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Thread: Armscor MAPP1 VIPER ( Tanfoglio Force 99 Carry ) - Review

  1. #1

    Armscor MAPP1 VIPER ( Tanfoglio Force 99 Carry ) - Review

    Introduction:

    This pistol is assembled by Armscor Philippines, based on assembly kits imported directly from Tanfoglio Italy. Corresponding model in Tanfoglio line of pistols is the Tanfoglio Force Police/Carry. It is a cross of Carry and Police 2011 lineup. Basically it is a Tanfoglio pistol assembled under the license by Armscor in Philippines. All parts are made in Italy in Tanfoglio Factory located in Gardone Val Trompia, a small town which is famous for firearm manufacturing facilities of Beretta, Tanfoglio and Pietta.

    Price tag was PKR 48,000 only and I purchased it from National Traders in November 2010.

    DAY 1 pictures:





    Design:

    This pistol is a compact semi-auto platform, hammer fired and polymer framed, yielding Browning short action recoil operation in tilt barrel configuration. Its locking operation is similar to 1911 design where ribs formed just ahead the chamber on the barrel, lock with the projections in the ceiling of the slide.

    Tanfoglio pistols are CZ75 based design which is then based on 1911/Hi-Power design. Tanfoglios are more close to CZs as their slides ride inside the frame.

    Sights are low profiled and snag free 3-dot system. Front sight is fixed and rear sight is LPA having two Allen screws, thus windage adjustment is allowed. Barrel is hard chromed externally only.

    Recoil spring assembly is two-piece (un-captured) with a single spring and guide rod is made of steel.

    Magazines are marked (T) on them which is Tanfoglio insignia and are 16-rounders.

    Finish on the slide is Parkerized black and very smooth. Trigger is made of metal not plastic. Frame has picatinny rails for mounting accessories. Quality of machining is A-grade inside and outside nearly flawless.

    After 1st cleaning:






    Ergonomics & Safety:

    Ergonomics are just great. Grip is fantastic, safety position is natural and, the trigger is a little creepy but, light enough to be enjoyed.

    This pistol implements firing pin block safety to prevent accidental discharges. There is no decocker, safety is traditional style enabling weapon to be carried cocked and locked. Hammer can be downed by pulling trigger on a live round and lowering hammer with thumb carefully.

    I really liked this design as it is an improvisation of CZ75B design first time with polymer frame (full size, 16-round high capacity grip) with shortened slide and barrel. This attribute gives the pistol high capacity and compact size at the same time. It is rather a hybrid platform having characteristics of full frame but yet a compact pistol.

    After 1st shoot :









    Firing Experience:

    Natural pointability is so great. I tested it and here is how I tested. I let close both of my eyes and produced the pistol in my generic grip pattern thinking behind my mind that I was pointing my pistol on the enemy in a dark room. At this point, I let my eyes open and to my surprise I see all 3 white dots in 1-line automatically under my natural grip. It’s a point and shoot pistol in my opinion and that’s really great.

    One thing is very noticeable and that is, the recoil is minimal. Compared to my polymer Taurus model 809, it significantly kicks less and while it does kick, the recoil perceived is soft and tamed.

    I managed to fire 82 rounds today, with no malfunction of any kind at all. All bang bang story till the end. Good job.

    15 Meter shooting results:
    Ammo: POF 2Z
    Stance: with both hands, standing







    Specifications:

    Caliber: 9mm
    Mag. Capacity: 16 rounds
    Barrel Length: 93 mm (3.66")
    Overall Length: 190 mm (7.48")
    Weight, empty: 830 g (1.83 lbs.)
    Construction: Frame: Polymer; Slide: Nickel steel alloy


    Inquiries from Armscor:

    I inquired from Armscor customer services about some queries regarding this pistol. I received reply from their quality assurance manager Mely Cayabyab through their armorer Estanislao Rodelas, which I would quote below:

    “Barrel life expectancy is over 50.000 rounds and it has an external hard chromed finishing.
    MAPP1 can take +P ammunition.
    All pistols leaving the factory are test fired with a minimum of 32 proof rounds.
    Average accuracy is 3 inches Extreme spread at 25 yards in 5 shots.
    Accuracy is randomly checked and the sights are pre-fitted when delivered to us from Italy.
    Trigger pull single action is 4.5 lbs.
    The pistol was assembled - Aug. 28, 2009 and inspected by W. Mayuyu.
    No changes made on the pistol during the assembly process.”


    Similar Pistols:

    Below pistols are licensed distributions of Tanfoglio line of pistols under a different Marketer’s name.

    EAA Witness Polymer
    EAA Witness Polymer Carry
    Rock Island Armory (RIA) MAPP1


    Official Pages:

    Armscor MAP1 & MAPP1
    Tanfoglio Force Police
    Tanfoglio Force Carry


    Out of Battery Fire concerns in CZ based designs:

    I as a curious buddy was once checking if this pistol would fire in out of battery condition. I was surprised to see that it would drop hammer on pressing trigger even when the slide was held a little bit retracted. It was an alarming situation indeed. Did some research and wrote an email to Armscor for the same.

    YES! It is normal for a CZ design to fire/drop hammer when the slide is retracted less than .25 of an inch. In such cases the barrel is still not separated with the slide. However the barrel is in lock up but it has already moved backwards along with the slide in a connected state. This alarmed me at first but research showed it is normal.

    If a CZ or CZ based design is still dropping hammer even if the slide was retracted to .25” and up (greater than 6mm), it has trigger/sear problem which needs to be checked otherwise, it would fire out of battery.



    Regards.
    Last edited by MIdreesTaj; 07-02-2011 at 02:02 PM.
    My finger on the trigger with what's so foreign in my sights ..... Anger rise !
    We wage a war ... our nature to preserve... By any means... our enemies be gone...!
    No longer can we wait, As an enemy drains our future,As the light of a new day shines, Our anger fuels our march this dawn



  2. #2
    Member Bilal Malik's Avatar
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    A very fine purchase - play safe and enjoy.

  3. #3
    Member Extraordinaire s.cheema's Avatar
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    nice pistol and review

  4. #4
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Nice review sir, pity the Cz 75 eschews decockers. Otherwise it would have been a perfect sd/cc weapo.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S)

  5. #5
    Rookie 451F's Avatar
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    conrats very nice purchase

  6. #6
    Enthusiast Shahsjs's Avatar
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    Good looking gun and nice review bro

  7. #7
    PakGuns Elite!
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    Great review and very nice gun MIdreesTaj brother.

  8. #8
    PakGuns Elite! AK47's Avatar
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    Well, as usual gone for a longer time, than back again with a bigger bang!

    Excellent Midreestaj bro, perfectly neutral review and a great purchase, congrats!

    Have been attracted to this gun since long, it has a very sold feel in the hands, and is very fairly priced, seems like a true value-for-money deal.

    It seems, however, a bit on the higher side of the weight, with 830 grams, for a polymer compact. Looking forward to seeing more of your firing with this beauty, keep us updated.

    Regards.
    Last edited by AK47; 06-02-2011 at 09:40 AM.
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage, than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.

    "Take your time and deliberate, but when the time for action has arrived, stop thinking, and go in. "

  9. #9
    Member Extraordinaire
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    Nice detailed review . Looks quite similar to P 07 duty . How is the polymer finish ?

  10. #10
    Thank you all very much for liking the review.

    @Enigmatic Desires, CZs and CZ based other companies are producing decocker models already. However the assembly kits Armscor receives for making MAPP1 is based on traditional cocked n locked safety only. Tanfoglio lineup of same pistol ( Tanfoglio Force Carry/Police) is divided into F(frame safety - cocked and locked only) and R models(slide mounted dedocker).

    @AK47, 830 grams does seem a bit heavy for its size. It should have been around 750 grams. I will find a digital scale and weigh it on that to verify this. Pistol does hold a great value for the money.

    @Dr Zakir, Frame internals are very similar to P 07 Duty I checked. Barrel length too. But lock up is different. Mapp1/Tanfoglio applied traditional CZ lockup but CZ applied SIG style lockup for their new Duty. Polymer finish is smooth not grainy but solid.
    My finger on the trigger with what's so foreign in my sights ..... Anger rise !
    We wage a war ... our nature to preserve... By any means... our enemies be gone...!
    No longer can we wait, As an enemy drains our future,As the light of a new day shines, Our anger fuels our march this dawn



  11. #11
    Member Extraordinaire
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    Looks like viper like duty is strong alternative to GLOCK 19

  12. #12
    Super review, and great buy, congrats and play safe!
    If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (Forever) [Ayat# 93, Sura al-Nisa, Para 5]

  13. #13
    Supreme Member Topak's Avatar
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    congrats Idrees for new gun.hope it will serve the purpose.its been long to see you,will be there to check this beauty.best wishes
    La Fortune Sourit aux Audacieux

  14. #14
    looks really good,
    any one know whats the price in khi and where can we see this mean machine
    pls reply
    Better be Safe than Sorry

  15. #15
    PakGuns Expert Panel
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    Nice review. Is it 0.4" or 0.04 ".
    0.4" is nearly half the case length of a 9mm case and is very alarming.

