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Thread: A bullet with our name: De-weaponising Pakistan will not be easy

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mian Jee View Post
    مائی لارڈ ۔ جوتے مارے جائیں ۔
    جوتے سے مراد لتّر ہے ۔ ہاں ہمیں لتّر مارے جائیں ۔ اٹھارہ نمبر کا ٹھیک رہے گا ۔
    دو سے کام نہیں بنے گاکم از کم پنجہ لگا یا جائے ۔
    قانون کے تقاضےپورے ہونے دیں اور بالکل رحم نہ کریں ۔
    الٹا لٹا کرجوتے مارے جائیں ۔
    تھانوں کو حکم دیا جائے کہ وہ اپنے اپنے علاقے کے ہر صاحب شعور پاکستانی کوتھانے طلب کرے اور اس اصلاحی پروگرام پرعملدرآمد یقینی بنائے ۔
    اگر پولیس کی نفری کم پڑ جائےتو صحت مند وکلاءکی خدمات حاصل کی جائیں ۔

    جناب عالی ! میری عدالت کے روبرو درخواست ہےکہ آپ اس مہم کی خود رہنمائی فرمائیں ۔
    مجھ سےشروع کرلیں ۔
    مجھے بھی باشعور ہونے کا خمار چڑھارہتا ہے ۔
    آپ اپنے مبارک ہاتھوں سے سات راتوں سےتیل میں بھگو یا ہوا جوتا پکڑیں اور پورے زور سےشروع ہوجائیں ۔
    مائی لارڈ میں اوندھے منہ لیٹ چکاہوں ۔
    بسم اللہ
    I m unable to understand Mian jee is it ur desire or information.however in both cases we WL never disappoint u.Although because of Eid police is heavily deployed since security concerns but lawyers r available and ready to obey as per above order

  2. #42
    Mr. Sadatpk, it not only Mian jee desire but every sensible Pakistani deserve it in current judiciary system.
    a_rsoud. "Owning a gun doesn't make you a murderer anymore than owning a guitar makes your a guitarist"..

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by malik94 View Post
    considering the law and order situation in Pakistan ,the increasing crime rate and the complete ineptness of the LEA's in protecting the lives and wealth of the people .I think that outright banning firearms is outrageous.The government should first take stern action against all political parties including their own because almost all the criminal organizations in Pakistan involved in land grabbing,extortion and kidnapping for ransom etc either work directly for politicians or atleast have some sort of political support.regarding the policy for keeping npb firearms thier should be no restrictions except that the government should make pshycological tests, background checks, license computerization ,basic training and tests for firearm safety mandatory. Owning p.b weapons should be allowed for everyone but the owners should only be allowed to keep them inside safes in government registered gun ranges and/or police stations but no where else .so owners can use them only for recreational use, competitive shooting and target practice only. The Government should increase liscence issuing and renewal fee to finance all the things that I mentioned they can even allow international gun manufacturers to do buisness in Pakistan like they do in the united states. they would be more than willing to help the government finance this as Pakistan has such a large gun market p.s this will bring down prices aswell and will be beneficial to the economy. smuggling ,illegal trade of firearms and using guns for any other purpose except use in ranges and SD/HD should be sternly dealt with.I know my ideas sound to far-fetched considering we live in Pakistan.but imho all these measures will mean that only sane,responsible and law-abiding citizens will be able to keep guns.
    Kudos to You Brother.
    i applaud your sense of understanding.
    Cheers

  4. #44
    Stripping the right of the public to bear arms to protect themselves against social injustice and at the same time doing nothing to stop the corruption and crime in general is akin to leaving the public to fend for itself.Which is maddening considering the same public makes up the government what it is.
    food for thought.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by shahroze View Post
    First of all. Forming an organization that is going to fight of our rights and only promote legal ans safe use of firearms is very important. That organization will moniter gun license and will lay down certain rules and regulations for those who can get firearms.
    Those with psychological disorders will not be granted license.
    Those with Criminal record of any sort including violence theft and vandalism shall not be granted license.
    Those who have any cases against them in any court shall not be granted license.
    Those who have borrowed big sum of money and have not repaid or are in debt shall not be issued license.
    Application will be sent to Police station who will verify the persons background from neighbors, family and other sources than it will be processed further
    Those who are eligible for license
    Hunters, showing valid proof that they hunt getting all hunting permits sorted out then getting arms license.
    Collectors, Showing genuine interest in collecting firearms, This will be judged after checking the net income and status of living.
    Sports, Who have registered themselves in gun clubs and participate in regional, national level games.

