Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 38

Thread: Need advice on First shotgun

  1. #1
    Member AMP11692's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    175

    Need advice on First shotgun

    Asalam alaikum all, hope everyone is doing well.

    As covid started, I finally decided to purchase weapons for protection. I purchased a baikal 442 Makarov for conceal carry and a saiga 223 rifle. With the sense that the firearms should be inherently reliable. Both my guns, the Makarov 250 rounds and saiga over 350 rounds have fired with 0 issues of any sort.

    Now my shotgun license has arrived and I was hoping to receive some advice from our PG community as I'm seeing lots of information about shotguns have issues due to shell deformation, lighter loads, length & low/high brass.

    My primary purpose for it is to keep under my desk at my shop after using it at the range for around 100 rounds. I'm not too keen on the pumping action but Ive read that they're the most reliable. My budget is 150K or else vepr would've been a good option albeit heavy and longer. But

    I've seen hatsan escort for 90 AR and 125 for the bullpup which seems like a fun toy and reviews aren't so bad online.
    My initial choice was saiga 12 but I've reading about many cycling, FTE issues so now I'm more confused.

    What would you gentlemen advise?

    Attachment 38870Attachment 38871Attachment 38872
    '2 of the loudest sounds: A click when you expect a bang, and a bang when you expect a click'

  2. #2
    Member Extraordinaire shahroze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Fod Street
    Posts
    3,360
    Winchester sxp ( Buksh elahi lahore )
    Saiga 12 is also fine as long as you are getting the v 30...which I reckon you won't find.
    The current saiga which are flooded in the market are not my cup of tea.
    Vepr 12 is also good albeit heavy will be around 150k+
    You would to survey Peshawar for that
    You could also try and search for a used Winchester 1300
    Your budget is just right for the shotgun.
    Keep us updated with what you find.
    Communist until you get rich; Feminist until you get married; Atheist until the airplane starts falling.

  3. #3
    Member AMP11692's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by shahroze View Post
    Winchester sxp ( Buksh elahi lahore )
    Saiga 12 is also fine as long as you are getting the v 30...which I reckon you won't find.
    The current saiga which are flooded in the market are not my cup of tea.
    Vepr 12 is also good albeit heavy will be around 150k+
    You would to survey Peshawar for that
    You could also try and search for a used Winchester 1300
    Your budget is just right for the shotgun.
    Keep us updated with what you find.
    I can only purchase from karachi, and the only vepr i can find is around 250K =(
    I am not sure which saiga 12 this is. ive attached a picture. Where can i check if its V30?
    '2 of the loudest sounds: A click when you expect a bang, and a bang when you expect a click'

  4. #4
    Member Extraordinaire shahroze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Fod Street
    Posts
    3,360
    Quote Originally Posted by AMP11692 View Post
    I can only purchase from karachi, and the only vepr i can find is around 250K =(
    I am not sure which saiga 12 this is. ive attached a picture. Where can i check if its V30?
    Karachi would be expensive...
    Saiga 12c v30 https://www.google.com/search?q=saig...Zx0JUV-fcd9BDM
    But you won't find this one.. you can try
    Communist until you get rich; Feminist until you get married; Atheist until the airplane starts falling.

  5. #5
    I think if ur buying the shottie for ur protection , reliability is more important than rate of fire , although very difficult to find , nothing is more reliable in 12 guage than a Benelli m4super 90. But being a forbidden fruit , it is super rare and expensive , the hatsan mpa is also good in the tube fed catagory but not in the league of top brands , now mag fed shoties are more ammo sensitive , and if the hd situation , u should have more magazine at ur disposal ,it is very difficult to load shotgun magazines in a stress situation compared to a tube ,. Nothing beats the vepr molot , in that catagory , however Turkish mags fed shotguns have landed in the mkt , and their good reviews about them on YouTube , namely panzer arms ar12 pro and hatsan df12 , both these models are a bit heavy as their upper (steel ), lower (aluminum) receivers and hand guards are metal no polymer , consequently their are more rugged then their polymer models , pioneer arms and saddar armoury have them in stock no idea about other shops , Allah Hafiz

  6. #6
    Member AMP11692's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by takenleader View Post
    I think if ur buying the shottie for ur protection , reliability is more important than rate of fire , although very difficult to find , nothing is more reliable in 12 guage than a Benelli m4super 90. But being a forbidden fruit , it is super rare and expensive , the hatsan mpa is also good in the tube fed catagory but not in the league of top brands , now mag fed shoties are more ammo sensitive , and if the hd situation , u should have more magazine at ur disposal ,it is very difficult to load shotgun magazines in a stress situation compared to a tube ,. Nothing beats the vepr molot , in that catagory , however Turkish mags fed shotguns have landed in the mkt , and their good reviews about them on YouTube , namely panzer arms ar12 pro and hatsan df12 , both these models are a bit heavy as their upper (steel ), lower (aluminum) receivers and hand guards are metal no polymer , consequently their are more rugged then their polymer models , pioneer arms and saddar armoury have them in stock no idea about other shops , Allah Hafiz
    Thanks for your advice. I was actually attracted to the hatsan escort bullpup shotgun, I saw panzer ar12 but the AR platform never attracted me. I've always been an AK kinda person lol.

    Thus my first choice was saiga but the reviews really dissuaded me.
    Would you say the panzer AR is better than saiga?
    '2 of the loudest sounds: A click when you expect a bang, and a bang when you expect a click'

  7. #7
    Member Extraordinaire FA226's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Planet Earth
    Posts
    4,233
    Quote Originally Posted by AMP11692 View Post
    I can only purchase from karachi, and the only vepr i can find is around 250K =(
    I am not sure which saiga 12 this is. ive attached a picture. Where can i check if its V30?
    i can't open your attached file but i shared the link of my old post so you can see saiga 12 version 30.
    http://www.pakguns.com/showthread.ph...Exp-01-ver-030

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by AMP11692 View Post
    Thanks for your advice. I was actually attracted to the hatsan escort bullpup shotgun, I saw panzer ar12 but the AR platform never attracted me. I've always been an AK kinda person lol.

    Thus my first choice was saiga but the reviews really dissuaded me.
    Would you say the panzer AR is better than saiga?
    The panzer can never be better than a well tuned saiga or a vepr molot , but these turk are really churning out some very nice affordable weapons , canik tp9::: is a good example , their are 2 , models of panzer , go for the pro model all metal , how ever hatsan is a premium brand amoung Turkish shotguns , the hatsan df12 comes with a lot of kit and kaboodle , hence their is a price difference too , do some research before making a decision , if a panzer proves to be a handful , u can always spend the amount saved on it purchase to buy extra 10 round mags , rest is ur decision, I am also an AK platform fan , but these are style shotguns only resemble the AR in shape , their action / operation is completely bespoke . Their is a Turkish clone (kral xps)of saiga 12 , if u can fing one in Karachi , they are available everywhere one peshwar, 2 models one is kral xps and the other one is kral xps tactical, reportedly it can use saiga magazines
    Last edited by takenleader; 10-07-2021 at 08:03 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by AMP11692 View Post
    Thanks for your advice. I was actually attracted to the hatsan escort bullpup shotgun, I saw panzer ar12 but the AR platform never attracted me. I've always been an AK kinda person lol.

    Thus my first choice was saiga but the reviews really dissuaded me.
    Would you say the panzer AR is better than saiga?
    The panzer can never be better than the saiga , but these turk are really churning out some very nice affordable weapons , canik t9 is a good example , their are 2 , models of panzer , go for the pro model all metal , how ever hatsan is a premium brand amoung Turkish shotguns , the hatsan df12 comes with a lot of kit and kaboodle , hence their is a price difference too , do some research before making a decision , if a panzer proves to be a handful , u can always spend the amount saved on it purchase to buy extra 10 round mags , rest is ur decision

  10. #10
    Member AMP11692's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    175
    How would be this CONFIG of vepr. Without the sight ofc. Comes with 2 mags

    [IMG] AName:  IMG-20210716-WA0007.jpg
Views: 182
Size:  55.7 KB[IMG]
    '2 of the loudest sounds: A click when you expect a bang, and a bang when you expect a click'

  11. #11
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    18,089
    Quote Originally Posted by AMP11692 View Post
    How would be this CONFIG of vepr. Without the sight ofc. Comes with 2 mags

    [IMG] AName:  IMG-20210716-WA0007.jpg
Views: 182
Size:  55.7 KB[IMG]
    ste
    Sir. This weapon comes with an adjustable piston system. She bleeds as much gas as required the round. You cant get a better combat shotgun IMHO. However, it was 245k or so a few months back when I was last in peshawar. Apart from this one and the Sagia (on high brass settings and with high brass loads only) I cannot in good faith recommend any other semi auto.

    I have tried two Hatsun MPAs One belonging to fellow member Tatur1 and the other one belonging to Textile Doc. I saw both of them give issues in feeding and FTEs. I myself purchased a Turk Mavoric box mag shotgun. It gave me a lot of issues.

    My home defense shottie is now a Megtech 586 pump action with 3 inch magnum full steel chamber. I have to pump it, but I know for a fact that it will go bang every time. I can't say the same for my Mavoric Turk.

    Only reliable Turk semi auto box fed shottie I have ever seen is the BR 99. I helped fellow member Eddie buy it and he was so delighted he got two. Buck shot, bird shot, slugs. It ate everything and in the same magazine without missing a beat. It should be around 120k or so. "if" available. which is a very big "if"
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  12. #12
    Member Extraordinaire shahroze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Fod Street
    Posts
    3,360
    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Desires View Post
    ste
    Sir. This weapon comes with an adjustable piston system. Apart from this one and the Sagia (on high brass settings and with high brass loads only) I cannot in good faith recommend any other semi auto.
    You mean auto piston system, & the Saiga v30 also has the auto piston/gas puck. and lighter than the vepr with the last round bolt hold open just like the vepr. And the rail on top is aluminum not plastic
    Last edited by shahroze; 17-07-2021 at 01:51 AM.
    Communist until you get rich; Feminist until you get married; Atheist until the airplane starts falling.

