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12GAUGE
13-05-2009, 02:01 AM
AoA Everybody.

Everyone who shoots shotguns (specially autoloaders) knows the importance of timely cleaning and menace of carbon buildup in the barrels, in the receiver, around the bolt and the firing pin.

Kindly allow me to write the formula of an inexpensive cleaner, its called Ed's Red. it contains two polar and two non polar solvents which will readily dissolve any carbon buildup and will leave your guns looking brand new. however i must insist on proper protection of the skin (wear gloves) and must insist on proper ventilation during mixing.

here it goes: equal parts of:

1. transmission oil, dexron II or dexron III
2. kerosene oil
3. mineral spirits
4. acetone

now store it in a large glass bottle. I use 1 liter pepsi glass bottle.

I've been using this cleaner for a long time now and i'm totally satisfied with the outcome, mix a batch for under 500 rupees and u'll have enough for a life time of regular use.

now if some of you didnt understand some of the components, allow me to simplify.

equal parts of :
1. Automatic transmission oil dexron II or dexron III
2. Kerosene Oil
3. Spirit from hardware store
4. Paint Thinner from Hardware store
mix all of the above in equal parts.

and one more thing you can do:

1. one part of kerosene oil
2. one part of automatic transmission oil DEXRON II/III

this will make an inexpensive firearm lubricant which is totally "Ed's Red" compatible. you can use it on any shotgun and will find this to be quiet adequate (infact more than enough) for your firearm lubrication and rust protection.

Kindly dont substitue Gear oil/motor oil/regular transmission oil for Dexron type II/III transmission oil. its presence is absolutely critical in both the formulas.

something on Automatic Transmissin oil for Firearm lubrication:
http://grantcunningham.com/lubricants101.html

its written by Grant Cunningham, he is a well known gunsmith around the world. I've talked with him, he is absolutely sold on transmission oil.

why?, because ATF contains
1. lubricating mineral/synthetic oil (more refined than motor oil/gear oil, smaller molecular size)
2. detergents and surfacetants (detergents clean carbon, surfacetants keep carbon and debris suspended and will make float away from any metal surface.
3. essential rust preventive chemicals to prevent rusting of the metal.
4. oxidation inhibitors to prevent the oil from evaporating over long periods of time.

try this: put a drop of ordinary machine oil, WD40 and automatic transmission oil DEXRON II/III on a hot motor cycle silencer/muffler. u'll notice that machine oil and WD40 oil will evaporate almost instantanously and ATF will stay there and will not evaporate, it turns out it is supposed to withstand 190 centigrades of temperature before evaporating.

remember: automatic transmission oil is designed to keep the automatic transmissions running for long periods of time without the need of any oil change or change of oil filter.

it is not my intention to steer you away from your high-dollar-value speciality cleaners and lubricants. by all means, use what you are using. i'm just sharing what i use and feel its worth recommending. it is also recommended by many known gunsmiths around the world (Ed harris, Grant Cunningham etc.). I've had many telephonic/email conversations with Grant Cunningham on the subject and I've managed to steer him into my direction. I use:



wonder lube (Phase 1 oil): add by volume
1. two parts dexron II/III ATF (ZIC ATF)
2. one part synthetic motor oil (ZIC XQ 5w40)
now call this mixture wonder lube

to make Pakguns Lubricant: : add by volume
1. two parts wonder lube (Phase 1 oil)
2. one part kerosene


the gun oil will now have exactly: 44.44% DEXRON II/III ATF, 22.22% synthetic motoroil, 33.33% kerosene oil. with this i've increased the viscosity a little, i've increased the flash point significantly, i've increased the overall viscosity index of the mixture. plus with the addition of synthetic oil, i've added polyalfaolefins to the mixture. PAO are known for their afinity for metals.

it wasnt easy convincing him, I had to show him flash points of both solutions(mine and standard Ed's Red oil), VI (viscosity index) of both solutions, and visocity of both solutions at both 40C/100F and 100C/212F. I can post lubrication data of my gun oil if you guyz want. I have successfully beaten hoppes, militec oil, break-free clp.

Regards.

TAREEN
13-05-2009, 09:35 AM
You have a professional way of writing things although forums are considered to be casual discussion platforms. Its convenient to read and an effective way to disseminate information. Appreciate it.

HassaanAfzal
13-05-2009, 10:36 AM
interesting

12GAUGE
13-05-2009, 12:35 PM
Thank you. I'm glad to be of assistance.

Regards.

Enigmatic Desires
13-05-2009, 09:37 PM
aswsome dude..

I have yet to see any one.. apply himself to his given hobby with such single minded devotion...

Shariq
13-05-2009, 09:52 PM
Sir i really enjoy reading your posts. Really informative.Thanks

Ka_Khan
13-05-2009, 11:06 PM
Great contribution,Excellent !
Just confused with the use of Paint Thinner in the formula...Do we have to take care of the painted/wooden parts?
Your next formula must be for the care of wood polish. :cool:

12GAUGE
13-05-2009, 11:22 PM
Great contribution,Excellent !
Just confused with the use of Paint Thinner in the formula...Do we have to take care of the painted/wooden parts?
Your next formula must be for the care of wood polish.

yes Ka_Khan, you are right, paint thinner will damage the finish on wood and painted parts of a gun. but i've been using the solution on my wood guns and havent had any problems so far. as far as painted guns are concerned, why would somebody paint their gun in the first place?, gun bluing/powder coating/chrome/nickle plating and almost all other types of new-age coatings are totally safe from it. even wood is safe as long as you dont prolong the contact of the cleaner with wood surface. even WD40 is deadly for wood if left for long.

Regards.

Ka_Khan
13-05-2009, 11:28 PM
Thanx for the update.

12GAUGE
13-05-2009, 11:53 PM
No problem friend.

i'm glad to be of assistance.

Regards.

Bluff
14-05-2009, 10:35 AM
@12 guage...Nice contribution bhai

Ka_Khan
14-05-2009, 08:26 PM
May be PakGuns comes up with its own brand of CLP for Guns !

Conceal Carry
14-05-2009, 11:03 PM
thanks for sharing 12Guage. when you say mix equal parts, is it equal by weight or by volume? pls clarify. Is it good for shotguns only or can it be used on other firearms i.e., handguns, rifles, carbines, etc. ?

12GAUGE
14-05-2009, 11:40 PM
when you say mix equal parts, is it equal by weight or by volume? pls clarify. Is it good for shotguns only or can it be used on other firearms i.e., handguns, rifles, carbines, etc. ?

its equal by volume my friend. I use measuring beakers similir to these.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/12/Beakers.jpg/607px-Beakers.jpg

however you can also use a discarded water glass, jug or whatever that comes to your fancy.

A beaker however makes the job of precisely measuring alot easier.

Regards.

Glocky
14-05-2009, 11:49 PM
Would this damage polymer or plastic parts ?

ChocTalpur
15-05-2009, 12:18 AM
One thing i'd like to confirm from you about double barrels here 12 ga. They say that putting oil in the metal area of the gun, (where the lumps are adjusted, where the actual assembly is) the oil actually leaks in the stock ultimately resulting a LACHAK in the gun. And that a better way to oil your gun instead is get an expert gunsmith do internal greasing.

Hope i'm able to clear the question.

