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Thread: The Ideal CC affordable Sub-Com HG In Pakistan

  1. #1

    The Ideal CC affordable Sub-Com HG In Pakistan

    The Ideal Concealed carry affordable Sub-Compact handgun chambered In Pakistan just does not exist. (Its a myth)
    Since ages we are using imported weapons, (as pakistani's)
    and this last import ban has just taken away the right from a common man to carry one.
    (Even these Chinese which people did not even prefer to lift from the shelf due to unappealing designs and poor quality) are being traded as gold these days.

    Heads off too few of our local manufacturers like bnb for such an amazing (Tokarev) and i have also read about daudsons (Nine and True-shot). But both are not made to serve the purpose of CC in SD.
    I have few questions below; I would want some of the some senior members to share their views about it.

    Q1. Why we have such pathetic quality of handguns, why canít someone come, in this industry as an entrepreneur with automatic CNC machines and advance metallurgy understanding and revolutionized our gun industry? Why this need is not being capitalized by any of our investors in gun manufacturing?

    Q2. Is there any,

    1. any reliable
    2. 9mm
    3. affordable (10-30k / other words local).
    4. Sub-Compact (Ease of carry) handgun

    like a 9mm ruger revolver, or a glock or a shield which purpose is just to get 2 effective shots down the range when required?

    Or this is just a mythical gun?

    Regads,

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Osama Hafeez View Post
    The Ideal Concealed carry affordable Sub-Compact handgun chambered In Pakistan just does not exist. (Its a myth)
    Since ages we are using imported weapons, (as pakistani's)
    and this last import ban has just taken away the right from a common man to carry one.
    (Even these Chinese which people did not even prefer to lift from the shelf due to unappealing designs and poor quality) are being traded as gold these days.

    Heads off too few of our local manufacturers like bnb for such an amazing (Tokarev) and i have also read about daudsons (Nine and True-shot). But both are not made to serve the purpose of CC in SD.
    I have few questions below; I would want some of the some senior members to share their views about it.

    Q1. Why we have such pathetic quality of handguns, why canít someone come, in this industry as an entrepreneur with automatic CNC machines and advance metallurgy understanding and revolutionized our gun industry? Why this need is not being capitalized by any of our investors in gun manufacturing?

    Q2. Is there any,

    1. any reliable
    2. 9mm
    3. affordable (10-30k / other words local).
    4. Sub-Compact (Ease of carry) handgun

    like a 9mm ruger revolver, or a glock or a shield which purpose is just to get 2 effective shots down the range when required?

    Or this is just a mythical gun?

    Regads,
    You just wrote what's been floating on every one's mind for a while I guess. I can truly understand your frustration as we are all in the same shoes these days, but I am glade atleast some one has highlighted the issue so together we can think of the solutions. My 2 cents contribution from what I have researched during last year or so now in that above mentioned budget the only sub compact for CC would be a locally produced G26, many factories are manufacturing it on zkohat road Peshawar prices between 25-40k but who is genuinely reliable Allah knows as they all claim to be the most reliable one out of all when asked the question, however so far the feedback about Haji Insaf Shah glocks have not been bad but I have not tried it yet. Daudsons also do a DSA Trueshot 9mm SC at around Rs, 49.5K, but again no feedback yet. I must say and I bet the local manufacturers are loving this whole import ban idea and are certaunly making the most of it but sadly I still feel we are not getting the value for money yet as the prices do not reflect the quality and reliability or simply too high for low quality products.

  3. #3
    Problem is that the low-quality, unreliable firearm, which fails - at the moment in need - can not bring any good.
    in my point of view such a firearm (eg. Local options these days) is just a 50k polymer toy, which has high probability to restructure your face.

    However the question still remains - ( Do we have any good option - that is not know by the masses and prices so hiked up like the Chinese one) and we can take opportunity, I still remember few years back these Chinese CF, and NP were in the market for 15-35k USED and NIB.?

  4. #4
    I really wish a local manufacturer comes up with a reliable and affordable gun in 9mm category.

  5. #5
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Last few range sessions were undertaken with the express intention of figuring out the better locals.

    Bnb TT
    I have been carrying my Bnb TT with full confidence without even taking her to the range so suprenely confident i have become of their products and have also recommended it to a lot of people . Big mistake. Very big mistake. one that might have gotten me killed If God forbid i had to use it.

    Ftf (failure to fire issues) At fist I thought it was because of the local ammo. But when she refused to fire even China red box. Pfft. Guess I will have to have the firing pin changed.

    Review

    No Review because she don't shoot.


    DSA Trushot

    The Good Deathrow reviewed the good 35's TrueShot at the range. I made a video. we were all excited . Took her apart checked and took pics of her internals. All first rate stuff.

