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Thread: Competitive Shooting / Marksmanship Thread

  1. #21
    That's the point. Spread enough awareness and inject such an interest in this sport that the demand gets created and when we have demand, we'll see new ranges / shooting clubs popping up all across the country.

    One way of starting here is that whoever does target practice, should post his results (and pics) and share his experience with everyone (be it with pistol or rifle) and our senior marksmen like Skeeters and Munir may observe and give valuable tips and suggestions.

    Moreover, city-wise PG members should gather their resources (references/contacts) and try to hold monthly GTGs at either PNS Karsaz Shooting range OR some other make-shift range at a farm/agri land on the outskirts of their respective cities where it is relatively easy to shoot without any problem. Then each member can post his results here and share them with everyone.

    We can also have one or two senior members who are good at Markmanship assigned for each city and who could guide the other shooters within that city and identify and correct their mistakes.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Sami's Avatar
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    A-O-A, A much needed thread. Due to lack of information and interest in target shooting at firing ranges, we stumbled to aerial firing.Other than that only option left to check our weapons or enjoy shooting is hunt, once again its not for every one. The Idea is to promote a culture and sport of target shooting. Hope to have a lot of information and positive guidance from our senior Members.
    Take care A-H
    A horse gallops with his lungs, perseveres with his heart and wins with his character.

  3. #23
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    Thank you I would love to be of help.
    There are following Events.
    Air Rifle 10 meters
    Air Pistol 10m
    Free Pistol 50 meters
    Standard Pistol 25m
    Rapid Fire Pistol 25 m
    Centre Fire Pistol 25m
    Three Position Rifle 50m
    Prone 50m
    Trap shot gun Match
    Double trap
    Skeet
    Big bore Pistol25m
    Big bore Rifle 300m
    Scoped Rifle 300m

    These are the matches which are shot in the following competitions;
    National Shooting Championships
    NATIONAL games
    SAF Shooting
    CISM Shooting (Armed Forces Only
    Chief of Naval Staff Open championships
    PARA Matches (Pakistan Army Rifle Association) Organises and encourages a lot of civillian shooters in a number of matches
    for the Rapid Fire Pistol,The Standard Pistol a .22 LR pistol is used with a minimum trigger wt of 1000 grammes for these two events. The pistol must confirm to certain rules and regs and fit in a box for dimensional rules,.
    Pistols used in these two events all over Pakistan and the world are as under;
    Walther GSP
    Walther SSP
    Pardini
    Hammerli SP 20
    Hammerli280
    Fienwerbau
    Morini
    Pardini is leading in popularity in the Rapid Fire.

    Standard Pistol Event.
    Range 25 m

    Standing with Pistol arm extended at 45 degree angle
    First Series.
    5 shots are fired in 150 seconds on the same target. This is done a total of 4 times for a total of 20 rds
    Second Series .
    5 Shots are fired in 20 seconds . This is done a total of 4 times for a total of 20 shots.
    Third Series.
    5 Shots are fired in 10 seconds repeated a total oof 4 times for a total of 20 shots.
    The total score of 60 shots makesthe aggregate score.
    Shooting is done with one hand.

    RAPID FIRE PISTOL 25 m
    First series
    5 shots are fired in 8 seconds at five different targets one shot on each, this is repeated for a total of 20 shots

    Second Series
    5 Shots are fired on the same five targets in a time of 6 seconds, this is done 4 times for a total of 20 shots

    Third Series
    5 Shots are fired in a total of 4 seconds on five targets one shot on each
    target. this is done four times for a total of 20 shots,
    Total score of the 60 shots makes the aggregate.
    Shooting Position is the Pistol hand extended
    and lowered to 45 degrees from the horizontal plane.
    I used to win both events from 1985 to 1997 without hitch and held National Records for both till then and many years later.
    After retirement and lack of range facility at Lahore it is hard to catch up with shooters from the Army and Navy and Air force who are giving a great performance.
    Dr Inam Ullah Khan Gandapur's name has to be mentioned when pistol shooting is talked about He is the greatest in Free pistol fired from 50m and also in Air Pistol and some one to be feared in all other Pistol and Rifle Long Range Matches
    If there is interest I will give details of other matches, the finer rules and details and then training tips as well
    JU

  4. #24
    Thanks for the detailed info Skeeters. Really appreciate the effort.

