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Thread: Practice

  1. #1
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    Practice

    Practice

    When we go to the range, we tend to do what’s fun or easy rather than concentrating on improving our weakest skills, and that’s OK.

    Shooting should be fun. But especially when practicing with our everyday carry pistol—instead of our favorite range gun—we would be better served if we focus on some drills designed to improve our defensive skills. And, although it is a bit expensive to do all of our practice with premium defensive .22LR Remington Yellow Jacket ammunition, we should cycle that ammunition through our pistol often enough to keep fresh fodder in our carry gun, be familiar with how it runs and know where it hits. Here’s a practice drill that consumes one 50-round box of defensive ammunition and includes some of the skills we all should have. Why again .22LR in the practice ?. Well for few good reasons. Some of them are

    a) They are light weight b) They are more accurate in short & long distance shooting c) They are small in size & easy to carry d) They are chew in maintance e) They have really cheap ammo f) They have affordable price g) They have less recoil h) They are easy to operate by everyone in the family either by kids or women i) There ammo is available easily (like Walmart).

    For this exercise, you’ll need two targets with center-mass and head-shot areas defined, or you can make one yourself with an 8-inch circle representing the upper chest and a 3◊5-inch card for the head-scoring area.

    Remember, the idea here is to use your daily carry pistol the way you would normally carry it concealed. If you find you are having trouble making the times or you’re not practiced in drawing from concealment, try working the drills from a low-ready position—with both hands on the pistol and the muzzle down. When you find you can shoot this drill comfortably, it’s time to add elements like vocalising and moving. As you draw the pistol or point it, yell, “Don’t move!” and take a big step to one side or the other. At a distance of 3 yards, draw and fire two rounds at center mass within 2 seconds, strong hand only, and repeat. Next, draw and fire two rounds center mass and one round to the head within 3 seconds, then repeat.

    Move back to 5 yards, draw and fire two rounds on two separate targets, aiming for center mass, each within 4 seconds. Retreat to 10 yards, and from a low-ready position, fire two rounds center mass within 4 seconds. Finally, also from 10 yards and from the low-ready position, fire two rounds each, center mass, on two targets, within 5 seconds.
    You know they say 2 is better than 1 . Carrying 2 .22LR pistols are always better than carrying one 9mm or 45ACP pistols. Almost every .22LR pistols are light weight small & easy to carry. I carry weapon for my safety not for looks. What ever gives me an edge in any given situation, i rather have that extra edge than not having. Be smart & choose wisely.

    Now repeat the same above procedure with 2 pistols.

    Don’t forget your post-shooting sequence: After you’re done shooting, bring the pistol down to low ready, scan, breathe and reload the pistol. Especially with pistols that may only have a 10 - or 12 - round capacity, it’s important to get the gun back to full capacity after shooting. Practicing your tactical or speed reloads should be part of all training sessions.

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    If you find getting center-mass hits at 10 yards is easy, move back and try shooting at 15 or 25 yards and in some cases i suggest to move it all the way up to 50 yards or more. Yes, most defensive shootings occur at shorter ranges, but you should still have an idea of your capabilities at distance should the need arise. This drill can help you improve your skills and sort out your defensive choices.
    Last edited by .50CAL; 05-02-2013 at 08:56 AM.

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  3. #3
    Member Extraordinaire ajmal virk's Avatar
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    Nice and very informative share.

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    PakGuns Elite! Ameer's Avatar
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    nice.........
    Remember the first rule of gunfighting ... have a gun.

