Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: A Dangerous Observation Made in Norinco NP42

  1. #1
    Supreme Member Deathrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    1,674

    A Dangerous Observation Made in Norinco NP42

    Asalam o Alaikum All,

    Me and couple of my gun enthusiast friends figured something out about the favorite of all and most recommended pistol at Pakguns, the Norinco NP42.

    Couple of months back, Engmatic Desires (ED) discovered an impact on primer of a chambered bullet (in his NP42 ofcourse) which brought in much of concern from all of us. We tried figuring out what caused that mark but failed. It happened again a month or two later and then again after some time but we were unable to figure out the exact reason that was resulting in the mark made on primer. At some point, the firing pin was pushing against the primer or hitting it with light impact.

    Similar issue was reported by shehroze (who also owns an NP42). He brought the issue into out knowledge and since then we all got really curious as to what is causing this to happen.

    After some investigation, we gave up but Shehroze kept at it continued with his investigation day and night until he figured it all out. He deserves a huge round of applause for figuring out why the impact on primer was occurring.

    If you too own and NP42, you should read through the below mentioned steps (BUT ONLY IF YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT EXPERIENCE IN FIRE ARMS HANDLING)

    BIG NOTE: ALL OF THE BELOW MENTIONED STEPS ARE TO BE DONE KEEPING A GUN IN SAFE DIRECTION

    1. Insert the magazine in a clear weapon and chamber it,
    2. Take the magazine out
    3. Decock the weapon and engage manual safety by pushing the safety/decocker notch down. This will decock the weapon and also engage the manual safety
    4. Disengage the manual safety by pushing the safety/ decocker notch up
    5. Now pull the slide back to release the chambered round without pulling the half cocked hammer with your thumb, let the slide push the hammer back.
    6. You will observe a light impact mark on primer on the ejected bullet

    So basically what is happening is that when you pull back the slide on half cocked hammer, the hammer is pushing against the firing pin which is pushing on the primer and creating an impact mark. The same was tried on several NP 42's and they were all doing the same.

    However no occurrence of discharge was observed. None of the bullets fired which were impacted this way BUT I am not claiming that this impact will not discharge rounds. The Ammo used for this observation was Norinco Red Boxx and S&B.

    I tried doing the same on my Sarsilmaz, Kilinc 2000 but it does happen on that pistol. The hammer is shaped in such a way that when you pull back the slide, it doesn't push against the firing pin.

    Also few CF98's were tried and the problem was again not observed on them.

    Name:  20161128_194737.jpg
Views: 1276
Size:  63.3 KB
    This is an S&B round which we tried 3 times and all three times the primer was impacted by the firing pin

    Name:  IMG-20161120-WA0006.jpg
Views: 1275
Size:  52.2 KB
    This is PRVI ammo I think, a friend tried same thing on his NP42 and impact on primers was observed

    Name:  IMG-20161128-WA0000.jpg
Views: 1271
Size:  28.3 KB
    Similar observation on China red box 9mm Ammo


    Name:  IMG-20161128-WA0007.jpg
Views: 1280
Size:  35.3 KB
    The problem is clearly visible in the picture above, the hammer is pushing against the firing pin when slide is being racked back.

    For the safety of all, I thought that it is absolutely necessary to bring this observation into lime light
    "There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous men."

  2. #2
    Member Extraordinaire ajmal virk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    HafizAbad/Lahore
    Posts
    3,629
    Yes i was somehow part of this exercise me and Shahroze did same rehearsal on my CF and his NP later on we found mechanisms are different and CF is not imparting any marks but the magnitude of mark is high and it could lead to discharge anytime as market is full of fake ammo and there is no warranty that fake ammo would withstand such a strike so be careful all NP42 holders

  3. #3
    Supreme Member Deathrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    1,674
    Hehehe, Yes...Brother Virk was part of this project too...Also Skywatcher and Textile Doctor...
    "There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous men."

  4. #4
    Supreme Member pakistanitoup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    ISB/RWP
    Posts
    2,267
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathrow View Post
    Asalam o Alaikum All,

    Me and couple of my gun enthusiast friends figured something out about the favorite of all and most recommended pistol at Pakguns, the Norinco NP42.

