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Thread: Testing Trushot as Dr Gilani's HD Weapon

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    Expert Member Jibz's Avatar
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    Testing Trushot as Dr Gilani's HD Weapon

    For quite some time, besides his trusted CZ 75 P-01, Dr. Gilani had been on a lookout for another sidearm, with primary purpose of being kept at home for HD. In his quest, I am sure he discussed several options with other members of the forum including myself and thus one fine morning we set off on a mission to look for handguns, particularly an SP-01. I wouldn’t bore you with the details of what happened during this venture, however on our way back he mentioned that he had had some discussions with Mr. Noor-ud-Din of DSA regarding carrying out some test on their new handgun, 9x19 Trushot. I pointed out to Dr. sb that we should check out this handgun and in my books, if it clears 300 rounds test, it’s good to go as a budget handgun for HD. The ammo suggested by me was Chinese (Red Box) for the reason that its inexpensive; trustworthy dealers have more probability of having the original Chinese and not the local reloads; they generate more residue and would be an excellent litmus test for any resultant FTF/FTE. The decision was made that Gilani sb would request the concerned at DSA to provide one of their handguns for our test and if cleared, Dr sb would go for it. Now I need to point it out here that we were not exactly planning to do a review of Trushot as such rather the intention was (and for me it still is) that we should check if Trushot can land as a budget gun for Dr Gilani with primary purpose of HD.

    PG Member’s in Action:
    The day was not far, when Dr Gilani called me and stated that 300+ rounds have been procured and now the ball was in my court to reserve the range. I was utterly unsuccessful in this ONLY task assigned to me and could not do the same. Then came to our rescue Mr. Noor-ud-Din of DSA after Gilani sb presented him the possibility of carrying out this test at DSA’s facility and hurrah we were back in the game.
    Colt1911, Ameer, Ka_Khan and Aquarius sir were informed at the eleventh hour, yes it was literally 11:00 pm, and to our dismay only brother Colt1911 could make it and the rest had to excuse themselves due to their other commitments; well next time, InshAllah. Interestingly, Nazim Sahib and Fraz had already scheduled their plan to come to Peshawar on the very day when we were testing Trushot. I informed them to come to DSA facility for testing the Trushot as it will be an excellent opportunity for them to Ganga-ay-ho-to-nahaty-hi-chalo. lol

    Some pictures at the range:











    Basic FTE and FTF Test:
    At 10:15am we were at DSA and almost a dozen of their support staff was already present at their testing range to extend all possible support to us, for which we are thoroughly grateful to them. Nazim Sb and Fraz joined us somewhere around 10:30am.
    I was the first one to go and in a jiffy 3 mags of 15 rounds each had been fired without a single hiccup; No FTF/FTE. We checked the temperature of the barrel with the laser fitted temperature gauge and it was 83F/ 28C. Within next minute or so I had fired another 3 mags making a total of 90 rounds and checked the temperature yet again using the same device; it was still at 83F/ 28C.
    After the first 90 rounds we had a small tea break and soon after that it was Dr sb’s turn to had his way with the Trushot (I hope this didn’t come out the way I didn’t intend it to.. hahhaha). Dr Gilani also shot 3 mags 15 rounds each. Temperature of the barrel was checked and it had soared up to 93F/ 33C. I need to mention it for the record that while firing the 3rd clip, the handgun didn’t fire its last (15th) round. I guess that was because the magazine was not properly tapped while insertion and thus the round didn’t chamber. The clip was not properly seated in its place and the round didn’t feed in the chamber with the forward movement of the slide. After a solid tap on the magazine, the slide was racked by Dr sb and the game was on. The temperature of the barrel was checked and was found to be 105F/ 40C. The next two magazines went flawless and interestingly in the 6th clip, the 13th round didn’t feed for the same reasons mentioned above. (For every magazine fed firearm, it is a must that the clip is properly seated in its place and thus requires a firm tap for insertion). Each time Dr Gilani gave the magazine a firm tap, the round chambered without any issue. At this stage we had fired 180 rounds. Despite the fact that some of our readers must be thinking that the above mentioned case was of FT-Feed; we are of the opinion that it was a simple case of improper magazine insertion which happens to most of the firearms if the clip is not firmly tapped. Here, we want to emphasize on the fact that the issues faced with the chambering were isolated events faced by only one shooter at the range, and as the rest of the gang didn’t come across this problem, the issue has nothing to do with the handgun itself.
    Fraz, Colt1911 and Nazim Sb were next in line and each one of them fired a total of 2 magazines of 15 rounds each. They all went flawless without any FTF and FTE. We had fired a total of 270 rounds in almost 1.5 hour or so (including tea break and our usual chit chat during several breaks). We were constantly checking the temperatures of the barrel and it was noticed that when we were nearing our 300 rounds mark, it had went up to 121F/49C with 131F/ 55C as its last noted temperature. Dr. Gilani sir fired another 2 mags, reaching the 300 round’s mark and the gun was still going good.