12GAUGE
15-05-2009, 01:07 AM
One thing i'd like to confirm from you about double barrels here 12 ga. They say that putting oil in the metal area of the gun, (where the lumps are adjusted, where the actual assembly is) the oil actually leaks in the stock ultimately resulting a LACHAK in the gun. And that a better way to oil your gun instead is get an expert gunsmith do internal greasing.

Hope i'm able to clear the question.

never ever go for grease in a gun, lemme say that again, ABSOLUTELY NO GREASE. now comming to your question: oil seeping into the wood will cause it the swell, will cause it up to soften up and will cause it to crack under pressure, yes, that is a universial problem with any kind of kind of wood and oil combination, even water can cause wood to do all sorts of nasty things.

oiling of the receiver and its internals are absolutely necessary, but the trick is to open up the boxlock/sidelock receiver of a double barrel, apply oil lightly and use compressed air from air cannister (available at general hardware stores) to blow the excess away. and before storing the gun in its usuall position, it is recommended to stand the gun upside down (barrel facing down) for a couple of hours so that any excess oil would run into the barrel instead of the buttstock. this problem is not only associated to my oil its a universal problem.

second: grease is highly recommended on the chokes and barrel hinges, dont use grease on any part where rapid movement is involved, grease slows down the action of firing pin, it slows down the cycling rate if used in the action of a semi auto. plus, grease can collect dirt, debris and carbon, turning into a lapping compound that eats away the metal. u dont want your gun to wear out prematuraly.

there is a reason why a car engine is lubricated with oil instead of grease and ball-joints and axles are lubricated with grease. grease is simple oil mixed with a suspending soap to convert it into a semi-solid form from the liquid form of an oil. car engine is a high speed machine (hence oil lubricated), ball-joints and axle are slow speed but high pressure machines (hence grease lubricated). ever noticed what happens to a ball joint, axle, universal joint (commonly called goda in pakistan) whose rubber boot gets punctured. dirt and carbon mixed with grease forms a lapping compounds which eats the goday in no time. hence it is recommended to replace a broken boot as soon as possible along with changing of the goda grease.

with that explaination now u know why chokes tubes are highly recommended to be lubricated with grease (moly grease only, go to any auto parts store and buy one, it is black in color). choke tubes are stationary objects that simply sit in their desired position and face high barrel pressures. oil under such pressure will squeeze out of the choke threads and will cause the choke tubes to be stuck in permanently, any guy who uses shotguns knows that getting a stuck choke out is a painful proceedure (for the operator and the gun).


Would this damage polymer or plastic parts ?

it will harm polymers only if you use industrial strength acetone instead of paint thinner, other than that, it will not harm polymer as long as you dont leave it on a polymer part for a long time. I've been using it on wood and polymer for quiet a long time now and i'm totally satisfied. my friends are totally satisfied whom i've recommended and are using this mixture, my oil however is totally safe, use it blindly.

I can post complete technical details of my oil and how it offers additional benefits than WD40, hoppes and militec oil. it is a different topic altogether. however i will say this: a quiet alot of research and physical tests were conducted on my oil before I started using it and recommending it.

Regards.

p.s. about the effectiveness of the solution is concerned, i've turned my heavily used barrels in brand new barrels with this. i've won a bet with the elder brother of a friend of mine, he dared me to clean his 1950s steven dbbl. the gun was previously cleaned using conventional methods: a bore snake and a dab of WD40. i used bore light to show that bore was dirty as hell, even though using conventional way (looking through the bore with one eye closed while aiming at a light source) of inspecting bore was showing clean/mirror barrel. once i was done, the barrel was shinning so much u couldnt even tell if it was ever used. tears came into his father eyes after seeing the barrel so brand new. he remembered his father (my friends grandpa) and how much he cherished this gun.

12GAUGE
15-05-2009, 01:23 AM
how about this? i'll write detail articles on FP with all the techinal data and physical test reports on Ed's Red gun cleaner and my version of Ed's red gun oil. remember i've sucessfully beaten know major gun oil brands in the test conducteds at SES laboratory.

plus i've made so many exotic shotgun ammo cartridges myself and can write about them too.

Regards.

Glocky
15-05-2009, 01:42 AM
@12gauge, you have increased my knowledge regarding availability of moly grease and compressed air will check out the hardware and auto parts store. thank you

Ka_Khan
15-05-2009, 02:14 AM
how about this? i'll write detail articles on FP with all the techinal data and physical test reports on Ed's Red gun cleaner and my version of Ed's red gun oil. remember i've sucessfully beaten know major gun oil brands in the test conducteds at SES laboratory.

plus i've made so many exotic shotgun ammo cartridges myself and can write about them too.

Regards.


Full of knowledge !
We are lucky to have you with us 12 guage.
Gun cleaning oil by our own member should be featured item in the FP magazine.
We would also like to know about your home made cartridges.

Ilyas
15-05-2009, 02:30 AM
@12 gauge... knowledge you have is quite amazing and the way you pen it down is
really impressive :)
And after doing this greasing with words (although it's true and without any doubt, well deserved) I hope
I'm getting some oil for my guns, if you are coming to the Peshawar gtg :)

12GAUGE
15-05-2009, 12:32 PM
We would also like to know about your home made cartridges.

I've made mostly exotic ammo shotgun shell. my first one was Rock salt, when fired it throws rock salt at the assailant at high speed and temperature supposidly causeing severe burning sensation but no permanent harm.

I've made rubber slugs supposidly knock down an opponent, its also less-then-lethal. no permanent harm (i'm assuming the rubber slug to be fired at chest/legs no head shot).

there were plenty more, some were good ideas (rubber, rock salt) other were just plain stupid (nails, blades etc).

currently i'm working on a low weight, high velocity, flatter trajectory, around 3,000 ft/lbs of energy foster type slug which can be safely fired through any degree of choke (i'm actually aiming for extra full choke). I've designed it totally by myself however the tappered head is being designed by my cousin (mechanical engineer specializes in wind drag/resistance) who is calculating the degree of the tapper of the slug head while keeping the coefficient of drag to the minimum to ensure lower wind resistance hence resulting in flatter trajectory. I've made and successfully fired slugs before but this time i'm aiming for 100 yards plus slug. and my approach this time is highly professional.

here is the paperwork that i've done so far:

http://www.postimage.org/gxPhpjS-aec6f9d35b5402c8806a3bd5fee384a1.jpg

it looks simple i know, but to get to these dimensions it took me almost one month of paper work and had to request the services of a maths/physics genius and had to consult with few reputable slug manufacturers.


foster type slug dimensions:

weight: min 25grams to 28grams
length: 17mm
dia: 17mm
cavity dia. 12mm
cavity depth. 12mm

cavity is subjective to weight constraint, the slug is being designed to achieve following objectives:

1. 100 yards plus effective range with reasonable accuracy
2. safe to shoot even from extra full choke
3. safe to shoot from local (desi) barrels
4. to only require normal trap hulls or No. 4 shot cup wad
5. to require standard shot charge.
6. to achieve higher velocity and flatter trajectory by keeping the weight low.
7. minimum of 3,000 ft/lbs of energy delivered at the target at 50 yards
8. cost of making should be as low as possible.

Regards.

p.s. kindly look into my design and see if you can add anything i'll greatly appreciate it.

ChocTalpur
15-05-2009, 01:13 PM
We would also like to know about your home made cartridges.

I've made mostly exotic ammo shotgun shell. my first one was Rock salt, when fired it throws rock salt at the assailant at high speed and temperature supposidly causeing severe burning sensation but no permanent harm.

