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Thread: What Makes Guns Thrice as Expensive in Pakistan?

  1. #1

    Post What Makes Guns Thrice as Expensive in Pakistan?

    Considering the FBR's updates as of May 2013, "the arms import attract 15 percent regulatory duty and 30 to 35 percent customs duty" makes it 50% import taxes in total. I only fail to understand, if so, why are most guns available on market are twice and thrice, and in some cases five times more expensive than MRSP + duties?

    For instance, the Glock 19 is just a USD 600 weapon (PKR 60,000/-) and with all taxes & shipping, handling etc expenditure, it costs ~100,000/- but is listed with dealer @ PKR 280,000/- (Asad of Sardar Adil Arms, and Chaudhry Arms) and in some cases, upto PKR 330,000/- whereas Taurus PT99, a USD 400 (PKR, 40,000/-) handgun is available at only PKR 75,000/- to 85,000/-. If you check most other handguns too, you'd notice for the price to be fluctuating without even a formula. Only a couple of brands are listed for like 4-5 times the cost meaning the importer to distributor to retailer profits incline to upto 400% at least. Is it so, or isn't it? Only if so, doesn't it make it a black-market already, monopolized in a twisted way by cartels involving a under the hush-up agreement?

    Well, i'm not being conclusive, just querying if anybuddy could expand the information spectrum for everyone's better understanding?
    A gun in the hand keeps the other in the holster ;-)

  2. #2
    Well we can say that the price is directly proportional to the demand (brand ka naam hi kaafi hai); just like, "Mai to Honda hi lesa" .

  3. #3
    Lord of War raff's Avatar
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    Well Omer bro its not that simple, laws make the imports look very simple but its the other way around. Import of arms and ammunition is very expensive and as there are a few proper dealers in Pakistan who have there way around these issues tend to keep the market monopolized.
    If God didn't want us to have GUNS, He wouldn't have given us GUN fingers...

  4. #4
    Lord of War sulzar's Avatar
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    Plus here 2+2= 22 that's how the maths works
    In Sawaloon or Jawaboon may khoie zaat.....yahee tu hay hamari hayyat

  5. #5
    Supreme Member Leon's Avatar
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    The reason for high prices of European and US made weapons is restriction on export of these weapons to Pakistan imposed by EU and US. The dealers have to arrange special permissions from concerned departments which is time and money consuming. Even after obtaining these permissions, they are allowed to import limited quantity. These restrictions is quite relaxed when it comes to sporting weapons like shotguns and bolt action rifles. That is the reason, their prices are quite reasonable. It is another story that Pakistani Government don't allow import of rifles and issue import permit in limited quantity which affects prices of rifles. But when it comes to pistols other than .22LR, they fall in the category of assault weapons thus making it difficult to get export permission from EU and US.

    Sometimes, the dealers have to use other channels to import weapon into Pakistan like routing them from third country which again involves lot of money (import & export taxes, shipment costs), time and hassle. That's why they charge premium on those weapons

    That is the reason, the prices of pistols other than EU and US make (CZ, Taurus, Zastave, Norinco and etc) are quite reasonable.

    On other hand, the money involved in getting import permit from Government of Pakistan also affect prices of weapons which dealers pass on to the consumers. So, basically it is not import duty which affects prices of weapons but other factors as well.

  6. #6
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    Leon ++++ .many weapons are also hand carried by officials . Which are again sold through dealers at premium price

  7. #7
    Member Extraordinaire shahroze's Avatar
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    CZ 75b is almost USD 700$
    and here is costs till 120k
    while many other guns as listed above are cheaper but cost more here
    that is because of brand image and how popular it is. No one knows what CZ's are capable of
    when they hear bretta the first thing they come up with its expensive hence its good
    the more the demand the higher the prices are basic economic law
    then comes in the companies repute, after sales and how consumers trust them
    though in a 3rd world country where education is our least priority we all fall for the expensive but rotten apples the mind set has been set that every expensive shinny thing is good
    and then the elite class strengthens this believe when they want to have every thing expensive so the have somthing to brag about
    and even if every thing goes into its place you can expect anything from a country where the peasent and the king are corrupt
    Communist until you get rich; Feminist until you get married; Atheist until the airplane starts falling.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by raff View Post
    Well Omer bro its not that simple, laws make the imports look very simple but its the other way around. Import of arms and ammunition is very expensive and as there are a few proper dealers in Pakistan who have there way around these issues tend to keep the market monopolized.
    what's expensive is clearly put into a pre-defined percentage, I import performance engines for automobiles %age remains the same. Percentage would just be applied same on a "9mm" of just any brand just like it does on import vehicles. Yes, I get your point too, monopolizing the situation and all those off-track tricks, you're right about it. So black-marketing it is. And there is no price-control, no consumer rights' protection else where than on food stuff and that too with a rerhi-wala ?
    A gun in the hand keeps the other in the holster ;-)

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by sulzar View Post
    Plus here 2+2= 22 that's how the maths works
    exactly, and unfortunately!
    A gun in the hand keeps the other in the holster ;-)

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon View Post
    The reason for high prices of European and US made weapons is restriction on export of these weapons to Pakistan imposed by EU and US. The dealers have to arrange special permissions from concerned departments which is time and money consuming. Even after obtaining these permissions, they are allowed to import limited quantity. These restrictions is quite relaxed when it comes to sporting weapons like shotguns and bolt action rifles. That is the reason, their prices are quite reasonable. It is another story that Pakistani Government don't allow import of rifles and issue import permit in limited quantity which affects prices of rifles. But when it comes to pistols other than .22LR, they fall in the category of assault weapons thus making it difficult to get export permission from EU and US.