    The 300 rounds videos are as under:

    Fraz: Firing two magazines of 15 rounds each
    http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/Ji...ed21d.mp4.html

    Nazim Sahib: Firing two magazines of 15 rounds each
    http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/Ji...bf653.mp4.html

    Dr Gilani: Firing two magazines of 15 rounds each
    http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/Ji...efeb5.mp4.html

    Accuracy Test:
    It was decided by the gang that we will test the accuracy of Trushot from 15 meters and then 25 meters but due to shortage of time, we could only test it at 15 meters. Anyways, the primary purpose of the handgun was intended as HD by Dr sb so 15 Meters was a sufficient enough distance for our test. Now, if you ask us for our honest opinion, it produced somewhat satisfactory results, considering all factors. i.e. The target was an A4 size page, we were shooting the handgun for the first time; using Chinese ammo which are not consistent wrt propellant gramage for accuracy testing; the front and rear sights were not fixed and were made of polymer type material and had probably not been zeroed by DSA the way other international manufacturers do; I guess the grouping was pretty good.

    The following video links would give you gentlemen some idea:
    Colt1911: Testing the accuracy of Trushot
    http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/Ji...0b2c7.mp4.html

    Fraz: Testing the accuracy of Trushot
    http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/Ji...fb279.mp4.html

    Dr Gilani: Testing the accuracy of Trushot
    http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/Ji...c3d56.mp4.html

    Nazim Sb: Testing the accuracy of Trushot
    http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/Ji...6b9a5.mp4.html

    Jibz: Testing the accuracy of Trushot
    http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/Ji...60fb7.mp4.html

    You can see that most of the groups generally landed on the 7oclock position. This may mean that a general shooter has a higher probability of landing his shots on a 7oclock position with the current sights of the Trushot.

    Water Dunking Test
    Despite lack of our comprehension, why a water dunking test is required for a handgun which Dr sb is considering for HD, Nazim sb was adamant that it is imperative that this test should be carried out. Falling prey to the fear of Nazim Sb’s gangster looks, each one of us humbly submitted ourselves to the test!!! Oops sorry, it was the handgun actually which underwent the test.

    The result is well described in the following video.
    http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/Ji...c5782.mp4.html

    Part-I: A 15 round magazine was loaded and with a chambered muzzle, Nazim sb went ahead and dipped the handgun in a water drum for a reasonable duration. He then straight away fired 15 rounds without any issue of FTE or FTF.
    Part-II: Nazim sb loaded another magazine; chambered a round and re-did the dunking process. Now he had fired only 7 rounds when the pistol stopped making any more bangy sounds. lol

    Comments on Water Dunking Test

    Yes. The firing pin broke from it’s rear-end where the hammer strikes. Now here started another debate among ourselves in which we were trying to comprehend the reasons behind breakage of the firing pin. Some of the members were of the opinion that it was the result of rapid temperature changes which resulted in accelerating the stress reversals; and after firing 15 rounds of the first clip for Water Dunking Test, the firing pin broke on the 7th round of the second clip. Now my thoughts on the subject are that there is a very insignificant temperature change in the firing pin even if one fires 100 rounds constantly. With insignificant, I mean the type of change which would not subject itself to becoming brittle with temperature change. For becoming brittle, the difference in temperatures (highest and lowest) needs to be quite high. For example, a sudden decline in temperature from 80C to 20C would most probably result in any metal becoming brittle and consequently breaking after being hit with a hammer. However the significantly high temperatures of a hot barrel or slide cannot transmit to the firing pin at the same levels and thus the rise or drop in temperature of a firing pin does not make sense.
    Reference to my discussions with Dr. Gilani, he was in agreement with my point of view to the extent that firing pin had exhausted/fatigued due to 400+ rounds but he was also of the opinion that dipping in water and overall changes in whole pistol temperature which was carrying/holding/encasing the firing pin went under accelerated wearing/fatigue/stress. He thinks that if the pistol was not dipped in water then the firing pin would have not at least failed during the 15+7 rounds of the Water Dunking Test and would have fired even more than 550+ rounds. We would highly appreciate the feedback and comments from other members of the forum. If I have to state a reason for the breakage of the firing pin, it is because it was time for it to break. Yes you heard me right; I think the life of the firing pin was 400 rounds and it did so when it reached its threshold. The Water Dunking Test has nothing to do with firing pin breaking.

