receivers of the rifles came from one big bin. No one knows if the receiver bearing serial 1234 was in bin at the top or bottom of the bin. Likewise same goes for receiver with serial number 1235. The rifle barrels were manufactured in a different process - totally different machines. No one knows if the barrel attached to receiver serial number 1234 was made before or after the one attached to receiver serial number 1235.

    Let us not forget that microscopic variations in cartridge chamber and the rifling (groves) in the barrel can vary the results on the target. Most 22LR rifles have a 1:16 rifling twist. This means that for ever 16 inches of bullet travel in the barrel, the bullet turns one time.

    Here is how to calculate the revolution per minute of a 22LR bullet that leaves the barrel at 1255 feet per second (high velocity 22LR): 12 (inches in one foot) / 16 (rifling twist ratio) X 1255 (velocity of bullet at the muzzle) X 60 (seconds in one minute) = 56,475 revolutions per minute. Knowing the bullet rpm, we can comprehend and respect how a slight variation in the barrel chamber/barrel rifling can have adverse impact on the target results.

    This is my "short" answer.
    Last edited by PakistanFirst; 07-04-2011 at 04:52 AM.

  16. #16
    Senior Member PakistanFirst's Avatar
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    Muzzle of Your 22LR Rifle May Have the Answer to the Accuracy About Question

    Take a close look at the muzzle end of your 22LR rifle barrel (the crown) through a magnifying glass. Is the rifling at the crown crisp and clean all around?

    For optimum accuracy, the pressure behind the bullet has to be even all around at the base of the bullet as it leaves the muzzle. Any imperfection of the crown can lead to inaccuracy as the bullet leaving the barrel may have higher/lower gas pressure on one side but not even pressure on all the surfaces at the base of the bullet. For optimum accuracy, the gas behind the bullet needs to escape evenly as it leaves the barrel.

    This simple observation may have the answer to your question about accuracy.
    Last edited by PakistanFirst; 07-04-2011 at 04:39 AM.

  17. #17
    i have used philpine made .22 bullet in my erma wreke jerman made semi auto rifle. and i notice bullet drop almost 1 foot at the distance of 450 feet

  18. #18
    Senior Member PakistanFirst's Avatar
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    sayyedain,

    What is the bullet weight and the muzzle velocity of your ammo?
    At what distance did you sight your rifle?
    Between the muzzle to the 450-foot spot, at distance was the bullet on target?

  19. #19
    Senior Member PakistanFirst's Avatar
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    Which 22LR Ammo is the Best?

    Do you ever ask yourself "which ammo is the best for my rifle"? It is assumed that the word "best" to mean the most accurate for your rifle.

    Here is the method I used to find the ammo that was the "best" for my rifle.

    I had five different kinds of 22LR ammo. I traded some of my ammo with my friends who had other kinds of ammo that I did not have. After making the ammo trades I had fifteen different kinds of ammo.

    The idea of making trades was to have a larger collection of ammo without having to go out and buy the ammo types I did not have. In trying to make the trades I explained the reason to my friends. They were happy - as they also had a bigger variety of ammo after making the trades.

    The test was simple. Target at 50 yards. Five shots for each kind of ammo. Total of 75 shot on 15 targets. The targets were compared and the winning ammo selected. My friends did the same exercise with their rifles.

    Having a larger variety of 22LR ammo gives you an opportunity to see what the other ammo will do in your rifle. You may be surprised to find that the cheaper ammo gives better results than the more expensive ones. On the other hand your rifle may have an "expensive taste" - only the expensive ammo gave the "best" results.

    No one can tell you which ammo is best for your rifle. You have to do this exercise to find the answer.
    Last edited by PakistanFirst; 08-04-2011 at 09:50 AM.

  20. #20
    Enthusiast ali110's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by natsikap View Post
    Do you ever ask yourself "which ammo is the best for my rifle"? It is assumed that the word "best" to mean the most accurate for your rifle.

    Here is the method I used to find the ammo that was the "best" for my rifle.

    I had five different kinds of 22LR ammo. I traded some of my ammo with my friends who had other kinds of ammo that I did not have. After making the ammo trades I had fifteen different kinds of ammo.

    The idea of making trades was to have a larger collection of ammo without having to go out and buy the ammo types I did not have. In trying to make the trades I explained the reason to my friends. They were happy - as they also had a bigger variety of ammo after making the trades.

    The test was simple. Target at 50 yards. Five shots for each kind of ammo. Total of 75 shot on 15 targets. The targets were compared and the winning ammo selected. My friends did the same exercise with their rifles.

    Having a larger variety of 22LR ammo gives you an opportunity to see what the other ammo will do in your rifle. You may be surprised to find that the cheaper ammo gives better results than the more expensive ones. On the other hand your rifle may have an "expensive taste" - only the expensive ammo gave the "best" results.

    No one can tell you which ammo is best for your rifle. You have to do this exercise to find the answer.
    I used to fire Win superx and win HP,federal hp, CCI Hp ,Eley and Philipines ,Winchester superx is Quite Popular in pakistan due to its performance ,i found federal and winchester quite accurate than Eley and philipines.

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