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    Big & Sexy Moeen's Avatar
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    Salam All,
    Very Nice where is this range?
    Fairfax huh? Near GMU should I presume? Used to go to Blueridge arsenal quite a bit. And then I started doing the range over in Warrenton as well. But don't remember this one, I do recall there being one somewhere near Manassas or Bull Run...?
    Curious.
    Been advocating .22lr for carry for ages. Been carrying one around for ages too. My favorite is a Walther PPK in .22lr or Walther P22.
    \"In a world of compromise... Some Don\'t!\" Heckler & Koch

    \"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.\" Bill of Rights - 2 Amendment of the Constitution of U.S.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moeen View Post
    Salam All,
    Very Nice where is this range?
    Fairfax huh? Near GMU should I presume? Used to go to Blueridge arsenal quite a bit. And then I started doing the range over in Warrenton as well. But don't remember this one, I do recall there being one somewhere near Manassas or Bull Run...?
    Curious.
    Been advocating .22lr for carry for ages. Been carrying one around for ages too. My favorite is a Walther PPK in .22lr or Walther P22.
    Dear Moeen Sahib, Although, this debate is old enough but just to make my wish stronger, Can you please put more light on .22lr as a routine carrying handgun?
    Dr. Awan

  7. #7
    PakGuns Elite! AK47's Avatar
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    Nice share, thanks.

    And then we have our own top expert coming in and recommending the .22lr as well. Fine.

    I'd just like to know from both of you - and Moeen bro specifically - is the Walther P-22 a reliable weapon?

    The general perception about the .22 handguns happens to be that people requiring serious SD cover do not quite impose much confidence in the miniature mechanism of the .22 platform, as it very often jams the cycling randomly. The mechanism seems to be "sensitive" to many factors in the hands of the user.

    I agree with both of you that it's easy to shoot it out more accurately, enabling better shot placements as a vital factor to neutralize any threatening object, but it's the no-confidence in the reliability sector of the cycling process itself that keeps away many seasoned people from the .22 platform, deeming it a fun gun and no serious business item, only.

    Let me know on background of above perception, which guns from this platform you deem fit to carry as primary SD weapon, is the Walther P-22 a reliable handgun? I'm still missing out this caliber, but I loved shooting out the Buckmark goodie of Denovo 87 bro, last time I was in Sialkot. It was plain bulls. BUT. It did jam occasionally!!


    Regards.
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage, than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.

    "Take your time and deliberate, but when the time for action has arrived, stop thinking, and go in. "

  8. #8
    Big & Sexy Moeen's Avatar
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    Salam All,
    @Arawan - as for routine carry the gun is very very light, easily concealable, has very good accurate lethal range which some of the other calibers do not, has low recoil - hence repeat shot placement is no problem even with shaky nervous hands, and there are more and as I remember them I will keep adding but these are the main reasons I ALWAYS carry .22 with me.
    @AK47 - Sir, mine is reliable, I have found some out there unreliable, BUT most I have stumbled upon have been very reliable. btw, my Buckmark nor my Ruger jammed EVER... NEVER.
    \"In a world of compromise... Some Don\'t!\" Heckler & Koch

    \"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.\" Bill of Rights - 2 Amendment of the Constitution of U.S.

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    Remington Yellow Jacket ammo is nice but I prefer the Viper(solid version of that round.)

  10. #10
    Lord of War
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    Thank you Moeen sb,
    I have the same experience with .22lr rifle (Voere, Made in Austria). The rifle fired thousands of rounds since 1985 and I could not remember any FTF or FTE. I know, this is exceptional one as I could not get the same reliability with my CZ511 (.22lr Rifle).
    Here, I feel agreed with the argument "Carrying a lighter one is better than carrying nothing". So, I am thinking to get a .22 Mag revolver for occasional carry (I have been using Makarov for my primary SD ).
    Dr. Awan

  11. #11
    PakGuns Elite! AK47's Avatar
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    Thanks Moeen bro. I get it from your repeated stressing "MY" piece, that you have a good piece, but that you're not sure about it in general? Let me ask you the question another way, since you've a vast experience with all handguns and a large network of friends with many more. Have you seen friend's, shooting pal's pieces of Walther P-22 jam out of the way, means apart from the very occasional one like 1-2 in a hundred rounds?

    Regards.
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage, than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.

    "Take your time and deliberate, but when the time for action has arrived, stop thinking, and go in. "

  12. #12
    Big & Sexy Moeen's Avatar
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    Salam All,
    @AK47 - I have had about 9 p22 pieces come and go through my hands out of which two were prone to occasional jams. The others ate up everything.
    \"In a world of compromise... Some Don\'t!\" Heckler & Koch

    \"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.\" Bill of Rights - 2 Amendment of the Constitution of U.S.

  13. #13
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    No doubt about it that the Ruger is best .22 handgun by any category.&nbsp;<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250); ">Walther PPK .22lr and Walther P22 are great too. but the problem with&nbsp;</span><span style="background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250); "><font color="#333333">Walther P22 it's a very ammo&nbsp;sensitive. most the .22 doesn't cycle properly. One of the main problem is with .22lr is they have not been market properly either none of them are made with passion. i'm including both guns &amp; ammo. if they really wanted to make things better they really need step up all things. But since .22 ammo is harder to make and there main targets were, are and always been military and&nbsp;law enforcements so they rather work on a caliber that is easy to manufacture &amp; market. The .22LR is more lethal than the average calibers like 9mm.<br><br>Just imagine that every one in a (A) house carries .22. the total number of house hold are 10. out of those 10 people 6 are children under the age of 18, parents over age of 50 and your self &amp; wife.<br>Second (B) House</font></span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250); ">&nbsp;carries 9mm, 40, 45 acp, 44 &amp; so on. the total number of house hold are 10.&nbsp;</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250); ">out of those 10 people 6 are children under the age of 18, parents over age of 50 and your self &amp; wife.<br></span><span style="background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250); "><font color="#333333"><br>House A have more advantage than the house B if they go under attack. Agree ? Yes<br><br>Because house A have 10 people who can shoot on the other hand house B have only 1 person who can shoot great &amp; rest of them don't because of the recoil, blast noise &amp; weight.&nbsp;<br></font></span><p style="margin-top: 1em; margin-bottom: 1em; line-height: 24px; font-family: georgia; color: rgb(49, 49, 49); ">The first quarter of a new year is always exciting for shooting enthusiasts as the<font color="#ce181e"><span style="-webkit-transition: 0.6s;">&nbsp;</span></font><font color="#ce181e"><span style="-webkit-transition: 0.6s;">new guns are announced and shipped</span></font><a href="http://www.gunsandammo.com/gas-shot-show-2012-coverage/" target="_blank"></a>&nbsp;to dealers. Some years a particular, trend or theme will rise to the forefront of the industryís media coverage. In 2010, the market enjoyed a surge in new pocket-sized .380 semi-auto pistols. For 2011, .380 pocket pistols were trumped by a blitz of 9mm pocket rockets and we celebrated the<font color="#ce181e"><span style="-webkit-transition: 0.6s;">&nbsp;</span></font><font color="#ce181e"><span style="-webkit-transition: 0.6s;">birth of the 1911</span></font><a href="http://www.gunsandammo.com/tag/1911/" target="_blank"></a>. For 2012, a first look at the playing field revealed a variety of new guns to be released but not the headline-grabbing patterns of recent years. Upon closer examination, one particular caliber has plenty of new additions to get shooters out to the range: the .22 long rifle.</p><p style="margin-top: 1em; margin-bottom: 1em; line-height: 24px; font-family: georgia; color: rgb(49, 49, 49); ">Why does the .22 have such a loyal following? Why does the selection of handguns and rifles chambered for this round continue to grow? When I started asking folks in the industry this question, they looked at me in a funny way. Why not ask the reason people prefer to eat on a daily basis or why they like to go shooting at all?</p><p style="margin-top: 1em; margin-bottom: 1em; line-height: 24px; font-family: georgia; color: rgb(49, 49, 49); ">But this seemingly obvious question bears asking for good reasons. For all intents and purposes, the .22 long rifle should be obsolete. How many other black powder cartridges developed in 1887, with a family tree going back to 1845, have made the transition into the modern era? And of that handful of calibers, how many are stocked and sold by the thousands at local big-box and sporting goods stores? The rimfire primer system is obsolete, the round is not particularly powerful by todayís standards, and itís actually a relatively complicated round to construct. So whatís all the excitement about?</p><p style="margin-top: 1em; margin-bottom: 1em; line-height: 24px; font-family: georgia; color: rgb(49, 49, 49); ">Whatever weaknesses this cartridge may possess, they are almost universally overshadowed in light of the roundís positive characteristics. A few industry representatives from both sides of the .22 aisle, the gun makers and the ammunition manufacturers, shared with me their customersí reasons for sending .22 rounds down range on a regular basis.</p><p style="margin-top: 1em; margin-bottom: 1em; line-height: 24px; font-family: georgia; color: rgb(49, 49, 49); ">The single most quoted reason for the .22ís popularity? Itís cheap. Nothing speaks to the cost conscious shooter like the bottom line. Although all ammunition prices have gone up significantly in the last few years, you can still buy 500 rounds of bulk .22 cartridges for the same price as, or less than, a 50-round box of centerfire pistol or 20-round box of big-bore rifle rounds. This low per-round cost allows shooters to literally get more bangs for their buck, which translates to more actual trigger time.