I've made rubber slugs supposidly knock down an opponent, its also less-then-lethal. no permanent harm (i'm assuming the rubber slug to be fired at chest/legs no head shot).

there were plenty more, some were good ideas (rubber, rock salt) other were just plain stupid (nails, blades etc).

currently i'm working on a low weight, high velocity, flatter trajectory, around 3,000 ft/lbs of energy foster type slug which can be safely fired through any degree of choke (i'm actually aiming for extra full choke). I've designed it totally by myself however the tappered head is being designed by my cousin (mechanical engineer specializes in wind drag/resistance) who is calculating the degree of the tapper of the slug head while keeping the coefficient of drag to the minimum to ensure lower wind resistance hence resulting in flatter trajectory. I've made and successfully fired slugs before but this time i'm aiming for 100 yards plus slug. and my approach this time is highly professional.

here is the paperwork that i've done so far:

http://www.postimage.org/gxPhpjS-aec6f9d35b5402c8806a3bd5fee384a1.jpg

it looks simple i know, but to get to these dimensions it took me almost one month of paper work and had to request the services of a maths/physics genius and had to consult with few reputable slug manufacturers.


foster type slug dimensions:

weight: min 25grams to 28grams
length: 17mm
dia: 17mm
cavity dia. 12mm
cavity depth. 12mm

cavity is subjective to weight constraint, the slug is being designed to achieve following objectives:

1. 100 yards plus effective range with reasonable accuracy
2. safe to shoot even from extra full choke
3. safe to shoot from local (desi) barrels
4. to only require normal trap hulls or No. 4 shot cup wad
5. to require standard shot charge.
6. to achieve higher velocity and flatter trajectory by keeping the weight low.
7. minimum of 3,000 ft/lbs of energy delivered at the target at 50 yards
8. cost of making should be as low as possible.

Regards.

p.s. kindly look into my design and see if you can add anything i'll greatly appreciate it.


Good Luck with all your positive idea.

Regards.

Glocky
24-05-2009, 07:35 PM
@12 gauge, Well i tried the ed's red mixture minus the thinner as i read from other sources that it could be left out at the expense of losing the fast acting process. The solution looks like rooh-afza in milk. :/

The solution does separate into two distinct solutions when left to settle in a bottle, is this normal ?

Ka_Khan
24-05-2009, 08:19 PM
@12 gauge, Well i tried the ed's red mixture minus the thinner as i read from other sources that it could be left out at the expense of losing the fast acting process. The solution looks like rooh-afza in milk. :/

The solution does separate into two distinct solutions when left to settle in a bottle, is this normal ?

I hope you dont taste it.I will soon be making this 'roo-afza' also.

Glocky
24-05-2009, 08:26 PM
I hope you dont taste it.I will soon be making this 'roo-afza' also.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Ka_Khan
24-05-2009, 08:42 PM
now store it in a large glass bottle. I use 1 liter pepsi glass bottle.

I've been using this cleaner for a long time now and i'm totally satisfied with the outcome, mix a batch for under 500 rupees and u'll have enough for a life time of regular use.

@12 guage...Any Expiry period?
@Glocky...How much this 'rooh afza' cost you? :D

Glocky
24-05-2009, 08:53 PM
Rs. 400/= for the ATF
Rs. 70/ for kerosene oil
Rs. 60 for the spirit

for 1 litre of each

12GAUGE
24-05-2009, 10:52 PM
@12 gauge, Well i tried the ed's red mixture minus the thinner as i read from other sources that it could be left out at the expense of losing the fast acting process. The solution looks like rooh-afza in milk.

The solution does separate into two distinct solutions when left to settle in a bottle, is this normal ?

yes, thinner can be left out, but dont leave it out, In my experience, its absence lowers the effectiveness/power of the mixture. the thinner is not equal in strength to industrial grade acetone or methylethylketone (MEK), so dont worry about it.

and yes, the solution does seperate into layers when left out, its pretty normal, just a good shake before use is all it takes.

Regards.

12GAUGE
24-05-2009, 10:54 PM
@12 guage...Any Expiry period?

I made my last batch over four years ago, still working just as fine.

however i must insist on mixing only managable quanitities of the stuff. i learned the hard way that its practically very difficut to store gallons at a time.

Regards.

ay_be_why
25-05-2009, 01:12 PM
@12gauge, sir what do you think about ENGINE oil as a lubricant? i have no experience with it on guns but other than that, it does an amazing job as a lubricant...

9mm Luger
25-05-2009, 07:30 PM
very nice info...

lemme add my recepie as well ( nointention of hijacking the post!!)

I add 1 part each of:

Dexron 2 or 3
10 W not 5 W synthetic motor oil (my mistake I apologize for that!)
STP oil treatment

this is my basic gun oil for cleaning all i do is mix the above with equal amount of kerosene... dump my gun in it for 1/2 to 1 hr and then wipe out everything!

12GAUGE
25-05-2009, 07:39 PM
engine oil is good lubricant, but only good enough, firearm lubricant is supposed to lubricate plus protect against rust (oxidation). engine oil may be a good lubricant it doesnt protect against rust.

you can search articles about this issue over the internet. allow me to summarize what u'll find:

engine oil good lubricant but bad rust preventive. hence automatic transmission oil is highly recommended, its formulation closely resembles (actually does more than required) a firearm lube. it has all the anti-oxidant stuff, plus it has detergents to clean as well as lube, its have surfacetants to float the dirt away from metal surface, it resists open-air oxidation (meaning it will not evaporate) plus alota other stuff. search and u'll have u'r answer.


try this: engine oil is designed to lube and replaced after every 3-5K kilometers. on the other hand, an ATF is designed to be replaced after 50K kilometers. so basically, ATF has to do the same job but for a longer period of time. and guess what?, ATF doesnt come with oil filter, it has to do that job too on its own. techically, ATF is just alot more refined form of engine oil and has alot more additives added to it.

Regards.

12GAUGE
25-05-2009, 07:55 PM
very nice info...

lemme add my recepie as well ( nointention of hijacking the post!!)

I add 1 part each of:

Dexron 2 or 3
5 W synthetic motor oil
STP oil treatment


this is my basic gun oil for cleaning all i do is mix the above with equal amount of kerosene... dump my gun in it for 1/2 to 1 hr and then wipe out everything!

question 1: why add STP oil treatment, it will make u'r lube as thick as honey. not recommended or advised. plus, take out material safety data sheets of STP, it has known carcinogenics(stuff that causes cancer) in them.

question 2: why make it intentionally thick and then thin it with kerosene?

question 3: where did u get straight weight motor oil in Pakistan, i would very much like to know.

question 4: u mix all this just for cleaning, do u even know that the only cleaning substance u got in u'r formula is just kerosene (which is only polar in nature). why not use plain kerosene if u only want a good polar solvent.

my take would be: u just copied the formula off the internet and didnt consult any chemical expert on this. I'm a total noob myself thats why I higly rely on expert help.

my suggestion: bro, u'r wasting money and unnecessary chemicals for stuff that u can do alot cheaper and faster.

stay away from STP, it contains benzene to thicken the oil (now u know why i asked where u got such water thin oil in Pakistan in the first place). benzene is known human carcinogen.

if u have any questions for me, kindly ask without any hesitation, I'll gladly answer any questions that u may have. my love for shotguns and my inquisitive nature has benefited me as i've talked and met alot of people regarding the subject above.

