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Thread: Artemis P15 .22 Caliber

  1. #1

    Artemis P15 .22 Caliber

    First of all, I am really thankful to my brother Kahsif Hameed Khan who told me about the gun when it was in production process. I think, he shared a post on “airgun club” too.The darling this for us was its weight. It’s just 2Kg gun man. The world’s lightest bullpup available only the Pakistani market up-till now.
    At the hill station, where I/we live, WEIGHT is always a major problem when walk around.We purchased three in .22 caliber and three in .25 caliber. Later on, one of us decided to quit and we sold one (that was .25 cal). I think there is no need to mention the specification of this gun because everyone over here knew about its specs.




    Let me make it clear before I start saying something about it. I am not an expert shooter or pro tuner, I am just a beginner/learner. Therefore, I am sharing the raw material that we (me and my friends) collected about this gun i.e P15 .22 cal. So that, I may gain more knowledge. Positive criticism and guidance from the experienced people will be warm welcomed.

    Our shipment arrived at 13 January, 2017 and I informed the buddies about it. Instead of individual efforts, we decided to get the job done with combine efforts.

    On a sunny Saturday, we just filled it up-to 200 bars (please note the recommended fill pressure is 250 bars). The first shot string was not good for me. Mine was shooting too hot (Ave Velocity 914 fps 25 shots ES 19 FPS,) other two were shooting with the Ave velocity 844 FPS (ES 23 FPS, 37 shots) and 840 FPS (ES 18, 41shots ). We were hopeful with the chrony numbers because the shot count was better than P12 (first batch that came with regulator).

    The dismantling started on Saturday night, thanks God, the bleed valve were there to degas the gun. We don’t need to dry fire. First problem was---- how to remove the barrel. A grub screw under the rail was holding the barrel (I came to know about it when we were assembling it after cleaning). So I have to remove the trigger assembly and loosen the tube/barrel clamp, removed the tube and then I was able to remove the barrel.

    My friend Fahad took the barrel for cleaning as he is the guy who love to clean barrel. The fourth patch (used the dry patch) was pure white. I asked him to stop but he wanted to pass a wet patch through it and that was moment for which he scolded himself for the rest of night. The wet patch came out with a lot of residue. It took more than 50 patches to completely clean the barrel.He was busy with barrel and I proceed further in dismantling.
    Contrary to my expectations, the internals were different than P12/P10.

    Valve:-
    The conical valve spring came out as we removed the tube. There was no spring retention cap (means less restriction in the path of air). The spring was compressed between the in-block valve and a housing made at front of the tube (at the opposite side of spacer). The valve was sitting in the main block. It was not protruding out as in P12/P10. I removed the valve from the block.

    It was a simple and cleaver design.The air flow path was at the max. The valve throat was 5.5 mm and the tunnel was 4.5 mm.(plz note that I haven’t the precise tools this measurement, just do it with caliper and drill bits) The seat was flat and valve stem had a conical shape under the stem head. That was entirely different thing.
    IMHO, it’s more efficient design. (I’ll discuss it latter why it is more efficient)

    I wish there were a restriction screw to control the air flow externally.

    Hammer and Hammer Spring:-
    After removing the sear engagement mechanism, the complete trigger block was remove from the main block. Remove the hammer spring adjuster and the hammer spring that came out from the housing was also different than the spring in P12/P10.

    They cleverly used the idea of stiff spring with the perfect combination of valve spring. A 54.4mm long spring residing in 50.4mm housing. From factory, the preload on the spring was 11.4 mm. which was fighting with the adequate valve spring. You can almost eliminate the hammer bounce by spending some time with hammer spring adjuster. That’s why we saw more shots per fill with this with 265cc tube.

    Yes! We have to pay for that higher shot count. We have to sacrifice the lower cocking effort as they have used the stiff spring for better efficiency. And I think, it must be one of the major reasons for the side liver on this gun. With this spring, bolt action must be a bad choice. Side liver make it rather easy to cock. Despite that, some people are not happy (including me) with the relatively more coking effort.
    Hammer on this gun is slim, cylindrical and lighter. It remind me the top hat for the main spring in the Gamo Shadow 1000. If we compare it with the hammer of P12/P10, it’s entirely different in shape design and weight.