</p><p style="margin-top: 1em; margin-bottom: 1em; line-height: 24px; font-family: georgia; color: rgb(49, 49, 49); ">A high customer demand allows manufacturers to keep the .22 ammunition supply plentiful and diverse. Few calibers offer as many bullet and power variations as this little rimfire. Another benefit of buying .22 is that many of these firearms cost less than their full-caliber counterparts.</p><p style="margin-top: 1em; margin-bottom: 1em; line-height: 24px; font-family: georgia; color: rgb(49, 49, 49); ">If reducing the cost of both the ammunition and the gun is not enough incentive, then consider the reduction in noise and recoil. This is a big part of the fun factor of .22. Shooters can enjoy all of the satisfaction of hitting the target without the shoulder, wrist, or back pain that comes with long sessions at the shooting range with large-caliber guns. Reduced recoil also makes the .22 ideal for training new and young shooters. The .22 produces enough energy to make it good for small game hunting. The bullets are capable of dispatching the game without too much damage to the meat.</p><p style="margin-top: 1em; margin-bottom: 1em; line-height: 24px; font-family: georgia; color: rgb(49, 49, 49); ">Whatever your reasons for choosing to own a .22, this gun and ammunition combination is far from becoming an endangered species. In fact, with recent ammunition shortages and continuing high prices still in the collective shooting consciousness, itís likely that .22s are going to be as popular this year as ever, if not more so.<br><br><p style="margin-bottom: 10px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 27px; text-align: left; ">This is the second post in my Trends in Self Defense series. (The first one was:&nbsp;<font color="#772124">Trends in Self Defense, Part 1: Guns as a Force Equalizer</font><a href="http://gunssavelives.net/blog/trends-in-self-defense-part-1-guns-as-a-force-equalizer/"></a>)</p><p style="margin-bottom: 10px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 27px; text-align: left; ">In this article weíre going to reinforce the first rule of a gunfight: ďHave a gun.Ē</p><p style="margin-bottom: 10px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 27px; text-align: left; ">While the .22lr is far from the ideal choice for self defense, it does have several things going for it.</p><ul style="list-style: none; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 10px; margin-left: 10px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 27px; text-align: left; "><li style="margin: 5px 0px 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 17px; display: block; background-image: url(http://gunssavelives.net/wp-content/...ist-item.gif); background-position: 0px 6px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; "><strong>Cost</strong>: Guns chambered in .22lr tend to cost a good bit less than their full power counterparts. Ammo is a fraction of the cost of centerfire ammo, which allows for far more practice for someone on a tight&nbsp;budget</li><li style="margin: 5px 0px 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 17px; display: block; background-image: url(http://gunssavelives.net/wp-content/...ist-item.gif); background-position: 0px 6px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; "><strong>Recoil</strong>: The recoil of a .22lr is very light, even in small pistols. This allows for people that are recoil sensitive, or have weak grips due to age or injury to get quicker follow up shots</li><li style="margin: 5px 0px 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 17px; display: block; background-image: url(http://gunssavelives.net/wp-content/...ist-item.gif); background-position: 0px 6px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; "><strong>Availability</strong>: You can find .22lr ammo virtually anywhere ammo is sold</li><li style="margin: 5px 0px 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 17px; display: block; background-image: url(http://gunssavelives.net/wp-content/...ist-item.gif); background-position: 0px 6px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; "><strong>More deadly than you think</strong>: According to at least&nbsp;<font color="#772124">this study</font><a href="http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866" target="_blank"></a>, .22lr has more stopping power than you think</li><li style="margin: 5px 0px 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 17px; display: block; background-image: url(http://gunssavelives.net/wp-content/...ist-item.gif); background-position: 0px 6px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; "><strong>Reliability:</strong>&nbsp;While a centerfire round is always going to be more reliable than a rimfire, modern advances in rimfire technology, including better powder, have made modern rimfire ammunition nearly as reliable as centerfire. This is assuming of course that you are using a premium brand of ammo, not bulk pack.</li></ul><p style="margin-bottom: 10px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 27px; text-align: left; ">Am I telling everyone to leave your 9mmís and .45acpís at the house and get a .22 pocket pistol? Absolutely yes.&nbsp;</p><p style="margin-bottom: 10px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 27px; text-align: left; ">In all of the following stories an attack was successfully stopped with a weapon chambered in .22lr. Note that in a couple of cases the mere presence of the firearm was enough to end the incident.<br><br>.22 was the most popular caliber used in 2012. There must be a reason for it.&nbsp;</p></p>

