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CANIK55
21-11-2011, 12:46 PM
Is any russian made TT available in pakistan .If i get one what should be its marking or what should i see on it??

Ameer
21-11-2011, 05:25 PM
never seen one

Syed
21-11-2011, 08:43 PM
Is any russian made TT available in pakistan .If i get one what should be its marking or what should i see on it??
Brother r u asking abt new 1 or used? old are available here . let me check the markings then i will tell u

CANIK55
21-11-2011, 09:28 PM
@syed: any 1 but plz check the markings..thanx

Syed
21-11-2011, 09:35 PM
brother i chked it there r no markings except C C C P
on center of grip above and below the star. and 1 more thing there is date of manufacturing i.e 1938 stamped on frame ( the 1 i have )

Nazim Sahib
22-11-2011, 01:08 PM
I saw a used one in Dera.It was on Sale for 4000rs.But you should keep in mind in those days a brand new chiniese .30 was for 9000rs.
This was quite a while back.
The good old days :)

CANIK55
22-11-2011, 03:18 PM
@Syed,,Nazim Sahib: thank u very very much

Topak
22-11-2011, 04:13 PM
difficult to find a Made in USSR TT now a days. if could have found a good piece, price range will be as equal to a makarove.

Legion-Lad
05-07-2013, 11:49 AM
Is any russian made TT available in pakistan .If i get one what should be its marking or what should i see on it??
I have seen one about 2 months ago with a dealer...it was Russian..I didn't noticed the marking...but I did noticed barrel & Slide length, which was shorter than normal TT-33..
Asking prce was 30k..bt it was negotiable to around 26 to 27 K..It was in was in good condition 65/75..

Safdar Mahmood Khan
19-07-2013, 02:12 AM
they are available in kpk for 30K.the cccp markings on the grips are only on the orignal russian TTs.

Usama
19-07-2013, 02:18 AM
have seen with a dealer and was a used piece but he was asking 50k:smokin:

n4nomz
10-10-2013, 11:57 AM
Market is flooded with NEW n Origenal TT-33 Russian era n they r dirt cheap now I bought 1 in 25K. u can buy 1 from any reliable Arms Dealer in Peshawer

yellowsled
11-10-2013, 03:26 PM
I am going to have to pull mine out of the safe and take a few pictures for you guys...

Enigmatic Desires
11-10-2013, 03:47 PM
I am going to have to pull mine out of the safe and take a few pictures for you guys...

Yessss.. that would be greatly appreciated friend.

After reading your thread.. I have applied for a fresh license that i intend to dedicate to teh Badar Arms safety equipped TT. SHe will be chromed in SS finish and sport customised wood grips :D

Ameer
15-10-2013, 10:06 PM
Market is flooded with NEW n Origenal TT-33 Russian era n they r dirt cheap now I bought 1 in 25K. u can buy 1 from any reliable Arms Dealer in Peshawer
25K, which dealer brother. Is it the early or later models.

Dr Zakir
15-10-2013, 11:57 PM
Which dealer please

AK 74
16-10-2013, 03:16 PM
Which dealer please



almost every dealer has russian TTs stock in peshawar.peshawar arms,sirbuland khan arms pak arms alfalah arms.all these are in hashtnagri market

Crony
05-07-2014, 11:41 PM
I purchased this Russian TT last year from Abbottabad. Please see pictures and comments whether it is original Russian TT.
Its number is mentioned like this. AB 3002 (little star and then) 1943. some other marks can be seen 38 some stars.....

High_Roller
07-07-2014, 01:19 AM
wat did u pay for it brother

Crony
07-07-2014, 04:41 PM
34k dear............

Aquarius
07-07-2014, 09:40 PM
34k dear............
Thats quite a hefty amount for Russian TT.

High_Roller
08-07-2014, 01:28 AM
Thats quite a hefty amount for Russian TT.

ur absolutely rite, 34k is a rip off, u can get an M57TT for 36k which iis far better

Aquarius
08-07-2014, 01:34 AM
ur absolutely rite, 34k is a rip off, u can get an M57TT for 36k which iis far better
Do you really think that Zastava M57 TT is a better choice than Russian & Chinese TTs ??

High_Roller
08-07-2014, 02:21 AM
Do you really think that Zastava M57 TT is a better choice than Russian & Chinese TTs ??

I do, m57 r better then both chinese n russian (Ukraine import) tts,

FA226
08-07-2014, 02:26 AM
@Crony
congratulations bro.looks original to me,which dealer you bought it from.

Aquarius
08-07-2014, 02:27 AM
I do, m57 r better then both chinese n russian (Ukraine import) tts,
Thanks for the nice share bro.

Leon
08-07-2014, 02:35 AM
@ aquarius,

Sir, I have also found Zastava M57 better than normal TT. It is better in built quality and longer grip gives better control. It is must buy item.

hmd
08-07-2014, 05:02 AM
In .30 I am also a fan of Zastava M57 .

ajmal virk
08-07-2014, 11:13 AM
My vote is also for Zastava finish is awesome and it works really cool as i bought one only ten days back here are photos check finish
http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y497/Yasha02/Zastava03_zps76311e93.jpg
http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y497/Yasha02/Zastava02_zpsa43a458c.jpg
http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y497/Yasha02/Zastava01_zps46747dc3.jpg

Afzaal
08-07-2014, 01:35 PM
great buy
how much u paid bro for zastava ?

ajmal virk
08-07-2014, 02:12 PM
Afzaal btother i paid 35k.

musk
08-07-2014, 03:28 PM
Afzaal btother i paid 35k.

Ajmal Brother please post some closeup pictures in day light. As i want to see the markings of zastava.

Finish and marking on this zastava is not visible/read able in posted pictures.

As i am also planning to buy Zastava.

ajmal virk
08-07-2014, 05:16 PM
In Eid Holydays i will visit Sarghodha as i am married in Sarghodha you can touch me there you can see it closly and even can fire.

Crony
08-07-2014, 06:41 PM
@Crony
congratulations bro.looks original to me,which dealer you bought it from.

Thanks.. I bought this from United Traders (Essajee). It is reconditioned TT.

Crony
08-07-2014, 06:45 PM
[QUOTE=High_Roller;449199]ur absolutely rite, 34k is a rip off, u can get an M57TT for 36k which iis far better[/QUOTE

To some extent you are right.. but I have listened from may pakguns members that Russian TT are very goods if any one find original piece.

I checked and fired around 50 rounds it found it very good.

jojee
08-07-2014, 08:09 PM
ajmal bro congrates and really good looking tt i am planing to buy .30 bore now the px3 fever is going on what would u say about zastava is good compare to px3 and whats the capacity of magzine in zastava same as china or russian tt or anymore then that i hope u will reply thank u :)

FA226
08-07-2014, 08:23 PM
My vote is also for Zastava finish is awesome and it works really cool as i bought one only ten days back here are photos check finish
http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y497/Yasha02/Zastava03_zps76311e93.jpg
http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y497/Yasha02/Zastava02_zpsa43a458c.jpg
http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y497/Yasha02/Zastava01_zps46747dc3.jpg
Beautiful weapon bro.

FA226
08-07-2014, 10:01 PM
Thanks.. I bought this from United Traders (Essajee). It is reconditioned TT.

thanks bro,yes a refurbish lot of Russian TTs entered the market a year back.as long as price is concern in Abbottabad it a bit high because they charge for carrier from Peshawar as well.Eassajee are expensive but reliable.

Aquarius
08-07-2014, 11:05 PM
@ aquarius,

Sir, I have also found Zastava M57 better than normal TT. It is better in built quality and longer grip gives better control. It is must buy item.


In .30 I am also a fan of Zastava M57 .

Thanks for the nice information brothers.

Aquarius
08-07-2014, 11:07 PM
My vote is also for Zastava finish is awesome and it works really cool as i bought one only ten days back here are photos check finish
Thats a beautiful TT you got bro.. happy shooting.

High_Roller
09-07-2014, 02:30 AM
ajmal bro congrates and really good looking tt i am planing to buy .30 bore now the px3 fever is going on what would u say about zastava is good compare to px3 and whats the capacity of magzine in zastava same as china or russian tt or anymore then that i hope u will reply thank u :)

no comparing px3 & zastava, both r xcelent handguns, px3 can hold 17 rounds but zastava makes a louder bang :) but px3's got better accuracy,

High_Roller
09-07-2014, 02:32 AM
Thanks for the nice information brothers.

rora pekhor k da kam zey? if u dnt mind

FA226
09-07-2014, 02:37 AM
no comparing px3 & zastava, both r xcelent handguns, px3 can hold 17 rounds but zastava makes a louder bang :) but px3's got better accuracy,
we will be able to compare px3 with zastava ppz which has 20rd mag if it arrives.

High_Roller
09-07-2014, 02:40 AM
we will be able to compare px3 with zastava ppz which has 20rd mag if it arrives.

yea rite :)

Aquarius
09-07-2014, 03:38 PM
rora pekhor k da kam zey? if u dnt mind

Why should I mind Bro.. I am from Mohmand Agency and you ??