    Individuals who want to get the license must register themselves with the association.

    Education is awareness and courses like the NCC or whatever it was called where students had to fire guns.
    Media should play positive role and programs teaching gun laws and ethics should be aired. Children from a very young age should be taught firearms are not toys.

    Basic rules
    Always point in safe direction
    Treat every gun as loaded
    finger off trigger
    Always look behind left and right of your target
    Only point where you plan to shoot

    ID cards should be incorporated with Vehicle license number, driving license number and weapon license number.
    Online system verification of checking all of the above in one go.

    certain areas where weapons are Totally not allowed, Near courts, Parliaments, Police stations, public transport places.
    You can't carry weapon in these places.

    Children from a very young age are taught porn and drugs are bad just like that gun rights and laws should be taught.
    Situational awareness should be taught.
    If this does not work. Ban them
    But kindly tell me weed and powder are totally banned are they still not available to the general public?
    If you see history when ever countries were weaponized bloody massacres followed.....
    Brother i totally agree with your reasoning.
    and brother in the last line
    didnt u mean 'de-weaponised'?

  6. #46
    Great Post. Good Luck with Regulating and implementing this law in practice through police efforts.

    There is a Law in place against discharging a weapon in an urban environment. (Implementation problem)

    The problem is that as a person (Bystander/Observer) witnessing such an act (of firing a weapon) is so alluring that it makes a person (witness-er) just stand there and genuflect at the marvelous sight. whereas we should stand up and start reporting such activity to the police (at least make an effort). In a developed country like usa/canada/uk etc people call 911. It is our duty to make stand up and report such activity before someone gets hurt. As a nation if we dont want to change how can we help ourselves and be expected to be helped out. we need to change our attitude as a nation.

    This era (age) of Pakistan is what i tag as the wild west age of Pakistan. similar to the cowboy/wild west era, where gun ownership was common, the didn't help you much (so you had to have a firearm), every second person could possibly be a robber or a dacoit, people weren't that well educated etc. (you are quite familiar with the social problems of the ear). this is the kind of the same transitions period Pakistan is going through. and Pakistan will see the dawn of a educated future.


    If you speak to illiterate gun owner (my presumption would he doesn't have a license) they have a perception that the projectile just vanishes in mid air and it will not come back to earth. (EDUCATION)/(ILLEGAL GUN OWNERSHIP). A practice unseen in legal and educated gun owners.

    All accidents (aerial firing) are a result of a very specific firearm, the pistol. There are hardly any accidents involving long guns. There is hardly any illegal possession of a long gun (hard to carry and also conceal). Pistol can be concealed easily and therefore acquired illegally. In the 40'S 50'S AND THE 60'S the DC office reserved the privilege to refuse a citizen to bear a pistol (logic being why do we have the police and the law in place). Whereas long guns were never discouraged (hunting sporting etc).

    Why do you think they are making NADRA firearms id cards? To limit gun ownership? TO STOP ILLEGAL GUN OWNERSHIP.

    The government should put a ban on all automatic firearms.

    Gun ownership in Pakistan is not new. my great grandfather had guns so did my grandfather whoever; this is a new unique problem which requires a different tactile approach.
    Personally i have stared to believe that the idea of DE-weaponizing the civilian population must have been ignited by a foreign agent, whose sole indent is to make sure that the civilian population stays DE-weaponized; therefore making it easier for the foreign troops to manage civilians after they have vanquished the armed forced (LOLZ.)