  14. #14
    PakGuns Elite! AK47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moeen View Post
    Salam All,
    @AK47 - I have had about 9 p22 pieces come and go through my hands out of which two were prone to occasional jams. The others ate up everything.
    Lolz! I 'm not giving up on you. Ok, let me put it straight forward: Next time you have 1 of these which eat up everything, means EVERYTHING of .22 LR, kindly do me a favor and call me up for a cup of coffee & gup and a quick "hand over", would love to have a reliable P-22 souvenir item item from a best, dear friend, that bangs every time. Seriously.

    Regards.
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage, than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.

    "Take your time and deliberate, but when the time for action has arrived, stop thinking, and go in. "

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    Senior Moderator Denovo87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK47 View Post
    Lolz! I 'm not giving up on you. Ok, let me put it straight forward: Next time you have 1 of these which eat up everything, means EVERYTHING of .22 LR, kindly do me a favor and call me up for a cup of coffee & gup and a quick "hand over", would love to have a reliable P-22 souvenir item item from a best, dear friend, that bangs every time. Seriously.

    Regards.
    In your dreams AK bro even John Moses Browning hands me over one I will refuse to accept as "a .22lr semi auto pistol capable of eating everything". We need to change .22lr round to un-rimmed case before we could find something .22lr sooo reliable cycling semi auto.

    There can be less vs more ailing digestion system but there's nooooo .22lr pistol with perfect digestive system; if some one finds a piece I will request him to let me shoot only 100 rounds of my choice before I could change my belief

    I personally like to carry a .22lr or wmr gun but will never go semi auto way; revolvers my brother, if one need extremely reliable rimmed cartridge gun.
    Keep your fears to yourself, but share your courage with others.

  16. #16
    Member Extraordinaire s.cheema's Avatar
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    nice share
    THE ONLY EASY DAY WAS YESTERDAY

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    PakGuns Elite! AK47's Avatar
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    @Denovo bro..................Lolz! Let Moeen bro come forth on this, he seems to have a pretty fair amount of confidence in the rimmed caliber for SD carry.