    [URL=http://s410.photobucket.com/user/thespardian/media/6_zpscr6mtcwv.jpg.html][IMG]http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp185/thespardian/6_zpscr6mtcwv.jpg~original[/IMG][/URL]

    Barrel and Shroud:-

    If you look through the both barrel (12/P10 and P15), you will feel a clear difference in the pattern of lands and grooves. After shooting more than 2500, I can surly say, its more accurate than the barrel on P12/P10 I ever used. But cleaning it for the first time is a nightmare.

    They have inserted the baffles in the shroud and drilled holes at the rear end of the shroud. Honestly say, I am not happy with shroud. It is louder than my expectation. They have dropped a series of baffles in the shroud which has a little play. If you move up and down (from vertical position) you will hear a sound, just like the sound we hear in FX guns. But it’s not the free floating hammer, ----these are the baffles in the shroud. Holes at the rear of the shroud is the successful mod but don’t know why didn’t the things were working properly on this gun. Perhaps! They have drilled more holes or the sizing of the baffles is not perfect. I still need to know about it.

    With the baffles and holes at the rear of shroud, it should be much quieter than P12/P10 but unfortunately, we can’t feel much difference in the loudness between them.

    Barrel/Tube Clamps:-
    A friend from Lahore forced me to indicate this point. Honestly say! I don’t want to talk about it.

    Some people pointed out that there are only two screws on the barrel/tube clamps. So the barrel is not secured with this setup.

    Here is the reply of my friend from Lahore for those people.It is fully secured even with two screws. If you carefully examined the barrel, there is a dent in the middle of barrel for grub screw. Just remove the scope rail, you will see six holes under the rail. Three towards the muzzle end and three towards the breach end. The middle hole from breach end has a grub screw which is firmly holding the barrel. So the barrel is fully secured and I agree with him. So don’t worry about it.





    Trigger:-
    The trickiest part of this air rifle is its trigger. Before dismantling, the trigger pull was acceptable. But after dismantling, it was pretty stiff. It took some time to find out the reason. Once we figure it out, the trigger became much lighter.

    The trigger linkage not only increase/decrease the hammer travel but also responsible for trigger pull. At the sear block, there is small nut which has grub screw in it. This grub screw is responsible for the sear engagement.If we hold the gun (scope rail towards you), and rotate the trigger block, anti-clock wise, the linkage rod will get tight and trigger will become stiffer (Even one turn may affect a lot).

    If we rotate it clockwise, it will become softer. Find the sweet spot and assemble it on the barrel/tube clamps.Then cock the gun and tight the grub screw until the hammer release itself. Back off the grub screw by the half turn. It’s hair trigger now.IMHO, it’s more….. lighter than P12/P10

    Regulator:-
    Again different shape and the same performance as we have already seen in the Chinese regulators. In the previous regulator, the problem I notice with the previous Chinese regulator (that came with the first batch of P12) was : they were very sensitive with adjustment screw. A slight adjustment had a lot of impact on regulator pressure and that’s why setting the regulator for the desired velocity was rather difficult task.

    But these regulators (came with P15) are not that much sensitive and doing the job pretty well.

    [URL=http://s410.photobucket.com/user/thespardian/media/4_zpsgceodrl3.jpg.html][IMG]http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp185/thespardian/4_zpsgceodrl3.jpg~original[/IMG][/URL]

    Why it’s more efficient?





    The Fig 1 and F2 are the oscilloscopic results for the hammer bounce in P15 from breach end and muzzle end respectively. The readings in this graph has been taken has been with dry fire.
    Nobody don’t care how many times the hammer bounce back, if it doesn’t have the energy to open the valve for second or third time.