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by a_rsoud View Post
    Mr. Sadatpk, it not only Mian jee desire but every sensible Pakistani deserve it in current judiciary system.
    I know just joking Mian jee for his one smile.he is gem of persons infact.

  8. #48
    Senior Moderator 12GAUGE's Avatar
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    AoA Guys.

    read somewhere a long time ago: "owning a gun doesn't make you a murderer anymore than owning a guitar makes your a guitarist".

    Hence, we do need to de-weaponize Pakistan of illegal and unregistered firearms. similarly, we also need to abolish MNA and MPA quotas because this quota system of the privileged class only generates ungrateful and irresponsible gun owners.

    in my extremely limited understanding of the subject, introduction of a proper merit based licensing system should be adopted where anybody could get a firearms license regardless of their class or social standing. such a system would definitely ensure that only sound minded and responsible citizens become gun owners.

    as far as merit is concerned, I am no expert but from the top of my mind I can think of a few things on which the merit system should be based on:

    1. sound mindedness (psychological evaluation)
    a complete psych evaluation. to screen out anyone with suicidal or homicidal or otherwise trouble-cidle tendencies. lols!

    2. background check (police verification)
    no previous criminal record, no record of any suspicious activity or no record of any family duels or no known gang or clan associations.

    3. credible reason (in-depth interview by a magistrate)
    applicant must give a valid reason. aerial firing on weddings or to show off in front of friends and family are not valid reasons.

    4. Neighbor's approval (two or more neighbors must approve)
    Neighbors must approve and testify of the personal character of the applicant. THIS IS A TOUGH ONE.

    5. Firearm owner's guarantee (two or more firearms owners must give their personal guarantee)
    two firearms owners in applicant's circle must give their personal guarantee that the applicant is a person of sound mind and character. THIS IS A TOUGH ONE.

    6. Educational Qualification (minimum 14yrs of education)
    a person's education tells alot about a person. plus an educated firearm owner is a careful firearm owner.

    7. Age Limit (25 yrs or older)
    to select mature firearms owners with predictable emotional responses.

    8. Health (physically fit, proper eyesight and whatnot)

    9. Firearms Hazard and Safety Course (conducted by police for applicants)
    a short course conducted by police to ensure that applicant knows how to operate and safely keep a firearms without injuring anyone else.

    10. legal rights and action course (conducted by district bar association)
    a short course by district bar association to ensure that applicant knows his legal rights (limits) in various situations involving firearms and how to legally protect himself/herself in the worst case scenario and what best course of action of take in the event of a firearm use.

    11. declaration of source of income / Return Filer
    this will ensure that only those people will get a license whose source of income is documented and they pay their taxes. applicant must have filed returns for the last 5 years without any lapse.

    12. certification from local rifle association
    local NRA/FRA/PRA/PARA (whichever applicable) must give their recommendation regarding what type of weapon/license applicant deserves or whether applicant doesn't deserve to have a weapon in the first place.

    Like I said, I am no expert but I think anyone who goes through such a rigorous selection process should be given whatever type of license or weapon he/she desires.

    Regards.
    "The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave."
    James Burgh, Political Disquisitions, 1774

  9. #49
    Nice suggestions Mr. 12 Gauage. if Govt seriously work on it lots of problem would be solved.
    a_rsoud. "Owning a gun doesn't make you a murderer anymore than owning a guitar makes your a guitarist"..

  10. #50
    Enthusiast malik94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geniusmaniac View Post
    Stripping the right of the public to bear arms to protect themselves against social injustice and at the same time doing nothing to stop the corruption and crime in general is akin to leaving the public to fend for itself.Which is maddening considering the same public makes up the government what it is.
    food for thought.
    Absolutely correct brother a country where only LEA's have guns is considered a police state. Furthermore Banning guns is especially worrying in Pakistan Considering our overly trigger-happy and politicized police .
    "morior invictus" (Death before defeat )

  11. #51
    Enthusiast skywalker233's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malik94 View Post
    Absolutely correct brother a country where only LEA's have guns is considered a police state. Furthermore Banning guns is especially worrying in Pakistan Considering our overly trigger-happy and politicized police .
    You're such a funny guy but shouldn't this be in the Jokes thread.
    "One eye man a king in blind man country"
    No matter how bad your situation seems, there is always another for whom things are worse.

