Handgun Accuracy Thread

[Gilani]

INTRODUCTION

While going through posts about different handgun, I always thought that in many cases, our opinions are biased about the handguns that we own or we have used. There is nothing wrong about it; it is but natural. However, at times the whole exercise of knowing about a weapon goes for a fix when someone doesn't like a comment or view on one of his favourite handgun. This ignites a futile discussion and the biggest sufferers are less experienced members who log on to this site for knowing authentic facts about the handguns they want to buy or use. The main reason for this is that most of us do not follow an objective method of reviewing a handgun and do not quantify our opinion. Comparative data is mostly not available and in the absence of objective facts and comparative data, the review mostly takes the shape of a personal opinion.

Now how to judge a weapon objectively. I have always believed that the final test of a weapon is its firing accuracy and reliability. If a weapon cant put the bullets at intended place and is prone to stoppages or is not rugged enough to bear the field conditions, its no good a weapon no matter what the brand or price. I AM SURE ALL WOULD APPRECIATE THAT ONE SHOULD NEVER COMPROMISE ON RELIABILITY. ON ACCURACY, ONE SHOULD AGAIN NEVER COMPROMISE UNLESS IT IS INTENDED TO KEEP A CONCEAL CARRY GUN. Even while buying a CC gun, one should keep in mind that it must meet 100% reliability and bare minimum accuracy requirements. Hence this thread.

In this thread, I would request everyone to post firing results of different handguns that we own or use. However, unless there are standard parameters to quantify the results, there is no use of such an exercise. I would therefore suggest a standard method which I have been following myself to check the accuracy of various handguns. This, by no means is a comprehensive method but a quick and economical one.. Any suggestions to improve this method (while still keeping it economical) would be most welcome. MOST IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER IS THAT THIS IS THE TEST OF THE GUN AND NOT OF THE FIRER.

THE METHOD:

1. In order to minimise firer's error, handgun should preferably be fired from a bench. If a proper firing bench is not available, firer may rest his elbows on a table while himself sitting on a chair.

2. A standard target with 1 inch radius bull (10 points) 2 inch radius 9 ring, 3 inch radius 8 ring, 4 inch radius 7 ring and so on, be used for firing.

3. One round of test fire should consist of 15 bullets, 5 fired from 10 M, another 5 from 20 M and another five from 30 M. The procedure should preferably be repeated twice, ie, total of 30 bullets. Two warmer rounds should be fired from the gun before starting test fire. This will make a total of 32 bullets for one handgun.

4. Ammo should not be changed during the test. Moreover, magazine should be filled to max capacity, in order to check the performance of magazine and chances of failure to feed.

5. Aiming point should be the center of the bull and must not be changed throughout the test even if a firer can clearly note bias of bullets on a particular side. ie, no adjustments should be done throughout the test. If guns has adjustable sights, they should be zeroed before the test but during the test, sights should not be adjusted.

6. Photos be taken after each test.

7. As the number of bullets fired in one go is 15, the test will have 150 points. Add 150 points of the second test and take and average / percentage. I suggest following grading;

- Exceptionally Accurate....................95% and above
- Extremely Accurate........................90% - 94.9%
- Very Accurate.................................85% to 89.9%
- Accurate.........................................8 0% to 84.9%
- Fairly Accurate................................75% to 79.9%
- Moderately Accurate........................ 70% to 74.9%
- Average..........................................6 0% to 69.9%
- Just acceptable...............................50% to 59.9%
- Inaccurate, should preferably not be bought.......45% to 49.9%
- Junk, Dont buy it.............................44.9% and below

I always thought that the scoring system of this accuracy test should not be just based on points scored on precision shooting target. The groups formed by the pistol should also be taken into account and should be added to overall score. I have therefore tried to give values to groups formed from 10, 20 and 30 M tests. I am going to amend all the previous results and add the points scored through the groups. It was pointed out by few senior members as well that group formed by a particular handgun should also have some waitage. For standardisation sake, I will be using following values:

Group from 10 M
- 1.5 inches or less............50 points
- 1.6 to 2 inches...............45
- 2.1 to 2.5 inches............40
- 2.6 to 3 inches..............35
- 3.1 to 3.5 inches............30
- 3.6 to 4 inches...............25
- 4.1 to 4.5 inches............20
- 4.6 to 5 inches...............15
- 5.1 to 5.5 inches............10
- 5.6 to 6 inces................5
- Over 6 inches................0

Group from 20 M
- 2 inches or less............50 points
- 2.1 to 3 inches.............45
- 3.1 to 4 inches.............40
- 4.1 to 5 inches.............35
- 5.1 to 6 inches.............30
- 6.1 to 7 inches.............25
- 7.1 to 8 inches.............20
- 8.1 to 9 inches.............15
- 9.1 to 10 inches...........10
- 10.1 to 11 inces............5
- Over 11 inches..............0

Group from 30 M
- 3 inches or less............50 points
- 3.1 to 4 inches.............45
- 4.1 to 5 inches.............40
- 5.1 to 6 inches.............35
- 6.1 to 7 inches.............30
- 7.1 to 8 inches.............25
- 8.1 to 9 inches.............20
- 9.1 to 10 inches...........15
- 10.1 to 11 inches..........10
- 11.1 to 12 inces............5
- Over 12 inches..............0

8. MOST IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER IS THAT THIS IS THE TEST OF THE GUN AND NOT OF THE FIRER. So please don't try to improve the result by making adjustmet. Just fire the gun as it is, adhering to standard parameters mentioned above.

9. Post the pics in the thread and wait for the comments :D

I will start the thread by posting the test fire results of a few handguns. I am sure others would also add their pics following the standard procedure. After some time, we will have a good number of pics concerning different guns and a new user will be able to compare the results and at least have some objective input about one of the very important aspects of any handgun.

Thanks and regards

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S U M M A R Y OF R E S U L T S S O F A R : Updated on Sep 6th, 2010

I was just wondering that the size of this thread has gone quite enormous and it may be difficult for the members to go through all the pages and see the results of all handguns, when they want to draw a comparison. I have therefore summarized the performance of all handguns tested so far in this post. I have also categorized them as per their size / use. The purpose of doing this is that though all handguns are being tested using the same procedure, their accuracy results do not carry equal values in my view. For example, a score of 65% by a sub-compact gun may be far better than a score of 70% by a large frame gun. Mathematical values are good as they describe the results in tangible form but in the end, members should carry out their own analysis keeping in mind their own peculiar requirements for a handgun. Hope it helps :)


LARGE FRAME HANDGUNS

1. Taurus PT99
- Overall Score - 92.11%
- Overall Rating - EXTREMELY ACCURATE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...109121#p109121

2. CZ999 Scorpion
- Overall Score - 87.11%
- Overall Rating - VERY ACCURATE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...109106#p109106

3. Beretta 92FS Centurion
- Overall Score - 86.22%
- Overall Rating - VERY ACCURATE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...123929#p123929

4. Baikal MP446 Viking (#2)
- Overall Score - 86.00%
- Overall Rating - VERY ACCURATE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...132818#p132818

5. Taurus PT92
- Overall Score - 85.66%
- Overall Rating - VERY ACCURATE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...139942#p139942

6. Taurus 608 SS8 .357 Revolver
- Overall Score - 85.66%
- Overall Rating - VERY ACCURATE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...123876#p123876

7. Canik55 Piranha
- Overall Score - 85%
- Overall Rating - VERY ACCURATE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...136398#p136398

8. Norinco NP22 (#2)
- Overall Score - 84.33 %
- Overall Rating - ACCURATE
Hot Link: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...129326#p129326

9. Glock 17
- Overall Score - 84%
- Overall Rating - ACCURATE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...123909#p123909

10. CF98 (#2)
- Overall Score - 82.66%
- Overall Rating - ACCURATE
Hot Link: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...127044#p127044

11. Baikal MP446 Viking #3
- Overall Score - 82%
- Overall Rating - ACCURATE
Hot Link: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...136390#p136390

12. Stoeger Cougar (#1)
- Overall Score - 81.11%
- Overall Rating - ACCURATE
Hot Link: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...127049#p127049

13. Zigana F (#2)
- Overall Score - 80%
- Overall Rating - ACCURATE
Hot Link: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...160585#p160585

14. Zigana F (#1)
- Overall Score - 78.33%
- Overall Rating - FAIRLY ACCURATE
Hot Link: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...148088#p148088

15. Taurus PT 909
- Overall Score - 78%
- Overall Rating - FAIRLY ACCURATE
Hot Link: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...136380#p136380

16. Baikal MP446 Viking (#1)
- Overall Score - 77.11%
- Overall Rating - FAIRLY ACCURATE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...110902#p110902

17. CF98 (#1)
- Overall Score - 76.88%
- Overall Rating - FAIRLY ACCURATE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...109105#p109105

18. Stoeger Cougar (#2)
- Overall Score - 76.44%
- Overall Rating - FAIRLY ACCURATE
Hot Link: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...127057#p127057

19. Taurus 24/7 OSS
- Overall Score - 76.22%
- Overall Rating - FAIRLY ACCURATE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...123889#p123889

20. TT 33, Winamax
- Overall Score - 75.33%
- Overall Rating - FAIRLY ACCURATE
Hot Link: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...127051#p127051

21. Taurus 24/7 Pro
- Overall Score - 71.33%
- Overall Rating - MODERATELY ACCURATE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...122588#p122588

22. Taurus 809E
- Overall Score - 69.33%
- Overall Rating - AVERAGE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...123343#p123343

23. Beretta 92FS Local Clone
- Overall Score - 64%
- Overall Rating - AVERAGE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...112080#p112080

24. Beretta 92FS Inox (This was a very heavily used Inox in 60% condition)
- Overall Score - 63.44%
- Overall Rating - AVERAGE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...109107#p109107

25. Norinco NP22 (#1)
- Overall Score - 58 %
- Overall Rating - JUST ACCEPTABLE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...109126#p109126

26. Kanuni S
- Overall Score - 58%
- Overall Rating - JUST ACCEPTABLE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...109545#p109545

27. Walther P38
- Overall Score - 54.44%
- Overall Rating - JUST ACCEPTABLE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...109516#p109516

28. TT-36, Chinese
- Overall Score - 39.66%
- Overall Rating - JUNK
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...109522#p109522

29. Beretta 92FS Local Clone
- Overall Score - 34%
- Overall Rating - JUNK
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...109128#p109128

30. Akdal Ghost TR2
- Overall Score - 24.33
- Overall Rating - JUNK
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...112075#p112075




COMPACT HANDGUNS

1. Glock 19
- Overall Score - 77.66%
- Overall Rating - FAIRLY ACCURATE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...114230#p114230

2. Steyer M9 A-1(Test conduct in bad light conditions in a standing position, off hand)
- Overall Score - 75.66%
Overall Rating - FAIRLY ACCURATE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...118732#p118732

3. CZ75 Compact
- Overall Score - 75.33%
- Overall Rating - FAIRLY ACCURATE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...114227#p114227


SUB - COMPACT HANDGUNS

1. Makarov #2
- Overall Score - 86.66%
- Overall Rating - VERY ACCURATE
- http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtopic. … 20#p133320
2. Walther PP
- Overall Score - 76.33%
- Overall Rating - FAIRLY ACCURATE
- http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtopic. … 82#p136382
3. Makarov #1
- Overall Score - 75%
- Overall Rating - FAIRLY ACCURATE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtopic. … 84#p122584

4. Taurus PT145 (#3)
- Overall Score - 62.00%
- Overall Rating - AVERAGE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...139937#p139937

5. Taurus PT145 (#2)
- Overall Score - 62.00%
- Overall Rating - AVERAGE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtopic. … 33#p127033

6. Taurus PT145 (#1)
- Overall Score - 48.00%
- Overall Rating - JUST ACCEPTABLE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtopic. … 68#p123868


COMPETITION / MATCH HANDGUNS

1. Ruger MK III Competition
- Overall Score - 91.33%
- Overall Rating - EXTREMELY ACCURATE
- Hotlink: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtop...114228#p114228

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D I S C L A I M E R

While compiling this summary, my purpose was to make it easy for all members to compare the results of different handguns. However, seeing its final form now, I realise that it has somewhat become a result card kind of thing which speaks good of certain handgun guns and also bad of certain handguns. Please keep in mind following aspects while going through this summary...................

1. This by no means is a final result of some kind of ACCURACY COMPETITION held between these guns. Neither these tests are the perfect / most scientific tests for judging the accuracy nor this should be taken as the final performance of a particular brand of handgun.

2. I realise that the results of those handguns which I have been firing more over the years or I own are better than few other guns. This is natural. So please don't get carried away too much with the mathematics. If Handgun A is scoring 77.11 and handgun B is scoring 74.34 than it does not necessarily mean that handgun A is better. Perhaps both are of same category . If PT99 and CZ999 are on top of the list than it does not mean that these are two most accurate pistols around and are better than say Glock 17 or few other because these have scored better percentage. However, it does mean that both of them are accurate handguns and can be trusted for accuracy :)

3. Few handguns have performed really bad. This again does not mean that all specimens of this brand would perform the same way. May be the one I tested was a lemon or its sights were way out. But one thing is for sure; there is some serious problem somewhere. So please keep that handgun on your watch list and check it thoroughly before making a decision to buy it.

4. Please do also understand my limitations as a human being. I will never be able to give a standard performance every time because it is humanly not possible; only machines can do it. Accordingly, the results may slightly vary for different handguns but not too much.

5. This, by no means is a marketing campaign for a few handguns and a dumping campaign for the others. You may consult this as a reference but finally make your own decision while you are buying a handgun, keeping in mind your requirements and pocket.

6. Therefore, these tests are not a most scientifically conducted final verdict on a particular handgun, however, they do provide a tangible basis for judging one of the most important characteristic of any handgun; its accuracy.



Thanks and regards :)

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[wasifali89]

excellent way to review or even test our own guns

[Gilani]

Here is the first input; Crowd's favourite......... Norinco CF98

Firer: Gelani
Handgun: Norinco CF90
Condition: Used, 97%
Barrel: 110 MM
L x H x W: 190x135x35 mm
Weight: 760 g (with empty magazine)
Dist: 10, 20 & 30 M
Ammo: POF 2Z
Sequence: 5 shots from 10 M, 5 from 20M and 5 from 30M on the same target.
Stoppages: None out of 34 (including two warmer rounds each before each test)
Score: 221 / 300 (73.66 %)
Groups
- 10 M................1.25 inches (50/50 pts)
- 20 M................3.0 inches (45/50 pts)
- 30 M................8.5 inches (30/50 pts)
- ....................... 125/150 (83.66%)
Overall Score......... 221+125=346 / 450 (76.88%)

Accuracy Rating: FAIRLY ACCURATE




Bullets from 10 M in red circle, Bullets from 20 M in a red triangle and bullets from 30 M in a black circle.


second test conducted after 7 days. Almost the same result. Bullets from 10 M in red circle, Bullets from 20 M in a black circle and bullets from 30 M in a red triangle.


Final result, CF98 falls in FAIRLY ACCURATE rating. Please note that CF98 is very accurate at 10 M, fairly accurate at 20 M and just average at 30 M. Not a bad gun at all in this price range. Fires better than many. :)

[Gilani]

Here is another crowd favourite, CZ999 Scorpion.............