    I would be interested to know more about the following events with respect to their being held in Karachi:

    1) Air Rifle 10 meters

    2) Standard Pistol 25m

    3) Three Position Rifle 50m

    4) Prone 50m (I presume it is also rifle)

    Moreover, which of these are held in Karachi and from where can I get information for the upcoming following events / competitions:

    1) National Shooting Championships

    2) NATIONAL games

    3) SAF Shooting

    4) Chief of Naval Staff Open championships

    Also, can a civilian like me participate in the above four competitions?

  5. #25
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    Salah ud din Ayubi Sahab and Idrees Taj Sahab
    I am indeed indebted and grateful to you this is a great thread and I appreciate your idea this will initiate a lot of learning as well as provide an oppurtunity to people to fire on safe ranges instaed of in the air if they do get attracted to this type of shooting.
    Some one said Bulls Eye Shooting is the Mother of all Shooting. Unless you shoot on paper forget about ever touching a BG. The sweetest pleasure comes from touching a real murderous BG from a range of 600m
    JU

  6. #26
    Senior Member Sami's Avatar
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    = If there is interest I will give details of other matches, the finer rules and details and then training tips as well
    A-O-A, Thanks Sir Skeeter for the most desirable information. About finer rules and details do share with us if possible at the forum. Appreciate your will to promote this sport. Thanks and regards.A-H
    A horse gallops with his lungs, perseveres with his heart and wins with his character.

  7. #27
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    Dear SA Sahab
    All matches as mentioned by you are held there. Please become a member of Karsaz Navy Shooting Club and also of the Sindh Rifle Association.
    These gentlemen will guide you and I will then tell you which weapons to purchase and which disciplines to pursue, it is very serious game and the Navy shooters are great you will be surprised to know that the ladies team of the Sindh and Navy are of Olympic class in Rifle shooting and the sindh men shooters are representing Pakistan in Olympic and world championships in Skeet and trap.
    JU

  8. #28
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    Hats off sir
    Guns for peace

  9. #29
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    Nice thread Salahuddin brother. Hope we will be able to create enough interest among our fellow members regarding sports shooting. We are lucky that we have Sir Skeeter and Mr Munir to guide us. I am quite regular at the club and often get guidence from Mr Munir. I am into 50M rifle shooting, at the begning level. I think our PG members from Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad should take memberships of the rifle clubs(these all cities have rifle clubs). Everyone should select a basic decipline like Rifle shooting or pistol shooting depending upon one's interest.
    These serious shooters can get guidence from the senior members of the respective clubs(i found all senior shooters at LRC very helpful and ready to teach provided one shows enough love for the sport) and can get tips from Sir Skeeter and Sir Munir here.
    Last thing, interest is not the substitute of hard work.
    \"You cannot build character and courage by taking away a man\'s initiative and independence.\"

  10. #30
    Thankyou Skeeter Sb and Jamshed Sb.

    Yes, that would be the logical next step, i.e., to get membership of these clubs.

    However, these memberships should not be a limiting factor for those who cannot take memberships of such clubs due to any reason and such enthusiasts should still pursue their interest in this great sport by practicing in other suitable places (as mentioned earlier above) and share their results here with everyone.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salahuddin Ayubi
    Thankyou Skeeter Sb and Jamshed Sb.

    Yes, that would be the logical next step, i.e., to get membership of these clubs.

    However, these memberships should not be a limiting factor for those who cannot take memberships of such clubs due to any reason and such enthusiasts should still pursue their interest in this great sport by practicing in other suitable places (as mentioned earlier above) and share their results here with everyone.
    Dear SA

    I will be gladly your partner for sports shooting. Will discuss on it on GTG.