    As for the revolver option, well, pulling the 12 Lbs trigger or so each time, I'm sure the gross benefit of low recoiled .22 will be pretty much counter balanced for the worse. Especially in quick successive, multiple shots. I believe, if you've to pull it hard, better do it with a hard-hitting .357 and get the job done in fewer shots.

    Hmm! Now, where is this taking us, to the .22 TCM, lol!

    Regards.
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage, than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.

    "Take your time and deliberate, but when the time for action has arrived, stop thinking, and go in. "

  18. #18

    Good Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Denovo87 View Post
    In your dreams AK bro even John Moses Browning hands me over one I will refuse to accept as "a .22lr semi auto pistol capable of eating everything". We need to change .22lr round to un-rimmed case before we could find something .22lr sooo reliable cycling semi auto.
    Denovo has hit the nail on the head in this paragraph.22LR cartridge and all guns are fun to shoot as far as plinking goes. Due to primer in the rim it will be always a questionable round for reliability. Quality improvements in past decades made this round very affordable and still plenty available in the markets all around the world. Here is my take.

    Whenever my kids are home we take a bulk box (over 550) to the range and just shoot. Do I get duds, oh yeah. Do I discard them or throw them? Hell no. I rotate them and shoot them either on 2nd or 3rd try. I do that since I got plenty of time.

    Does this scenario qualifies 22LR to be my self defense cartridge. Absolutely NOT.Guys, I got only one life, and I want to protect it with everything best available for me. 22LR does not fall in best for me. Now, if this is all I got, then it is something better than nothing. And trust me, don't underestimate this little bullet, it can be lethal if placed correctly. Seen many people getting hurt thinking that it is not.

    If you want a potent and small cartridge, my suggestion would be to go for 9X18 Mak, I carry it everyday and feels like part of my body. Pretty powerful bullet in small cartridge and does the job forcefully.

    Picture of this little gun on my collection page. I never had to draw yet in real time and hope to have it same way but I do shoot a magazine during my range trip. By the way, disagreements are always welcome!!!
    Last edited by Marker; 16-02-2013 at 04:11 AM.

  19. #19
    Senior Member doc pistol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marker View Post
    Denovo has hit the nail on the head in this paragraph.22LR cartridge and all guns are fun to shoot as far as plinking goes. Due to primer in the rim it will be always a questionable round for reliability. Quality improvements in past decades made this round very affordable and still plenty available in the markets all around the world. Here is my take.

    Whenever my kids are home we take a bulk box (over 550) to the range and just shoot. Do I get duds, oh yeah. Do I discard them or throw them? Hell no. I rotate them and shoot them either on 2nd or 3rd try. I do that since I got plenty of time.

    Does this scenario qualifies 22LR to be my self defense cartridge. Absolutely NOT.Guys, I got only one life, and I want to protect it with everything best available for me. 22LR does not fall in best for me. Now, if this is all I got, then it is something better than nothing. And trust me, don't underestimate this little bullet, it can be lethal if placed correctly. Seen many people getting hurt thinking that it is not.

    If you want a potent and small cartridge, my suggestion would be to go for 9X18 Mak, I carry it everyday and feels like part of my body. Pretty powerful bullet in small cartridge and does the job forcefully.

    Picture of this little gun on my collection page. I never had to draw yet in real time and hope to have it same way but I do shoot a magazine during my range trip. By the way, disagreements are always welcome!!!
    how bout 7.65 "32cal" among smaller cartridges for sd,,,,,i have it in walther ppk

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by doc pistol View Post
    how bout 7.65 "32cal" among smaller cartridges for sd,,,,,i have it in walther ppk
    I think it is another good choice. My father carried it all the times. Walther PPK is a very good CC design. My Hungarian PA-63 is about size of PPK and is 80% Aluminum which makes it very light and was about half the price of PPK.

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