Aquarius
09-07-2014, 03:40 PM
no comparing px3 & zastava, both r xcelent handguns, px3 can hold 17 rounds but zastava makes a louder bang :) but px3's got better accuracy,

Bro did you tried the Zastava PPZ ??

musk
09-07-2014, 05:01 PM
In Eid Holydays i will visit Sarghodha as i am married in Sarghodha you can touch me there you can see it closly and even can fire.

You are wellcome brother. I will be waiting for you.

s.jawad
09-07-2014, 05:25 PM
@ aquarius,

Sir, I have also found Zastava M57 better than normal TT. It is better in built quality and longer grip gives better control. It is must buy item.

@ Leon
Sir I don't agree as Chinese tt are much better than zastava.
Regards

Aquarius
09-07-2014, 06:32 PM
@ Leon
Sir I don't agree as Chinese tt are much better than zastava.
Regards
So you think Chinese TT is better than Zastava M57 ?? I have also heard the same & specially about the older Chinese models that they are the best.

HeartTTAK
09-07-2014, 06:43 PM
TT RANKING
1ST if u have hands on orignal one: RUSSIAN
2ND CHINEESE
3RD YOGO ZASTAVA
after that all the shit in market.........

sajjadjutt
09-07-2014, 06:51 PM
@ Leon
Sir I don't agree as Chinese tt are much better than zastava.
Regards
I totally agreed with s.jawad bro chinese tt is far far better than zastava.

Crony
09-07-2014, 08:00 PM
TT RANKING
1ST if u have hands on orignal one: RUSSIAN
2ND CHINEESE
3RD YOGO ZASTAVA
after that all the shit in market.........

HeartTTAK, What do you say about mine one in above post..

HeartTTAK
09-07-2014, 08:19 PM
Crony bro....... Nice piece Russian. is there any stamping on barrel and also share pics of its Top and right side. same stampings will be on magzines and on right side. mine is 1943 and yours

HeartTTAK
09-07-2014, 08:39 PM
Mine Russian TT im uploading brothers check it.......

Aquarius
09-07-2014, 09:05 PM
Now I am really confuse becoz on one hand High_Rooler, Leon & hmd brothers are in favour of Zastava M57, while on the other hand s.jawad, HeartTTAK, sajjadjutt & Crony brothers are in favour of Chinese TT.

PS: I don't know much about TTs.. I have one older 636 Chinese model, which I bought in 1995.. it has 11 logo in a circle on top of the slide & serial # starting from 310.. I shot it many times & am quite satisfied with its performance.. not a single issue even with JHP.

Dr Zakir
09-07-2014, 09:15 PM
I have one chinese tt which I had bought in 1989 . I took it out after 14 years it was lying without any regular oiling and cleaning. I fired 4 magzine without any problem . When diasmbled for cleaning there was no rust . Was fairly accurate at 25 m all the bullets were in 6 to 8 circle .

Crony
09-07-2014, 09:19 PM
Crony bro....... Nice piece Russian. is there any stamping on barrel and also share pics of its Top and right side. same stampings will be on magzines and on right side. mine is 1943 and yours

number is mentioned on barrel also... I will share some more pics soon. yes year is 1943. First number then after star year.

Crony
09-07-2014, 09:19 PM
Mine Russian TT im uploading brothers check it.......

Upload please...

Leon
09-07-2014, 09:20 PM
@ Aquarius,

Sir, why are you confused. You have got best TT. These models are not available now.

I rate Zastava over current Chinese TTs.

But, the longer grip of Zastava is an edge over any other TT, be it Russian or Chinese.

FA226
09-07-2014, 09:21 PM
Now I am really confuse becoz on one hand High_Rooler, Leon & hmd brothers are in favour of Zastava M57, while on the other hand s.jawad, HeartTTAK, sajjadjutt & Crony brothers are in favour of Chinese TT.

PS: I don't know much about TTs.. I have one older 636 Chinese model, which I bought in 1995.. it has 11 logo in a circle on top of the slide & serial # starting from 310.. I shot it many times & am quite satisfied with its performance.. not a single issue even with JHP.
Brother i don't know that which one is the best but one thing i know from experience is that chinese TTs are good.i had one which i bought in 1999 and sold this year because i need a vacant license,it never gave me any problem in 15 years.

hmd
09-07-2014, 09:32 PM
I will say all three pistol Russian , Chinese and Zastava they are all are good it's your personal choice which one you want . I personally like Zastava and then Chinese .

Aquarius
09-07-2014, 09:40 PM
I have one chinese tt which I had bought in 1989 . I took it out after 14 years it was lying without any regular oiling and cleaning. I fired 4 magzine without any problem . When diasmbled for cleaning there was no rust . Was fairly accurate at 25 m all the bullets were in 6 to 8 circle .


@ Aquarius,

Sir, why are you confused. You have got best TT. These models are not available now.

I rate Zastava over current Chinese TTs.

Thanks a lot brothers for the nice share.
So this means I am the owner of a good TT, no matter whether its Chinese, Russian or Zastava.

Leon
09-07-2014, 09:44 PM
Which one is good? Isn't it a difficult answer?

Are we rating them on some technical grounds? Or Metallurgy? Or some other aspect?

I rate Zastava M57 over others due to longer grip which gives me more control. In case of other TTs, the grip is short. I was never accurate with any TT till I shot with Zastava.

As far as reliability is concerned, I have never faced any problem with any foreign made TT. All shot very fine.

Around 15 years ago, we had a Chinese TT which was gifted to us with half sack (that 50 Kgs fertilizer polypropylene bag) of mixed ammo (russian surplus sort of rusted, Chinese and Dara refilled). That TT shot every kind of ammo without any hick up. We experienced few dud rounds of Dara refilled ammo but that was ammo problem.

This Zastava has shot more than 800 rounds without any hick up. It shot first 750 rounds without de-greasing or cleaning.

I cannot differentiate between metallurgy with naked eye. But Zastava's metal is kind of different. It is lighter than Chinese although it has longer grip. The internals are very much the same. But Zastava are kind of more refined but not much difference.

FA226
09-07-2014, 09:55 PM
Which one is good? Isn't it a difficult answer?

Are we rating them on some technical grounds? Or Metallurgy? Or some other aspect?

I rate Zastava M57 over others due to longer grip which gives me more control. In case of other TTs, the grip is short. I was never accurate with any TT till I shot with Zastava.

As far as reliability is concerned, I have never faced any problem with any foreign made TT. All shot very fine.

Around 15 years ago, we had a Chinese TT which was gifted to us with half sack (that 50 Kgs fertilizer polypropylene bag) of mixed ammo (russian surplus sort of rusted, Chinese and Dara refilled). That TT shot every kind of ammo without any hick up. We experienced few dud rounds of Dara refilled ammo but that was ammo problem.

This Zastava has shot more than 800 rounds without any hick up. It shot first 750 rounds without de-greasing or cleaning.

I cannot differentiate between metallurgy with naked eye. But Zastava's metal is kind of different. It is lighter than Chinese although it has longer grip. The internals are very much the same. But Zastava are kind of more refined but not much difference.
you forgot to mention another big difference apart from the grip that is zastava has metal guide road.i will buy a zastava if they launch their ppz because i am a bit greedy about higher mag capacity or i will by px3 InshaAllah when i come to Pakistan.i give mag capacity credit to zastava not doubt.

Ameer
09-07-2014, 09:56 PM
I have one chinese tt which I had bought in 1989 . I took it out after 14 years it was lying without any regular oiling and cleaning. I fired 4 magzine without any problem . When diasmbled for cleaning there was no rust . Was fairly accurate at 25 m all the bullets were in 6 to 8 circle .
Ever reliable TTs.

Ameer
09-07-2014, 10:09 PM
@ Leon,
Never fired a zastava but I agree on the grip part.
The abundance of magazines is an attractive feature of all TTs except zastava. All the 8cap magazines are interchangeable, zastava doesn't enjoy this luxury.

Ameer
09-07-2014, 10:13 PM
My vote is also for Zastava finish is awesome and it works really cool as i bought one only ten days back here are photos check finish


Congratulations for the wonderful handgun

shahroze
09-07-2014, 10:14 PM
Leon, do you have long fingers?
I too am inaccurate with TT, though never tried the M57 but had a chance to handle it and it fit my hand like a glove i am thinking it would prove to be more accurate than 8 shot TT.
The small grip just throws off my stance thus effects my aim........

Leon
09-07-2014, 10:23 PM
@ shahroze,

Bro,
I have got medium size hand. Even then I am unable to fully grip TT.

Dr Zakir
09-07-2014, 11:02 PM
I was thinking of getting a TT made on order from islammuddin and now px3 has turned up and got me all confused especially the price .it is more then the np 42 or 34 or 22

Aquarius
09-07-2014, 11:27 PM
I was thinking of getting a TT made on order from islammuddin and now px3 has turned up and got me all confused especially the price .it is more then the np 42 or 34 or 22
But Dr Sb if this PX-3 performs well regarding its reliability, accuracy and specially its !!! durability, durability, durability.. I am just worried whether it will be as durable as other Chinese handguns you mentioned, because .30 bore is a powerful round & if it can withstand these powerful rounds then I don't mind spending few extra bucks for it.. this one word (DURABILITY) is a major factor which hinders my way to go for it.