    Sometimes, the dealers have to use other channels to import weapon into Pakistan like routing them from third country which again involves lot of money (import & export taxes, shipment costs), time and hassle. That's why they charge premium on those weapons

    That is the reason, the prices of pistols other than EU and US make (CZ, Taurus, Zastave, Norinco and etc) are quite reasonable.

    On other hand, the money involved in getting import permit from Government of Pakistan also affect prices of weapons which dealers pass on to the consumers. So, basically it is not import duty which affects prices of weapons but other factors as well.
    Makes quite some sense concerning the EU and US made weapons. But again, all the recent lots of Beretta were imported from Turkey, the LEA lots inclusive, so the shelf price doesn't justify the above situation, that's where I see it black-marketing that involves pool-ups in a cartel way. Likewise, Glock is Austrian and is openly exported, directly from manufacturer, and further tree. Asad of Sardar Adil is a major handler and is located almost right next to Major Sahb (the Taurus importer) in Bank Square, The Mall. The MSRP difference, I repeat, is just USD ~200 and the calibre is same. One sourcing agent is adding just a 35-50% premium and the other is charging like up to 500%, that is actually what I haven't been able to understand. It is not (only) that i'm unable to afford a Glock at that much price, but it just doesn't simply *justify* if you know what I mean. I'm unaccustomed to submitting to someone else's rule, like... i don't like to play the game by such messed up rules. If such tactics would disturb the cost-to-value ratio, I believe most would-be consumers would be at right to feel offended. Well, at least I can happily purchase a Desert Eagle .45 or 9mm for half a mil, but I won't just flush my hard-earned money on a Glock for no reason but forced-digestion, that's the concern I felt within and initiated this thread to see if it is only me unable to understand.
    Last edited by OmErJamil; 19-07-2013 at 05:35 PM.
    A gun in the hand keeps the other in the holster ;-)

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Zakir View Post
    Leon ++++ .many weapons are also hand carried by officials . Which are again sold through dealers at premium price
    Again, that is a very unfortunate reality. You'd be surprised to learn that I happen to know at least one confirmed event of such a trade; a uniformed official trading in the original Beretta against a Replica + Rs. 50,000/- cash to go! This information is first-hand, and not referred to by a friend if you know what i mean. Yes Doc, things like such happen a lot and it is so embarrassing to not be able to do much about that...
    A gun in the hand keeps the other in the holster ;-)

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by shahroze View Post
    CZ 75b is almost USD 700$
    and here is costs till 120k
    while many other guns as listed above are cheaper but cost more here
    that is because of brand image and how popular it is. No one knows what CZ's are capable of
    when they hear bretta the first thing they come up with its expensive hence its good
    the more the demand the higher the prices are basic economic law
    then comes in the companies repute, after sales and how consumers trust them
    though in a 3rd world country where education is our least priority we all fall for the expensive but rotten apples the mind set has been set that every expensive shinny thing is good
    and then the elite class strengthens this believe when they want to have every thing expensive so the have somthing to brag about
    and even if every thing goes into its place you can expect anything from a country where the peasent and the king are corrupt
    true, we have gone so corrupt that we just blindly submit our soles to literally accepting such ill trades, and their existing by not doing anything about it. We have lost the core essentials of the very human social-responsibility towards the community, the society, the nation of humanity we so belong to! Listening to such an event, and coming up with a quick reaction like "that what it is, aisa hi hota hai, har jagah, flani jagah bhi aisa hi hota hai" doesn't justify anything, call a spade a spade no matter what!

    I'm sorry to say, Beretta isn't something superb top-of-the-line, for I remember the introduction of Taurus PT92 in the era of Beretta 92FS and the earlier mentioned had better metallurgic characteristics as well as added safety features than which it replicated from. It is authentic that later Beretta itself adopted the feature-set from the Taurus PT92. To cut short, a *design patent* is not all that I look into guns for, I go for overall performance and skillset a gun, a friend has to offer, it's always a package-deal and not brand-consciousness to me at least, I'm sure quite a number of gun enthusiast would agree. So, the bottom line, it doesn't increase any value to me or convinces me to rate Beretta better than the equal similar with any other R&D oriented manufacturer of repute. The pricing factor here, still is something I wouldn't approve. Yes, I second your CZ75 case scenrio, that's what my point was in first post. True!