    Look at Fig 1; you may observe total three sets of bump in the line labeled as 1st, 2nd and 3rd Strike. The first bump appeared when the hammer hit the valve stem for the first time. Rest of two bumps represents the hammer bounce. It means that hammer bounce back two times during a shot cycle.

    Now look at the Fig 2; upon first strike on valve stem, a lot of air released but the second strike (first hammer bounce) is not that much effective. Although a small amount of air released with the hammer bounce yet the wastage of air was significantly less than that P12/P10.

    The above graphs give us a good idea of what is actually going on inside the gun. Now we (me and my friends) are sure that we should not waste our time to think about the elimination of hammer bounce for further efficiency/more shot counts
    (Special thanks to Fahad the arrangement of things requried for oscilloscopic test)

    Summery:-
    P15 resemble to P12/P10 but it’s the different thing, because
    Unlike the P12 or P10, it has
    i) 265 cc tube
    ii) Bleed valve for degasing
    iii) Baffles in the shroud
    iv) Holes in the rear of shroud
    v) Different barrel
    vi) A barrel port
    vii) Trigger mechanism is slightly different (much better )
    viii) Shotgun Style (Cross bolt type) trigger safety
    ix) Valve assembly is different
    x) Regulator design is different
    xi) Hammer is slim, cylindrical in shape resembling to BSA R10
    xii) No seals on pellet probe (a seal inside the barrel)
    xiii) Barrel has two seals
    xiv) Two screw on barrel/tube clamp instead of four
    xv) Indent on barrel for alignment with TP
    xvi) 11mm scope rail
    xvii) Side liver
    xviii) 9 shots mag (fills like FX mag)
    xix) Approximately 5inch shorter
    xx) Trimmed stock
    xxi) Lighter (2.1 kg)

    Here are the shot strings. 1st and 2nd strings are without any modification. I just adjust the hammer spring tension. The 1st string is with HSA 7-1/4 turns in and 2nd string is with HSA 7-3/4 turns in. After making Hammer spring adjustment on three different guns, I am able to say that 7-3/4 turns is the suitable spring tension for better efficiency.

    [URL=http://s410.photobucket.com/user/thespardian/media/String1_zpsoefgj789.jpg.html]
    [IMG]http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp185/thespardian/String1_zpsoefgj789.jpg~original[/IMG][/URL]

    [URL=http://s410.photobucket.com/user/thespardian/media/String2_zps4aiugmn9.jpg.html][IMG]http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp185/thespardian/String2_zps4aiugmn9.jpg~original[/IMG][/URL]

    The third shot string is taken after some simple modification (by inserting a pair of softer springs and bump up the regulator). You can see that the efficiency of the gun is much better but I have not achieved the goal yet. The “tukkay bazziii” for the improvement is “to be continued”. Hopefully, I’ll update about it.

    [URL=http://s410.photobucket.com/user/thespardian/media/String%203_zpsxovs30sh.jpg.html]
    [IMG]http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp185/thespardian/String%203_zpsxovs30sh.jpg~original[/IMG][/URL]
    Last edited by thespardian; 16-02-2017 at 10:51 AM.

  2. #2
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    To be honest Thespardian.. Your review is soooooo effin comprehensive that it blew me away.. like literally..

    I keep trying to come back and read it completely. But I generally get 'Blown away' within the first few paragraphs.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  3. #3
    I really appreciate your encouragement and kind words, Enigmatic Desires.
    Undeserved praise indeed.

  4. #4
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thespardian View Post
    I really appreciate your encouragement and kind words, Enigmatic Desires.
    Undeserved praise indeed.
    I m curious.. how long did it take you to write it?
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Desires View Post
    I m curious.. how long did it take you to write it?

    Hehehehee..... Now if chewing through it tires you ED its gotta be something?

    Here I see a worthy opponent with the due capacity to write long winded stories and descriptions. Plebians like us will enjoy this show if it ever takes off. Hmmm

  6. #6
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali D View Post
    Hehehehee..... Now if chewing through it tires you ED its gotta be something?

    Here I see a worthy opponent with the due capacity to write long winded stories and descriptions. Plebians like us will enjoy this show if it ever takes off. Hmmm
    Pre-sisely. While We have done everything possible from using a chrony for figuring out the vilos to vernier calipering 9mm rounds of various brands..

    But this is next level stuff..
    henceforth I declare the 'Thespardian' to be my undisputed guru in all things long winded..
    Last edited by Enigmatic Desires; 24-02-2017 at 01:43 PM.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Desires View Post
    Pre-sisely. While We have done everything possible from using a chrony for figuring out to vilos to vernier calipering 9mm rounds of various brands..

    But this is next level stuff..
    henceforre I declare the 'Thespardian' to be my undisputed guru in all things long winded..
    Hahahahaa..... found your match. But I love your sportsman spirit. Keep at it and we shall keep on enjoying!

  8. #8
    Member H Panni's Avatar
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    Good stuff Ali. Keep us updated and some 50 meter and 100 meter group images would be great (Not that it isn't great already)

    Also I suppose you had to buy 6 pieces as a Minimum required by manufacturer or was it for economies of scale in freight and custom duty? Can you share some figures(Perhaps privately if publicly it is not possible)

  9. #9
    Member H Panni's Avatar
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    Since I have not been able to get my hands on an affordable 22LR in good condition for over a year now, might as well get this thing and save on the ammo cost.

  10. #10
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    I am opting for a .22lr I hpe to get a positive review here on this forum so that I would make the purchase
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by H Panni View Post
    Since I have not been able to get my hands on an affordable 22LR in good condition for over a year now, might as well get this thing and save on the ammo cost.
    Saw a new 22lr Brno BA with Bakhsh Elahi Lahore. Might try that. I can ask around if u wish.

  12. #12
    I m curious.. how long did it take you to write it?
    It's quite evident from the abundance of mistakes in post that it's not a post after drafting and proof reading. Therefore, it did't take that much time. I am good at keyboard keys


    Pre-sisely. While We have done everything possible from using a chrony for figuring out the vilos to vernier calipering 9mm rounds of various brands..

    But this is next level stuff..
    henceforth I declare the 'Thespardian' to be my undisputed guru in all things long winded..
    Being a member of this forum since 2013, i used the keyboard Eight times only. May be the things get lengthy due to frustration --OR-- You may call it my ignorance about the way to sharing the info here. Plz accept my apology.

    I would like to say "Special Thanks" to both of you (Enigmatic Desires and Ali D) for your beautiful (sarcastic) remarks.
    GHOSTS really exists! They often carry an accurate bolt action and related gear.

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    Brother it's very well written and descriptive. I was just giving ED a friendly poke.

    Rora khapa na shi.

  14. #14
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thespardian View Post
    It's quite evident from the abundance of mistakes in post that it's not a post after drafting and proof reading. Therefore, it did't take that much time. I am good at keyboard keys




    Being a member of this forum since 2013, i used the keyboard Eight times only. May be the things get lengthy due to frustration --OR-- You may call it my ignorance about the way to sharing the info here. Plz accept my apology.

    I would like to say "Special Thanks" to both of you (Enigmatic Desires and Ali D) for your beautiful (sarcastic) remarks.
    Thats ok.. A slap on the wrist from my guru jee is to be worn with pride.. But in all seriousness (also fairness) please do write more of em. My knowledge of air weapons is restricted to trying (quite unsuccessfully.. I might add) to pumping a hand pump to generate the necessary bars.. But the total lack of recoil when I shot the weapon. Sweeeettttt....

    This is probably one of the most educational threads on all of PG.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  15. #15
    Brother it's very well written and descriptive. I was just giving ED a friendly poke.

    Rora khapa na shi.
    Seriously! I enjoyed your input guys.
    Actually, I saw some seniors AGs and friends were showing interest in this gun. That's why I dare to share this raw material (not a review). I tried my level best to make the things easier for both types of reader ( some heading and summary at the end for glancer and rest of the story for detail lovers).
    Bof! I make u feel kinda a blah and boed.
    Khapa kedo sa khabara nada roor.

    Good stuff Ali. Keep us updated and some 50 meter and 100 meter group images would be great (Not that it isn't great already)

    Also I suppose you had to buy 6 pieces as a Minimum required by manufacturer or was it for economies of scale in freight and custom duty? Can you share some figures(Perhaps privately if publicly it is not possible)
    Sure bro! I'll send u some pics. But this is not a 100 yards gun. And honestly say, drilling tight holes on paper @100 yards with any airgun is beyond my shooting capability. So I'll share the pics of cards punched from 25 and 50 yards.
    That's not the reason, bro. We purchase it from local dealer. Infact,it was my first PCP in .25 cal ...... uh-ah I am very talkative
    GHOSTS really exists! They often carry an accurate bolt action and related gear.

  16. #16
    Thats ok.. A slap on the wrist from my guru jee is to be worn with pride.. But in all seriousness (also fairness) please do write more of em. My knowledge of air weapons is restricted to trying (quite unsuccessfully.. I might add) to pumping a hand pump to generate the necessary bars.. But the total lack of recoil when I shot the weapon. Sweeeettttt....

    This is probably one of the most educational threads on all of PG.
    When the first comment on this post appeared. I received a massage from an unknown person i.e DON'T FEED THE TROLLS
    Today i received another massage from same person i.e NOM NOM NOM, TROLLY WANT MORE FOOD..........ORO
    GHOSTS really exists! They often carry an accurate bolt action and related gear.

  17. #17
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thespardian View Post
    When the first comment on this post appeared. I received a massage from an unknown person i.e DON'T FEED THE TROLLS
    Today i received another massage from same person i.e NOM NOM NOM, TROLLY WANT MORE FOOD..........ORO
    First and foremost, there are no trolls here at all.. None.. Only orcs!

    2nd, no self respecting orc would go nom nom nom.. its considered un-delicate, ocs only go OOGA OOGA WHUM WHAM..

    3rd, I have started liking PCP weapons, because of their near total lack of recoil and muzzle lift. Would you recommend the Atrimis as a first buy (especially, since I have never successfully managed to pump one up to the max) As in is it feasible considering the sheer volume of elbow grease required?

    Or would you recommend the P 10 or P 12? (Since they are longer I assume they are more accurate)

    Size is not an issue for me since I dont hunt. I just want an accurate long range pea shooter.

    Does the .25's added wight aid in stability of flight? As in make it slightly more accurate?

    the costs of the 3.. which one would be the least expensive one of the trio?

    Any specs? B.A or Semi?

    Finally, the costs?

    Sorry for burdening you with all this info.. But the thing is kay.. I really know next to nothing bout PCPs.. Especially since my sole interest in rifles is solely concerned with making ever tighter groups on paper at increasing distances.
    Would really appricate the help?

    P.S what does that fluctuating heart line thingy denote?
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  18. #18
    Member H Panni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali D View Post
    Saw a new 22lr Brno BA with Bakhsh Elahi Lahore. Might try that. I can ask around if u wish.
    JazakAllah for the generous offer. I can only purchase from KPK Province and Rawalpindi.

    Also despite being a proponent of buying quality and paying the right price for it I have chosen to avoid becoming a willing victim of current unfair market. I know that there is a ban on imports and price trend is partially related to that but I'm also aware that the supply was/is not as tight as the dealers would have us believe. Planes full of weapons were smuggled in during the import ban by influential people. Alas I digress.

  19. #19
    Member H Panni's Avatar
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    thespardian you stopped short of mentioning if u had to sell a kidney or rob a bank for it.

  20. #20
    Member H Panni's Avatar
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    I wonder to what extent sorting/sizing of pellets and polishing the barrel could increase accuracy potential of this PCP Airgun. But that is a topic for another time/thread.

    Impatiently waiting for 25m and 50m performance report.

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