Firing just 50-100 rounds doesn't justify that its a durable handgun.. one should fire atleast 1000-1500 rounds to come to a solid conclusion.

jonnyc
09-07-2014, 11:32 PM
Oh, Leon!!!
As a collector of all variations of the 7.62/.30 Bore cartridge, you have put me in great pain!

"gifted to us with half sack (that 50 Kgs fertilizer polypropylene bag) of mixed ammo (russian surplus sort of rusted, Chinese and Dara refilled)."

I probably needed half of those for my collection! I have seen pictures of the various "Darra" rounds/headstamps, but I have never seen any "live" examples.

Dr Zakir
09-07-2014, 11:52 PM
But Dr Sb if this PX-3 performs well regarding its reliability, accuracy and specially its !!! durability, durability, durability.. I am just worried whether it will be as durable as other Chinese handguns you mentioned, because .30 bore is a powerful round & if it can withstand these powerful rounds then I don't mind spending few extra bucks for it.. this one word (DURABILITY) is a major factor which hinders my way to go for it.

Firing just 50-100 rounds doesn't justify that its a durable handgun.. one should fire atleast 1000-1500 rounds to come to a solid conclusion.
I am thinking the same thing

FA226
10-07-2014, 12:45 AM
But Dr Sb if this PX-3 performs well regarding its reliability, accuracy and specially its !!! durability, durability, durability.. I am just worried whether it will be as durable as other Chinese handguns you mentioned, because .30 bore is a powerful round & if it can withstand these powerful rounds then I don't mind spending few extra bucks for it.. this one word (DURABILITY) is a major factor which hinders my way to go for it.

Firing just 50-100 rounds doesn't justify that its a durable handgun.. one should fire atleast 1000-1500 rounds to come to a solid conclusion.
Sir don,t worry about the durability as long as the the design is concern it is fully capable of handling a .30 round because Sig p226 all comes in .357sig which produces the same pressure as 7.62x25 round now i know some one will say its not Sig it Chinese OK so if Chinese metal is good for TT and 1911 it should be strong enough for px3.
my only concern is the mag quality because one member said the spring is not good.check the spring quality your self,if you find it Ok.just go for it i will be durable InshahAllah.

Dr Zakir
10-07-2014, 02:02 AM
I have not been able to find the pressure for .30 could any one guide a site

Ameer
10-07-2014, 02:52 AM
I was thinking of getting a TT made on order from islammuddin and now px3 has turned up and got me all confused especially the price .it is more then the np 42 or 34 or 22
Sir it wouldn't be the same fun as shooting a single action TT.

Leon
10-07-2014, 03:00 AM
I have not been able to find the pressure for .30 could any one guide a site

I read somewhere that Russian surplus ammo produces 31,000 c.u.p. Which means around 41,000 psi. While same page showed that S&B round produced 42,000 c.u.p. Which is 52,000 psi.

ajmal virk
10-07-2014, 08:48 AM
Yes Leon brother Zastava have different finsih as compared to all TT,s not much shiny so it looks cool and about accuracy will do some range testing this month InshAllah and will share.BTW after buying Zastava the 2 9MM i have do not look good to me lols.

ajmal virk
10-07-2014, 08:53 AM
Musk bro how would i find you in Sarghodha please contact me at ajmal.javed@combinedfabrics.com.

Leon
10-07-2014, 10:19 AM
Oh, Leon!!!
As a collector of all variations of the 7.62/.30 Bore cartridge, you have put me in great pain!

"gifted to us with half sack (that 50 Kgs fertilizer polypropylene bag) of mixed ammo (russian surplus sort of rusted, Chinese and Dara refilled)."

I probably needed half of those for my collection! I have seen pictures of the various "Darra" rounds/headstamps, but I have never seen any "live" examples.

Dont worry, they are not different. They are just refilled using old russian or chinese shell. And you can find these every where.

Aquarius
10-07-2014, 04:11 PM
Sir don,t worry about the durability as long as the the design is concern it is fully capable of handling a .30 round because Sig p226 all comes in .357sig which produces the same pressure as 7.62x25 round now i know some one will say its not Sig it Chinese OK so if Chinese metal is good for TT and 1911 it should be strong enough for px3.
my only concern is the mag quality because one member said the spring is not good.check the spring quality your self,if you find it Ok.just go for it i will be durable InshahAllah.

Thanks for your input bro.

Aquarius
10-07-2014, 04:12 PM
I read somewhere that Russian surplus ammo produces 31,000 c.u.p. Which means around 41,000 psi. While same page showed that S&B round produced 42,000 c.u.p. Which is 52,000 psi.

Nice share Leon bro.

s.jawad
10-07-2014, 07:13 PM
So you think Chinese TT is better than Zastava M57 ?? I have also heard the same & specially about the older Chinese models that they are the best.

@ Aquarius
Sir the older Chinese are much better than zastava but if we compare which are in this time available in our arm market then both are not trustworthy but if I want one for myself I will be buy a Chinese as I love Chinese and Russian more than zastava.
Regards

s.jawad
10-07-2014, 07:23 PM
:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:
Which one is good? Isn't it a difficult answer?

Are we rating them on some technical grounds? Or Metallurgy? Or some other aspect?

I rate Zastava M57 over others due to longer grip which gives me more control. In case of other TTs, the grip is short. I was never accurate with any TT till I shot with Zastava.

As far as reliability is concerned, I have never faced any problem with any foreign made TT. All shot very fine.

Around 15 years ago, we had a Chinese TT which was gifted to us with half sack (that 50 Kgs fertilizer polypropylene bag) of mixed ammo (russian surplus sort of rusted, Chinese and Dara refilled). That TT shot every kind of ammo without any hick up. We experienced few dud rounds of Dara refilled ammo but that was ammo problem.

This Zastava has shot more than 800 rounds without any hick up. It shot first 750 rounds without de-greasing or cleaning.

I cannot differentiate between metallurgy with naked eye. But Zastava's metal is kind of different. It is lighter than Chinese although it has longer grip. The internals are very much the same. But Zastava are kind of more refined but not much difference.

@ Leon
Sir I don't agree Chinese are much better than zastava. :heh:
Regards

Leon
10-07-2014, 09:21 PM
@ s.jawad,

Bhai Jee! Convince me on some facts.

I know that you have a very rare Chinese TT.

s.jawad
10-07-2014, 10:09 PM
@ s.jawad,

Bhai Jee! Convince me on some facts.

I know that you have a very rare Chinese TT.

@ Leon
Then convinced to PAA JEE and our shah JEE from mian chanu and joney brother to came with you to peshawar then I will be agree that zastava make a real pistol. .......Lolzz
And if you are not coming then wait inshallah after EID you all will be in trouble. :bump:
Regards

Leon
10-07-2014, 10:31 PM
@ s.jawad,

Don't challenge Joney and me. Sadatpk is however untrustworthy traitor and we cannot do anything about him.

How Joney and I cannot resist free lunch offer.

So, if you want to see us, sound your offer!

sadatpk
11-07-2014, 02:18 PM
@ s.jawad,

Don't challenge Joney and me. Sadatpk is however untrustworthy traitor and we cannot do anything about him.

How Joney and I cannot resist free lunch offer.

So, if you want to see us, sound your offer! Ajrummin Allah Leon,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

sadatpk
11-07-2014, 02:21 PM
@ Leon
Then convinced to PAA JEE and our shah JEE from mian chanu and joney brother to came with you to peshawar then I will be agree that zastava make a real pistol. .......Lolzz
And if you are not coming then wait inshallah after EID you all will be in trouble. :bump:
RegardsJawad bhi it will take a long time to get Leon understood something which is universally acknowledged and accepted fact 'so pls do not waste time on him and Let him enjoy his Zastava,

musk
11-07-2014, 03:05 PM
Musk bro how would i find you in Sarghodha please contact me at ajmal.javed@combinedfabrics.com.

Please check contact details are sent Ajmal Brother

Leon
11-07-2014, 10:02 PM
Jawad bhi it will take a long time to get Leon understood something which is universally acknowledged and accepted fact 'so pls do not waste time on him and Let him enjoy his Zastava,

Jee! Jee! Jee! Sada Kuta; Kuta, Taye tohada Kuta; Tommy!


Translation:

Yaa! Yaa! Yaa! Our Dog is called Dog, and You Dog is called Tommy!

sadatpk
11-07-2014, 11:41 PM
Jee! Jee! Jee! Sada Kuta; Kuta, Taye tohada Kuta; Tommy!Translation:Yaa! Yaa! Yaa! Our Dog is called Dog, and You Dog is called Tommy! my dear sir Leon,u r supreme member here at forum and this is TT thread,pls do not derail thread ,I m ready to hear u with fulll passion on call,dog,dog etc type cheap language does not suit ur gracefull personality imho,now pls come to TT 33 topic as u really know a lot aboiut modern weaponary ,pls never use cheap language ,as ur language and lexical items in ur syntax depicts ur innerself always,may Allah bless u alll for what u desire,I mean a lot of health wealth and bit wisdom more,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,waiting ur call now and coming to point,have u ever used TT 33.I m sure ur answer will be in negative,ok now let me say May u be blessed wd a TT,whether it be local,so u may proudly say u have a weapon in ur collection,its a great hand gun

Leon
12-07-2014, 12:03 AM
@ sadatpk,

From which planet you belong to? Earth? I seriously doubt that.