    Couple of months back, Engmatic Desires (ED) discovered an impact on primer of a chambered bullet (in his NP42 ofcourse) which brought in much of concern from all of us. We tried figuring out what caused that mark but failed. It happened again a month or two later and then again after some time but we were unable to figure out the exact reason that was resulting in the mark made on primer. At some point, the firing pin was pushing against the primer or hitting it with light impact.

    Similar issue was reported by shehroze (who also owns an NP42). He brought the issue into out knowledge and since then we all got really curious as to what is causing this to happen.

    After some investigation, we gave up but Shehroze kept at it continued with his investigation day and night until he figured it all out. He deserves a huge round of applause for figuring out why the impact on primer was occurring.

    If you too own and NP42, you should read through the below mentioned steps (BUT ONLY IF YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT EXPERIENCE IN FIRE ARMS HANDLING)

    BIG NOTE: ALL OF THE BELOW MENTIONED STEPS ARE TO BE DONE KEEPING A GUN IN SAFE DIRECTION

    1. Insert the magazine in a clear weapon and chamber it,
    2. Take the magazine out
    3. Decock the weapon and engage manual safety by pushing the safety/decocker notch down. This will decock the weapon and also engage the manual safety
    4. Disengage the manual safety by pushing the safety/ decocker notch up
    5. Now pull the slide back to release the chambered round without pulling the half cocked hammer with your thumb, let the slide push the hammer back.
    6. You will observe a light impact mark on primer on the ejected bullet

    So basically what is happening is that when you pull back the slide on half cocked hammer, the hammer is pushing against the firing pin which is pushing on the primer and creating an impact mark. The same was tried on several NP 42's and they were all doing the same.

    However no occurrence of discharge was observed. None of the bullets fired which were impacted this way BUT I am not claiming that this impact will not discharge rounds. The Ammo used for this observation was Norinco Red Boxx and S&B.

    I tried doing the same on my Sarsilmaz, Kilinc 2000 but it does happen on that pistol. The hammer is shaped in such a way that when you pull back the slide, it doesn't push against the firing pin.

    Also few CF98's were tried and the problem was again not observed on them.

    Name:  20161128_194737.jpg
Views: 1276
Size:  63.3 KB
    This is an S&B round which we tried 3 times and all three times the primer was impacted by the firing pin

    Name:  IMG-20161120-WA0006.jpg
Views: 1275
Size:  52.2 KB
    This is PRVI ammo I think, a friend tried same thing on his NP42 and impact on primers was observed

    Name:  IMG-20161128-WA0000.jpg
Views: 1271
Size:  28.3 KB
    Similar observation on China red box 9mm Ammo


    Name:  IMG-20161128-WA0007.jpg
Views: 1280
Size:  35.3 KB
    The problem is clearly visible in the picture above, the hammer is pushing against the firing pin when slide is being racked back.

    For the safety of all, I thought that it is absolutely necessary to bring this observation into lime light
    very nice dear. same happens in free floating firing pins too when we add and eject rounds. in this case there is minor misalignment in the hammer or the firing pin is a bit long IMO.
    "Name:  IMG-20161120-WA0006.jpg
Views: 1275
Size:  52.2 KB
    This is PRVI ammo I think, a friend tried same thing on his NP42 and impact on primers was observed
    " dear this is Barnaul 9mm ammo not PRVI(PPU) ammo
    Keep Calm & Carry One

  5. #5
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    17,384
    We did think of shortening the firing pin a bit, then decided against it because the chances are that it would give light strikes thereby rendering the weapon un-reliable. A definite No no in my opinion.
    However. I un chamber wiht the hammer in the back position. My NP is simply too stiff for me to un-chamber with hammer half cocked anyway.

    But Kudos to Deathrow for sharing it on the forum.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  6. #6
    Supreme Member Deathrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    1,674
    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Desires View Post
    We did think of shortening the firing pin a bit, then decided against it because the chances are that it would give light strikes thereby rendering the weapon un-reliable. A definite No no in my opinion.
    However. I un chamber wiht the hammer in the back position. My NP is simply too stiff for me to un-chamber with hammer half cocked anyway.

    But Kudos to Deathrow for sharing it on the forum.
    No way we should try to mess around with the firing pin unless and until we have some kind of firm conclusion and couple of spare firing pins available for experimentation.
    "There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous men."

  7. #7
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    17,384
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathrow View Post
    No way we should try to mess around with the firing pin unless and until we have some kind of firm conclusion and couple of spare firing pins available for experimentation.
    Speaking of which, I am curious are there any actual imported CF 98 or NP 42 firing pins available or do we have to hav em made by the local gunsmiths?
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  8. #8
    Supreme Member Deathrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    1,674
    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Desires View Post
    Speaking of which, I am curious are there any actual imported CF 98 or NP 42 firing pins available or do we have to hav em made by the local gunsmiths?
    I doubt if there are any... have never seen or heard of one in the market.
    "There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous men."

  9. #9
    I think the problem lues with the firing pin block. If its working properly the fring pin should not move and put a mark on the primer. Disassemble ur pistol and try to push the firing pin and without disengaging the fring pin block. If it protrudes than there is a problem which should be rectified.

  10. #10
    My cf 98 does not put a mark while racking it in half cocked mode

  11. #11
    Supreme Member Deathrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    1,674
    Quote Originally Posted by drsmali View Post
    I think the problem lues with the firing pin block. If its working properly the fring pin should not move and put a mark on the primer. Disassemble ur pistol and try to push the firing pin and without disengaging the fring pin block. If it protrudes than there is a problem which should be rectified.
    I think the firing pin block disengages when the slide is pulled back...not sure though...under usual circumstances, the firing pin block is working just fine...
    "There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous men."

  12. #12
    It should not disengage by pulling the slide back. Than whats the use of it. It should only disengage when trigger is pulled. Get it checked by a gunsmith

  13. #13
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    17,384
    Quote Originally Posted by drsmali View Post
    It should not disengage by pulling the slide back. Than whats the use of it. It should only disengage when trigger is pulled. Get it checked by a gunsmith
    Actually we have tried the same on a number of NP 42 pieces. Some NIB some used. By and large they have this issue. Though the CF 98 does not.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  14. #14
    @ed
    Can u post pics of the firing pin block.

  15. #15
    Senior Moderator Denovo87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Sialkot
    Posts
    7,073
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by drsmali View Post
    I think the problem lues with the firing pin block. If its working properly the fring pin should not move and put a mark on the primer. Disassemble ur pistol and try to push the firing pin and without disengaging the fring pin block. If it protrudes than there is a problem which should be rectified.
    Exactly; NP42's producing such marks must have something wrong with firing pin safety. Best way to check if firing pin safety working perfectly is to try pushing firing pin forward (without mag or round in chamber and with hammer cocked back) without pressing/touching the trigger.
    Keep your fears to yourself, but share your courage with others.

  16. #16
    Supreme Member Deathrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    1,674
    Quote Originally Posted by Denovo87 View Post
    Exactly; NP42's producing such marks must have something wrong with firing pin safety. Best way to check if firing pin safety working perfectly is to try pushing firing pin forward (without mag or round in chamber and with hammer cocked back) without pressing/touching the trigger.
    Denovo, the firing pin blocks just fine normally, the problem is only occurring when the slide is pulled back...at that point I think the firing pin block is not functioning...
    "There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous men."

  17. #17
    Think that with the np 42 the firing pin block Must be protuding out of the slide. So when the slide is beeing racked it is pushed upward resulting the firing pin safety is disengaged and the semi cocked hammer pushes the firing pin forward.post some pics if the firing pin block.

  18. #18

    Light strike marks even if hammer fully cocked

    I always empty the chamber with hammer fully cocked. light scrarches are visible (about 10 cycles)
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  19. #19
    Supreme Member Fraz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Pindi / Attock
    Posts
    2,318
    I have a CF 98 which I bought back in 2011, it puts a slight dent in the primer, as discussed above, but never has it caused an inadvertent shot. I have been told by senior and experienced member that weapons with free floating firing pins have this issue, as per him its nothing to worry about. However, I always point the weapon in a safe direction when loading / unloading a round into / out of the chamber. Regards
    Before you embark on a journey of Revenge, dig two graves - Confucius (504 BC)
    102nd Chairborne Rangers, Special Forums Operator Delta, The Keyboard Commandos

  20. #20
    Repeat procedure holding gun upside down. If there is no dimple than its a faulty firing pin block.
    @faraz cf 98 does not have a free floating firing pin. Makarov have free floating pins.
    Earlier cf 98 do not have this problem

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •