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Thread: Self Defence With .22LR ?

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    Red face Self Defence With .22LR ?

    22 LR for Self-Defense?

    More bad guys are stopped by .22 Long Rifle ammo every year than any other chambering, but is it a good choice for personal protection?


    Why would anyone even consider the .22 LR for self-defense? Using the pipsqueak rounds when your life hangs in the balance may seem similar to the “Charge of the Light Brigade,” taking the approach that, “Theirs not to reason why. Theirs but to do and die.” That kind of thinking is unacceptable.

    The fact is, .22 LR is, will and has been used extensively for self-defense—probably more often than you think. Rifles and handguns chambered for the rimfire cartridge are affordable, compact and the most common of all firearms. They have been the gun behind the door in American households for more than a century. They’re easy to shoot, don’t make a lot of noise and don’t cost an arm and a leg to feed.

    Why are they often used for self-defense? Well, why do you pick your nose with your finger? It’s convenient at the time.

    A .22 LR is the only gun some people own. That doesn’t mean it’s the most appropriate. I’ve driven nails with a crescent wrench and smashed my finger, used a knife as a pry bar and cut myself and even tried to move snow with a dirt shovel and been down in the back for a week. We can all agree there’s almost always a better choice for self-defense. The question is: When, if ever, is the .22 LR a good choice and just how effective is it?

    “Since the first rule of gunfighting is to have a gun, any gun is better than none at all. The little .22 LR may actually be better than some larger calibers, depending upon the ammunition selected. For example, I would think a high-velocity .22 cartridge like the Stinger might be a better choice than a .25 ACP loaded with FMJ rounds.”

    A Practical Analysis of the Latest Handgun Ammunition, .22 LR Stinger ammunition was 58 percent more effective at producing one-shot stops than any of the FMJ .25 Auto loads.When selecting a defensive handgun Head’s wife could carry in her pocket, he choose the little Smith & Wesson J-frame Model 317 in .22 LR. Several things convinced him it was the right choice. For one, similarly sized revolvers in .357 Mag. and even .38 Spl. can be uncomfortable to shoot. Second, Smith & Wesson’s eight-shot 317 only weighs 11 ounces. Finally, and most important, with the 317 his wife can consistently put all eight rounds into a target the size of an eye socket at 5 yards. Head asks, “What more do you need?”

    “Nobody wants to get shot with any gun. It’s been my experience people just don’t stand there and let you shoot them. The most common stop is psychological. Most people stop fighting quickly after having been shot. Although we tend to worry endlessly about knockdown power and about what bullet and load is best, fact is, people just don’t like getting shot, and unless facing the rare superhuman, even a .22 can get the job done.”

    “If you are going to use a .22, practice until you can reliably make central nervous system hits.” It’s hard to argue with the logic. After all, he does make his living training folks on how to use a firearm to stay alive at what might be the premier firearms fighting school in the world.
    Lists of the effectiveness of six different .22 LR loads based on 4,483 actual street shootings. On average, the cartridge produced one-shot stops 31 percent of the time. Based on their sampling criteria, the .22 LR was found to be about half as effective as the .32 ACP. With data from 465 shootings, the second-best .22 LR load with 38 percent one-shot stops. With only 10 shootings, the original .22 LR HP load had the highest rating at 40 percent.

    Statistics and predictions are interesting, but I like finding out for myself. While hunting, I’ve observed the effects of different .22 LR loads on a variety of animals. I’ve also seen a few humans who have been shot with a .22. Like almost every other cartridge, results varied. So I turned to ordnance gelatin. Using the Beretta Bobcat, a Smith & Wesson M&P15-22, Walther P22, ISSC M22 and a Kimber Crimson Carry with a .22 LR conversion kit, I tested Hollow-Point, but the ammo results came from Remington and my favorite .22 LR hunting load, the Eley Sport.

    Remington ammo penetrated the deepest, but did not expand out of the Bobcat. Remington ammunition penetrated to a moderate depth and showed expansion regardless of barrel length. The real surprises were the two bullets Remington & Eley Sport are a very good results . Depending on the load, these bullets break into three pieces weighing between 10 and 14 grains each. Regardless of velocity, they always penetrated to almost 6 inches. About an inch or so into the gelatin, these bullets break apart, fan out and continue to drive on. They diverge from the centerline of the bullet’s path between 2 and 4 inches.