It isn't cheap language. I just quoted a dialogue from Punjabi Movie. Get a life Bro!

Ok! Come to the topic!

Enlighten me on the features of Chinese TT or Russian which make them better than Zasatava?

What Russian or Chinese have added in TT which Serbians could not?

sadatpk
12-07-2014, 12:57 AM
Chinese and Russian both are marvellous while Serbian TT nowadays are of low quality Imho,if u purchase all the three u. Will always prefer russian cal 30 and then chinese and at the third u will keep serbian beacause it has a long grip and not concealable in the way as a Tt must be because of its long grip,lastly pls do not let third class movies get over u,it will destroy ur ethics ,no doubt u r a graceful personality Masha Allah

High_Roller
12-07-2014, 01:20 AM
Chinese and Russian both are marvellous while Serbian TT nowadays are of low quality Imho,if u purchase all the three u. Will always prefer russian cal 30 and then chinese and at the third u will keep serbian beacause it has a long grip and not concealable in the way as a Tt must be because of its long grip,lastly pls do not let third class movies get over u,it will destroy ur ethics ,no doubt u r a graceful personality Masha Allah

Indeed older Russian r better then old Chinese but new zastava is far more better then these new Chinese and so called Russian TTs, but as the older ones are hard to find and rarely in mint condition so for someone new like myself it's best to go for zastava not 4 cc but for its louder bang ;), no hard feelings

Leon
12-07-2014, 02:58 AM
@ sadatpk,

Bro, I didn't know that:

1. You are metallurgy expert.
2. You are film critic as well.

Good quality is subjective statement. There must be some fact attached to it to make is objective.

Any solid data? Any Technical specification.

A bit longer grip makes it difficult to conceal. Is that all you have got against M57? Come On!

sadatpk
12-07-2014, 03:44 PM
@ sadatpk,



It isn't cheap language. I just quoted a dialogue from Punjabi Movie. Get a life Bro!



Enlighten me on the features of Chinese TT or Russian which make them better than Zasatava?

What Russian or Chinese have added in TT which Serbians could not?


@ sadatpk,

Bro, I didn't know that:

1. You are metallurgy expert.
2. You are film critic as well.

Good quality is subjective statement. There must be some fact attached to it to make is objective.

Any solid data? Any Technical specification.

A bit longer grip makes it difficult to conceal. Is that all you have got against M57? Come On! I m sorry my dear Leon,I m neither expert in metal nor have any acess to company data,I m just user of cal 30 wd full peace of mind,what I knew I told if u donnot ask me by name I really shoud not reply as we have experts here who can easily reply technical specs in detail ,,,,,,,,,now metal is ur field ,I do nt want to collect data required by you as ur concerns and opinions are mostly about Moi licenses and change form etc ,as regardingb pro and cons of TT,this is not ur subject IMHO u pls purchase caracal and enjoy withoutt helmet,

Leon
12-07-2014, 04:42 PM
@ sadatpk,

Ha ha ha! I don't expect such loose arguments from a criminal lawyer,

oh sorry,

criminology lawyer.

Anyway Bro, come up with some solid / debate winning arguments.

And leave this kind of taunts for illiterate women.

BTW, always use Barnal for burns! LOL!


Shah Jee! You started this, now only you can end this!

sadatpk
12-07-2014, 07:12 PM
U r my dearest Leon,I end this loving argument,now u pls come to Tt33 .br it is another astonishing fact that u will enjoy better accuracy wd JHP rounds in chinese cal30Pistol ,I do not know how Jhp behaves in russiann cal.30 and serbian beasts,

joney
12-07-2014, 10:52 PM
@ s.jawad,

Don't challenge Joney and me. Sadatpk is however untrustworthy traitor and we cannot do anything about him.

How Joney and I cannot resist free lunch offer.

So, if you want to see us, sound your offer!

True Leon... All we need a simple text from you Jawad brother... we'll be there!!!!!

Get read then!!

joney
12-07-2014, 10:57 PM
how did I miss this thread...

some serious "Aurtoon Wali Larai" is goin on there!.

@Leon & Sadatpk Brothers,

Why don't you guy bring your babies. I mean Chinese and Serbian TT's.. Let them proof themselves..

Let me host an Aftar Dinner, and let's meet on the range next weekend to conclude this "Yab"...

Leon
12-07-2014, 10:57 PM
@ Sadatpk,

No! No! No! A good lawyer don't conclude his arguments like this.

@ All,

Bros, Please don't take the arguments between Sadatpk and I negatively or as fight. These were friendly fires which we exchange every now and then.

Am I right Sadatpk Bro?


@ Joney,

You have rightly put it. We are a SMS away.

@ s.jawad,

Bro, now ball is in your court.

Atif Bashir
13-07-2014, 12:00 AM
Dear Leon and SadatPk brothers as no fact and figures required for ongoing matter so i claim that my local made TT by Ustad Zafar from Gatti Factory is batter then all three TTs under discussion.

Regards,

sadatpk
13-07-2014, 12:48 AM
Indeed Atif bhi, welcome back,,,,,,

Dr Zakir
13-07-2014, 12:58 AM
Atif bro do u have any idea who makes best desi TT

jonnyc
13-07-2014, 08:11 AM
I have a Russian TT, Romanian TTC, Chinese T54, and a Zastava M57. They are all equally accurate, reliable, and lots of fun to shoot. I have only ever sold one ".30 Bore", and that was a total piece of junk "MADE AS CHINA" from somewhere in the hills of Pakistan. I think it is foolish to argue abour which "TT" is best when it seems pretty well known which is worst. You will be well-served by guaranteed imported Chinese or Serbian pistol. Save your money and get something that you are sure you can rely on. I think you will always wonder if you go cheap and get one of the many different varieties of Desi/Darra pistols. Can you ever really trust it???

ajmal virk
13-07-2014, 09:34 AM
There is no doubt about accuracy yesterday fired around 150 rouds through my Zastava and it was awesome to see this gun hitting target again and again from 30 meters and the shooters was ordinary i.e me.

s.jawad
13-07-2014, 01:04 PM
@ Sadatpk,

No! No! No! A good lawyer don't conclude his arguments like this.

@ All,

Bros, Please don't take the arguments between Sadatpk and I negatively or as fight. These were friendly fires which we exchange every now and then.

Am I right Sadatpk Bro?


@ Joney,

You have rightly put it. We are a SMS away.

@ s.jawad,

Bro, now ball is in your court.

@ Leon
@ Sadatpk
What's going on .
Ok after ramzan mubarak I come to head office and you all will be also came and then we decide I think you all know about HO.
Regards

HeartTTAK
13-07-2014, 01:13 PM
a BIG NO NO for all desi TTs.........

Aquarius
13-07-2014, 03:08 PM
Atif bro do u have any idea who makes best desi TT
Lolzzz Dr Sb you are also attracted towards desi TT.

Aquarius
13-07-2014, 03:12 PM
Ok after ramzan mubarak I come to head office and you all will be also came and then we decide I think you all know about HO.
Regards

jawad bro what do mean by this HO ??

Aquarius
13-07-2014, 03:12 PM
a BIG NO NO for all desi TTs.........
+1... fully agree bro.

musk
13-07-2014, 08:35 PM
There is no doubt about accuracy yesterday fired around 150 rouds through my Zastava and it was awesome to see this gun hitting target again and again from 30 meters and the shooters was ordinary i.e me.
Impressive shooting Ajmal Brother. My itch for Zastava is increasing after reading your post.

musk
13-07-2014, 08:38 PM
a BIG NO NO for all desi TTs.........

There are few Desi TT's Which are quite reliable.

While unbranded desi TT's are real piece of junk

joney
14-07-2014, 03:29 PM
jawad bro what do mean by this HO ??

HO=Head Office=Darbar of Murshid paak=SARGODHA

:P......

sadatpk
14-07-2014, 07:52 PM
HO=Head Office=Darbar of Murshid paak=SARGODHA

:P...... Murshad who has been disappeared for ramzan fasts

HeartTTAK
14-07-2014, 08:15 PM
31501315023150331502my russian girlfriend.............

Mian Jee
14-07-2014, 08:25 PM
31502my russian girlfriend.............

No arguments, but it's almost DESI.

musk
14-07-2014, 08:30 PM
No arguments, but it's almost DESI.

My DESI TT seems better then this

musk
14-07-2014, 08:31 PM
HO=Head Office=Darbar of Murshid paak=SARGODHA

:P......
Who is Murshid Paak............MIAN JI?

HeartTTAK
14-07-2014, 09:02 PM
Mian g excuse me plz look at it carefully. its orignal Russian and its barrel has same seriel number which is on handgun and magzines. Barrel pic im uploading but its not working. I know u have chineese TT there. but no compete to this Russian baby. This TT i checked to almost 5 dealers also it belongs to my grandfather and now inherited to me. But dont call it Desi. I know handguns too.

HeartTTAK
14-07-2014, 09:05 PM
musk bro dont go towards fancy stuff. go for quality products. i ahev dealer friends and they will offer u a desi tt which will be so much fancy that you will love it. Orignal ones are some type you can say a simple shape

HeartTTAK
14-07-2014, 09:30 PM
31506 my Russian TT magzine number same as to barrel

musk
14-07-2014, 09:34 PM
musk bro dont go towards fancy stuff. go for quality products. i ahev dealer friends and they will offer u a desi tt which will be so much fancy that you will love it. Orignal ones are some type you can say a simple shape
Ok Brother

Dr Zakir
14-07-2014, 10:45 PM
Lolzzz Dr Sb you are also attracted towards desi TT.
Sir what do u think of a specially made on order TT with Chinese barrel . For collection purposes

Dr Zakir
14-07-2014, 10:47 PM
I think it is on the dealer word otherwise it is very difficult to identify a desi TT ftom walayti

FA226
14-07-2014, 10:58 PM
I think it is on the dealer word otherwise it is very difficult to identify a desi TT ftom walayti
I totally agree with you.

Aquarius
15-07-2014, 12:35 AM
Sir what do u think of a specially made on order TT with Chinese barrel . For collection purposes
Yes for collection its a good option.

shahroze
15-07-2014, 01:39 AM
Forgive my ignorance, but why a Chinese barrel if it's for collection purpose?

Dr Zakir
15-07-2014, 01:51 AM
Because although for collection but should be safe enough for occasional firing. I beleive chineese barrel will increase the safety margin

Ameer
15-07-2014, 02:58 AM
I think it is on the dealer word otherwise it is very difficult to identify a desi TT ftom walayti
especially TT. Agreed.

HeartTTAK
15-07-2014, 11:05 AM
Dr Zakir bro
In specialy made TT the Rate is 15-18 K. they use Angreezi barrel like chineese, zastava etc and firing pin. The parts most imporant are barrel and firing pin. But point to be noted the grade of steel which the desi uses cant compete the grade of Angreezi bz the desi dont have weapon grade steel. The desi catches rust very quickly even if u oil it and keep it for a week. So dont go for the dara made Junks. Go for Russian if u have hand on it, than chineese and after that Zastava.
Following is my Russian TT barrel and the seriel number is same on the magzines. No one can stamp this seriel on barrel. Its the main orignality which you can differentiate.

s.jawad
15-07-2014, 07:08 PM
jawad bro what do mean by this HO ??

Aquarius brother as already explained by joney brother HO means headquarter (sargodha).
Regards

sajjadjutt
15-07-2014, 07:44 PM
Dr Zakir bro
In specialy made TT the Rate is 15-18 K. they use Angreezi barrel like chineese, zastava etc and firing pin. The parts most imporant are barrel and firing pin. But point to be noted the grade of steel which the desi uses cant compete the grade of Angreezi bz the desi dont have weapon grade steel. The desi catches rust very quickly even if u oil it and keep it for a week. So dont go for the dara made Junks. Go for Russian if u have hand on it, than chineese and after that Zastava.
Following is my Russian TT barrel and the seriel number is same on the magzines. No one can stamp this seriel on barrel. Its the main orignality which you can differentiate.
Bro mostly peoples in pk have own the chines TT, and 99.9% peoples satisfied by their chines TT. but if you look other just like the russian or zastava one....... so many question rise ....just like zastava mags issue ......and russian is very hard to find original one......i have two black barrel chines TT.....and i am 100% satisfied by my chines TT....

Crony
15-07-2014, 08:18 PM
Dr Zakir bro
In specialy made TT the Rate is 15-18 K. they use Angreezi barrel like chineese, zastava etc and firing pin. The parts most imporant are barrel and firing pin. But point to be noted the grade of steel which the desi uses cant compete the grade of Angreezi bz the desi dont have weapon grade steel. The desi catches rust very quickly even if u oil it and keep it for a week. So dont go for the dara made Junks. Go for Russian if u have hand on it, than chineese and after that Zastava.
Following is my Russian TT barrel and the seriel number is same on the magzines. No one can stamp this seriel on barrel. Its the main orignality which you can differentiate.

HeartTTAK dear bro... this looks original Russian TT. What is the price? and from where did you buy.. I bought mine one from Abbottabad. Both are looking same in structure.

FA226
15-07-2014, 08:38 PM
Because although for collection but should be safe enough for occasional firing. I beleive chineese barrel will increase the safety margin
Sir my humble opinion is don't buy desi with so called Chinese parts because they charge you the price almost near to new Chinese TT so buy a Chinese TT i guess 21k in Peshawar instead of paying 15k-16k for desi.

Aquarius
15-07-2014, 09:25 PM
Aquarius brother as already explained by joney brother HO means headquarter (sargodha).
Regards
Okay.. thanks jawad bro.

Aquarius
15-07-2014, 09:26 PM
Sir my humble opinion is don't buy desi with so called Chinese parts because they charge you the price almost near to new Chinese TT so buy a Chinese TT i guess 21k in Peshawar instead of paying 15k-16k for desi.
I agree with you.

Dr Zakir
15-07-2014, 11:49 PM
Thankyou for all your advices .

Dr Zakir
16-07-2014, 01:31 AM
Duplicate post

hmd
16-07-2014, 05:04 AM
Sir my humble opinion is don't buy desi with so called Chinese parts because they charge you the price almost near to new Chinese TT so buy a Chinese TT i guess 21k in Peshawar instead of paying 15k-16k for desi.
Well said bro it's better to put more or save more to get a Chinese TT then a Desi for 16k .

Crony
16-07-2014, 09:11 AM
31506 my Russian TT magzine number same as to barrel

HeartTTAK bro, could you please upload picture of barrel?

HeartTTAK
16-07-2014, 12:19 PM
Crony bro barrel pic i had uploaded earlier. check it in the thread

HeartTTAK
17-07-2014, 08:55 PM
1. Russian 1933 TT-30 7.62x25mm
2. Russian 1943 TT-33 7.62x25
3. Chinese Type 54 7.62x25mm
4. Chinese M20 7.62x25mm
5. Yugoslav M57 7.62x25mm
6. Hungarian Tokagypt 58 7.62x25
7. Hungarian M48 7.62x25mm
8. 1949 Polish 7.62x25mm
9. 1951 Polish 7.62x25mm
10. 1955 Polish Sportky 22 cal RF
11. North Korean Type 66 7.62x25mm

Aquarius
17-07-2014, 09:08 PM
Nice share HeartTTAK bro.

Aquarius
17-07-2014, 11:34 PM
What happened to ACHILLES bro.. is that really you ACHILLES ??

jonnyc
18-07-2014, 01:39 AM
HeartTTAK, all I can say is WOW!!!
That is a beautiful collection. But............I have a Romanian!
You are very lucky to have all of those.....at least the slides. Did you find them all in Pakistan?

FA226
18-07-2014, 03:37 AM
What happened to ACHILLES bro.. is that really you ACHILLES ??

i think some one might have hacked his account.

Crony
18-07-2014, 12:10 PM
1. Russian 1933 TT-30 7.62x25mm
2. Russian 1943 TT-33 7.62x25
3. Chinese Type 54 7.62x25mm
4. Chinese M20 7.62x25mm
5. Yugoslav M57 7.62x25mm
6. Hungarian Tokagypt 58 7.62x25
7. Hungarian M48 7.62x25mm
8. 1949 Polish 7.62x25mm
9. 1951 Polish 7.62x25mm
10. 1955 Polish Sportky 22 cal RF
11. North Korean Type 66 7.62x25mm

HeartTTAK bro, thank you for sharing this.

HeartTTAK
18-07-2014, 08:35 PM
TT-33 Barrel locking system is different
A comparison of the barrels of the Browning clones and the barrel of the Browning P-35(b)
Top: TT-33 (to ease production, Tokarev decided to machine the locking rings all the way around the barrel)
Middle: Radom P-35(p)
Bottom Browning P-35(b)

Aquarius
18-07-2014, 09:14 PM
The last one looks as if its broken.. BTW which TT uses the second & last barrels.. I have one with the 1st locking system.

Dr Zakir
19-07-2014, 12:27 AM
1. Russian 1933 TT-30 7.62x25mm
2. Russian 1943 TT-33 7.62x25
3. Chinese Type 54 7.62x25mm
4. Chinese M20 7.62x25mm
5. Yugoslav M57 7.62x25mm
6. Hungarian Tokagypt 58 7.62x25
7. Hungarian M48 7.62x25mm
8. 1949 Polish 7.62x25mm
9. 1951 Polish 7.62x25mm
10. 1955 Polish Sportky 22 cal RF
11. North Korean Type 66 7.62x25mm
can we have side poses please

Aquarius
19-07-2014, 12:50 AM
can we have side poses please
I guess the picture is from the web.

