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Thread: 9 mm vs 38 Special vs 357 magnum

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    9 mm vs 38 Special vs 357 magnum

    Just made a internet searc, to my surprise came to know that 9 mm is more powerfull than 38 special. However 357 is the most powerfull among these.

    Comparision between cobra and norinco cf 98
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    Enthusiast TRX's Avatar
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    Modern "defensive" civilian 9mm is loaded *much* hotter than NATO or original German spec ammunition. 40 years ago 9mm and .38 Special were much the same as far as performance.

    Military surplus .30 Tokarev / tees bore / 7.62x25 is more powerful than NATO 9mm, but some defensive loads exceed that. The main problem with the .30 is that you're stuck with military-style full metal jacket, round nose bullets, which are much less effective than hollowpoint 9mm.

    Prvi Partizan in Serbia makes some very nice hollowpoint bullets listed for ".32 ACP" that would make the .30 perform much better.

    As for the .357 Magnum... a company called Coonan in the USA makes a "stretch" version of the 1911 that shoots ordinary rimmed .357. DO WANT. But I'll probably never be able to afford one.

  3. #3
    nice revolver

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    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRX View Post
    Modern "defensive" civilian 9mm is loaded *much* hotter than NATO or original German spec ammunition. 40 years ago 9mm and .38 Special were much the same as far as performance.

    Military surplus .30 Tokarev / tees bore / 7.62x25 is more powerful than NATO 9mm, but some defensive loads exceed that. The main problem with the .30 is that you're stuck with military-style full metal jacket, round nose bullets, which are much less effective than hollowpoint 9mm.

    Prvi Partizan in Serbia makes some very nice hollowpoint bullets listed for ".32 ACP" that would make the .30 perform much better.

    As for the .357 Magnum... a company called Coonan in the USA makes a "stretch" version of the 1911 that shoots ordinary rimmed .357. DO WANT. But I'll probably never be able to afford one.
    A 1911 chambered fro .357.. Its just just does not sound right.. Kinda like egg sandwiches dipped in diet coke. I love both the platforms and would aquire em.. But n their original configerations.. As regards the parvati petrizan pvtoi partizen Oh hell. Pretty pretty partisan.... Thier .30 HPs I have seen. While I have not personally checked their mushrooming capabilities. I have read that at above 1850 fps.. They simply zip though the target without getting a chance to expand properly..
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

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    Enthusiast TRX's Avatar
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    I use the .32 hollowpoints to make "plinking" rounds for my 7.65x53 Mauser. I can't tell you how they expand at .32 ACP velocity, but they'll turn a 3-liter bottle of water into dense fog and plastic shards at 30 meters. The mangled jackets are usually laying near the puddle, but I've never recovered any part of the core... the bullets more or less explode.

    Hmm... you know, I could actually do an experiment. I now own a CZ-52 in 7.62; next time the "discretionary spending fund" contains more than dust and spiderwebs, I'll pick up another box of .32 bullets and a set of 7.62 loading dies. Then we can see how the bullets perform at pistol velocities.

    As for the Coonan .357... that's how I felt when I first saw a Saiga-12. An AK-47 in 12 gauge? Whaaaattt?! Every now and then I come across something so weird, it's like it slipped in from some alternate universe...

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    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRX View Post
    I use the .32 hollowpoints to make "plinking" rounds for my 7.65x53 Mauser. I can't tell you how they expand at .32 ACP velocity, but they'll turn a 3-liter bottle of water into dense fog and plastic shards at 30 meters. The mangled jackets are usually laying near the puddle, but I've never recovered any part of the core... the bullets more or less explode.

    Hmm... you know, I could actually do an experiment. I now own a CZ-52 in 7.62; next time the "discretionary spending fund" contains more than dust and spiderwebs, I'll pick up another box of .32 bullets and a set of 7.62 loading dies. Then we can see how the bullets perform at pistol velocities.