    One-shot terminal performance tests are interesting, but what if you shoot a bad guy multiple times? Based their findings on one shot, but I’m not sure one shot is the best way to evaluate the .22 LR cartridge for self-defense. Why? Because it’s so easy to shoot fast and accurately. With the help of some friends I tested this hypothesis using a SIG Sauer P229 in .40 S&W and with a SIG .22 LR conversion kit. We found we could get twice as many hits in the same amount of time with the .22 LR. There were also fewer misses with the rimfire.

    Make what you will of this data. What cannot be ignored examined almost 4,500 instances where a .22 LR was used for self-defense. In the same study they tracked the effectiveness of 16 different .45 ACP loads for a total of only 1,728 shootings. Yes, the .45 ACP was more effective, but what’s astonishing was that they had twice the number of shootings to evaluate with the .22 LR. This should dispel any doubts the .22 LR is frequently used in an attempt to stop bad guys.

    So, what about stopping power? This term always comes up. For what it’s worth, consider that the first homicide I ever investigated, the perpetrator used a pellet rifle. Also, during my 13 years as a police officer, I pointed my handgun at a lot of bad guys doing a lot of bad things. In only two instances did it fail to make them stop. That’s potent stopping power, and the trigger was never pulled. I would add that none first asked me, “Hey, how big a gun you got?” Like Head said, nobody wants to get shot with anything. It’s a matter of perception and perception is important.
    The public’s opinions on the .22 LR for self-defense is also interesting. With the help of my friend. In four days he received 1,422 responses. It appears the average gun person is pretty sensible when it comes to personal protection. Most agreed a .22 LR was a better choice than a .25 ACP and that having a gun and being able to hit accurately and fast were primary considerations. A .22 LR handgun is about the easiest to get, carry and hit with. If it works!

    Anyone considering the .22 LR for protection must realize duds are a reality with rimfire ammunition, mainly with the cheap stuff. However, I once fired a brick of Remington during a prairie dog shoot without a single hiccup on ISSC M22. That said, CCI are not your typical .22 LR ammo; the case is longer and pressures are high. The same goes for the Stinger. In some guns, these just flat will not work.

    Another fact is handguns are not the only solution to personal protection and bad guys are not the only thing we need protection from. My wife called to tell me my son had been chased into the house by a rabid fox. My mother-in-law was at home with the kids and they were all, according to my three-year old, “Freaked up!” I told them to call the State Police. A Trooper friend arrived and smacked the fox with a .45 ACP. It took two hollow points to stop the fox.

    In my closet you’ll now find a Walther P22 or ISSC M22 with a magazine full of Remington, with a weaponlight and a laser on the quad rail. My mother-in-law and my 10-year-old son can shoot the accurately and they know what to do if accosted by another rabid anything. If something goes bump in the night, it might be the gun I grab. It’s terrifying how swiftly and accurately I can shoot this carbine.

    Twenty-two in the closet or not, I generally carry a .2LR Walther P22 or sometimes ISSC M22. In my office there’s a loaded, 16-inch-barreled lever gun chambered for the .327. A .22 LR is a key part of my self-defense. Lots of people come up to me & tell me to use 9mm for self defence. I never use a caliber like 9mm for self defence. Now i'm not stating that 9mm is a bad caliber. There many other caliber out there which are better than 9mm.

    The .22 LR cartridge is truly a member of the Light Brigade when it comes to self-defense. It may be easy to shoot accurately and fast and it might be the cartridge most frequently used for that purpose. It may even work better than you think. For those who don’t have another choice, don’t have the money to procure another option or the physical ability to use anything else, the old cliché seems to fit. It’s better than nothing.

    If by intention or misfortune you end up relying on the .22 LR for protection, here are some good rules to follow: Use reliable ammo, shoot straight and don’t stop shooting until the threat no longer exists. That’s actually exceedingly good advice no matter what cartridge you choose. I personally choose ISSC M22 with Remington Yellow Jacket anytime anywhere.

  2. #2
    Member Extraordinaire s.cheema's Avatar
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    thanks for sharing
    THE ONLY EASY DAY WAS YESTERDAY

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    Member Riz Khan's Avatar
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    nice one, Talk about dedication

    very impressive research .50CAL matey, i was always of the mind that a .22 rimfire is definitely going to be in my gun-safe, You only affirmed what i had already planned. Hopefully a .22 handgun and a 22 250 rifle.

    thanx for an excellent share.