Dr Zakir
19-07-2014, 01:10 AM
Oh i thought it was a personal collection

Aquarius
19-07-2014, 01:17 AM
Here is the link.. post #12


http://www.theakforum.net/forums/70-eastern-bloc-pistols/70746-yugoslav-hungarian-tokarevs.html

HeartTTAK
19-07-2014, 08:13 PM
Dr Zakir crony Aquarious bro and jonny c. I havent said its my personal pics. These are from web and for my knowledge i search web and the post which i like some where else i share here for ur knowledge update.2ndly im not making my self macho here to prove infront of someone. I dont need this kind of macho puna. So all the brothers commenting on my post could you plz make any reliable update here or just............. samajh tay gae howo gay

HeartTTAK
19-07-2014, 08:16 PM
Aquarious wrora if you know that post why didnt share it with us. Dont be mean.....
Ilm sadqa hay is ko phelana chiay. poe shway kana

Aquarius
19-07-2014, 09:51 PM
Aquarious wrora if you know that post why didnt share it with us. Dont be mean.....
Ilm sadqa hay is ko phelana chiay. poe shway kana
My dear HeartTTak Bro I posted the link to help you regarding Dr Zakir's query in post#152 & I have also appreciated you in my thread before for the nice share.. and you "Ulta mata ghusa kege".. just relax bro and enjoy life.

And BTW there are hundreds of thousands of threads like these on the web, so should I post all these threads to prove I am not mean.
PS: I appreciate your Pushto lolzz

Dr Zakir
20-07-2014, 12:30 AM
Dr Zakir crony Aquarious bro and jonny c. I havent said its my personal pics. These are from web and for my knowledge i search web and the post which i like some where else i share here for ur knowledge update.2ndly im not making my self macho here to prove infront of someone. I dont need this kind of macho puna. So all the brothers commenting on my post could you plz make any reliable update here or just............. samajh tay gae howo gay
Bro no hard feelings was happy to see that a fellow member has such a nice collection

Hadii
20-07-2014, 12:37 AM
Why go for desi when russian and Chinese does not cost fortune

joney
22-07-2014, 08:10 PM
Why go for desi when russian and Chinese does not cost fortune

Depends on need of use.

you cant rely on them but i guess for collection purpose or having shughal mela in the field will be good enough and they'll serve the purpose!

Enigmatic Desires
24-07-2014, 11:52 AM
Depends on need of use.

you cant rely on them but i guess for collection purpose or having shughal mela in the field will be good enough and they'll serve the purpose!

joney.. Whats a shugal mela in the field?

Khawaja Omar
25-07-2014, 05:04 AM
@ HeartTTAK

I fully agree with you sir.. Russian TTs are the best of all variants by other countries like china and serbia etc.. There are different year models in russian tt pistols. Mostly they are made in tula. The ones which have a star sign are of tula. There are old russian tt pistols with thin straight line grip serrations on slide and there are later models of russian tt which has thick serrations. There are many markings on different parts of russian tt pistols. Actually the markings are russian proof marks by the factory. Eg on the trigger guard u'll find small cuts like proof marks. Each proof mark indicates a meaning for russian tula production plant. Russian tt pistols are much superior than chinese serbian and all other copies of it. Russian pistols are heavy in weight than a chinese pistol. Russian tt's metallurgy is highly advanced than chinese and other ones. Top most thing is that russian ones are true Tokarevs. The classic ones. Russian TT's barrels are not chromed like chinese pistols. Thats why russians are more accurate. Chrome lining always reduces accuracy. There are many other differences between russian tt and chinese ones. Especially in its feel.. The feel of russian tt when you rack the slide.. HeartTTAK brother knows what I am talking about. Its really a privilege to own a classic russian tokarev.

Crony
25-07-2014, 11:02 AM
@ HeartTTAK

I fully agree with you sir.. Russian TTs are the best of all variants by other countries like china and serbia etc.. There are different year models in russian tt pistols. Mostly they are made in tula. The ones which have a star sign are of tula. There are old russian tt pistols with thin straight line grip serrations on slide and there are later models of russian tt which has thick serrations. There are many markings on different parts of russian tt pistols. Actually the markings are russian proof marks by the factory. Eg on the trigger guard u'll find small cuts like proof marks. Each proof mark indicates a meaning for russian tula production plant. Russian tt pistols are much superior than chinese serbian and all other copies of it. Russian pistols are heavy in weight than a chinese pistol. Russian tt's metallurgy is highly advanced than chinese and other ones. Top most thing is that russian ones are true Tokarevs. The classic ones. Russian TT's barrels are not chromed like chinese pistols. Thats why russians are more accurate. Chrome lining always reduces accuracy. There are many other differences between russian tt and chinese ones. Especially in its feel.. The feel of russian tt when you rack the slide.. HeartTTAK brother knows what I am talking about. Its really a privilege to own a classic russian tokarev.

Sir, very sound and technical knowledge of Russian TT. I became more confident after reading it. I have one Russian TT with me.

joney
25-07-2014, 11:13 AM
joney.. Whats a shugal mela in the field?

occasionally some fun @ Range....

Leon
25-07-2014, 11:21 AM
Heavy does not mean metal is good. Secondly, on what technical grounds russian TTs or Russian Metal is superior than Chinese or Serbian? Or it is just a feel?

Ameer
25-07-2014, 01:15 PM
All TTs are just solid built tanks, all are good. The only thing that makes it better...........is personal preference.

sajjadjutt
25-07-2014, 01:39 PM
@ HeartTTAK

I fully agree with you sir.. Russian TTs are the best of all variants by other countries like china and serbia etc.. There are different year models in russian tt pistols. Mostly they are made in tula. The ones which have a star sign are of tula. There are old russian tt pistols with thin straight line grip serrations on slide and there are later models of russian tt which has thick serrations. There are many markings on different parts of russian tt pistols. Actually the markings are russian proof marks by the factory. Eg on the trigger guard u'll find small cuts like proof marks. Each proof mark indicates a meaning for russian tula production plant. Russian tt pistols are much superior than chinese serbian and all other copies of it. Russian pistols are heavy in weight than a chinese pistol. Russian tt's metallurgy is highly advanced than chinese and other ones. Top most thing is that russian ones are true Tokarevs. The classic ones. Russian TT's barrels are not chromed like chinese pistols. Thats why russians are more accurate. Chrome lining always reduces accuracy. There are many other differences between russian tt and chinese ones. Especially in its feel.. The feel of russian tt when you rack the slide.. HeartTTAK brother knows what I am talking about. Its really a privilege to own a classic russian tokarev.
Bro totally disagreed with you..........chines winamex tt is far better than russian........find the russian tt in those days really hard ............chines sever the far better than russian.

sajjadjutt
25-07-2014, 02:17 PM
All TTs are just solid built tanks, all are good. The only thing that makes it better...........is personal preference.
Ameer bro............totally agree with you............

HeartTTAK
25-07-2014, 03:45 PM
Khwaja Omer bro thanks for the compliments. Russian is Orignal Tokarev thats all. Next according to Sajjad bro you are right in sence that If U cannot find a orignal Russian than go for Chineese one.
Sajjad bro and Ameer bro plz check also any Russian you find with your friend and fire it rack both Russian and Chineese. You will find that thing that Khwaja Omer is saying that FEEL..........mmmmmmm really

Khawaja Omar
25-07-2014, 05:17 PM
Sir, very sound and technical knowledge of Russian TT. I became more confident after reading it. I have one Russian TT with me.

Thank you janab

Khawaja Omar
25-07-2014, 05:29 PM
Heavy does not mean metal is good. Secondly, on what technical grounds russian TTs or Russian Metal is superior than Chinese or Serbian? Or it is just a feel?

Yes you are right heavy does not mean metal is good. Heavy in the sense of thin and thick milling. And yes definitely russian metal is far superior than chinese norinco and others. Maybe you know this or not but chinese metal catches rust very easily.. U keep chinese metal for some days in open while a after rainy type season and you will notice that i will have spottings of rust. Whereas Russian metal never catches rust. Same is the case with russian-afghan war era rifles that came with russia. Chinese norinco clone of that rifle catches rust easily but russian metallurgy of high grade metal standard. It never catches rust as easy as chinese or other metal. I think this ak type discussion is not allowed otherwise i would have written a more detailed reply comparing russian and chinese metallurgy in their pistols and rifles. So ita a 110% damn sure and definite reality that russian metal is far better than chinese. And the feel in Russian TT are based on its metal thickness. Like the difference in bolt racking you will observe in milled and stamped receiver rifles.

Khawaja Omar
25-07-2014, 05:37 PM
All TTs are just solid built tanks, all are good. The only thing that makes it better...........is personal preference.

I totally disagree with you on this. All TT's are not of same quality and metallurgy. You just leave russian for now. Let me tell you that even there are differences in chinese TT pistols quality. Winamex is a direct copy of russian TT by tula plant with thick serrations. Its metal is thick like russians used. Even chinese tt's after winamex were of good quality than the ones available now from norinco. I would like a very experienced person on this matter to reply. Who has a experience of old and new chinese tt's. You can ask any old gun shop owner about this or any old gun smith that what is the quality difference is old chinese pistols and new chinese pistols especially TT's.

Khawaja Omar
25-07-2014, 05:58 PM
Bro totally disagreed with you..........chines winamex tt is far better than russian........find the russian tt in those days really hard ............chines sever the far better than russian.


Bro totally disagreed with you..........chines winamex tt is far better than russian........find the russian tt in those days really hard ............chines sever the far better than russian.

Sir you can say that winamex pistols are far more better than other chinese TT's but you can never say and claim that winamex is better than russian. Weather you know this or not, winamex is a direct copy of Russian Tula Tokarev pistol made from 1935 to 1942 with thick grip serrations on the slide. Winamex are heavy in weight like russians and unlike rest of norinco chinese. Winamex has that sturdy and solid feel like russians but remember they are not russian metallurgy, they are after all made of chinese metal that is prone to rust far quick than russian metal.

Khawaja Omar
25-07-2014, 06:14 PM
Khwaja Omer bro thanks for the compliments. Russian is Orignal Tokarev thats all. Next according to Sajjad bro you are right in sence that If U cannot find a orignal Russian than go for Chineese one.
Sajjad bro and Ameer bro plz check also any Russian you find with your friend and fire it rack both Russian and Chineese. You will find that thing that Khwaja Omer is saying that FEEL..........mmmmmmm really

Thank you Janab HeartTTAK sahab. Plz read my other comments. There is a main difference in chinese and russian metallurgy. Russian metal does not corrode easily. It lasts for many many years but chinese metal catches rust very easily. I dont know why people forget that afterall china serbia romania and all others are clones of Russian Tula Tokarev. Winamex is very much superior quality than other chinese pistols because it is a direct copy of Russian TT from 1935 to 1942 wth thick grip serrations and thick overall metal. So yes winamex gives a sturdy feel and sound like russian when you rack the slide. And yes winamex is heavy in weight than other norinco china TT just like russian TT is heavy in weight than china pistols due to thick metal milling used.

Khawaja Omar
25-07-2014, 06:19 PM
I dont think i need to repeat and rewrite what actually winamex pistols are and who made them on whose order. But i say here that winamex are not like norinco TT pistols. The problem is that nowadays most of the illiterate dealers and people who dont have information call every chinese norinco TT as a Winamex. Winamex is very superior in quality than norinco TT.

Ameer
25-07-2014, 09:44 PM
I totally disagree with you on this. All TT's are not of same quality and metallurgy. You just leave russian for now. Let me tell you that even there are differences in chinese TT pistols quality. Winamex is a direct copy of russian TT by tula plant with thick serrations. Its metal is thick like russians used. Even chinese tt's after winamex were of good quality than the ones available now from norinco. I would like a very experienced person on this matter to reply. Who has a experience of old and new chinese tt's. You can ask any old gun shop owner about this or any old gun smith that what is the quality difference is old chinese pistols and new chinese pistols especially TT's.
Couldn't not disagree as a whole, but agree that you failed to agree on my point.
If this is the difference u saying that there is difference between SIGs of Germany n US. There is then difference between GLOCKS of difference countries.
I was picking TT as compared to others, that's y I said it's all solid built.......just pick any.

Khawaja Omar
25-07-2014, 10:24 PM
Couldn't not disagree as a whole, but agree that you failed to agree on my point.
If this is the difference u saying that there is difference between SIGs of Germany n US. There is then difference between GLOCKS of difference countries.
I was picking TT as compared to others, that's y I said it's all solid built.......just pick any.

Your point is not valid janab.. One way you are talking about matelurgy on the other hand you are saying that its the same differences in sig sauer and glocks made in different countries. You are forgetting that in sig and glock case the brand remains the same its just they are making them in usa with cosmetic differences mainly i.e finish type and some difference in stamps. So plz have a look at your own answer and do a better research on difference in metallurgy.in russia made Tula Tokarev pistol and china made norinco TT clone. And yes i dont like usa made sig sauer and usa symrana made glock. I dont even like symrana assembled glock with us pat number on grip. Thats why i bought glock 19 pure austrian with austrian proof marks.

sadatpk
25-07-2014, 10:35 PM
Your point is not valid janab.. One way you are talking about matelurgy on the other hand you are saying that its the same differences in sig sauer and glocks made in different countries. You are forgetting that in sig and glock case the brand remains the same its just they are making them in usa with cosmetic differences mainly i.e finish type and some difference in stamps. So plz have a look at your own answer and do a better research on difference in metallurgy.in russia made Tula Tokarev pistol and china made norinco TT clone. And yes i dont like usa made sig sauer and usa symrana made glock. I dont even like symrana assembled glock with us pat number on grip. Thats why i bought glock 19 pure austrian with austrian proof marks. your points are valid as well my br,but being polite and humble wd seniors is the grace of pakgunners,being rude and stiff we can convey but in-effectively ,IMHO respect of worthy members is more important,u pls do not purchase what u dislike my respected khawaja sb

Legion-Lad
25-07-2014, 10:47 PM
aSalamualikum guys, I was reading your posts about the difference & feeling about the quality of TT, I am also a fan of TT & I have seen & fired the TT alot, I have myself examined 10-12 different TT's, let me tell you that there was'nt a single similarity in there feeling,weight,springs,guide rod,main spring,grips & accuracy. If someone says the feeling are different, I think its 50 50, I have a TT local which feels more compact then a Russian & I have handled Russians who were not that compact or not giving that feel which was 35k (used) in stainless steel & the other 2 Russian which were black & those were solidly built & one was a bit shorter.
Why cant you tell the Difference,
its because of the wide spread production of the TT, in Sakhna Kot & Dara there are hundreds of TT productions on small basis so definitely only a lucky person will get a solid one & if its solid then its sold in the name of Chinese TTs, & even a peron who was just a trunk maker in a small town near our location mastered in its production & he was able to built the whole TT totally on his own, so the point is the you can not tell by its finish or feel that where is it made, I am damn sure about this because here I have shopkeepers friend & they have handled & sold 100's of them, they even cant tell you the difference easily, only way is to differ the local from Chinese & Russian is recoil spring,guide rod quality & accuracy but that's can't be decided at the point of buying but only after firing it.
Only a trustworthy friend & dealer can give you that piece which is a real end-to-end assured made in abroad.
Regards.

Khawaja Omar
25-07-2014, 11:15 PM
your points are valid as well my br,but being polite and humble wd seniors is the grace of pakgunners,being rude and stiff we can convey but in-effectively ,IMHO respect of worthy members is more important,u pls do not purchase what u dislike my respected khawaja sb

Ahen ahem... Senior members.... Btw where have you found me of not being polite????? Brother i'll surely object ur "senior member" thing here.. It is knowledge which makes and decides wether one or senior or junior.. No offence brother but if you only judge anyone's seniority and knowledge level on the basis of their amount of posts here, i would definitely disagree with you. If a person has joined pak guns recently and does not have 10,000 posts and haven't increased his posts by thank you, welcome, congrats bro, nice purchase type comments and posts, that does not mean he is not knowledgeable.. I think i have made my self very clear.

Khawaja Omar
25-07-2014, 11:24 PM
If anyone wants to disagree with my knowledge or what i have written about russian TT then plz give appropriate and genuine reason. Do not try to dominate and judge anyone by a lame excuse of senior/junior based on amount of his posts.

Leon
26-07-2014, 12:06 AM
@ Khawaja Omar,

Bro, Isn't you, who is declaring a weapon superior over other without technical ground?

Does weight of weapon makes it superior in quality? If that is the case, Glocks being lightest pistol stand no where?

How come a TT-33 which made a half a century ago is superior to other TT made recently? Won't you account for advances in metallurgy in past half century?

We now have types of steel which are lightweight but stronger than steel we used to have half a century ago.

We now have latest production techniques and machines which we didn't have a century ago.

Take example of barrels. We can now shot any kind of ammo from some barrels. Whereas, the barrels in past were restricted to certain type of ammos.

Now we have actions / frames made of aluminum which are stronger than steel actions / frames made half a century ago.

My question is very simple; do you have any technical date / bases on which you are rating TT-33 superior over other TTs.

Khawaja Omar
26-07-2014, 12:29 AM
@ Khawaja Omar,

Bro, Isn't you, who is declaring a weapon superior over other without technical ground?

Does weight of weapon makes it superior in quality? If that is the case, Glocks being lightest pistol stand no where?

How come a TT-33 which made a half a century ago is superior to other TT made recently? Won't you account for advances in metallurgy in past half century?

We now have types of steel which are lightweight but stronger than steel we used to have half a century ago.

We now have latest production techniques and machines which we didn't have a century ago.

Take example of barrels. We can now shot any kind of ammo from some barrels. Whereas, the barrels in past were restricted to certain type of ammos.

Now we have actions / frames made of aluminum which are stronger than steel actions / frames made half a century ago.

My question is very simple; do you have any technical date / bases on which you are rating TT-33 superior over other TTs.

I have already written the technical reasons of russian TT being superior over the other clones but somehow you only managed to see and point out the weight thing.. I never said that heavy is better. Lolx.. You gave glock example.. Janab glock is a polymer frame... We are only talking abt TT and same platform.. Let me give u a better example.. Norinco type 56 rifle is a stamped sheet receiver.. Russian akm is also a stamped sheet receiver. Norince stamped sheet is thicker than russian metal sheet thus more weight but still russian metal is more durable and rust/corrosion resistant than china metal stamped sheet.. My point is that russian metal is superior than chinese. Mostly people argue that chinese tt clones have chrome lined barrel and russian tt dont so chinese is better. This doesnt really it is.. Non chrome barrel is always more accurate. High-end competition grade rifles and handguns eg cz tactical sport competition pistol also doesnt have chrome lined barrel.. Its a latest production. Cz can make chrome barrel in ts like they have in their handguns but they havent.. Why??? Because ts is a precision shooting competition handgun which requires more accuracy. Chrome barrel always reduces friction and accuracy.