  16. #16
    Thank you brother JawadKhanJadoon, Topak and mbkhan for your likeness. Dear Topak, you are more than welcome to visit, its been long time no see since you moved your office.

    Dear Skeeter60, thank you for the appraisal Sir.
    It is .25 (1/4) of an inch, the distance where the trigger bar disconnects in a CZ. The gun will drop hammer if the slide is retracted up to 6mm, beyond 6mm of slide travel, the trigger bar is effectively disconnected.

    I mistakenly wrote 1/4" as .40" which is actually .25". Original post edited for correction.
    My finger on the trigger with what's so foreign in my sights ..... Anger rise !
    We wage a war ... our nature to preserve... By any means... our enemies be gone...!
    No longer can we wait, As an enemy drains our future,As the light of a new day shines, Our anger fuels our march this dawn



  17. #17
    PakGuns Elite! Trigger_happy78's Avatar
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    Great review. Congrats on ur purchase bro. Its a beauty

  18. #18
    Hi Gunnerz
    I just called national Arms now its NATIONAL DEFENCE GROUP...
    the initial response is that they do not deal with individuals anymore and only deal with government and agencies.
    anyways....

    just an update
    chillz
    Better be Safe than Sorry

  19. #19
    Enthusiast Asiftt's Avatar
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    Nice gun as you explained , and most of all very nice presentation and review.
    Weapons are like money ; No one knows the meaning of enough

  20. #20
    Senior Moderator 12GAUGE's Avatar
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    AoA Everybody

    Yesterday was a public holiday and I was kinda bored. called AK47 Bhai and he immediately invited me to a cherry popping ceremony of Armscor Viper 9mm handgun. my opinion after firing a couple of rounds (target paper and water bottles) are as follows:

    What I liked:

    1. its a good looking handgun. looks very modern and stylish

    2. the grip is slim and sufficient. the grip angle is also very nice. pointability is very good.

    3. mags are of good quality. insertion is smooth and mags drop freely.

    4. sights are great

    5. handgun has a very slim profile which should greatly aid in concealing.

    6. zero malfunctions whatsoever. the gun chewed in a variety of ammo from different manufacturers.

    Things that I did not like:

    1. build quality is not impressive. the slide to frame fit is decent but one can practically feel both grinding against each other.

    2. Trigger is absolutely horrible out of the box. there is pre-travel, then over travel and then there is post travel. not to mention that it is gritty with plenty of creep

    3. the handgun feels out of balance. too much nose heavy.

    4. too much barrel play. the barrel when in lock position moves. you can easily move the barrel with you finger when the slide is fully forward on the rail. this was a major turn off. a tighter lockup ensures accuracy.

    5. the barrel is not internally hard chromed whereas from the outside it is. I wonder why?

    6. the rifling was very unimpressive. very shallow groves. I would always be more comfortable with a barrel which has deep rifling. and NO! the rifling was not polygonal

    7. recoil was sharp and snappy. not at all to my liking. there were three of us firing that handgun and everyone of them noticed higher recoil (one may call it perceived recoil if one wants to spin this information around a bit)

    8. the slimmer profile of the grip was causing discomfort in shooting the handgun. I guess smaller area touching the hand is to blame here.

    9. comparatively the handgun was getting alot of fouling. similar make and same number of rounds were fired from other guns but they were alot cleaner in the end. this one felt like it came out of a coal mine.

    10. there were no proof marks stamped on the gun anywhere. I always advise against buying handguns that are not proof marked. a manufacturer's word isnt enough in my books. there should be some third party institution to validate the results.

    11. accuracy was only marginal. unimpressive at best.

    Verdict: (In my humble opinion, your mileage may vary)

    "save your money and get something else."plenty of good handguns available in the market in this price range.

    Regards.
    "The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave."
    James Burgh, Political Disquisitions, 1774

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