Regards.

Ka_Khan
25-05-2009, 08:32 PM
@12 Guage...its good that we have such an expert with us.Do share your cartridge making skills in a separate thread.

12GAUGE
25-05-2009, 09:17 PM
@12 Guage...its good that we have such an expert with us.Do share your cartridge making skills in a separate thread.

will do my friend, will do

Regards.

ay_be_why
25-05-2009, 11:07 PM
...try this: engine oil is designed to lube and replaced after every 3-5K kilometers. on the other hand, an ATF is designed to be replaced after 50K kilometers. so basically, ATF has to do the same job but for a longer period of time. and guess what?, ATF doesnt come with oil filter, it has to do that job too on its own. techically, ATF is just alot more refined form of engine oil and has alot more additives added to it.

Regards.

spot on sir, thanks.. why google around when you're here.. :)

12GAUGE
25-05-2009, 11:20 PM
@ay_be_why

Thank you sir, i'm glad to be of assistance

Regards.

9mm Luger
26-05-2009, 09:30 PM
Actually I guess I didnt explain it to you clearly... note i didnt go out and spend hrs on phone and stuff for some thing you could get off the internet mix it and try it and hell yeah if it didnt work chuck it out and try something else

the formula i wrote is a basic gun oil... KINDLY this must be remebered at all times

why add STP?? well to make it cling and yea I mean cling so that it doesnt run off the rails..

let m also add that if benzene is a human carcinogen then thinner doesnt do any good either to your health kindly follow the link below to find more about thinner effects:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1J-4FWK6HK-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=f9aaa80d008940e3989306921c63c4cc

with due respect any solvent may it be benzene or thinner is not good for ones health you need to wear protective gloves...

Lets b straight on this "all solvents are bad" follow the link here to see their effects
http://www.inchem.org/documents/iarc/vol47/47-01.html

PPL in US use Mobil 1 oil on their gun .. wont try it myself but yeah ppl do!!

Your second question why thin it with kersone oil simple when i need to clean my firearm i add kersone as a solvent because the original recepie is not a cleaning agent but by adding kersone to it you can make one out of it simple!! the oil in there lubricates and the kersone cleans and yes I DO KNOW THAT KEROSNE IS THE ONLY CLEANING AGENT IN THERE AND THAT IS ENOUGH FOR US MORTALS who sparingly use their guns!!

ALSO WHEN I SAID "SYNTHETIC OIL" that means it cant be a straight Weight it will be a multigrade!! by 5 or 10 I like the originator of this homemade recepie giving an idea and thats all!! .. we are talking common stuff its no rocket science even if you get mineral oil and add it it wont make that much effect ... synthetic because it will react better under high temprature (viscosity)

ALSO THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK THE ENGINE OIL FACES EXTREME PRESSURE TEMPERATURE INSIDE AN ENGINE.. does one really think the oil will be subjected to the same amount of stress and temperature continously in a firearm?? NO WAY IS MY ANSWER
we need to compare apples with apples here... and to clarify the same synthetic oils that needs to be changed here can be used in other places for longer..because we have a dusty enviorment.. the oil gets sticky quicker here.. but the lubrication is there!!


WHY ADD ATF.. as you mentioned better rust protection and cleaning!

I use this formula on my Taurus 24/7 and am satisfied with it...

needless to add that the ED red you have mentioned is a very good home recepie it wont hurt nickel or blue finish but try a bit on wood and the acetone in it will ruin it like anything

I think I have clarified more than enough.. your happy with red i am with this mix no offence bro but suggesting i just got off the web well thats just not the case!! kindly refrain from such assumptions..we are all here to discuss and share knowledge with each other and I am trying to do so in a civilzed manner and would warrant the same from all other members!

I am using it and if you want some kindly PM me your address and i will send a free sample

good day to you sire!

and i do apologize for my preceived harshness but i am gobsmacked at your comments on me taking something off the internet and placing it here! no hard feelins mate lets discuss what we all love FIREARMS!!

9mm Luger
26-05-2009, 09:34 PM
and to further add kindly follow the link below to find most of the home made recpies out theregive them a try and share your comments with us right here at PG

www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm (http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm)

mine is under gun oil !!

the idea to use it with kerosene i will attribute to jillanisb our dear member while he was explaining how to get rid off rust by adding equal amount of oil and kersone!! i tried it and liked the result so thought i share it with you all!!

Conceal Carry
27-05-2009, 12:12 AM
nice site, thnks for sharing 9mm Luger

Ka_Khan
27-05-2009, 12:18 AM
9mm really nice informative site.Have remedies for all problems.Remember in early days someone was asking about how to clean copper from his gun and could not get answer.If he is still around he could do it now.

12GAUGE
27-05-2009, 01:39 AM
Actually I guess I didnt explain it to you clearly... note i didnt go out and spend hrs on phone and stuff for some thing you could get off the internet mix it and try it and hell yeah if it didnt work chuck it out and try something else

now u know why i aked you to stop copying stuff off the internet, discuss it with some professional in that field, atleast before recommending others. and about spending hours on phone discussing this kinda stuff, try it. u'll love it brother.

my point: dont just copy, talk to somebody nothing short of an expert in that field. i'm no expert thats why highly rely on expert help. no harm in consulting somebody who has first hand experience (such as lubrication engineer, MOBIL's plant manager in Quetta or a firearms lubrication expert such as Grant Cunningham)


the formula i wrote is a basic gun oil... KINDLY this must be remebered at all times

ok, so we are talking about gun oil only now :/


ALSO WHEN I SAID "SYNTHETIC OIL" that means it cant be a straight Weight it will be a multigrade!! by 5 or 10 I like the originator of this homemade recepie giving an idea and thats all!! .. we are talking common stuff its no rocket science even if you get mineral oil and add it it wont make that much effect ... synthetic because it will react better under high temprature (viscosity)

to some part i agree, to others i dont, u said in u'r original quote "10W synthetic motor oil", the weight u'r giving is a straight weight formulation, i'm confused u said its multigrade, how?
secondly, which synthetic oil are we talking about? cause we are only interested in PAO based synthetic oils, a mineral oil will do the job, u'r right but it will leave a messy goo afterwards. hence i will not recommend mineral oil. however u'r right about, hoppes original recipe includes mineral oil with a solvent (deodrized kerosene).


because we have a dusty enviorment.. the oil gets sticky quicker here.. but the lubrication is there!!


engine oil doesnt not get any dust in it after use, a vehicle's engine is a closed system, oil doesnt contact air in anyway. oil gets goo-ey/dirty due to the carbon suspended in it. carbon gets in there due to elevated piston ring temperatures, thats where oil meets rings and oxidizes/burns(unintentionally ofcourse).

who told me all this: mobil pakistan's plant engineer at quetta plant. see? consulting an expert always helps.


et m also add that if benzene is a human carcinogen then thinner doesnt do any good either to your health kindly follow the link below to find more about thinner effects:

here i agree with u, but the thinner is only in cleaner recipe, not in the lube. in ur case benzene is both in cleaner and lube. guess what? benzene is 141 time more suspectible carcinogenic (Center of disease control)


I use this formula on my Taurus 24/7 and am satisfied with it...

