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Thread: Colt 1911 in .455 Webley Auto

  1. #21
    Expert Member Jibz's Avatar
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    Around a week back I visited DAK and found only 3 rounds of .455 Auto. The headstamps stated that one was Eley (production year 1917) and two were from 1918 (Eley). Out of these 3 rounds, only one managed to fire (production year 1918) through the Colt M1911. The other 2 had quite deep firing pin strike imprints on their primers but they didn’t go off. Well, what else would one expect from a 100 year old ammo?

    To check the potency of the round I was shooting at a Human Torso size target from 100 meters and you can see in the video (which I am trying to upload but am unsuccessful due to some crappy reason) that the bullet fell at around 70 meters or so. I am pretty confident that it was neither the handgun nor the shooter but the century old round itself that fell only half the distance from where it was intended to land. Its propellant must have lived through its good days.

    The pictures of the rounds and the headstamps.


    The center one proved its might, somewhat. hahahaha
    “Bottom Line; If We’re Gonna Have Fun, There Better Be A Lot Of Ammo!”


  2. #22
    Member Extraordinaire FA226's Avatar
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    Thats great atleast you were able to fire it in its orignal caliber now you can find a .45 barrel for it.

  3. #23
    Expert Member Jibz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FA226 View Post
    Thats great atleast you were able to fire it in its orignal caliber now you can find a .45 barrel for it.
    JazakAllah Khair Roor. That indeed is the plan. I found a .45 Barrel but its grooves did not look lucrative at all so I gave it a pass.
    “Bottom Line; If We’re Gonna Have Fun, There Better Be A Lot Of Ammo!”


  4. #24
    PakGuns Elite! AK47's Avatar
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    "Falling" at 70 mtrs.... Lol!

    This means "catch" at 69 mtrs.... Lolzz!

    Best luck onwards to. 45 ACP!
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage, than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.

    "Take your time and deliberate, but when the time for action has arrived, stop thinking, and go in. "

  5. #25
    Member Extraordinaire FA226's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibz View Post
    JazakAllah Khair Roor. That indeed is the plan. I found a .45 Barrel but its grooves did not look lucrative at all so I gave it a pass.
    I hope you will find one in good condition soon inshaAllah.

  6. #26
    Supreme Member pakistanitoup's Avatar
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    get a local barrel for it dear.
    Keep Calm & Carry One

  7. #27
    Big & Sexy Moeen's Avatar
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    Salam All,
    @Jibz - You have truly found a hidden gem. I wouldn't fire it... rather display it. The DAK shop you went to - was it the old guy on the main road - carries a lot of odd ammo? If not then visit him - I cannot remember his name, I do remember his shop was on the right side coming from Peshawar after Asia Arms store and more near Haji Rahim Shah's shop but in the main road. He also has or had a lot of .22cb caps i remember. Either way, great job.
    \"In a world of compromise... Some Don\'t!\" Heckler & Koch

    \"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.\" Bill of Rights - 2 Amendment of the Constitution of U.S.

  8. #28
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Well. a WW 1 weapon mated to a WW1 round. thier short lived reltionship must have made em cry tears of joy. No wonder the round did not go far from her beloved weapon..

    Waisay I am very curious. how on earth do the good people of DAK nestled miles away from anywhere. .manage to get such stuff..
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  9. #29
    When I saw what you were doing to a fine old collectible I almost started crying, but your finished job is absolutely beautiful. You do excellent work. I love the old 1911s, much more "old school" and elegant than the 1911A1.
    About 2 years ago I had 3 boxes of the .455 Auto ammo, each 10 rounds I think. I sold them all quickly for a very good price. I usually see 3-5 or them at cartridge collector shows. I wish I could send loaded rounds to you.

  10. #30
    Expert Member Jibz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK47 View Post
    "Falling" at 70 mtrs.... Lol!
    This means "catch" at 69 mtrs.... Lolzz!
    Best luck onwards to. 45 ACP!
    Sir, the literal SHORTFALL of the round got me CAUGHT off-guard. lolz. Cheers for the well wishes. I shall keep you all updated inshAllah.

    Quote Originally Posted by FA226 View Post
    I hope you will find one in good condition soon inshaAllah.
    JazakAllah Khair, Roor.

    Quote Originally Posted by pakistanitoup View Post
    get a local barrel for it dear.
    Yes dear, a local barrel could solve the "rare ammo availability" issue, however, genuine .45 barrels in good condition are not that scarce. Hopefully a good deal would pop up soon InshAllah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moeen View Post
    Salam All,
    @Jibz - You have truly found a hidden gem. I wouldn't fire it... rather display it. The DAK shop you went to - was it the old guy on the main road - carries a lot of odd ammo? If not then visit him - I cannot remember his name, I do remember his shop was on the right side coming from Peshawar after Asia Arms store and more near Haji Rahim Shah's shop but in the main road. He also has or had a lot of .22cb caps i remember. Either way, great job.
    Most manana sir. Yes that's exactly him sir, Raikhon Haji. No doubt, he has the most rare ammo I have come across and on top of it, unlike many others I have met, he actually knows about cartridges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Desires View Post
    Well. a WW 1 weapon mated to a WW1 round. thier short lived reltionship must have made em cry tears of joy. No wonder the round did not go far from her beloved weapon..
    Waisay I am very curious. how on earth do the good people of DAK nestled miles away from anywhere. .manage to get such stuff..
    lol @ your dramatization. . And as to how these DAK people get their hands on such items, I too am simply baffled.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyc View Post
    When I saw what you were doing to a fine old collectible I almost started crying, but your finished job is absolutely beautiful. You do excellent work. I love the old 1911s, much more "old school" and elegant than the 1911A1.
    About 2 years ago I had 3 boxes of the .455 Auto ammo, each 10 rounds I think. I sold them all quickly for a very good price. I usually see 3-5 or them at cartridge collector shows. I wish I could send loaded rounds to you.
    I am glad the finished product put a stop to your crying. hahhahaha. Just Kidding. Many thanks for the compliments, I am honored. And I totally agree that the Old School 1911 are in a league of their own. Also, cheers for the kind gesture of sending the ammo, but alas, owing to the current situation in our country, thats not possible even if they had been available with you.
    Regards
    “Bottom Line; If We’re Gonna Have Fun, There Better Be A Lot Of Ammo!”


  11. #31
    Enthusiast TRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibz View Post
    only one managed to fire (production year 1918) through the Colt M1911. The other 2 had quite deep firing pin strike imprints on their primers but they didn’t go off. Well, what else would one expect from a 100 year old ammo?
    The first priming compounds used mercury, then various chlorates, and sometimes both. The problem with the mercury-containing priming compounds is that they have a limited shelf life, some of them only a few years, and they lose potency. Those primers probably expired in your grandfather's day.

    Starting shortly after yours were made, and for something like 75 years, there were only two priming compounds: potassium chlorate (corrosive) and lead styphnate (non-corrosive). Both worked quite well; chlorate primers work correctly at any temperature from boiling hot to well below freezing, while the lead styphnate primers vary in power ("brisance" is the technical term) by temperature, which is why military ballistics charts for non-corrosive primers have temperature corrections. Countries using corrosive chlorate primers just ignored that sort of thing, besides, cleaning runs kept soldiers out of trouble.

    In the 1990s, mostly in the USA due to "environmental" politics, there was a push to eliminate lead from primers. There are half a dozen compounds that made it to market, some of them also with very short shelf lives. Now there are only a couple. None of them are available to reloaders, not that we'd want them anyway. Some of them had odd-sized primer pockets or were very temperature sensitive. Despite the continuing push from government agencies, the vast majority of primers are still lead styphnate.

  12. #32
    Enthusiast TRX's Avatar
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    By the way, the nearly-hemispherical noses of the .455 bullets are quite common for British ammunition designed from the late 1800s to the early 1900s, both for military and civilian applications. The shape was virtually unknown for American-designed bullets.

    I've never seen any explanation as to why it was so popular. I suspect it might have been something simple, like Kynoch or some other large vendor being tooled up to make that shape in vast quantities, therefore that shape was used because it was cheap and available. But that's just a speculation with no evidence to back it up.

  13. #33
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRX View Post
    The first priming compounds used mercury, then various chlorates, and sometimes both. The problem with the mercury-containing priming compounds is that they have a limited shelf life, some of them only a few years, and they lose potency. Those primers probably expired in your grandfather's day.

    Starting shortly after yours were made, and for something like 75 years, there were only two priming compounds: potassium chlorate (corrosive) and lead styphnate (non-corrosive). Both worked quite well; chlorate primers work correctly at any temperature from boiling hot to well below freezing, while the lead styphnate primers vary in power ("brisance" is the technical term) by temperature, which is why military ballistics charts for non-corrosive primers have temperature corrections. Countries using corrosive chlorate primers just ignored that sort of thing, besides, cleaning runs kept soldiers out of trouble.

    In the 1990s, mostly in the USA due to "environmental" politics, there was a push to eliminate lead from primers. There are half a dozen compounds that made it to market, some of them also with very short shelf lives. Now there are only a couple. None of them are available to reloaders, not that we'd want them anyway. Some of them had odd-sized primer pockets or were very temperature sensitive. Despite the continuing push from government agencies, the vast majority of primers are still lead styphnate.
    Thanks for your feebdback TRX.. I had no idea that there were so many primer compounds around.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

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