    Review

    At 25 yards she shot to the right.. So much so that many rounds did not even touch the paper. I had reviewed it a few months back and I thought I was just a bad shooter so kept quiet. now I know that Deathrow is anything but a bad shooter.. This behavior we could not figure out. So tried her out at 10 yards.. Again to the right. Way to the right.. But at least the rounds were on paper. I really did not have the heart to take pics. Maybe the good Deathrow or the good genius maniac who took pics would be interested in sharing them.

    Conclusion


    Contrary to popular opinion, 9mm is 'NOT' the end of the world. I have long since shifted to .32 acp and .32 snw long for CC purposes. Saw a Hungarian FEG: Walther PPK (of james bond 007 fame) clone at DAAD Zamazama street karachi for 35k Negotiable in .32 acp. I have seen blowback fixed barrel Spanish Stars for 25 to 55k in the same calibre. (i own and carry one as well)

    These guns are tough and reliable and they work. We have sourced .32 acp sellior and balliot ammo for 150 a pop negotiable (Star Traders Farooq bhai) and China 80 a pop Huffaz Traders Rafay Bhai (both at main Lucky Star karachi) Heck you can also get get a cz 83 in decent condition under 100k and that is a cz with a 16 round cap. Hollow point ammo is available for 250 a pop Both Italian Fiocchi and Serbian. (TNT arms Lucy star karachi)

    Best of all they are very sweet, accurate and reliable shooters.

    Then there are the German wheel guns (Fellow member Virus bought a German Arminius HW 3 pocket gun 7 shot wheel gun in .32 snw long in very good condition with transfer bar safety for 18k from DAAD Zamzama). Ammo price is the same as 9mm China 200 a pop (Sellior and balliot Flat tip). And if you look around old German DAG ammo is also available for 100 to 150 a pop. ( have one of those as well and its also my carry piece)

    Heck, I know that 3 actual honest to goodness Walther PPK .32 acp pistols have reached Karachi and I have personally seen one. (Guided the brand new owner towards the best ammo for the weapon.) Another one is almost nib and available at Tactical Arms Tariq road.


    Point being: First me and than death row and one by one many of us have shifted to other calibers since 9mm is unaffordable. Find the right gun and ammo combo and practice with it and you are good to go.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  6. #6
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Given a choice between a local Glock 26 offering and a European full metal weapon I would prefer the latter over the former any day of the week and twice on Sundays. I own carry and shoot my NP 42 9mm a lot. And shoot it decently enough. But, that does not mean I would refuse to take a look at what is available out there for cc purposes.
    I know of at least one local Glock 26 that blew up here in Karachi. And since I kinda like my face the way the good Lord designed it. I will stay away from it.

    If i want to cc a small gun I would rather do my Spanish star in . 32 acp than a local.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  7. #7
    Thankyou ED so much for your comments. Surely are very enlightening.


    Very well explained.
    The idea is to find out what options does the mango man has TODAY
    Considering if he needs to carry something(affordable) for protection after taking an adequate training at the range for personal and family safety.


    Eliminating the below factors.
    NEW or OLD: old will fire the same as new. a gun with less ware will be absolutely fine .
    HUGE MAG CAPASITY: no need for 14-15 rounds, 6 rounds or less is more than enough.As we all know, 2 or more than enough to get someone down.
    LOOKS: it should be a working mechanism, CC looks does not matter at all.


    Considering below:
    Confertable to carry.( small compact )
    Reliable ( life depends on it/ after you draw).


    I also dropped an email to you regarding the licence .

  8. #8
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Well. I went and got a .303 model of 1943. Used it with ammo dated 1943 as well. Worked fine. I am not constrained by 9mm as my whole and sole choice of cc weaponry. A decent .32 acp pistol or .32 snw long revolver can be purchased from 20-25k all the way to 150k or so.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

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    I agree with ED Bhai after frequent visit of Khi's market.

  10. #10
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    As of today, Turk 9mm pistol prices just went up by 50k.. Last week most Turks were retailing at 200k. This week it is 250k
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Desires View Post
    As of today, Turk 9mm pistol prices just went up by 50k.. Last week most Turks were retailing at 200k. This week it is 250k
    Locals manu should introduce some thing better now.. who has the best equipped factory when it comes to local manufacturing ?

  12. #12
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osama Hafeez View Post
    Locals manu should introduce some thing better now.. who has the best equipped factory when it comes to local manufacturing ?
    I visited their factories in Peshawar along with fellow member Virus. Its not a question of good machines so much as will. Royal Arms company has the best machinery.. But they also have the very worst work ethics. And a rather nasty habit of taking an advance and disappearing for good. Now i will have to go back to Peshawar to at least get my money back.

    In terms of quality control and ethics combined the very best is DSA. Wonderful people. And the only indigenous design to come out of Pakistan in over 70 years. However, I gave my review on this thread based on multiple range tests.