i've searched over the internet, u r talking about a pistol, my apologies for the lack of knowledge in pistols, however...........I must say, we are talking about HOW TO CLEAN YOUR SHOTGUNS. ;)

as far as u'r particular recipe is concerned, I have tried it as well and found the lube to be too thick for shotguns, can u post viscosity index of u'r lube before recommending, i can, kindly allow me, tested at SES ofcourse (see?, expert help again). i never recommend anything before getting it certified/approved/tested.

my lube's viscosity at 100F/40C = 32.9
my lube's viscosity at 212F/100C = 6.16
viscosity index = 177.67
Flash Point = 419F

again if u allow me, i can post results of u'r recipe as well, u dont think i sent only one recipe for testing, did you? and another thing: i can post results of hoppes and militec-1, guess what? my lube won big time. now thats not talk, i've got results to back my claim. its not something, "ooo! this lube works great, i'll use it from now". results my friend, concrete results are a must.

i can see that u use u'r lube for pistols, hmm..... somebody told me mix ATF with moly grease for side rails, it'll last longer, will not run and u'll love the result. why go through unnecessary hassle.

as far as me giving an impression that u'r wrong and i'm right, for that my brother i'm sorry and request you to accept my apology, it was not my intention to give any impression that i dont regard others opinion. however kindly understand that i'm no techinical person and highly regard expert advice/opinion and believe that any recommendation should be backed by concerete evidence/results not just knowledge gathered by googling around on internet.

Regards.

Ka_Khan
27-05-2009, 02:57 AM
We got it guys...just cool it ..besides..Oil helps in cooling !

12GAUGE
27-05-2009, 11:09 AM
Oil helps in cooling !

u'r so right about this Ka_Khan.

Regards.

Aamar
27-05-2009, 11:35 AM
I have a hoppes shotgun cleaning kit

My usual cleaning process after a good shoot (over 100 shells fired) is as follows:

Dismantle the shotgun
Wipe down all surfaces with a clean cotton cloth (old t shirts)
Spray the inner unreachable parts liberally with WD 40 (never outer blued parts) and drain excess liquid by holding the gun upside down
Run the pull-through through the barrell a few times (again hoppes)
Then oil all inner components with Hoppes Gun Oil
Remove any tough powder stains using the Hoppes Nitro Solvent
Now, oil a pice of cotton rag and run it all over the gun (barring wooden parts)
Put the gun away

Just wipe down the gun with a clean cotton cloth before taking it for a shoot as the excessive oil on the extreior of the gun will attract dust

I hope this was helpful :)

TalalKhan
27-05-2009, 11:50 AM
After reading all the posts! I am really astonished by the knowledge fellow members have about the chemicals! One should be proud of that! But the point I first took of this thread was to MAKE LIFE EASIER instead of getting into chemical engineering! "NO HARD FEELINGS" But if easier ways are available then why one should get involved into such complex industrial level manufacturing limits of chemicals?
1. Wipe your barrels with clean cotton swabs!
2. Wet further cotton swabs with Hoppes Nitro Solvent No.9 "available for Rs.450 or so" and pull them through barrels use new swab every time untill a swab comes out clean. This process will remove any plastic, carbon residue in the chambers and barrels.
3. Spray some W.D.-40 "available for Rs.110/- or so" in the action and barrel and dry parts with cotton cloth.
4. If storing gun for a longer period lightly oil the metal parts and store it
5. For wooden stocks use birchwoods true-oil
I guess this is far cheaper and easier way to protect the gun :)
Please! No Hard Feelings! I must say again that knowledge of fellow members about chemicals is commendable but it can create problems for novice hunters if they don't take precautions or mess up with quantities to be mixed!
Chill

12GAUGE
27-05-2009, 01:26 PM
ok! now it might sound weird to u guyz but i attach my cleaning rod to a rotary and spin it in the barrel. u will not believe the results. a long time ago I saw this on a video where a guy was doing the same thing. i tried it and became a believer.

http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductImages/PC_Graphics/PHOTOS/BDK/POWER_TOOLS/TOOLS/LARGE/GENERIC/RTX%25_1.jpg

barrels come out looking brand new as if never used. I inspect bore of my shotguns using borescope/light.

Regards.

Aamar
27-05-2009, 01:28 PM
ok! now it might sound weird to u guyz but i attach my cleaning rod to a rotary and spin it in the barrel. u will not believe the results. a long time ago I saw this on a video where a guy was doing the same thing. i tried it and became a believer.

http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductImages/PC_Graphics/PHOTOS/BDK/POWER_TOOLS/TOOLS/LARGE/GENERIC/RTX%25_1.jpg

barrels come out looking brand new as if never used. I inspect bore of my shotguns using borescope/light.

Regards.

@12 Gauge, Dude u r hard core, i bow down :)

12GAUGE
27-05-2009, 01:43 PM
Aamar sahib try it someday, u'll love it. it does the job many times better, faster and with no fatigue on the arms. bores dont just get cleaned, they get polished into a mirror finish (i'm not talking by inspecting through conventional means, i'm talking by inspecting using a bore scope).

and the rotary tool isnt that expensive, this particular model fetches around 8K. you can go for a chinese rotary tool as well, costs less than 3K with hell lot of accessories and will be durable enough for this kinda use.

Regards.

Aamar
27-05-2009, 02:02 PM
I have the drill machine, will try it and revert with feedback :)

TalalKhan
27-05-2009, 02:20 PM
@Aamar! For God sake bro :D ..... What would be left to give feed back on after using DRILL MACHINE? What is wrong with conventional text book method??? Had this rotary motor been so famous...Hoopes and other would have invented some tool with rotary brushing and so! Now a days guns are manufactured with chromium plated barrels I don't think if they need such a harsh treatment unless one uses some very very cheap quality cartridges! anyways.. any fellow intending to use electronic rotating tool for cleaning gun BEST OF LUCK :D :D :D

Bluff
27-05-2009, 02:27 PM
@Aamar! For God sake bro ..... What would be left to give feed back on after using DRILL MACHINE........... Only Drill Machine

12GAUGE
27-05-2009, 04:14 PM
@Aamar! For God sake bro ..... What would be left to give feed back on after using DRILL MACHINE? What is wrong with conventional text book method??? Had this rotary motor been so famous...Hoopes and other would have invented some tool with rotary brushing and so! Now a days guns are manufactured with chromium plated barrels I don't think if they need such a harsh treatment unless one uses some very very cheap quality cartridges! anyways.. any fellow intending to use electronic rotating tool for cleaning gun BEST OF LUCK

well, new age barrels are hard chromed which is way harder than steel/stainless steel. check for the hardness charts, u'll see. having said that, there is absolutely no harm that u can cause to a barrel by polishing it with a drill. infact I have videos demonstrating that forcing cones are intentionally polished this way for a mirror shine as it promotes better patterns and similarly barrels are polished using the same drill/rotary method for better barrel maintainance and improved patterns.

my first tool for polishing was infact a drill, but later i bought this rotary tool as it is smaller than a drill hence promotes easy handling. otherwise, sure, go right ahead with the drill, make sure that the cleaning rod u attach with the drill does not make contact with the bore surface. a tight and snugly fit cotton swab at the end of the cleaning rod will ensure that. u'll find that the barrel will heat up. trick is to spin, rest, spin rest. barrel heating is perfectly normal.

Regards.

Shariq
27-05-2009, 10:25 PM
Good idea 12gauge sir. Will give it a try.

Turumti
03-06-2009, 06:02 AM
@12Gauge

What speed do you run this rotary tool at?

12GAUGE
03-06-2009, 12:55 PM
@12Gauge

What speed do you run this rotary tool at?