    As for the Coonan .357... that's how I felt when I first saw a Saiga-12. An AK-47 in 12 gauge? Whaaaattt?! Every now and then I come across something so weird, it's like it slipped in from some alternate universe...
    An Ak 47 in 12 gauge raised a lot of eyebrows here too. But then the enterprising lads up country started churning em out by the bucketloads.. Now its 1 of the most common sights with security guards.. with only the huge mags being a dead giveaway.. . Especially the 'one true love of my life' the Vepr. (I strongly recommend it if you run out of bench press equipment)

    As for the .32 in 7.62.. How on earth do U manage to do that? :O

    P.S I am inspired.. I saw a bunch of .32 acp Italian Fiocchi HPs all bunched together and looking forlorn, what with lying in a dusty corner of the shop. I might run a few though my .32 SnW long revolver and see if they actually engage the grooving enough to retain a semblance of accuracy.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

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    Enthusiast TRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Desires View Post
    As for the .32 in 7.62.. How on earth do U manage to do that?
    The .32 ACP is actually .311." So are the 7.62x25, 7.62x39, 7.62x54R, 7.65x53 Mauser, .30 Luger, and .303 British.

    It's not like it's confusing, like back when Colt .38 barrels were .355" and S&W .38 barrels were .356"... or was that the other way around... [eyes glaze over]

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    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRX View Post
    The .32 ACP is actually .311." So are the 7.62x25, 7.62x39, 7.62x54R, 7.65x53 Mauser, .30 Luger, and .303 British.

    It's not like it's confusing, like back when Colt .38 barrels were .355" and S&W .38 barrels were .356"... or was that the other way around... [eyes glaze over]
    Wen I 1st entered the .32 world. All I thought I needed from life was .32 ammo.. I was wrong.. My pewter frame is not meant for the higher pressure .32 acp loads.. but would well with .32 SnW long and is positively sweet on .32 (neither long nor acp) and then there is the .32 magnum kettle of fish.. sheesh.. And now you bout the .311 in the picture.. If I ever take to hand loading. I would probebly blow my fingers off at the first shot.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

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    Enthusiast TRX's Avatar
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    I hope you have a trusted source for the proper ammunition. There's plenty of confusion among the .32 and .38 calibers. The originators of the cartridges certainly didn't make it easy to distinguish between many of them, anyway.

    I have a Remington automatic rifle made in 1914. It is chambered in ".30-30 Remington." But that's a rimless cartridge, not interchangeable with the older .30-30 Winchester, which was the only ".30-30" most people knew. So Remington renamed it ".30 Remington", which then confused people with older Remington rifles trying to find .30-30 Remington. And then they came up with a new ".30 Remington AR", which is a short round designed to fit the AR-15.

    By the way, a really good site for finding out about that sort of thing is www.municion.org.

    Handloading isn't rocket surgery... I managed it with only a book and reasonable care. Nowadays there are whole web forums dedicated to the subject.

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    well with .22lr ammo going well over a dollar a pop.. Its either that or lock away your goodies in layers of cosmoline. (Not that its legal to hand load here to begin with)
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

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    Enthusiast TRX's Avatar
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    There was a thread about handloading a few years ago, where a number of people thought it was illegal in Pakistan. But I don't remember anyone being able to point to a place on .gov.pk that actually says that.

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    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRX View Post
    There was a thread about handloading a few years ago, where a number of people thought it was illegal in Pakistan. But I don't remember anyone being able to point to a place on .gov.pk that actually says that.
    They pick u up and than come up with some rules and regulations.. while you languish behind bars.. Better to err on the side of caution.

    BTW..Based on the destruction of your water container, We are seriously considering a .32 acp for an EDC weapon. Do you think a .32 HP can do the job and think a Llama would fit the bill? Our choices here are restricted to the CZ 83, llama or astra. Me and deathrow popped a llama in the back pocket of our jeans and the darned thing simply disapeared. Its much much smaller than even the Taurus 709 or the CF 98 Mini or the Mak.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

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    Enthusiast TRX's Avatar
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    The way I look at it, a .32 in your pocket is better than a .45 you left at home... and frankly, I doubt anyone looking down the muzzle is going to critique your choice of caliber.

    You don't have much extra power to play with when using a .32. Like the real estate agents say, "Location! Location! Location!" Put in your range time, be alert, and use as many follow-up shots as needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRX View Post
    The way I look at it, a .32 in your pocket is better than a .45 you left at home... and frankly, I doubt anyone looking down the muzzle is going to critique your choice of caliber.