Firer: Gelani
Handgun: Zastava CZ999 Scorpion
Condition: Used, 99%
Barrel: 108 MM
L x H x W: 198 x 140 x 34
Weight: 934 g (with empty magazine)
Dist: 10, 20 & 30 M
Ammo: POF 2Z
Sequence: 5 shots from 10 M, 5 from 20M and 5 from 30M on the same target.
Stoppages: None out of 34 bullets (including two warmer rounds each before two tests)
Score: 262 / 300 (87.33 %)
Groups
- 10 M................1.5 inches (50/50 pts)
- 20 M................1.9 inches (50/50 pts)
- 30 M................7.0 inches (30/50 pts)
- ....................... 130/150 (86.66%)
Overall Score......... 262+130=392 / 300 (87.11%)


Accuracy Rating: VERY ACCURATE




Bullets from 10 M in red circle, bullets from 20 M in black circle and bullets from 30 M in blank triangle. The one with a star sign is a warmer and not counted in the test.


Almost the same result, though this part of the test was conducted after 7 days. Bullets from 10M are in red circle, 20 M in black circle and from 30 M in black triangle. The star shaped markings are two warmer rounds.



Final result, CZ999 falls in VERY ACCURATE rating. Please note that CZ 999 is very accurate till 20 M and quite accurate at 30 M as well. The groups at 10 and 20 M are amazing. CZ999 has a 108 mm barrel whereas CF98 has a 110 mm barrel, still CZ 999 is far more accurate because it is known to have a barrel made of high quality steel, good balance and is overall a very good gun.

[Gilani]

Here is a Beretta 92FS Inox ......................

Firer: Gelani
Handgun: Beretta 92FS Inox
Condition: Used, 65%
Barrel: 125 MM
L x H x W: 217 mm
Weight: 950 g (with empty magazine)
Dist: 10, 20 & 30 M
Ammo: POF 2Z
Sequence: 5 shots from 10 M, 5 from 20M and 5 from 30M on the same target.
Stoppages: None out of 30
Score: 214 / 300 (71.33 %)
Groups
- 10 M................1.7 inches (45/50 pts)
- 20 M................6.5 inches (25/50 pts)
- 30 M................10.0 inches (15/50 pts)
- ....................... 85/150 (56.66%)
Overall Score......... 214+85=299 / 450 (66.44%)
Accuracy Rating: AVERAGE






Not a good result from Beretta standards, I have been firing far better with other Berettas. This, however, is a very roughly used (rather abused) 92fs Inox. It gets 299 / 450 and falls in AVERAGE rating.

[newlook]

Gilani sir, excllent thread and way to measure accuracy of our handguns.
i will soon post results of my cougar8000. lets see where it falls after this test

[MIdreesTaj]

@Gilani Sb,

Excellent effort by you indeed. Hope to see members participate for the handgun accuracy analysis.

[Faheem]

Gilany bahi this thread is the best thread of handgun for analyzing the performance and reliablity of handguns. Through this thread we can get the technical performance of handguns before purchasing... because at the time of purchasing we cant analyse the performance of any handgun....

I am also waiting the results of Stouger Couger & Canick Pirhana. I hope you will do it for us....

[Gilani]

Thanks everybody :)

This is Taurus PT99................. see the results for yourself :)

Firer: Gelani
Handgun: Taurus PT99
Barrel: 125 MM
L x H x W: 217 mm
Weight: 950 g (with empty magazine)
Dist: 10, 20 & 30 M
Ammo: POF 2Z
Sequence: 5 shots from 10 M, 5 from 20M and 5 from 30M on the same target.
Stoppages: None out of 30
Score: 275 / 300 (91.6 %)
Groups
- 10 M................1.4 inches (50/50 pts)
- 20 M................2.2 inches (45/50 pts)
- 30 M................3.9 inches (45/50 pts)
- ....................... 140/150 (93.33%)
Overall Score......... 275+140=415 / 300 (92.11%)

Accuracy Rating: EXTREMELY ACCURATE







Test completed. Taurus PT99 gets 415 / 300 (92.11%) and falls into Extremely Accurate rating. Please note that from 10M, 9 out of 10 are in bull and from 20 & 30 M, there is not much of difference in accuracy. And look at the groups, amazing. What else one can expect from a 50K pistol???????