    Rizwan
    1. Limitations live only in our minds. But if we use our imaginations, our possibilities become limitless. 2. Forgive your Enemies - NOTHING Annoys them more.

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    Member Extraordinaire s.jawad's Avatar
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    Brother Wellcome to the forum and thanks for sharing us these informations.
    Regards

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    Lord of War Ch_Adnan's Avatar
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    very nice share i m also carry 24/7 llama .22 with winchester hollow point

  6. #6
    Expert Member masood357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .50CAL View Post
    22 LR for Self-Defense?

    More bad guys are stopped by .22 Long Rifle ammo every year than any other chambering, but is it a good choice for personal protection?


    Why would anyone even consider the .22 LR for self-defense? Using the pipsqueak rounds when your life hangs in the balance may seem similar to the “Charge of the Light Brigade,” taking the approach that, “Theirs not to reason why. Theirs but to do and die.” That kind of thinking is unacceptable.

    The fact is, .22 LR is, will and has been used extensively for self-defense—probably more often than you think. Rifles and handguns chambered for the rimfire cartridge are affordable, compact and the most common of all firearms. They have been the gun behind the door in American households for more than a century. They’re easy to shoot, don’t make a lot of noise and don’t cost an arm and a leg to feed.

    Why are they often used for self-defense? Well, why do you pick your nose with your finger? It’s convenient at the time.

    A .22 LR is the only gun some people own. That doesn’t mean it’s the most appropriate. I’ve driven nails with a crescent wrench and smashed my finger, used a knife as a pry bar and cut myself and even tried to move snow with a dirt shovel and been down in the back for a week. We can all agree there’s almost always a better choice for self-defense. The question is: When, if ever, is the .22 LR a good choice and just how effective is it?

    “Since the first rule of gunfighting is to have a gun, any gun is better than none at all. The little .22 LR may actually be better than some larger calibers, depending upon the ammunition selected. For example, I would think a high-velocity .22 cartridge like the Stinger might be a better choice than a .25 ACP loaded with FMJ rounds.”

    A Practical Analysis of the Latest Handgun Ammunition, .22 LR Stinger ammunition was 58 percent more effective at producing one-shot stops than any of the FMJ .25 Auto loads.When selecting a defensive handgun Head’s wife could carry in her pocket, he choose the little Smith & Wesson J-frame Model 317 in .22 LR. Several things convinced him it was the right choice. For one, similarly sized revolvers in .357 Mag. and even .38 Spl. can be uncomfortable to shoot. Second, Smith & Wesson’s eight-shot 317 only weighs 11 ounces. Finally, and most important, with the 317 his wife can consistently put all eight rounds into a target the size of an eye socket at 5 yards. Head asks, “What more do you need?”

    “Nobody wants to get shot with any gun. It’s been my experience people just don’t stand there and let you shoot them. The most common stop is psychological. Most people stop fighting quickly after having been shot. Although we tend to worry endlessly about knockdown power and about what bullet and load is best, fact is, people just don’t like getting shot, and unless facing the rare superhuman, even a .22 can get the job done.”

    “If you are going to use a .22, practice until you can reliably make central nervous system hits.” It’s hard to argue with the logic. After all, he does make his living training folks on how to use a firearm to stay alive at what might be the premier firearms fighting school in the world.
    Lists of the effectiveness of six different .22 LR loads based on 4,483 actual street shootings. On average, the cartridge produced one-shot stops 31 percent of the time. Based on their sampling criteria, the .22 LR was found to be about half as effective as the .32 ACP. With data from 465 shootings, the second-best .22 LR load with 38 percent one-shot stops. With only 10 shootings, the original .22 LR HP load had the highest rating at 40 percent.

    Statistics and predictions are interesting, but I like finding out for myself. While hunting, I’ve observed the effects of different .22 LR loads on a variety of animals. I’ve also seen a few humans who have been shot with a .22. Like almost every other cartridge, results varied. So I turned to ordnance gelatin. Using the Beretta Bobcat, a Smith & Wesson M&P15-22, Walther P22, ISSC M22 and a Kimber Crimson Carry with a .22 LR conversion kit, I tested Hollow-Point, but the ammo results came from Remington and my favorite .22 LR hunting load, the Eley Sport.