Sir, i use low speed with interminent on and off. i sometimes use medium speed too. its not that high is unsafe, its actually that high speeds creates a mess, you dont want the cleaner solution splattered all over your hands/arms/shoulders.

plus i've also discovered a strange relationship between speed of the rotary tool and mood of one's wife.

higher the speed, more pissed-off one's lady gets :D

I usually get off the hook by blaming it all on my kid for the mess ;)

Regards.

Starfish
03-06-2009, 01:33 PM
Spray the inner unreachable parts liberally with WD 40 (never outer blued parts) and drain excess liquid by holding the gun upside down


What does wd 40 do to blued parts ?? :O

12GAUGE
03-06-2009, 01:59 PM
What does wd 40 do to blued parts ??

absolutely nothing.

Regards.

Starfish
03-06-2009, 02:20 PM
What does wd 40 do to blued parts ??

absolutely nothing.

Regards.

thank god. for a moment there, i was scared #$%less.

Turumti
05-06-2009, 04:56 AM
@12Gauge

What speed do you run this rotary tool at?


Sir, i use low speed with interminent on and off. i sometimes use medium speed too. its not that high is unsafe, its actually that high speeds creates a mess, you dont want the cleaner solution splattered all over your hands/arms/shoulders.

plus i've also discovered a strange relationship between speed of the rotary tool and mood of one's wife.

higher the speed, more pissed-off one's lady gets :D

I usually get off the hook by blaming it all on my kid for the mess ;)

Regards.


I have pre-empted that problem by keeping my life uncomplicated. No wife, no strife. Life is too short to be wasted on shooting coots and dancing with fat girls!! :P

Syed
26-06-2009, 11:38 PM
@12gauge is there any particular way of rust removing from a

gun?

12GAUGE
26-06-2009, 11:56 PM
@12gauge is there any particular way of rust removing from a

gun?


that depends, which part are we talking about?

Regards.

Syed
27-06-2009, 06:41 PM
@12gauge is there any particular way of rust removing from a

gun?


that depends, which part are we talking about?

Regards.

its the barrel from outside and it has a dotted rust(brown).

12GAUGE
27-06-2009, 07:09 PM
well, if its dotted, i would recommend leave it on, if it bothers u that much then here is the solution:

method 1. use brasso polish and cotton cloth and rub it away, it will take hell lot of effort

method 2. use steel wool dabbed in vinegar and rub it away, alot easier, leaving the vinegar on the rusted part realy speeds things up, leave it on for like 30 minutes before rubbing.

method 3. use a scrub (used to clean dirty crockery), dip it in vinegar and rub the rust away. leave the vinegar on the rusted surface for 30mins or longer helps alot.

mothod 4. my personal favorite, mix equal parts of lemon juice and borax. apply on rusted surface and gently rub, leave it on for 30 mins or so, it'll help alot.

TIP: some of the ironies of the removing rust from any surface is that it will be left without any protection from the elements, there will be no bluing left on the rusted surface, u'll have to get it reblued.

Regards.

Syed
27-06-2009, 11:01 PM
@12gauge thank u brother hope it will help

Shariq
30-06-2009, 04:55 PM
12gauge Bro
Tried your formula of cleaner and Lubricant. It is amazing and effective. You have saved me a lot of dough on Gun care products. Thank you very much.
One question. Do i need any solvents or the cleaner will do that job too.

12GAUGE
30-06-2009, 10:31 PM
sir the cleaner is basicaly a solvent or for the lack of a better word, a mixture of four solvents.

it has two polar solvents and two non-polar solvents. u do not need a seperate solvent of any sort after using the cleaner.

Regards.

Syed
30-06-2009, 10:39 PM
12gauge Bro
Tried your formula of cleaner and Lubricant. It is amazing and effective. You have saved me a lot of dough on Gun care products. Thank you very much.
One question. Do i need any solvents or the cleaner will do that job too.
which formula? is that method no 1 ,2 , 3 or 4 ?

12GAUGE
30-06-2009, 10:42 PM
1. Automatic transmission oil dexron II or dexron III
2. Kerosene Oil
3. Spirit from hardware store
4. Paint Thinner from Hardware store
mix all of the above in equal parts.

Regards

Syed
30-06-2009, 10:44 PM
@12gauge sir if the rust is on the barrel and in irregular shape then what to do ?

Denovo87
04-07-2009, 12:59 PM
1. Automatic transmission oil dexron II or dexron III
2. Kerosene Oil
3. Spirit from hardware store
4. Paint Thinner from Hardware store
mix all of the above in equal parts.

Regards

Just completed making this formula, going to give it try to remove black rings from my .357 mag revolver.. will post the results soon with pics (before & after)..

Denovo87
04-07-2009, 03:43 PM
Here are the pics cylinder front looked like before cleaning it with red formula,


http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7120/44964408.th.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV8QfsJ)

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4022/39982675.th.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV8QmX9)

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/9297/69350753.th.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV8QrWr)

Denovo87
04-07-2009, 03:45 PM
Tools used,


http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/6827/13260360.th.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV8Q_Rr)

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3553/26047586.th.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV8R7kS)

Denovo87
04-07-2009, 03:54 PM
And the result after 10 minutes of work,


http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9653/59627575.th.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV8RIL0)

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/261/63831123.th.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV8RNKi)

So friends you can see the result, I also tried Hoppes 9 bore solvent but the home made formula by 12gauge is excellent & highy recomended if you want to use a bore cleaner to remove carbon, lead, copper etc without worrying about the cost of solvent.
One more thing the scotch brite looking in my pic is good thing to use but always use the one your wife wants to through away as new one will make lot of mess.
Not sure about the matte or black finishes but it worked on SS very well & no harm to finish.
God bless you 12gauge & I pray for promosion in your gauge...

Adeel Ahmad
04-07-2009, 04:58 PM
Thinking about giving this a try. 12Gauge your knowldge is really appreciated.

12GAUGE
04-07-2009, 06:52 PM
@Denovo87

nice brother, very nice. and thank you very much for the kind compliments

Regards.

p.s. i really liked this part:


I pray for promosion in your gauge...

hahahahahahha :lol: dude, awesome. next stop, 10gauge.

Syed
07-07-2009, 07:13 PM
AoA Everybody.


1. transmission oil, dexron II or dexron III
2. kerosene oil
3. mineral spirits
4. acetone

.
bro plz dont mind it im still confuse in making rohafza . plz tell me wt is the diffrnc between mineral spirit and methylated spirit and
should i use pure acetone or thinner

12GAUGE
07-07-2009, 09:37 PM
bro plz dont mind it im still confuse in making rohafza . plz tell me wt is the diffrnc between mineral spirit and methylated spirit and
should i use pure acetone or thinner

Q 1: difference between mineral spirit and methylated spirit?

mineral spirit = methylated spirit = denatured alcohol (all are same things)

Q 2: stay away from acetone, i know acetone is an industrial grade/strength solvent but its like killing something with a 1000 pound hammer that can be easily killed with a 10 pound hammer. besides, 1000 pound hammer will unnecessarily fatigue ur arms. similarly, acetone is very flammable, dangerous and difficult to store in any plastic bottle (acetone eats away most plastics easy). A paint thinner comparatively (available at any "paints and hardware store") is a very mild solvent but very good nevertheless for our purpose.

one more thing: i've used industrial strength acetone and methylethylketone. i didnt see any considerable increase in potency to clean my shotguns. however did noticed that acetone and MEK vapors eats away the plastic caps of the storage bottles. imagine what it can do to ur fiber/polymer shotgun furniture.

Regards.


summary: substitute acetone/MEK with ordinary paint thinner. absolutely safe and more than enough potency for our required purpose.

Syed
08-07-2009, 11:57 AM
again thnx for discription

SanSyed
08-07-2009, 11:03 PM
gud work

12GAUGE
09-07-2009, 12:09 AM
gud work

Thank u sir.

Regards.

Shariq
09-07-2009, 12:54 AM
12guage
I am getting orders for your formula. U wont get any royalties :)

12GAUGE
09-07-2009, 01:07 AM
12guage
I am getting orders for your formula. U wont get any royalties :)


no problem sir jee. i'm glad that you are satisfied with the results. use the formula in any way you see fit and spread the word. lets call it pakguns cleaner and lubricant (improved version of lubricant).

Regards.

Ka_Khan
09-07-2009, 10:49 PM
lets call it pakguns cleaner and lubricant (improved version of lubricant).
Regards.
+1

Conceal Carry
09-07-2009, 11:54 PM
12guage
I am getting orders for your formula. U wont get any royalties :)

Sell all you can but don't get it patented in your name.;)

Syed
10-07-2009, 02:36 PM
12guage
I am getting orders for your formula. U wont get any royalties :)

Sell all you can but don't get it patented in your name.;)
lol

Cap1
23-07-2009, 09:24 PM
My MP-153's manual says "WARNING! DURING INITIAL PERIOD OF USING THE SHOTGUN, LUBRICATE IT EACH TIME YOU ARE GOING TO FIRE"
Two questions:
How many shots comprise the initial period?
Most people have told me to lubricate the gun after use but wipe off the oil before shooting to avoid overly messing up the parts. Is this not to be done during initial period?

12GAUGE
23-07-2009, 11:12 PM
My MP-153's manual says "WARNING! DURING INITIAL PERIOD OF USING THE SHOTGUN, LUBRICATE IT EACH TIME YOU ARE GOING TO FIRE"
Two questions:
How many shots comprise the initial period?
Most people have told me to lubricate the gun after use but wipe off the oil before shooting to avoid overly messing up the parts. Is this not to be done during initial period?


when the manual says "lubricate each time...." it means lubricate each time before any firing session, it doesn't mean to lubricate before each shot. the purspose of the above statement is to ensure that the operator purposedly over lubricates the gun as during the break-in period all moving parts are sorta grinding with each other before setting down to their desired position.

from over lubrication I recon: lubricate to the point where u can see a very thin film of oil on all critical/moving parts (they should look shiny), it doesnt mean that the film be thick enough for u to see ur own reflection or the oil should drip all the way down to ur boots.

about the break-in period, it is recommended to fire 100-150 regular 32g hunting loads then check with light target loads and if it cycles, perfect, if it doesnt do an extra 50 rounds before adjusting the gas system. in the meanwhile dont even touch the gas valve/regulator/gas nut.

Contemporary thought:

just load two snap caps or fired/spent cartridges in the magazine tube and then simply pull the cocking handle to chamber the cartridge then dry fire then cycle the cocking handle/bolt manually as this will eject the snap cap/cartridge and will load the other one into the chamber then dry fire again and maually cycle the cocking handle/bolt. do this proceedure 100 times and you are finished with the break-in proceedure.

then go to the range, try the lighter loads, if they cycle, perfect!, if they dont, try the above mentioned proceedure again.

theoratically, i dont see a reason why this proceedure shouldnt work. as far as plain theory or mechanics is concerned, break-in is just supposed to cycle to the gun multiple time in order to settle all working parts at their desired position and grind/rub the action smooth to permit easy cycling.

Regards

Shariq
24-07-2009, 07:54 PM
Really enjoyed reading your post. Really informative. Too bad you are not into rifles and handguns that much.

Cap1
24-07-2009, 10:12 PM
Thanks 12gauge. Snap Caps are a great idea.

Ka_Khan
04-10-2009, 11:30 PM
Have changed the Topic name from 'How to clean shotguns' to 'PakGuns Gun's cleaner'.
12 guage with your new 'PakGuns copper solvent' this will match
:)

12GAUGE
05-10-2009, 02:42 AM
Have changed the Topic name from 'How to clean shotguns' to 'PakGuns Gun's cleaner'.
12 guage with your new 'PakGuns copper solvent' this will match
:)


Good idea Khan Bhai.

Regards.

Topak
05-10-2009, 12:17 PM
pak guns cleaner is very useful..i have made it and used on my pistols.it works great and after its duty,it disappears...WOW.
thanks 12G.

Sohail Waheed
12-10-2009, 10:21 AM
Zubair bhai has given me this Rooh Afza and i used it on Saturday after a range session. It really works great. Thanks Zubair bhai and 12 gauge.

Zahid Hussain
29-10-2009, 10:48 PM
Is WD-40 bad for gun blue

12GAUGE
29-10-2009, 11:56 PM
Is WD-40 bad for gun blue?

No! WD-40 does not harm gun bluing.

Regards.

Starfish
30-10-2009, 10:10 AM
dear 12gauge,
The other day i mixed some "pakguns cleaner" and the wonder lube. Both of them worked wonderfully. Plus they save a lot of cash :p
Please accept my gratitude :)

12GAUGE
30-10-2009, 11:47 AM
dear 12gauge,
The other day i mixed some "pakguns cleaner" and the wonder lube. Both of them worked wonderfully. Plus they save a lot of cash :p
Please accept my gratitude :)


You are most welcome buddy.

Regards.

RazaRajpoot
06-11-2009, 07:35 PM
AOA plz any one tell me where i buy cleaning kit for 9mm in Lahore or best price

RazaRajpoot
06-11-2009, 07:44 PM
AOA 12 gauge i read ur formula plz tell me one think about transmission oil, dexron II or dexron III is this same oil or explain some easy about transmission oil, dexron II or dexron III dexron II or dexron III different oil plz tell me

12GAUGE
06-11-2009, 08:05 PM
AOA 12 gauge i read ur formula plz tell me one think about transmission oil, dexron II or dexron III is this same oil or explain some easy about transmission oil, dexron II or dexron III dexron II or dexron III different oil plz tell me


yes! they are all the same, I've used different names cause some people are familiar with some names and might be unfamiliar with other names. otherwise they are all the same thing. just go to any automotive store and as for automatic transmission oil from ZIC Company. odds are that u'll get a one litre red plastic bottle with "ZIC automatic Transmission oil Dexron 3" written on it. which is the right one by the way.

Regards.

MHMalik
07-11-2009, 02:04 AM
@ 12GAUGE

How do you attach the cleaning rod to the rotary tool?

I have one of those lying here.. and just went through this post.. is there any attachment you need to make or just stick the cleaning rod in and lock it?

12GAUGE
07-11-2009, 10:03 AM
yup! just stick the cleaning rod in the "chuck" of the rotary tool or drill and lock it tight.

Regards.