    What Worked Well:
    1. The gun has controlled recoil and can be easily governed by anyone who has occasional pistol shooting experience.
    2. No FTF/FTE during the 300+ rounds which we fired. (To be exact we shot 357 rounds with it and we were told that DSA had already tested the same handgun with 48 rounds, making a grand total of 405 rounds).
    3. It has a comfortable grip which suited all of the shooters present at the range.


    What Didn’t Work Well:
    1. Trushot has a very long trigger rest and if a shooter is trying triple tap or more, it takes like ages for the trigger to reset. (We are sure this issue can be easily addressed by DSA).
    2. As I was the first one in the gang to give it a go, I felt a very minute creep in the trigger during the second stage but after firing 300+ rounds, it completely vanished and at least I didn’t feel it at all during the accuracy test.
    3. The front and rear sights need to be made out of metal as the ones on Trushot is polymer.
    4. There is almost no space on the sides of the front sight tip once it is aligned with the rear sights. For shooters like me, who utilize this space to align the intended target, it is a big downer.
    5. In case if the shooter is Dr Gilani sir, it is a must that the clip is firmly tapped for its proper seating. DSA is seriously considering entering these instructions in their user Manual of Trushot with special reference to Dr sb; joking. lol
    6. There was also a particular incident where the slide went forward and chambered a round when Nazim Sb firmly tapped the magazine in its place. Here it important to specify that this didn’t happen every time, however, to explain the problem to the technical staff of DSA, Nazim sb tapped the clip several times and 4 or 5 times the slide didn’t go forward without even pressing the slide release. It is something which is not safe and shouldn’t be happening. DSA needs to look in to this shortcoming which could be due to a week spring of the slide catcher.
    Last edited by Jibz; 08-04-2014 at 10:49 PM.

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    Great work @Jibz - we'll throw our comments one by one

    Regards

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    Supreme Member Fraz's Avatar
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    very nicely put Sir, you have covered all the aspects .... i just remembered that the pistol after the first few mags was lying in direct sunlight, which is also a reason for increase in the temp of the gun.... DSA Trueshot is an awesome product in terms of value for money. Anyone who can't buy an imported 9mm should certainly go for it instead of buying the knock off beretta clones...
    Before you embark on a journey of Revenge, dig two graves - Confucius (504 BC)
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    Supreme Member Fraz's Avatar
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    The DSA owners were eagerly observing the whole firing test and were constantly asking for inputs to improve the gun, which is a sign that DSA and Trushot will go a loooooooooooooong way in serving the costumers
    Before you embark on a journey of Revenge, dig two graves - Confucius (504 BC)
    102nd Chairborne Rangers, Special Forums Operator Delta, The Keyboard Commandos

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    Supreme Member colt 1911's Avatar
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    DSA people were quite concerned about the firing pin. Dr. Gillani had a long discussion with Noor ud din sahab of DSA for improving the design and reliability of the firing pin.

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    Supreme Member Nazim Sahib's Avatar
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    Excellent review Jibzz!!
    Perfectly laid out,couldnt be done better!

    Well here are a few points i would like to give.

    Pros
    1:A good well balanced handgun.Not on the heavy side but has a good solid feel.
    2:The gun gave no FTE or FTF.
    3:Spare parts and repairs will be easily available,provided you live in or near Peshawar.
    4:We fired from 5 magazines,all functioned well which means that the owner of this weapon will have unlimited access to good quality spare magazines.
    5:The owners of Daudsons had there entire technical staff join us during the shoot.The owner gave importance to every comment and view i had to give.

    Cons.
    1:What will be the fixed price of this weapon and its spare magazines?
    2:Why was there an episode with the firing pin? I DONT consider this a major issue however,a firing pin is the easiest part to replace in a firearm.
    3:The plastic grips.While the gun generally had a good grip im positive Daudsons can come up with a better grip.
    4:I found the trigger guard very uncomfortable and spoke to the owner of Daudsons about my reservations.He explained everything to his technician there and then.
    \"Ye daulut bhee lai lo,ye shurat bhee lai lau
    bhalay cheen lo mujsay meri jawaani
    *MAGAR*
    Muj ko Lauta do wo bijli,wo ata,wo chawal,wo roti,wo cheeni,wo pani Bhalay cheen lo mujsai meri jawani\"

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    Great review of @ Fraz, @ Nazim Sahib, @ Colt 1911 -
    Regards

    PS: I am coming up with some of my comments

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    Some features of TRUSHOT taken from its Technical DATA sheet:

    Barrel:

    Made from High Grade Alloy Steel 4140
    1 twist over 254 mm (1 in 10 inch)
    Coated with DSA Scratchless (TM) plating

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    DSA says "The Frame is machined from solid Aircraft Grade Aluminium"

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    Quote Originally Posted by colt 1911 View Post
    DSA people were quite concerned about the firing pin. Dr. Gillani had a long discussion with Noor ud din sahab of DSA for improving the design and reliability of the firing pin.
    yes very rightly said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fraz View Post
    very nicely put Sir, you have covered all the aspects .... i just remembered that the pistol after the first few mags was lying in direct sunlight, which is also a reason for increase in the temp of the gun.... DSA Trueshot is an awesome product in terms of value for money. Anyone who can't buy an imported 9mm should certainly go for it instead of buying the knock off beretta clones...
    Agreed!!!!!!!

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    excellent tests....went through all the vdos
    i hope DSA will come up with improvmnts...now they need proper marketing as well...
    i appreciate pakgunners who hv taken out time to test this wpn...it will help DSA alot and coming up with international std wpn!
    300 rds in one go is good enough for testing....
    yea...breaking firing pin is alarming....but still, dat happend after water dunking test....dat can be negotiated.
    i hope DSA do the drop test as well...
    good job

  13. #13
    Dear Mr. jibz, Dr. Gilani sb, Mr. Nazim, mr. Fraz and mr. Colt1911

    thank you all for your keen initiative, time and professionalism. We are grateful to you all for your efforts and first hand feedback. We have full faith in the DSA TRUSHOT and as promised, improvements will become visible on a continual basis. Every successful product follows an evolutionary path and we promise that ours will too!

    However, your continued support and trust in us is of paramount importance. We take our customer satisfaction and product quality extremely seriously. Having mentioned this we would like to request PG members and theirs friends to bare in mind that the DSA Trushot is after all being marketed as a budget 9mm that will perform under the normal use environment. So please be fair in your judgements even if they are critical in nature.

    We are also working on color options, accessory options, grips and personalization options like engraving etc. these options will add to the customization of the Trushot as per your needs for an added cost.

    we will produce videos of the standard drop test and other tests over time.

    The DSA warranty also stands by the DSA TRUSHOT with 18months of after sales service and part replacement in case of a manufacturing defect. Abusive usage is not covered under warranty however there is a lifetime part availability guarantee from DSA. Unfortunately the laws within Pakistan governing firearms do not allow for them to be transported freely, which makes it impossible for our dealers to handle warranties for our customers. Customers are responsible for delivering products under warranty directly to DSA. We cannot change this unless there is a change in government policy for the transport of firearms within Pakistan.

    We see this as the biggest advantage for owning a DSA firearm apart from its obvious price and performance benefit.

    Gentlemen, once again thank you for your good efforts, we will remain in touch with you and other enthusiastic PG members. please do visit us at www,Facebook.com/daudsonspk and share your stories with your friends and families.


    Sincerely,

    DSA
    Proud Manufacturers of Quality Hunting, Sporting and Security Firearms since 1954 - info[at] daudsons[dot]com [dot]pk - www.facebook.com/daudsonspk

  14. #14
    Nice report mr jibzz. And I have to say that you are a good shooter . All the bullets landed on the paper and most of them in the center .and you proved the accuracy of the firearm. .. I also thank all the members who participated in this test..
    As concerned about the firing pin there's nothing wrong with the temperature chang .as Dr sab mentioned that the barrel is made of steel alloy so its melting temperature is going to be about 1400~1800 C .and the temperature that we are having is 80C so its not even in the nearby the melting temperature. Although the properties of the materials are not going to chang until it reaches the melting point or near it. Even if the cooling method was air cooling or water quenching and even slow cooling ..
    Sorry for the poor english .. and please correct me if I was wrong .
    Thank you

    Regards

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    Quote Originally Posted by JNJ View Post
    Nice report mr jibzz. And I have to say that you are a good shooter . All the bullets landed on the paper and most of them in the center .and you proved the accuracy of the firearm. .. I also thank all the members who participated in this test..
    As concerned about the firing pin there's nothing wrong with the temperature chang .as Dr sab mentioned that the barrel is made of steel alloy so its melting temperature is going to be about 1400~1800 C .and the temperature that we are having is 80C so its not even in the nearby the melting temperature. Although the properties of the materials are not going to chang until it reaches the melting point or near it. Even if the cooling method was air cooling or water quenching and even slow cooling ..
    Sorry for the poor english .. and please correct me if I was wrong .
    Thank you

    Regards
    Dear @JNJ - thanks for comments. I agree to your notion, however the issue that I was trying to highlight and we all and I myself are open to rethink what we understood being making a guess. To me the Temperature difference Delta-T is the issue to consider and not the Temp T. The gradient that might happen, results in many issues such as volumetric deformations, the assembly that carries firing pin may also undergo differential temp diff - all these issue cause structural distress. This is bound to cause extra stress when pin is under full loading.

    Regards

  16. #16
    I was the first one to go and in a jiffy 3 mags of 15 rounds each had been fired without a single hiccup; No FTF/FTE. We checked the temperature of the barrel with the laser fitted temperature gauge and it was 83F/ 28C. Within next minute or so I had fired another 3 mags making a total of 90 rounds and checked the temperature yet again using the same device; it was still at 83F/ 28C.

    i am not experts in guns but i think thats impossible. even any gun in the world.


  17. #17
    Expert Member Jibz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Gilani View Post
    Great work @Jibz - we'll throw our comments one by one
    Regards
    Quote Originally Posted by Fraz View Post
    very nicely put Sir, you have covered all the aspects .... ...
    Quote Originally Posted by colt 1911 View Post
    DSA people were quite concerned about the firing pin. Dr. Gillani had a long discussion with Noor ud din sahab of DSA for improving the design and reliability of the firing pin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nazim Sahib View Post
    Excellent review Jibzz!!
    Perfectly laid out,couldnt be done better!
    ...........
    Many thanks gentlemen. This write up couldn't have been possible without your meticulous support. This PG team effort has reaped good results.

  18. #18
    Member Extraordinaire ajmal virk's Avatar
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    Dear Jibz bro nice review excellent jobs bro no doubt this pistol looks great and also happy to see faces of few PG fellows.

  19. #19
    Expert Member Jibz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salman_hunter View Post
    excellent tests....went through all the vdos
    i hope DSA will come up with improvmnts...now they need proper marketing as well...
    i appreciate pakgunners who hv taken out time to test this wpn...it will help DSA alot and coming up with international std wpn!
    300 rds in one go is good enough for testing....
    yea...breaking firing pin is alarming....but still, dat happend after water dunking test....dat can be negotiated.
    i hope DSA do the drop test as well...
    good job
    Dear Salman
    You are very right regarding developing and executing a solid marketing strategy by DSA. I would like to point it out that during the tests we were informed that DSA is considering to produce two grades of this handgun. According to them, there will be a first grade Trushot and a not-so-first rather a second grade Trushot. In my opinion, this strategy can be disastrous for this new handgun to establish its footing in our market. How?? Well if the dealers are selling the second grade handguns by providing misinformation to its customers and saying that its first grade, a higher probability of any misfortune with respect to FTE/FTF or God forbid a kaboom will surely tarnish the image of this handgun for sure. We, as responsible gun enthusiasts, there and then suggested to DSA that no such two-grade production should be adopted for the above stated reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAUDSONSARMOURY View Post
    Dear Mr. jibz, Dr. Gilani sb, Mr. Nazim, mr. Fraz and mr. Colt1911
    thank you all for your keen initiative, time and professionalism. We are grateful to you all for your efforts and first hand feedback. We have full faith in the DSA TRUSHOT and as promised, improvements will become visible on a continual basis. Every successful product follows an evolutionary path and we promise that ours will too!
    ......................
    Sincerely,
    DSA
    DSA
    Many thanks once again for your hospitality and a very welcoming attitude. You have our best wishes with this venture. We are confident that your team is determined to make this handgun a success and thus we are very hopeful that scrupulous attention will be paid to those amendable issues which arose during the test.
    Regards

  20. #20
    Expert Member Jibz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiazkhan View Post
    I was the first one to go and in a jiffy 3 mags of 15 rounds each had been fired without a single hiccup; No FTF/FTE. We checked the temperature of the barrel with the laser fitted temperature gauge and it was 83F/ 28C. Within next minute or so I had fired another 3 mags making a total of 90 rounds and checked the temperature yet again using the same device; it was still at 83F/ 28C.

    i am not experts in guns but i think thats impossible. even any gun in the world.
    Fiaz, I guess you took the literal meaning of Jiffy. I used it as metaphor, roor.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajmal virk View Post
    Dear Jibz bro nice review excellent jobs bro no doubt this pistol looks great and also happy to see faces of few PG fellows.
    Most manana dear. Your kind words are highly encouraging for all of us.

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