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Thread: Yarygin PYa / MP-443 "Grach"

  1. #1
    Senior Member Mohammad's Avatar
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    few days back i went to an arms dealer to buy baikal viking mp446 for my cousin. It was priced 66000. The guy there told me that if i am not interested in the viking model, they had local Yargin grach there available with them (the steel frame model adopted by russian army). It was cheap comparable to viking. It was for 58 thousand. Reason was that viking was an export model while grach was local. I want to ask the you guys (especially 12guage who has alot experience in baikal) that is yargin grach better than the viking bcuz yargin grach can handle 7n21 +P+ russian armor piercing ammo meaning that it can sustain more hot round than viking. What do you guys say
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    Have not seen YARYGYIN around. But if I am at your place, will buy this upfront. THis is RUSSIAN ARMY SERVICE PISTOL. Also please ask if they have extra magazines for these VIKING/YARYGIN models and the what about the AUTO-SWITCHES for them. Well 7n21 +p+ is available???
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  3. #3
    Senior Moderator 12GAUGE's Avatar
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    first of all, i've read the viking manual, its the same as Grach (except polymer frame), therefore all specifications are same. the Viking is also rated safe for 7n21 which is +p++ round.

    second, same proofing marks are stamped on the Baikal's Viking and Baikal's Grach. so i dont see any difference in the two pistols, and their ability to withstand hotter rounds.

    third, 72n1 is not available in Pakistan so this feature no matter how tempting is utterly useless.

    fourth, if ur in the market for a Baikal product, then I would recommend that u buy VIKING as its much lighter than its Steel counterpart, its less prune to rust, and less copy-able buy the local handgun manufacturers.

    Regards.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Mohammad's Avatar
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    actually these are the pics of viking kabooms on handguns section. idobt know what happened but baikal viking seems to be substandard or so. Still think Grach is best because of steel frame. The question arises, if viking can sustain +p+ 9mm rounds like grach, why did it blow??
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Mohammad's Avatar
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    plus do the have supported or unsupported chamber?
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  6. #6
    Senior Moderator 12GAUGE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohammad
    actually these are the pics of viking kabooms on handguns section. idobt know what happened but baikal viking seems to be substandard or so. Still think Grach is best because of steel frame. The question arises, if viking can sustain +p+ 9mm rounds like grach, why did it blow??

    yes sir, there are kaboom pic of vikings on this forum but then again there are kaboom pictures of glocks everywhere on the internet, heck there are kaboom videos of Sig on the youtube. infact you could probably find kaboom pic/videos of almost every major brand.

    reasons could be anything from out of battery fire to cheap reloaded ammo or surplus cheap quality military ammo.

    if glock with alotta stories of kabooms is still considered the most reliable and tough polymer based pistol on the market then I guess Baikal's Viking should be in the similar league.

    Regards
    "The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave."
    James Burgh, Political Disquisitions, 1774

  7. #7
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    i heard mp 443 was not available in pakistan?

  8. #8
    Senior Member Mohammad's Avatar
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    @ 12 guage..... heck you are right.
    @dr zakir mp443 grach is available but with certain dealers and they keep it disclosed until some serious buyer comes in cause MP443 is not an export model. They, i think, smuggle it inside the country or so
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    Ok. Thanks I think I will buy one

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohammad
    @ 12 guage..... heck you are right.
    @dr zakir mp443 grach is available but with certain dealers and they keep it disclosed until some serious buyer comes in cause MP443 is not an export model. They, i think, smuggle it inside the country or so
    Well new Russian wepaons are hard to find but I have also seen the following one in LAHORE and would definetley like to have one
    http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg139-e.htm
    “Action without thought is like shooting without aim.”

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    @Zubair 723: The successor to the Stechkin, most probably PB

    @all: Can't see any major differences between the Grach and the Viking, apart from sights, trigger guard, rail.
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  12. #12
    Senior Moderator 12GAUGE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KageFox
    @Zubair 723: The successor to the Stechkin, most probably PB

    @all: Can't see any major differences between the Grach and the Viking, apart from sights, trigger guard, rail.

    here is a cutout from:
    http://www.militaryltd.com/forum/dro...al-caliber.htm

    **********************************************
    Russian armed forces have increasingly taken up the ubiquitous 9x19 mm as their standard round replacing the 9x18 mm round used by the post-war Makarov PM/PMM. The all-steel construction of the Baikal company’s PYa or Yarygin pistol carries 18 rounds and will, funding permitting, be the standard military pistol eventually replacing the Makarov according to leading designer Mikhail Dragounov.

    One area of Russian expertise has been in developing more capable ammunition such as the 7N21 9 mm armor piercing round with hardened steel core designed to be used with the PYa. However, the high cost versus the standard 9 mm may mean widespread use is limited. The Baikal plant has the historical distinction of being the largest pistol-manufacturing site in the world achieving annual output of 100,000 pistols during the Soviet era.

    Two Polymer framed variants are offered for export, the MP-446 Viking in 9x19 mm and the MP-445 Varyag in both 9x19 mm and 40 S&W. Both use a double hammer firing mechanism and propped breach-locking system.
    **********************************************

    Regards
    "The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave."
    James Burgh, Political Disquisitions, 1774

  13. #13
    Senior Member MHMalik's Avatar
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    I had the opportunity to use Zubair Sbs Baikal Viking yesterday, and was really impressed with it. I shot it for the first time and its controlability and accuracy were great!. I mean the gun made an average shooter like me look great! From the build quality it looks bombproof.. Highly recommended if you're into Russian weapons..
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  14. #14
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    a bit too big for CC but i have no doubt that its an excellent weapon!
    \"Sa viv deche des formas; ka sa maekus\"
    Knowledge flows through practice and patience - proverb

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    highly recommended in weapons between 50 to 70k

  16. #16
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    it is in my wish list

  17. #17
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Mine as well
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  18. #18
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    Apparently a very good weapon, and it possibly has the legendary Russian ruggedness...
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    “Action without thought is like shooting without aim.”

  20. #20
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    i have already fired from 12 gauges pistol and no doubt it is a good gun

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