Skeeter60
07-11-2009, 11:16 AM
12 Gauge Sb
Excellent work on gun oil.
What are your comments on adding a bit of sperm whale oil or Lanolin to reduce the flow of preservative oil when weapons are kept vertically standing for long periods

12GAUGE
07-11-2009, 02:00 PM
Sir, sperm whale oil was used in automatic transmissions of cars before the WW2 but now its been totally replaced by Automatic transmission fluid. to compound the problems, the sperm whale oil would be very hard to find in Pakistan, assuming its available. and even if we do endup finding it, It would not give any performance advantage over regular DEXRON II or III ATF. ATF is not just oil, its got alota compounds such as anti oxidents, surfacants, detergents which are very helpful in our use.

as far as lenolin is concerned, its also very hard to find. however since u'r in Lahore, I can direct to a hydro carbon supplier which sent me a sample quiet a while back. its like blubber/fat. first we need to melt it before adding it to the lubricant for increased staying ability. however down side is that lenolin leaves a waxy film which would not oxidize ashless. hence its good if u want to make an oil which serves only as a preservative not as an active lubricant.

now if u want the oil to have more staying ability, the best and tried and tested way is to add STP oil additive. it'll make the lubricant thick (more viscosity) so that it wont run off. but then again, all testing showed that it doesnt provide any increased lubrication(infact greatly reduces viscosity index) and infact the results were lower than that of my regular concotion. neccessatating its absence.

the figures I got from testing various combinations clearly showed that "ITS BETTER TO HAVE BETTER LUBRICATION (OPTIMUM VISCOSITY, HIGHER VISCOSITY INDEX, HIGHER FLASH POINT), HIGHER PENETRATION AND HIGHER COOKING OFF (OXIDIZING) TEMPERATURES THAN HIGHER VISCOSITY (THICKER OIL) THAN NEEDED TO INDUCE BETTER STAYING ABILITY.

one thing i've learned through all this is that the trick is not to make an oil thicker to get better results but to make it as thin as possible to while maintaining the performance benchmarks. u see, thicker oils slow down mechanical movements. and in actuality, increase friction, heat and wear. now u know why new age high performace lubricants are practically water thin. the objective is to make it as thin as possible while obtaining/maintaining the best results.

Regards.

MHMalik
07-11-2009, 03:05 PM
I tried inserting the cleaning rod into the rotary, but rod diameter is the same as the tool collet. :(

Ideas?

12GAUGE
07-11-2009, 04:40 PM
I tried inserting the cleaning rod into the rotary, but rod diameter is the same as the tool collet. :(

Ideas?


ok so u have a collet type chuck. well.... then I guess u'll have to arrange a lower dia cleaning rod. there is one other thing u can do if you have a hand held drill machine with a regular jaw type chuck (also called jacob's chuck). u can easily insert the cleaning rod into it. as jacob's chucks can open to wide huge diameters. a drill machine is also perfect for the job. so dont worry about using a drill machine instead of a rotary tool.

Regards.

Skeeter60
07-11-2009, 06:46 PM
Thank you. I was thinking the lanolin might help when used in the mix for rust prevention and our use is in bolt rifles and double shotguns

MHMalik
07-11-2009, 06:47 PM
yeah.. guess thats what I'll do..

12GAUGE
07-11-2009, 09:52 PM
Thank you. I was thinking the lanolin might help when used in the mix for rust prevention and our use is in bolt rifles and double shotguns

you are most welcome sir. actually thats exactly what i've said that lenolin leaves a waxy film hence only good as a preservative. and as far as bolt rifles and double shotguns are concerned, I belive that one can use them provided that for outside usage only. internals such as boxlock are a big no no. u dont want everything to gumup inside. thing is, the moment solvent from the mix evaporates and lenolin solidifies, it leave a waxy film which inhits movement of smaller parts such as springs and stuff. for the outside, its fine and may provide added protection since its waxy and it wont run off that easily.

as far as my regular concotion's rust prevention ability is concerned, i've had shotguns placed in vertical position since the february this year the oil has run off but it leaves a very thin film behind which is full of anti-oxidents and metal deactivators, i believe it is good enough for the job. and guess what? the oil that still remains (in the action, small crevaces), hasn't gummed up, not even a little bit.

Regards.

i've been working on some more improvements to the mix lately and have concluded that best solution for the job is to add "vapor phase corrosion inhibitor" technology to the mix. it leaves a mono-ionic layer of VPCI that blocks moisture and oxygen to reach the metal surface.

this is new age stuff, although available since WW2, is a very promising techology. and results are far better than even the best type of surface application corrosion treatment (grease and cosmoline).

I know that there are speciality oils already developed by firearms companies that utilize this technology but u know me, i've gotta try it out for myself. i've contacted a few VPCI companies and only managed to get a sample (VPCI concentrate) big enough to make two 100ml bottles for me and Dr. Zakir.

I would love to send u some if u wish to try. would also appreciate ur opinion on that.

Regards.

JUGAN99
08-12-2009, 12:08 PM
12gauge

I used this oil, its work good
thnaks

SPAYPANTHER
10-12-2009, 06:48 PM
to day i was tring to make that cleaner! but i found that one of its ingreadent is not mixing with other so it cant becoum a homogenius solution!!!!!!!!!!!

all of my money and time go in west because of this formula

Starfish
11-12-2009, 11:05 AM
to day i was tring to make that cleaner! but i found that one of its ingreadent is not mixing with other so it cant becoum a homogenius solution!!!!!!!!!!!

all of my money and time go in west because of this formula
there s a simple solution to your problem sir, :)
"shake well before use"

Glocky
11-12-2009, 11:07 AM
there s a simple solution to your problem sir, :)
"shake well before use"

LoLs, thats the best reply i have seen in a long time

Hamid
11-12-2009, 05:51 PM
I have written this direction on the lubricant container. I was also little worried about this heterogeneous mixture.

SPAYPANTHER
11-12-2009, 05:57 PM
to day i was tring to make that cleaner! but i found that one of its ingreadent is not mixing with other so it cant becoum a homogenius solution!!!!!!!!!!!

all of my money and time go in west because of this formula
there s a simple solution to your problem sir, :)
"shake well before use"


thenks broooooooooooooooooo

SPAYPANTHER
11-12-2009, 05:59 PM
ONE REQUEST TO ALL WHO IS USING PAKGUN CLEANER

yar if aney of one see cheng on shade of your gun or athore problems while using that formula plz mantion it

a55kika
11-12-2009, 06:29 PM
What do you guys think about Brunox?(cleaner/lubricant)

eagleandlark
25-12-2009, 09:22 PM
@12 gauge,
im a new member and just bought a couger 800f, yesterday. i dont know whether its ready to fire? moreover please guide me about buying some simple cleaning oil? method and frequency of use? how to clean magazines? wat about polymer grips and how to maintain them? please help

eagleandlark
25-12-2009, 09:24 PM
i mean stoeger couger 8000f

zainulabdeen
19-07-2011, 09:17 PM
i dig out this old but ever new thread as the quest for a good CLP never ends for a gun lover, our " one & only " brother 12 gauge has formulated this " wonder lube" & " pak gun lubricant" that have been mentioned for many times but remain " elusive" from most of the new commers like me.... i can just say " its just amazing " ... we are lucky to have u here brother 12 gauge..... ALLAH KARE ZOR-E-QALAM AOR ZEYADA .... but should i say that ALLAH KARE FORCE-E- PANCH-E- KEY BOARD AUR ZEYADA:smile:..... one question bro 12 gauge ,,,, as this post is years old , have u made any change in the ingridients or quantity thereof ? .. and why didnt u use it in ur recent tutorial of auto loader shot gun... as far as i remember , u preferred to use diesel only