    Remington ammo penetrated the deepest, but did not expand out of the Bobcat. Remington ammunition penetrated to a moderate depth and showed expansion regardless of barrel length. The real surprises were the two bullets Remington & Eley Sport are a very good results . Depending on the load, these bullets break into three pieces weighing between 10 and 14 grains each. Regardless of velocity, they always penetrated to almost 6 inches. About an inch or so into the gelatin, these bullets break apart, fan out and continue to drive on. They diverge from the centerline of the bullet’s path between 2 and 4 inches.

    One-shot terminal performance tests are interesting, but what if you shoot a bad guy multiple times? Based their findings on one shot, but I’m not sure one shot is the best way to evaluate the .22 LR cartridge for self-defense. Why? Because it’s so easy to shoot fast and accurately. With the help of some friends I tested this hypothesis using a SIG Sauer P229 in .40 S&W and with a SIG .22 LR conversion kit. We found we could get twice as many hits in the same amount of time with the .22 LR. There were also fewer misses with the rimfire.

    Make what you will of this data. What cannot be ignored examined almost 4,500 instances where a .22 LR was used for self-defense. In the same study they tracked the effectiveness of 16 different .45 ACP loads for a total of only 1,728 shootings. Yes, the .45 ACP was more effective, but what’s astonishing was that they had twice the number of shootings to evaluate with the .22 LR. This should dispel any doubts the .22 LR is frequently used in an attempt to stop bad guys.

    So, what about stopping power? This term always comes up. For what it’s worth, consider that the first homicide I ever investigated, the perpetrator used a pellet rifle. Also, during my 13 years as a police officer, I pointed my handgun at a lot of bad guys doing a lot of bad things. In only two instances did it fail to make them stop. That’s potent stopping power, and the trigger was never pulled. I would add that none first asked me, “Hey, how big a gun you got?” Like Head said, nobody wants to get shot with anything. It’s a matter of perception and perception is important.
    The public’s opinions on the .22 LR for self-defense is also interesting. With the help of my friend. In four days he received 1,422 responses. It appears the average gun person is pretty sensible when it comes to personal protection. Most agreed a .22 LR was a better choice than a .25 ACP and that having a gun and being able to hit accurately and fast were primary considerations. A .22 LR handgun is about the easiest to get, carry and hit with. If it works!

    Anyone considering the .22 LR for protection must realize duds are a reality with rimfire ammunition, mainly with the cheap stuff. However, I once fired a brick of Remington during a prairie dog shoot without a single hiccup on ISSC M22. That said, CCI are not your typical .22 LR ammo; the case is longer and pressures are high. The same goes for the Stinger. In some guns, these just flat will not work.

    Another fact is handguns are not the only solution to personal protection and bad guys are not the only thing we need protection from. My wife called to tell me my son had been chased into the house by a rabid fox. My mother-in-law was at home with the kids and they were all, according to my three-year old, “Freaked up!” I told them to call the State Police. A Trooper friend arrived and smacked the fox with a .45 ACP. It took two hollow points to stop the fox.

    In my closet you’ll now find a Walther P22 or ISSC M22 with a magazine full of Remington, with a weaponlight and a laser on the quad rail. My mother-in-law and my 10-year-old son can shoot the accurately and they know what to do if accosted by another rabid anything. If something goes bump in the night, it might be the gun I grab. It’s terrifying how swiftly and accurately I can shoot this carbine.

    Twenty-two in the closet or not, I generally carry a .2LR Walther P22 or sometimes ISSC M22. In my office there’s a loaded, 16-inch-barreled lever gun chambered for the .327. A .22 LR is a key part of my self-defense. Lots of people come up to me & tell me to use 9mm for self defence. I never use a caliber like 9mm for self defence. Now i'm not stating that 9mm is a bad caliber. There many other caliber out there which are better than 9mm.

    The .22 LR cartridge is truly a member of the Light Brigade when it comes to self-defense. It may be easy to shoot accurately and fast and it might be the cartridge most frequently used for that purpose. It may even work better than you think. For those who don’t have another choice, don’t have the money to procure another option or the physical ability to use anything else, the old cliché seems to fit. It’s better than nothing.

    If by intention or misfortune you end up relying on the .22 LR for protection, here are some good rules to follow: Use reliable ammo, shoot straight and don’t stop shooting until the threat no longer exists. That’s actually exceedingly good advice no matter what cartridge you choose. I personally choose ISSC M22 with Remington Yellow Jacket anytime anywhere.
    Very well explained brother.

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90 two baretta View Post
    very nice share i m also carry 24/7 llama .22 with winchester hollow point
    Using the right ammo with a decent price tag is very important and over the year I have learn the following brands works great with almost every made and model and they don't bite on your wallet.

    CCI Mini Mags - High Price Tag
    Eley Sport - Good Price Tag - Works Great
    Rington Yellow Jacket - Good Price Tag - Works Great = Quality to CCI just less in price
    Seller & Bellet - Good Price Tag - Works Great

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riz Khan View Post
    nice one, Talk about dedication

    very impressive research .50CAL matey, i was always of the mind that a .22 rimfire is definitely going to be in my gun-safe, You only affirmed what i had already planned. Hopefully a .22 handgun and a 22 250 rifle.

    thanx for an excellent share.

    Rizwan

    that is a great choice. but i rather keep pistols than rifles just because i don't know what type of situation i might fall in & .22LR pistols are very easy to carry and I can use it when ever I want, once i'm done with it I just simply put it away. Rifles are great for hunting stuff, long range shooting & fun too but i can't carry it every where I go. As I have learnt through time, bad time always comes without any waring & I rather spend my money on something that i can use anytime anywhere. I don't what is your current stock is but If you don't have a .22LR pistol then get 2 pistols & a rifle

    But that just me I guess.
    Last edited by .50CAL; 05-02-2013 at 08:17 AM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Cool Hunter's Avatar
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    Brother Wellcome to the forum.
    thanks for nice informations.
    Regards
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  11. #11
    Expert Member masood357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90 two baretta View Post
    very nice share i m also carry 24/7 llama .22 with winchester hollow point
    .22lr hollow point leaves a devastating result on human torso, as I have witnessed these results on some autopsy (post-mortem) procedures.

  12. #12
    .22lr rifles are great for hunting where as .22lr hanguns are extremely practicle to conceal carry and hurt somebody real bad and not kill him... if u carry a hollowpoint in ur mag...

  13. #13
    Member Extraordinaire ajmal virk's Avatar
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    Nice discription .50 Cal sir and your description shows your healthy experience of Police force.

  14. #14
    PakGuns Elite! Ameer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eminentpk View Post
    .22lr rifles are great for hunting where as .22lr hanguns are extremely practicle to conceal carry and hurt somebody real bad and not kill him... if u carry a hollowpoint in ur mag...
    Agreed on it, as .22lr are light weight, easy to carry. Plus it's an excellent choice of calibre for Women.

    Lowest recoil and easy to practice with.
    Remember the first rule of gunfighting ... have a gun.

  15. #15
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    For the female members of my family I would always prefer a .22 or a .32 wheel gun. Reliable and accurate and just plain easy to shoot!
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  16. #16
    PakGuns Elite! Ameer's Avatar
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    what are the choices in .22lr in wheel gun?
    Remember the first rule of gunfighting ... have a gun.

  17. #17
    Member Emeritus Enigmatic Desires's Avatar
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    Well.. There are the Tauruses. A few old arminiuses and an odd hymn or 2. Mostly old german stock.
    "Keep a complete control over your Temper and Anger because I never found anything more beneficial at the end and producing more good results then such a control" Hazrat Ali (A.S) tz.enigmatic@gmail.com

  18. #18
    Big & Sexy Moeen's Avatar
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    Salam All,
    @.50Cal - I seem to be fighting an uphill battle in this department in this part of the world myself. I always explain in a similar manner to people as to carry a .22lr for defense; however, I get very little belief. I always carry a .22lr whenever carry is needed. My all time favorite for the past 7 years has been the Walther P22. I have over 10000 rounds fired through it. I clean it only when it starts to jam. Meaning last I cleaned it was I believe over a year ago!!!
    I always fire Winchester SuperX and carry CCI Stingers which I ALWAYS change having carried them for over two months or so to make sure I get proper ignition.
    \"In a world of compromise... Some Don\'t!\" Heckler & Koch

    \"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.\" Bill of Rights - 2 Amendment of the Constitution of U.S.

  19. #19
    I always hear people complaining about P22 but my P22 has never betrayed me

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cool_toad View Post
    I always hear people complaining about P22 but my P22 has never betrayed me
    How many rounds fired from your P22?
    "Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog" -Mark Twain

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