  12. #52
    Just wanted to bring this sentence to my fellow pakgunrunners attention

    "Every day we pick up a newspaper and read about the senseless killings that take place in the cities and towns across this country. We read about Qasim and Hamza, shake our heads and we put the paper down and go back to our lives."

    REALLY..!!!! Does Aerial Firing really kill at least a person a day? It kind of seems like, as projected by the article that 3 people must die everyday as a consequence of aerial firing which accounts for a total of 1095 people a year.

    What about people in the rural poor area (can barely afford to buy a descent lunch can't definitely afford to buy a gun) KILL with the intent of killing (NOT ACCIDENTAL) using guns? most murder cases of such kind involve axe's, batons, pikes, daggers, knives, poison etc.
    Above all, my oblivious friends you have no idea about how ruthless a "PAINDU" is.


    Last edited by beretta8; 21-07-2015 at 07:38 PM.

  13. #53
    Enthusiast malik94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywalker233 View Post
    You're such a funny guy but shouldn't this be in the Jokes thread.
    Thanks if you find if funny.you have my permission to put it there.come young luke Skywalke. I see that you have already joined the darkside cause you want guns to be banned!
    Last edited by malik94; 21-07-2015 at 08:54 PM.
    "morior invictus" (Death before defeat )

  14. #54
    Senior Member Mastermind's Avatar
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    thats not going to happen so why waste time to talk about it. not possible

  15. #55
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    I think we should come to logic rather than being personel pls,
    Dear Pak gunners you are known for ur etiquettes in the world being closely knit community

  16. #56
    Lord of War Survivalist's Avatar
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    Dear Skywalker, I completely agree with your suggestion to de-weaponize Pakistani nation (IFF) and that we are already very vulnerable due to corruption, terrorism, dirty politics etc, BUTT the only thing that remains as deterrance between us and enemy is something you anti-gun guys believe we made to play with, me lord, NO and it is a BIG NO, we will use it when time will come. They have taken all but our pride and self respect (a little was left after raiwand daoos incident and what he spitted after he was set loose), and a resilliant armed nation which will fight till last drop of blood in the way of independence and will prefer honorable death to slavery. Please come back only when you have de-weaponized all enemies of the state, nation and the public including all terrorist organizations, dacoits, snackers and stealers, atrocious landlords and so-called politicians, corrupt police and political, land and drug mafias etc etc. I will be contented than to hunt with my bow and arrow, spear, fishing kit, net and knife. Taking my weapon before is like depriving my pride so I warn you can only do so when my body is dead cold.
    All That Is Necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing!

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12GAUGE View Post

    1. sound mindedness (psychological evaluation)
    a complete psych evaluation. to screen out anyone with suicidal or homicidal or otherwise trouble-cidle tendencies. lols!
    (Very easy to fake.You need a few months of Physcologist meetings to help form even a opion.Most physcopaths can fool even the best trained of professionals)

    2. background check (police verification)
    no previous criminal record, no record of any suspicious activity or no record of any family duels or no known gang or clan associations.
    (Without a comprehensive background data base for at least previous 15 years on each applicants,it is impossible.Also my clan is about 800000 and lives in 2 countries.I cannot be judged by that)

    3. credible reason (in-depth interview by a magistrate)
    applicant must give a valid reason. aerial firing on weddings or to show off in front of friends and family are not valid reasons.
    (Totally agree but how hard is to write "protection")

    4. Neighbor's approval (two or more neighbors must approve)
    Neighbors must approve and testify of the personal character of the applicant. THIS IS A TOUGH ONE.
    (In india they do someting similar,but all upper caste get licenses)

    5. Firearm owner's guarantee (two or more firearms owners must give their personal guarantee)
    two firearms owners in applicant's circle must give their personal guarantee that the applicant is a person of sound mind and character. THIS IS A TOUGH ONE.
    (Not really as it is not practical.Do you want to go to jail if your buddy decides to fire a few shots in the air or at someone)

    6. Educational Qualification (minimum 14yrs of education)
    a person's education tells alot about a person. plus an educated firearm owner is a careful firearm owner.
    (Is my law degree from University of london any less than a PHD from Vehari university?)

    7.Age Limit (25 yrs or older)to select mature firearms owners with predictable emotional responses.
    (Agree with age limit but not the premise)

    8. Health (physically fit, proper eyesight and whatnot)
    (Thankfully all doctors in pakistan are honest registered and brimming with morals to make sure that only healthy people own arms)

    9. Firearms Hazard and Safety Course (conducted by police for applicants)
    a short course conducted by police to ensure that applicant knows how to operate and safely keep a firearms without injuring anyone else.
    (With 1 policeman per 485 citizen we are already behind curve on what police actually should be doing,i fail to see anything practical happening albeit certification factories running out of every police station)

    10. legal rights and action course (conducted by district bar association)
    a short course by district bar association to ensure that applicant knows his legal rights (limits) in various situations involving firearms and how to legally protect himself/herself in the worst case scenario and what best course of action of take in the event of a firearm use.
    (Not even remotely possible teaching people how to get away with murder is not actually a good thing)

    11. declaration of source of income / Return Filer
    this will ensure that only those people will get a license whose source of income is documented and they pay their taxes. applicant must have filed returns for the last 5 years without any lapse.
    (Millionaires commit murders too)

    12. certification from local rifle association
    local NRA/FRA/PRA/PARA (whichever applicable) must give their recommendation regarding what type of weapon/license applicant deserves or whether applicant doesn't deserve to have a weapon in the first place.
    (How do they know me?)


    .
    Answers in red
    There are only TWO times when you can have too much ammo... When you are on fire or when you are drowning...

  18. #58
    Supreme Member
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    Create a shadow NRA(Registered with a charter of intend)
    Fund it(I can buy a 300k pistol but cannot pay my dues of 3k LOLWUT)
    Become political(MPAs MNAs also love guns)
    Find a voice(Blogs,websites,corner meetings)
    There are only TWO times when you can have too much ammo... When you are on fire or when you are drowning...

  19. #59
    Member Extraordinaire ajmal virk's Avatar
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    One of our respected brother was mentioning 911 and we have very active 15 it happened to me yesterday as I was sleeping in my home after offering Fajar some one called my brother that police is looking for Mr.Ajmal as some one called on 15 that Ajmal is doing hell of arial firing and DPO HFD have ordered him to arrest him I was shocked and I called my friends in police and they told me not to get arrested before my friend s arrive and in 15 minutes one SI and two constables were in our guest and kept on asking to present Ajmal and funny part is that I was tha guy he was asking to present Ajmal lols but kept on smiling and SI was telling that Mr.Ajmal is very dangerous guy and he has many "walaiti" guns I said okay you people eat and drink few things and I will present that terrorist to you in 30 mins they said okay we will take tea and gourmet biscuits I said okay after 30 mins I told them when my friends were with me that I am the guy you are looking for SI was shocked and said no you can not be I showed him my ID card he said ooh someone has made a wrong call he asked did you fire anya rounds today I said not today but I usually do fire rounds out my village but not in air then he told me the guy who played with me and he said that guy told police that Ajmal have many illegal guns I showed him 9 NADRA letters he said okay you must be gun lover I said yes I am hunter actually he said oh man you should near police sataion there are so many partridge we will eat together and he did not ask for money but I gifted him 3 Levi,s shirts and he was very happy.So bro a call on 15 is mostly misused in Pakistan and can put you in deep shit as they never take action against the wrong caller other aspect s that keeping guns is now becoming hard.

  20. #60
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    Ajmal sb whole credit goes to Akhter Saeed arms who gave you licensed weapons

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