    Kher, Allah hum sub ko hidayat tau d chuka hai, it depends on us to accept it or intentionally go blind with the glitter of shiny rotten apples ;-)
    A gun in the hand keeps the other in the holster ;-)

  13. #13
    So far, as the topic-specific discussion has proceeded above, considering ethics & morality our beacon, and a core essential humanistic value, I've reached to the below mentioned updates to my information to which I'm not yet sure I should be conclusive to:

    As most participants have elaborated,

    1. There is certainly not any existing consideration of a fixed or logical formula of costing set with a profit ratio towards a *legitimate* shelf-price.
    2. The hefty premium we-the-consumers are *bound to pay* for any such desired product that has processed through above condition, is an amount that is not accounted for, as has been flushed away in off-the-record handling, ill & black trades, bribes etc i.e. criminal offences in one clause or another- AND, the shocking fact is we are aware that a huge percentage of per product price we may doesn't make it's way to Federal Revenue at all!
    3. Authorised importers, dealers, and retailers are neither screened for Consumer Rights' Protection nor Price Control policies at all, or at least, most of the times & venues.
    4. It is apparent that no case-studies, or social-impact oriented motions have been proceeded by the any Consumer Society/Forum as of yet in order to protect the very rights we are entitled to.
    5. Let's remain open to further views on this to see if substantial addition to information proceeds.
    6. Hints have been given ;-)
    Last edited by OmErJamil; 19-07-2013 at 05:40 PM. Reason: some typo
    A gun in the hand keeps the other in the holster ;-)

  14. #14
    Supreme Member Leon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmErJamil View Post
    Makes quite some sense concerning the EU and US made weapons. But again, all the recent lots of Beretta were imported from Turkey, the LEA lots inclusive, so the shelf price doesn't justify the above situation, that's where I see it black-marketing that involves pool-ups in a cartel way. Likewise, Glock is Austrian and is openly exported, directly from manufacturer, and further tree. Asad of Sardar Adil is a major handler and is located almost right next to Major Sahb (the Taurus importer) in Bank Square, The Mall. The MSRP difference, I repeat, is just USD ~200 and the calibre is same. One sourcing agent is adding just a 35-50% premium and the other is charging like up to 500%, that is actually what I haven't been able to understand. It is not (only) that i'm unable to afford a Glock at that much price, but it just doesn't simply *justify* if you know what I mean. I'm unaccustomed to submitting to someone else's rule, like... i don't like to play the game by such messed up rules. If such tactics would disturb the cost-to-value ratio, I believe most would-be consumers would be at right to feel offended. Well, at least I can happily purchase a Desert Eagle .45 or 9mm for half a mil, but I won't just flush my hard-earned money on a Glock for no reason but forced-digestion, that's the concern I felt within and initiated this thread to see if it is only me unable to understand.
    Bro! Austria is part of EU. So, the rule apply there as well. Glock does not export weapons directly to Pakistan due to embargo and I have exchanged mails with them in 2009. Regarding, Beretta, LEA can import small arms / weapon or small arms / weapons for LEA from any country and there is no restriction on that. Example: KPK Police is importing 5,000 Glocks directly from Austria through sole-agent based in Karachi. Regarding, Beretta imported from Turkey, please don't forget to add import / export duties, middleman's margin and shipment cots. Thus you are getting a USD 700 weapon in PKR 180,000.

  15. #15
    @Leon, Meray bhai, the sole agent based in Karachi imports *directly* from Glock's AP assignee and not otherwise, it makes Turkey and HongKong identical being in Asia and not in EU. Again, duties being the same, what would make:

    1. a $600 item being upto 500% expensive on local shelf, whereas
    (i) a $700 item is charged around 150% premium (max) i.e. Beretta 92FS
    (ii) a $400 item is charged around lets say 50% premium (max) i.e. Taurus PT92

    A clarified understanding towards the unjustified imbalance is my whole point in the topic.
    Last edited by OmErJamil; 19-07-2013 at 10:15 PM.
    A gun in the hand keeps the other in the holster ;-)

  16. #16
    Supreme Member Leon's Avatar
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    Bro! I think we are complicating the issue. As far as I know, the guns of US and EU make arrive in Pakistan after lot hassle and dealers charge premium for that. There is no easy way to import these guns to Pakistan. If the companies or authorities in US & EU somehow get the proof that these guns are somehow making into Pakistan, they would blacklist those foreign dealers. Yes! the margin is quite high in case of Beretta, Glock, HK and Sig due to demand & supply factor as well.

  17. #17
    Lord of War sulzar's Avatar
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    http://www.nationalgunwarehouse.com/ just found it random searching. You guys can get better idea of prices of GLOCK and others in USA.
    In Sawaloon or Jawaboon may khoie zaat.....yahee tu hay hamari hayyat

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    so what we can do for dis siks and ill beman dealers that they can sale in decent price to us
    we all have to do something about it. they are taking too much money no three much prize dis is reduclas not fair
    can we do somthing or not???

  19. #19
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    thank you bro bareta nano aaa 379$ glock g23 549

  20. #20
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    cum on fight with all dealers one by one

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