    You don't have much extra power to play with when using a .32. Like the real estate agents say, "Location! Location! Location!" Put in your range time, be alert, and use as many follow-up shots as needed.
    I saw some Hps of this calibre.. In Karachi, the weather tends to be temperate ergo no extra clothing layers.. And your average mugger is just a T shirt-on-a-thin-rib-cage (As per my personal experience)

    I think A couple of center chests .32 is excellent 'vermint' medicine. But then I haveno idea how the llama treats an HP. I am certain the CZ 83 would eat everything u put in her. But then she is kinda big for some really deep concealment carry.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

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    Supreme Member Ashes's Avatar
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    handgun calibers in general aren't man-stoppers, particularly determined adrenaline-fueled attackers.

    So doesn't really matter; if you're not going to get desired results in under 4 shots anyway, why worry about the frivolities?

    carry what suits you.
    Paranoia saves lives...

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    Enthusiast TRX's Avatar
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    Otherwise phrased as "keep shooting until they go down."

    A good technique no matter what caliber you're using.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashes View Post
    handgun calibers in general aren't man-stoppers, particularly determined adrenaline-fueled attackers.

    So doesn't really matter; if you're not going to get desired results in under 4 shots anyway, why worry about the frivolities?

    carry what suits you.
    A very strange new quote....... "handgun calibers in general aren't man-stoppers" ...

    So.... The LEA's are carrying these things as "toys" around their bodies...
    Police in the US are using body cams for the last few years to record the unfortunate events... google them.. and you will find HUGE B.Gs down with only 1 or 2 shots......

    IMO a 30 bore (7.62X19) in the handguns, can even do a good job, specially S&B's JHPS.

    @TRX --- Bro.
    Military surplus .30 Tokarev / tees bore / 7.62x25 is more powerful than NATO 9mm, but some defensive loads exceed that. The main problem with the .30 is that you're stuck with military-style full metal jacket, round nose bullets, which are much less effective than hollowpoint 9mm.

    Unfortunately, .30 Tok was not much developed and commercialized due to its Pol. Origin. But, there are some varieties available now and one I have is S&B JHPS.

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    Supreme Member Ashes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khalil View Post
    A very strange new quote....... "handgun calibers in general aren't man-stoppers" ...

    So.... The LEA's are carrying these things as "toys" around their bodies...
    Police in the US are using body cams for the last few years to record the unfortunate events... google them.. and you will find HUGE B.Gs down with only 1 or 2 shots......
    huge BGs down with 1-2 shots??!! brother come out of Hollywood, it taints the realities of life.

    a handgun is a secondary firearm; something to fall back on as a last resort when the rifle or shotgun is not available. jazbaati mut ho, I did not say they are toys, but wasting so much time and energy on discussing "handgun" calibres when it doesn't mean diddly squat when the time comes, is a joke and i would like to grin at it
    Paranoia saves lives...

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    Our own version of quotes and tests doesn't often get attention at any forums, but we only rely on foreign stuff.... I personally have tested my short barrel (Taurus) and Chinese TT on a brick. Ordinary FMJ standard bullets (124 gr. 9mm and 85 gr. Chinese). The destructive result of a TT is the choice of carrying it, even with low ammo. capacity it is worth carrying. And here are my findings on the net:

    Ballistic test ! 9 mm Vs. 357 Mag Vs. 7.62x25
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6vNTflA4wY
    Bobby Brown


    7.62x25mm vs. IIIA Body Armor

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_3_DBeU_HI
    Military Arms Channel


    Ammo penetration test: 45acp, 357mag, 7.62x25 Tokarev
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZX2xLQWMAU

  20. #20
    Supreme Member pakistanitoup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khalil View Post
    Our own version of quotes and tests doesn't often get attention at any forums, but we only rely on foreign stuff.... I personally have tested my short barrel (Taurus) and Chinese TT on a brick. Ordinary FMJ standard bullets (124 gr. 9mm and 85 gr. Chinese). The destructive result of a TT is the choice of carrying it, even with low ammo. capacity it is worth carrying. And here are my findings on the net:

    Ballistic test ! 9 mm Vs. 357 Mag Vs. 7.62x25
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6vNTflA4wY
    Bobby Brown


    7.62x25mm vs. IIIA Body Armor

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_3_DBeU_HI
    Military Arms Channel


    Ammo penetration test: 45acp, 357mag, 7.62x25 Tokarev
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZX2xLQWMAU
    7.62x25 is a potent round, and its an offensive round rather than defensive use. hollow point in 7.62x25 is way better than a 9mm. .30 bore is a sure killer IMO
    Keep Calm & Carry One

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