    As far as I remmeber, our Champ Imu10 (Imran Bhai) is also a winner of PNS Karsaz shooting range. He got 1st position last year as well as second last but due to restriction of last year winner wont be able to get position in next year, it wasn't declared.

    @ Sohail Bhai / Taurus Bhai ........... correct me if I am wrong.
    Owning a handgun doesn\'t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician. By Jeff Cooper

  12. #32
    Posting it here from another thread. Thought it was relevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by midreestaj
    My Sunday shoot - December 13th, 2009.
    -----------------------------------------------------

    Pistols: Beretta 92FS Pak made clone, Zastava CZ999 Scorpion
    Cal: 9mm both
    Target type: Paper Chart, homemade type fixed on a dead tree
    Distance: 12 to 15 yards approx
    Ammo: POF MKIIZ, Norinco Chinese Blue Box(71 and 311 factory), Local Reloads

    Today myself with a friend and my brother, went for shooting. Sure it was fun shooting this time again as it has always been before but I always emphasize on learning something new every time I attend a session of shooting. We had brief time at our private range, even though there is no proper facility there as such but I still like to call it my RANGE.
    I used my own pistol only this time which happens to be a 92FS Pak made clone, my bro and friend enjoyed shooting with a Zastava CZ999 9mm pistol.
    We fired a total of 200 rounds in as much as under 90 minutes. Details of which are as under:
    CZ999 - 50 rounds of Norinco blue box "Factory 71 headstamp" ammo.
    92FS clone - 80 rounds of POF MKIIZ, 8 rounds of Norinco FMJ blue box (311 factory ammo), 130 rounds of local reloads (Baber Ammo Factory)

    Impression on Shooting and my findings:
    Well as I mentioned earlier, I always like to have something new learned on shooting. But this time I just went backwards. Surprisingly I was not able to stop blinking my eyes while shots went off. This thing in particular I have given much time and practice to overcome lately. Also I would like to add that I dont use ear muffs at all. This is to ensure that I get used to keep my eyes opened with my gun going boom in my face everytime, keeping in mind SD scenarios where I would require to put a bullet in the intended path crucially. I know that many of new shooters do that but having it learnt and then unlearn later on is depressing. But still it was fun to shoot anyway, got some better groups as well on the paper. Next time, I plan to practice again and will hopefully make myself watch the climbing muzzle, i.e. front sight going up and then coming back to the place where it started to jump from. You know why it is important, mainly because for a follow-up shot, if your eyes are not tracing the movement of front sight GO UP and back DOWN during firing cycle, you cannot always put your pistol in the same plane/axis to where it was, as on the previous shot.
    My friend and my bro did some fun with CZ999 and they say they were enjoying so I was kind of letting them enjoy this time.

    Impression on Ammo:
    ----------------------------
    CZ999 fired all Chinese blue box ammo, without a single FTE or FTF or misfires. 50 rounds were fired, all butter smooth.
    92FS clone did its 1st round of 8 shots of norinco 311 stamped FMJ ammo, then with 80 rounds of POF MKIIZ without a hitch. Consistent recoil and muzzle blast on every shot. MKIIZ went cycling like premium grade ammo in my clone. I noticed that even the ejection of brass is typical and consistent every time POF round was cycled.
    Now the local reloads by Baber ammo factory, well out of 130 rounds, 2 rounds required a double action pull to get them launched, but what they really did bad was, they produced a lot of soot which was like pouring down in the breech area, frame rails, and even guide rod and just about every where in the pistol. I also found some yellow tinkles/particles sticking here and there in my slide and breech. It was real dirty ammo and also gave me about 10 FTE due to inconsistent pressure peaks, or may be there was issues with those cases.

    Video Links:
    -----------------
    Myself with Pak made Beretta 92FS clone
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI14ADlxt0c
    Note: Please forgive me, if you dont like my slide not sticking back on slide stop after every last round in the mag was fired, this is due to stiff slide release lever. It has gone really stiff after installation of Hogue wrap around grips actually. After all you know its a clone.

    My friend and Bro trying out Zastava CZ999 Scorpion Pistol
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PazuFcrD-0

    Some Target Results:
    ----------------------------
    We had only 7 target charts prepared, so a lot of shooting was done on the last chart target which ended up drilled a zillion times by me. Some targets have shots by both the 92 clone and CZ999 on them. They are marked on each hole by 'B' incase of 92FS and 'CZ' in case of Zastava CZ999 pistol.

    Below: 92FS(MKIIZ ammo), 20 shots with a reload. 10 hits in upper section of rings, 9 hits in lower.


    Below: 92FS(MKIIZ) and CZ999(Norinco blue box) hits, marked separately by B's and CZ'z along holes.


    Below: 92FS(MKIIZ) 14 shots, 7 with each Mag.


    Below: CZ999(Norinco blue box), 10 shot string on the lower side.


    Below: CZ999(Norinco blue box), 14 shots, 7 from each mag.


    Below: 92FS(MKIIZ), 10 shots, 8 hits marked with B's and CZ999(Norinco blue box), 10 shots, 7 hits marked with CZ's.


    Below: My 92 clone is a spray gun, hell yeah! She loves local reloads, she is kind of patriot in this sense. :)
    100+ shots with several misses those went from complete left and right.


    Some Eye Candy:
    ---------------------------------

    Below: We picked up as much of brass that was lying around on the ground. Whole lot of souvenir it is.


    Below: The bolt throwers


    Below: Some recovered rounds from the wood, also let me clear that the tree we use is no more green. It is already dead and we are hoping it will fall down as soon as a strong wind blows or it might get a bullet again in coming weekends :)

  13. #33
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    The self made target reminds me of my school compass. I wonder if kids still carry them to school.
    Kmb

  14. #34
    They do.

  15. #35
    a compass was used indeed.
    My finger on the trigger with what's so foreign in my sights ..... Anger rise !
    We wage a war ... our nature to preserve... By any means... our enemies be gone...!
    No longer can we wait, As an enemy drains our future,As the light of a new day shines, Our anger fuels our march this dawn



  16. #36
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    very nice photos :)
    I think therefore I am

  17. #37
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    @s ayubi brother great start of this thread,skeeter60 very valu able informations given to us,
    rifle .22 50mtr prone, more details of target size.rifle type,and scope please,mentioned/required with thanks:)

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Hanif Malik
    @s ayubi brother great start of this thread,skeeter60 very valu able informations given to us,
    rifle .22 50mtr prone, more details of target size.rifle type,and scope please,mentioned/required with thanks:)
    Dr Sahab
    The rifles used are more often than not the Anshutz 1913 with apperture sights, scopes are not allowed. The Target is with me but I will give you the exact dimensions later. The fore arms cannot be rested a sling may be used. Ashooting jacket is allowed. A total of 60 shots are fired in series of 5 shots.The Target has a 10 ring 0f about 1cm I will give exact dimensions later.
    In the air Rifle the range is 10m the rifles used are a cylinder charged and the 10 is a dot like a full stop so you can imagine the effort and concentration required
    JU

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeter60
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Hanif Malik
    @s ayubi brother great start of this thread,skeeter60 very valu able informations given to us,
    rifle .22 50mtr prone, more details of target size.rifle type,and scope please,mentioned/required with thanks:)
    Dr Sahab
    The rifles used are more often than not the Anshutz 1913 with apperture sights, scopes are not allowed. The Target is with me but I will give you the exact dimensions later. The fore arms cannot be rested a sling may be used. Ashooting jacket is allowed. A total of 60 shots are fired in series of 5 shots.The Target has a 10 ring 0f about 1cm I will give exact dimensions later.
    In the air Rifle the range is 10m the rifles used are a cylinder charged and the 10 is a dot like a full stop so you can imagine the effort and concentration required
    great, thank you sir, we will try best,comming feb, our orgnization shooting compitition going to be started,i will be connected with you for sport shooting tips:)

  20. #40
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    @skeeter60,please give marks to this below target shooting from distance 47mtr with .22 brno:)

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