[Gilani]

Here is Norinco NP22.......................

Firer: Gelani
Handgun: Norinco NP22
Condition: 100 %, only around 200 bullets fired.
Barrel: 112 MM
L x H x W: 196x140x37 mm
Weight: 875 g (with empty magazine)
Dist: 10, 20 & 30 M
Ammo: POF 2Z
Sequence: 5 shots from 10 M, 5 from 20M and 5 from 30M on the same target.
Stoppages: None out of 34
Score: 203 / 300 (67.66 %)
Groups
- 10 M................2.4 inches (40/50 pts)
- 20 M................6.3 inches (25/50 pts)
- 30 M................8.4 inches (20/50 pts)
- ....................... 85/150 (56.66%)
Overall Score......... 203+85=288 / 450 (64%)

Accuracy Rating: AVERAGE


Bullets from 10M marked in red circle, from 20 M with red triangle and from 30 M in black circle.


Second part of the test conducted after 7 days. A slightly better performance but still not what I was expecting from NP22.
Bullets from 10M marked in red circle, from 20 M in black circle and from 30 M with black trianlgle.

Final result, NP22 falls in AVERAGE rating. This was a disappointment. I expected a NP22 to fire much better than this. Please note that NP22 is quite accurate up to 10 M but there is a significant drop in accuracy at 20 M and above. And you would have also noted that all handguns mentioned above are accurate up to 10 M. However, as the distance increases, the difference starts getting pronounced. I would appreciate such observations from others also because that is how we are going to learn about the actual worth of these guns :)

regards

[Gilani]

Here is a local Beretta 92Fs clone. I have posted this pic earlier also but just for the comparison sake, it is reposted here :)

Firer: Gelani
Handgun: Beretta 92FS Clone, Darra made
Barrel: 125 MM
L x H x W: 217 mm
Weight: not known
Dist: 10, 20 & 30 M
Ammo: POF 2Z
Sequence: 5 shots from 10 M, 5 from 20M and 5 from 30M on the same target.
Stoppages: 4 out of 15, 2 misfires and 2 failures to feed.
Score: 51 / 150 (34 %)
Accuracy Rating: INACCURATE



You can see the hopeless result of this clone. I have seen clones firing far better also but this one was just not worth it. If a gun fires like this, it better to keep a ghulail. At least one doesn't need a license for it and its even cheaper than a clone. :)

[Salahuddin Ayubi]

BRAVO!

Well Done Gilani Sb.

A commendable service to the whole community.

[Budha Khan]

Gilani sab!!! simply u are a brilliant

[Mangloo Ramzani]

Gilani sb, (Hats Off) an excellent thread indeed. :D

[Shariq]

Brilliant idea and great contribution. Thanks

[Sensei]

Brother Gilani its really

[Usama]

@Gilani
Nice Bro :) ..So Clones are inaccurate :|

[uzair859]

very nice reveiw

[Gilani]

Thanks everybody :)

@Gilani
Nice Bro :) ..So Clones are inaccurate :|

Usama brother, the one that I tested and which has been shown in the picture was INACCURATE :). I never said that all clones are inaccurate........... will have more on this subject later :)
regards

[Skeeter60]

Gilani keep up your good work. You are providing real and practical information on almost all the popular hand guns over here.
Kindly also mention the POF Mk 2z genuine ammo is so wonderful as you are using it in all the guns and tell us if you ever faced any problem with any gun using it. It is absolutely fine and normal for use in any Pistol or Machine Pistol.