  13. #13
    Member Extraordinaire shahroze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Fod Street
    Posts
    3,360
    Quote Originally Posted by AMP11692 View Post
    How would be this CONFIG of vepr. Without the sight ofc. Comes with 2 mags

    [IMG] AName:  IMG-20210716-WA0007.jpg
Views: 182
Size:  55.7 KB[IMG]
    Can't go wrong with this one.
    you might not believe it but some vepr's have known to have cycling issues when mounted with an optic.... otherwise its a beast.
    Communist until you get rich; Feminist until you get married; Atheist until the airplane starts falling.

  14. #14
    Member AMP11692's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Desires View Post
    ste
    Sir. This weapon comes with an adjustable piston system. She bleeds as much gas as required the round. You cant get a better combat shotgun IMHO. However, it was 245k or so a few months back when I was last in peshawar. Apart from this one and the Sagia (on high brass settings and with high brass loads only) I cannot in good faith recommend any other semi auto.

    I have tried two Hatsun MPAs One belonging to fellow member Tatur1 and the other one belonging to Textile Doc. I saw both of them give issues in feeding and FTEs. I myself purchased a Turk Mavoric box mag shotgun. It gave me a lot of issues.

    My home defense shottie is now a Megtech 586 pump action with 3 inch magnum full steel chamber. I have to pump it, but I know for a fact that it will go bang every time. I can't say the same for my Mavoric Turk.

    Only reliable Turk semi auto box fed shottie I have ever seen is the BR 99. I helped fellow member Eddie buy it and he was so delighted he got two. Buck shot, bird shot, slugs. It ate everything and in the same magazine without missing a beat. It should be around 120k or so. "if" available. which is a very big "if"
    I am getting this in karachi for around 240, in sha Allah will get it soon. Hopefully any issues would disappear after 100 rounds at the range. This is well above my budget but I will sell a couple things because I wanna keep these weapons for life.
    '2 of the loudest sounds: A click when you expect a bang, and a bang when you expect a click'

  15. #15
    Member AMP11692's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by shahroze View Post
    Can't go wrong with this one.
    you might not believe it but some vepr's have known to have cycling issues when mounted with an optic.... otherwise its a beast.
    Hmm I'm probably only going to out a foregrip and light on it. Hopefully any issues will get resolved during break in period.
    '2 of the loudest sounds: A click when you expect a bang, and a bang when you expect a click'

  16. #16
    Member Extraordinaire FA226's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Planet Earth
    Posts
    4,233
    Quote Originally Posted by AMP11692 View Post
    I am getting this in karachi for around 240, in sha Allah will get it soon. Hopefully any issues would disappear after 100 rounds at the range. This is well above my budget but I will sell a couple things because I wanna keep these weapons for life.
    in Peshawar its price dropped from 230 to 190 k so you should be available to get it in Karachi for 240 i think.

  17. #17
    Member AMP11692's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    175
    So upon much waiting for vepr, dealer sent me these pics of whats available. Saying they're vepr


    Name:  IMG-20210728-WA0019.jpg
Views: 152
Size:  53.9 KBName:  IMG-20210728-WA0018.jpg
Views: 154
Size:  49.5 KB
    '2 of the loudest sounds: A click when you expect a bang, and a bang when you expect a click'

  18. #18
    Member Extraordinaire FA226's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Planet Earth
    Posts
    4,233
    Quote Originally Posted by AMP11692 View Post
    So upon much waiting for vepr, dealer sent me these pics of whats available. Saying they're vepr


    Name:  IMG-20210728-WA0019.jpg
Views: 152
Size:  53.9 KBName:  IMG-20210728-WA0018.jpg
Views: 154
Size:  49.5 KB
    These are saiga.whats the asking price.

  19. #19
    Member Extraordinaire shahroze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Fod Street
    Posts
    3,360
    Like FA226 said these are Saiga.
    Could you also ask about extra mag price. Also FA226 if you could point me in the direction of Extra mag, I'll be grateful
    If I were you I'd get the second one.
    Communist until you get rich; Feminist until you get married; Atheist until the airplane starts falling.

  20. #20
    Member AMP11692's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by shahroze View Post
    Like FA226 said these are Saiga.
    Could you also ask about extra mag price. Also FA226 if you could point me in the direction of Extra mag, I'll be grateful
    If I were you I'd get the second one.
    Will update with prices soon.
    These are the Saiga 12c V30 right?
    Any reaosn why the 2nd one, the only difference I can see is the stock.
    '2 of the loudest sounds: A click when you expect a bang, and a bang when you expect a click'

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •