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Thread: 223 AK shape rifle by RAC (Royal Arms Company) : A review..

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    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    223 AK shape rifle by RAC (Royal Arms Company) : A review..

    Soo we got the good Virus to drag his elderly father to the range... .. To test out the .223 RAC Rifle he had purchased.

    First Impression: It looks exactly like a Chinese Type 56 A 2 (but for the thoughtful “Jamshed” carved on the butt of the weapon. ) The balance and feel is pretty good as well. I charged the weapon, popped three rounds in the mag and fired her at a target placed at 10 yards... They grouped well. No evidence of tumbling... Only she was full auto.. off her own volition. That was a bit of a shock. But I switched to one round per mag after that. At 15 yards , again, no evidence of tumbling. And she was grouping nicely. Also there was no evidence of any breakage of the rounds in the barrel. Unlike my old rifle, the weapon was shooting where it was aimed.

    Nor did it chew up the rounds in the barrel and spray them like a ‘paan kee peek’ ( no idea how to translate that one). At 25 yards, I did get a decent sized group of around 4 to 5 inches. But I was too scared of it to aim properly. I am willing to bet that had Deathrow being there, the group would have been much tighter. But the increase in distance had also increased the tumbling effect. And yes the rounds started key holing. Not all of them, but one in 3.

    I was not able to check her at 75 yards due to the large number of people present there. But , I am sure that she can tag a man sized target around 100 yards or so. The mags need a bit of sanding cause the rounds were a bit loose. In short, it had the typical teething problems of an average local.

    At 40k she was slightly more expensive than many locals. I would have pegged her at 35k. But then RAC did give original greet tip ammo for 55 a pop when the current market rate is 75 a pop. So it ironed out overall.

    In summary: It’s a million times better than my local .223 that was not able to do 5 yards. But is it as good as a cqa? No! But then it does not cost 400k either. It’s a decent buy.... for its price… We took the liberty of getting in touch with RAC and they are willing to take care of whatever is wrong with the spring that is making it go full auto. They are willing to change the barrel as well.

    I decided to take a risk and I have now placed an order for a Saiga shaped .222 (5.45x39) weapon from them and sent em the payment. I have also asked them to make me a .45 acp as well. And for good measure a .22lr super sub compact too.

    I hope my trust in their products pays off.

    They are doing their own version of the CQA as well as the AR 15 with prices starting from 200k upwards. And yes they did a Draganov chambered in . 308 Winchester and its asking is 75k. If the .222 i ordered works out. .I have that Draganov in my wish list as well.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

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    Thanks for the update!

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    But they say their own manufactured .223 is between 150 to 300 K which is not cheap by any way . 40 K is the price of local manufactured rifle they do deal in it but it is not their product . Rest God knows well

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    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cancer_doc View Post
    But they say their own manufactured .223 is between 150 to 300 K which is not cheap by any way . 40 K is the price of local manufactured rifle they do deal in it but it is not their product . Rest God knows well

    Well.. I was at their factory outlet and the son of the owner claimed that these rifles were made by them with the help of CNC machines. I have given him an order for the AK 74 (.222) wiht instructions to send me pics throughout the manufectering process
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

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    Supreme Member pakistanitoup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Desires View Post
    Well.. I was at their factory outlet and the son of the owner claimed that these rifles were made by them with the help of CNC machines. I have given him an order for the AK 74 (.222) wiht instructions to send me pics throughout the manufectering process
    most of them are using CNC machines.
    Keep Calm & Carry One

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    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    For the life of me, i cannot understand why their barrels are such that 'all' rifles end up key holing ?
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

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    Supreme Member pakistanitoup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Desires View Post
    For the life of me, i cannot understand why their barrels are such that 'all' rifles end up key holing ?
    Rifling is not CNC i guess. CNC is used to carve metal parts i.e slide, frame etc. rest is hand made. i think barrel is made using a drill bit, reason for bad accuracy can be due to wrong rifling twist rate or inconsistency in rifling. can be any issue. but local barrels are not nice specially in case of rifles.
    Keep Calm & Carry One

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    So we took brother Virus's RAC .223 ak shape rifle for another outing at the range. And as usual she started key holing all over the target at 25 yards. slugs in odd shapes all over the target, as is the norm for local rifles.

    But then a curious thing happened...

    After the initial few rounds, she stopped key holing and started grouping nicely. I thought maybe it was shooter error so I stopped shooting the weapon myself, and even gave it to people who had never even shot a gun in their lives.

    But she kept grouping nicely at 25. We fired dozens of rounds, but after the first 5 key holes. She did misbehave even once..

    Still trying to figure out what happened though ...
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

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    Member Extraordinaire shahroze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Desires View Post
    So we took brother Virus's RAC .223 ak shape rifle for another outing at the range. And as usual she started key holing all over the target at 25 yards. slugs in odd shapes all over the target, as is the norm for local rifles.

    But then a curious thing happened...

    After the initial few rounds, she stopped key holing and started grouping nicely. I thought maybe it was shooter error so I stopped shooting the weapon myself, and even gave it to people who had never even shot a gun in their lives.

    But she kept grouping nicely at 25. We fired dozens of rounds, but after the first 5 key holes. She did misbehave even once..

    Still trying to figure out what happened though ...
    Copper and lead residue filled the micro pitting or uneven rifling in the barrel. Hence giving you some accuracy.
    To test it further
    Clean the bore thoroughly with a dedicated copper solvent Tetra is recommended and a lead remover
    Once cleaned it'll start keyholing again
    Communist until you get rich; Feminist until you get married; Atheist until the airplane starts falling.

  10. #10
    RAC advertised a CQ5.56 with "Original" chinese barrel a few backs on FB, the price quoted inbox was 70K. Just curious will an original barrel make their accuracy better?

    and BTW Moon Star Arms M4 copy is currently being quoted for Rs, 150K (factory price) meaning even higher if sold out of Peshawar like in Punjab, Karachi etc. I personally feel 150K is insane for a locally produced M4 copy in PEW. They could claim all the wanna brag about it and write whatever they want stamp they want but in reality it will always have the "Desi" label on it, which isn't any issue to me but quality/ accuracy wise I may be a bit skeptical about it.

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    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK47 View Post
    RAC advertised a CQ5.56 with "Original" chinese barrel a few backs on FB, the price quoted inbox was 70K. Just curious will an original barrel make their accuracy better?

    and BTW Moon Star Arms M4 copy is currently being quoted for Rs, 150K (factory price) meaning even higher if sold out of Peshawar like in Punjab, Karachi etc. I personally feel 150K is insane for a locally produced M4 copy in PEW. They could claim all the wanna brag about it and write whatever they want stamp they want but in reality it will always have the "Desi" label on it, which isn't any issue to me but quality/ accuracy wise I may be a bit skeptical about it.
    CQ barrels they dont have, as they told me quite candidly. No imports from china. they do however have access to original NATO M4 barrels. at around 45k a peice. the total cost of such a hybrid was approximately, 235k or so. When it eventually reached Karachi. WE have so far put 200 round sthough it. Working fine. Lower and uper are local. Rest is China or US wht barrel and BCG being US.

    The 70k weapon has to be an out and out local. I have no idea what Moonstar puts in their guns since the moon star outlet in Karachi is a completely different entity from the Peshawar one .
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by shahroze View Post
    Copper and lead residue filled the micro pitting or uneven rifling in the barrel. Hence giving you some accuracy.
    To test it further
    Clean the bore thoroughly with a dedicated copper solvent Tetra is recommended and a lead remover
    Once cleaned it'll start keyholing again
    Hmmm.. you know you have a good point there Shahroz. I talked to local gunsmiths and they said the crown had micro burrs. That the green tips "straightened out". Your explanation seems more plausible .. I will ask the good Virus to clean it and we will give it another go.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Desires View Post
    CQ barrels they dont have, as they told me quite candidly. No imports from china. they do however have access to original NATO M4 barrels. at around 45k a peice. the total cost of such a hybrid was approximately, 235k or so. When it eventually reached Karachi. WE have so far put 200 round sthough it. Working fine. Lower and uper are local. Rest is China or US wht barrel and BCG being US.

    The 70k weapon has to be an out and out local. I have no idea what Moonstar puts in their guns since the moon star outlet in Karachi is a completely different entity from the Peshawar one .
    Agree. That's what I thought. Anyway just got another update on prices from SK Engineering. I don't know how reliable are their products but here are their prices as per their message.

    " price start 125000 150000 180000 230000 4lac "

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK47 View Post
    Agree. That's what I thought. Anyway just got another update on prices from SK Engineering. I don't know how reliable are their products but here are their prices as per their message.

    " price start 125000 150000 180000 230000 4lac "
    4lac!!! Ambitious buggers arnt they ?
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Desires View Post
    4lac!!! Ambitious buggers arnt they ?
    Until not long ago we were complaining about the original Colt M4's retailing at those prices, now we have made in Peshawar retailing at 4 lac. What a joke. Cheeky is not the word. I personally wouldn't pay that much for a made in PEW piece.
    Last edited by MK47; 30-10-2018 at 03:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK47 View Post
    Until not long ago we were complaining about the original Colt M4's retailing at those prices, now we have made in Peshawar retailing at 4 lac. What a joke. Cheeky is not the word. I personally wouldn't pay that much for a made in PEW piece.
    Aint no one will.. And if he does.. my hat's off to him..

    Albait we did get a AR with local trigger group, local upper and lower and amracian barrel and BCG and a few Chinese parts thrown in. The whole heap was worth 235k with delivery to Karachi thrown in for good measure.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

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    Senior Moderator Denovo87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Desires View Post
    So we took brother Virus's RAC .223 ak shape rifle for another outing at the range. And as usual she started key holing all over the target at 25 yards. slugs in odd shapes all over the target, as is the norm for local rifles.

    But then a curious thing happened...

    After the initial few rounds, she stopped key holing and started grouping nicely. I thought maybe it was shooter error so I stopped shooting the weapon myself, and even gave it to people who had never even shot a gun in their lives.

    But she kept grouping nicely at 25. We fired dozens of rounds, but after the first 5 key holes. She did misbehave even once..

    Still trying to figure out what happened though ...
    What barrel twist rate this rifle has? And what ammo you were using, ED bro? NATO ?
    Keep your fears to yourself, but share your courage with others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Denovo87 View Post
    What barrel twist rate this rifle has? And what ammo you were using, ED bro? NATO ?
    I asked the maker the same question Danny bhai. And he goes "Twist what? with a completely blank look"

    We were using green tips. I was suspicious of the ammo. So I ripped the rounds apart at the range and checked them thoroughly. They were original green tips all right.

    I am still trying to figure out the twist rate of the weapon. One theory is that they are using the twist rate of the original M16 A1 rifles from the 60s. THose might have problems stabilizing the current NATO ammo. But, it is essentially still a theory
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

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    Senior Moderator Denovo87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Desires View Post
    I asked the maker the same question Danny bhai. And he goes "Twist what? with a completely blank look"

    We were using green tips. I was suspicious of the ammo. So I ripped the rounds apart at the range and checked them thoroughly. They were original green tips all right.

    I am still trying to figure out the twist rate of the weapon. One theory is that they are using the twist rate of the original M16 A1 rifles from the 60s. THose might have problems stabilizing the current NATO ammo. But, it is essentially still a theory
    I am sure its 1 in 12, you can check it by yourself i.e. put a tightly fit rag on cleaning rod, push through the barrel and watch after how many inches rod completes a turn. I would suggest to try finding 55grn (or even lighter) ammo for this rifle; twist rate is too slow to stabilise NATO green tips.
    Keep your fears to yourself, but share your courage with others.

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    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Hmmm.. nice idea. We dont have 55 grainers here . At least i have not seen any.. But I will try chnese rounds. But I have no idea about their specs though
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

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