    For .30. Local Badar and Brother TT 33 is the very best. I found out from a Gora on this very forum that he had purchased it in the US. Its an export model. Unfortunately, mine never really fired regardless of the ammo I used.

    Once upon a time i bought a pump action shotgun .. The best company in those days was KAC (Khyber Arms Company) They had a great website 'state of the art'. .Gave marketing collateral to their nationwide distributors. their weapons looked good.

    I took the pump action shotgun home.. I pumped it a few times.. It fell apart..

    As in pieces flying all over the place.Imagine what would have happened had I actually placed a live shell and fired it at the range.. I have a review here somewhere.

    I once bought a Moonstar Voltro shotgun. Semi auto box mag. It shot fine. For all of 6 or 7 rounds. First the extractor went than the firing pin.

    I tried and got a .223 permit back when they were first introduced in Karachi. Bought it without paying anything.. It took me 2 months to get that permit .. Two months of going and sitting at the home department sindh (The thread is there in the license section) . But I got the permit

    Bought a local .223 rifle in AK shape .. 51k. I shot it. We all shot it. Worked fine. Only the bullets tumbled and keyholed. We tried benching it at 5 yards.. Still could not hit the paper. Not even at 5 yards!. This is a rifle we are talking about!

    And it took NATO green tips. And for every shot we fired.. it made 3 holes in the paper. Penetration tests were 30 pages at most in a telephone directory. It separated the copper, brass and steel penetrators and simply spat them out. It was a glorified paper wight. Come to think of it. Most of em are glorified paper wights.

    P.S these are not the only locals i have owned and shot. I can write a whole book on em.

    P.P.S You want a gun. A real gun . .That shoots straight .. and is reliable and durable. Forget local. The NP 22 is 125k and the NP 42 is 140k at Elahi Bux (Last week) or switch calibres and go for a .32 acp or anything else. Thanks to fellow member the good zero.. We have scored some geleten and we will be conducting penetration tests hopefully this sunday at the range.. For .32 acp and other ammo brands. Since the FBI also uses geleten. I think we are good to go.

    P.P.P.S The other day, we went to HM Traders at main Lucky Star. They had some really really nice looking Berretas for 35k. So good in fact that I at least could not differentiate em from the real deal. Best of all they were pretty heavy. This way, you can at least throw them a the BG with absolute reliability! (Just need to practice your throwing aim a bit)
    Last edited by Enigmatic Desires; 27-12-2019 at 10:09 AM.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Desires View Post
    I visited their factories in Peshawar along with fellow member Virus. Its not a question of good machines so much as will. Royal Arms company has the best machinery.. But they also have the very worst work ethics. And a rather nasty habit of taking an advance and disappearing for good. Now i will have to go back to Peshawar to at least get my money back.

    In terms of quality control and ethics combined the very best is DSA. Wonderful people. And the only indigenous design to come out of Pakistan in over 70 years. However, I gave my review on this thread based on multiple range tests.

    For .30. Local Badar and Brother TT 33 is the very best. I found out from a Gora on this very forum that he had purchased it in the US. Its an export model. Unfortunately, mine never really fired regardless of the ammo I used.

    Once upon a time i bought a pump action shotgun .. The best company in those days was KAC (Khyber Arms Company) They had a great website 'state of the art'. .Gave marketing collateral to their nationwide distributors. their weapons looked good.

    I took the pump action shotgun home.. I pumped it a few times.. It fell apart..

    As in pieces flying all over the place.Imagine what would have happened had I actually placed a live shell and fired it at the range.. I have a review here somewhere.

    I once bought a Moonstar Voltro shotgun. Semi auto box mag. It shot fine. For all of 6 or 7 rounds. First the extractor went than the firing pin.

    I tried and got a .223 permit back when they were first introduced in Karachi. Bought it without paying anything.. It took me 2 months to get that permit .. Two months of going and sitting at the home department sindh (The thread is there in the license section) . But I got the permit

    Bought a local .223 rifle in AK shape .. 51k. I shot it. We all shot it. Worked fine. Only the bullets tumbled and keyholed. We tried benching it at 5 yards.. Still could not hit the paper. Not even at 5 yards!. This is a rifle we are talking about!

    And it took NATO green tips. And for every shot we fired.. it made 3 holes in the paper. Penetration tests were 30 pages at most in a telephone directory. It separated the copper, brass and steel penetrators and simply spat them out. It was a glorified paper wight. Come to think of it. Most of em are glorified paper wights.

    P.S these are not the only locals i have owned and shot. I can write a whole book on em.

    P.P.S You want a gun. A real gun . .That shoots straight .. and is reliable and durable. Forget local. The NP 22 is 125k and the NP 42 is 140k at Elahi Bux (Last week) or switch calibres and go for a .32 acp or anything else. Thanks to fellow member the good zero.. We have scored some geleten and we will be conducting penetration tests hopefully this sunday at the range.. For .32 acp and other ammo brands. Since the FBI also uses geleten. I think we are good to go.

    P.P.P.S The other day, we went to HM Traders at main Lucky Star. They had some really really nice looking Berretas for 35k. So good in fact that I at least could not differentiate em from the real deal. Best of all they were pretty heavy. This way, you can at least throw them a the BG with absolute reliability! (Just need to practice your throwing aim a bit)

    Hence this thread is Concluded:

    1. The Ideal Concealed carry Sub-Compact handgun chambered In 9mm in Pakistan is something which is not at all affordable for the masses.
    2. Pakistani gun industry has failed to produce a single reliable gun in the history of past 73 years. (and unfortunately we can not blame manufacturers for that - our uneducated nation has never understood that a firearm is a safety tool.) - Still its more about looks, rittas and plocks.
    3. When it comes to personal safety - the least (monetarily) you can rely on, are the Chinese one. A BIG NO NO TO MADE IN PAKISTAN GUNS.

    Thankyou all the senior member for all the information, also if any one of you, selling your reliable firearm, or going for an upgrade keep me informed. i think used with a member will be much cheaper than getting sliced by a dealer. osamahafeez@hotmail.com.



  14. #14
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    I am looking for someone to try that HM Traders wali berreta (or Perreta for lack of another word) it looks very good. If someone has a spare license and plenty of imported guns. (For science.. ) Meanwhile we will be heading to lucky star in a little while to stock up on .32 acp ammo and test in the geleten and compare it with POF 9mm
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Desires View Post
    I am looking for someone to try that HM Traders wali berreta (or Perreta for lack of another word) it looks very good. If someone has a spare license and plenty of imported guns. (For science.. ) Meanwhile we will be heading to lucky star in a little while to stock up on .32 acp ammo and test in the geleten and compare it with POF 9mm
    So whats the market report ?
    Any update with the range rest on .32 on [COLOR=var(--ytd-video-primary-info-renderer-title-color, var(--yt-spec-text-primary))]Ballistic Gel[/COLOR]

  16. #16
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Yessss.. Me and the good deathrow, the good Zero (Who made the geleten) and the good Pirate.. Made lots of videos. Serbian HP does not expend.. Zilch.. De nada.. But it goes through 16 inches of geleten!

    SnB goes through 18 inches and comes out on the other side.

    The POF 1 z 9mm also goes through and through

    The Fiocci expends into a perfect flower and stops at 6 inches. The way any decent and honest hollow point (HP) should. These are very good self defense loads, if the shooter does not miss. And due to thier sweet recoil, we now now that it is easier to hit a target with it than with it. Especially since most .32 are fixed barrel simple blow-back designs. Easy to open and clean and easy to shoot and accurate as well. At least at 10 15 yards.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  17. #17
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    As regards the market report. The star .32 acp at Star Armoury that was 25k is now 28k. A 10 percent increase in accross the board prices in everything in the last week.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  18. #18
    Do you have Turkish Sarsilmaz pistols in Pakistan? They are excellent pistols and very wallet-friendly here in the US. I have a B6P and am thinking about getting a Compact version. They also make some excellent striker-fired guns.



    Still hoping to get a POF Tokarev/30 Bore inerted round or fired case!

  19. #19
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyc View Post
    Do you have Turkish Sarsilmaz pistols in Pakistan? They are excellent pistols and very wallet-friendly here in the US. I have a B6P and am thinking about getting a Compact version. They also make some excellent striker-fired guns.



    Still hoping to get a POF Tokarev/30 Bore inerted round or fired case!
    The B6 is the standard side arm of the Pakistani Law enforcement agencies. It is also used by the armed forces. They were available to civilians as well at highly affordable rates at POF outlets all over the country. But POF ended the contract and now even used pieces are hovering around $1000
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Desires View Post
    Yessss.. Me and the good deathrow, the good Zero (Who made the geleten) and the good Pirate.. Made lots of videos. Serbian HP does not expend.. Zilch.. De nada.. But it goes through 16 inches of geleten!

    SnB goes through 18 inches and comes out on the other side.

    The POF 1 z 9mm also goes through and through

    The Fiocci expends into a perfect flower and stops at 6 inches. The way any decent and honest hollow point (HP) should. These are very good self defense loads, if the shooter does not miss. And due to thier sweet recoil, we now now that it is easier to hit a target with it than with it. Especially since most .32 are fixed barrel simple blow-back designs. Easy to open and clean and easy to shoot and accurate as well. At least at 10 15 yards.
    Very Excited to see the results. Please share videos with us - specially me, my whatsapp number is country code Bahrain followed by 3723996 seven .

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