Khawaja Omar
26-07-2014, 12:35 AM
I have owned a serbian TT.. Zastava.. I own a old production norinco type 54 but still I say and believe Russian tula tokarev 33 pistols are of high quality than chinese and serbian. I have mentioned the reasons.

Khawaja Omar
26-07-2014, 12:47 AM
If you hold and examine a russian tt closely, you will notice its parts are of very high quality than chinese. Its production quality is greater than china and serbia. Its parts are rounded and edges finished smoothly. Every part of it feels smooth unlike china and serbia tt clone which have sharp edges, un-smoothed metal on every part..

sadatpk
26-07-2014, 01:07 AM
Ahen ahem... Senior members.... Btw where have you found me of not being polite????? Brother i'll surely object ur "senior member" thing here.. It is knowledge which makes and decides wether one or senior or junior.. No offence brother but if you only judge anyone's seniority and knowledge level on the basis of their amount of posts here, i would definitely disagree with you. If a person has joined pak guns recently and does not have 10,000 posts and haven't increased his posts by thank you, welcome, congrats bro, nice purchase type comments and posts, that dyoes not mean he is not knowledgeable.. I think i have made my self very clear.
We have gem of experts here wd us since beginning,being student here I did never see an expert claiming himself superior,this is done only by those who know nothing iMHO,we r clear now that you also know about ARm,ur syntx has depicted all about ur knowledge,Leon,Aquarius,Ameer, E.d'Denovo ,Mian 50,dr Gilani,Mian jee,Umar butt,bbilal,triger happy,Ahmad Moeen, there are somany bothers including legendry Sir Skeeter know a lot more than me and you khawaja sb,nodoubt ,

Khawaja Omar
26-07-2014, 01:18 AM
We have gem of experts here wd us since beginning,being student here I did not never see an expert claiming himself superior,this is done only by those who know nothing iMHO,we r clear now that you also know about ARm,ur syntx has depicted all about ur knowledge,Leon,Aquarius,Ameer, E.d'Denovo ,Mian 50,dr Gilani,Mian jee,Umar butt,bbilal,triger happy,Ahmad ,Atiq, Moeen, there are somany bothers including legendary Sir Skeeter know a lot than me and you khawaja sb,nodoubt ,

@sadatpk

Brother it is better if you keep this personal opinion about your own self only. I mean why are to trying to judge me???? U told me that u r a student here . Do u know anything about me??? Obviously no.. So you have no right to say who is better than whom.. Kindly keep this to your self only. Thank you.

Khawaja Omar
26-07-2014, 01:27 AM
We have gem of experts here wd us since beginning,being student here I did not never see an expert claiming himself superior,this is done only by those who know nothing iMHO,we r clear now that you also know about ARm,ur syntx has depicted all about ur knowledge,Leon,Aquarius,Ameer, E.d'Denovo ,Mian 50,dr Gilani,Mian jee,Umar butt,bbilal,triger happy,Ahmad ,Atiq, Moeen, there are somany bothers including legendary Sir Skeeter know a lot than me and you khawaja sb,nodoubt ,

Brother if you have to comment on russian TT topic then do it.. You are welcome but please dont try to be personal.. Dont try to suggest people how they should do things. Who are you to tell anyone that so and so is superior than so and so..

sadatpk
26-07-2014, 01:54 AM
Brother if you have to comment on russian TT topic then do it.. You are welcome but please dont try to personal.. Dont try to suggest people how they should do things. Who are you to tell anyone that so and so is superior than so and so..
I m learner here and just shared reality,I know what I m to write,Russian Tt33 is the weapon wd which russianncal army has been luckily deprived,,,,,,,

Khawaja Omar
26-07-2014, 02:13 AM
I m learner here and just shared reality,I know what I m to write,Russian Tt33 is the weapon wd which russianncal army has been luckily deprived,,,,,,,

Ohhh.. Wow... What a comment sir.. Keep it up brother.. Go for american weapons then..

Dr Zakir
26-07-2014, 02:15 AM
Can u please explain why Russian metal is more rust proof, is it due to chemical composition or some special treatment

Khawaja Omar
26-07-2014, 02:20 AM
Can u please explain why Russian metal is more rust proof, is it due to chemical composition or some special treatment

I suppose the grade of metal used by russians is of high quality. This must be the reason.

Legion-Lad
26-07-2014, 03:52 AM
Accuracy wise Russian TT can hit a matches stick from 10-15 ft quite easily, now try it with others & see if there is some difference.
Well this may sound a bit weird coz we know this isnt an authentic or technical way at all to check out a handgun accuracy but it do require a handgun accuracy which is assured by the quality of recoil spring,guide rod & barrel. And yeah Omar is right chrome lined barrel do effects the accuracy, & the trigger pull which do play a vital role in a shot-to-shot variation because there is no creep in the pull of TT whose trigger is better ensuring better accuracy.

Khawaja Omar
26-07-2014, 04:24 AM
Accuracy wise Russian TT can hit a matches stick from 10-15 ft quite easily, now try it with others & see if there is some difference.
Well this may sound a bit weird coz we know this isnt an authentic or technical way at all to check out a handgun accuracy but it do require a handgun accuracy which is assured by the quality of recoil spring,guide rod & barrel. And yeah Omar is right chrome lined barrel do effects the accuracy, & the trigger pull which do play a vital role in a shot-to-shot variation because there is no creep in the pull of TT whose trigger is better ensuring better accuracy.

Agreed brother.. Some pistols have different point on aim. So you have to check particular pistols point of aim and set your aim according to that.

Fudgepacker
26-07-2014, 05:51 AM
And yes definitely russian metal is far superior than chinese norinco and others. Maybe you know this or not but chinese metal catches rust very easily.. U keep chinese metal for some days in open while a after rainy type season and you will notice that i will have spottings of rust. Whereas Russian metal never catches rust. Same is the case with russian-afghan war era rifles that came with russia. Chinese norinco clone of that rifle catches rust easily but russian metallurgy of high grade metal standard... So ita a 110% damn sure and definite reality that russian metal is far better than chinese...

Ahen ahem... Senior members.... Btw where have you found me of not being polite????? Brother i'll surely object ur "senior member" thing here.. It is knowledge which makes and decides wether one or senior or junior.. No offence brother but if you only judge anyone's seniority and knowledge level on the basis of their amount of posts here, i would definitely disagree with you. If a person has joined pak guns recently and does not have 10,000 posts and haven't increased his posts by thank you, welcome, congrats bro, nice purchase type comments and posts, that does not mean he is not knowledgeable.. I think i have made my self very clear.
Lets keep separate knowledge, seniority, and respect. I agree with you, and theres no arguing the fact that a high post count has no correlation with knowledge. But in such a tight knit group (family) as Pakguns, guys who have high post counts usually have been around since the beginning, so you can say they are the foundation of this forum, they are seniors in that regard and thus they deserve respect in that way. I'm a member at a lot of other forums as well, where a lack of restraint in all aspects was the norm. It took me a while to get used to it, but now having experienced it I can tell you with certainty that the order dictated by the Pakguns hierarchy is a good thing. It maintains the peace by keeping people in line without ostracizing others, and ensures that content is appropriate and respectful. Now I don't think you were so much as impolite, but with all due respect, to make such sweeping generalizations and broad blanket statements as you have, is just plain ignorant, and it rubs people the wrong way. How it came across is almost like someone saying, I once had Balushahi in Lahore and I ate a cheeseburger in New York, therefore all American food has cheese in it and Pakistani food is definitely sweeter than American food.



@ Khawaja Omar,

Bro, Isn't you, who is declaring a weapon superior over other without technical ground?

How come a TT-33 which made a half a century ago is superior to other TT made recently? Won't you account for advances in metallurgy in past half century?

We now have types of steel which are lightweight but stronger than steel we used to have half a century ago.

My question is very simple; do you have any technical date / bases on which you are rating TT-33 superior over other TTs.
I also have the same question as Leon bro...
Can you tell us what is this "Chinese steel" you speak of? Are you referring to 30Cr2Ni2Mo, or 50CrMo, or W18Cr4V, or 2G200-400, or X20Cr13, 16MnCr, or one of the other 130 different grades of Chinese steel? Secondly, all steels can rust under the right (or wrong) conditions, even stainless steel, so can you tell us which one of the over 100 different grades of Russian steel does not, as you so claim?

Btw, I'm not vein enough to think I would be able to capitalize on any inherent accuracy advantage a non chromed lined barrel may possess, so for me a chromed barrel is the better choice any day of the week, for it's benefits I am able to reap, in being easier to clean and more durable.

Fudgepacker
26-07-2014, 06:24 AM
Now I am really confuse becoz on one hand High_Rooler, Leon & hmd brothers are in favour of Zastava M57, while on the other hand s.jawad, HeartTTAK, sajjadjutt & Crony brothers are in favour of Chinese TT.

PS: I don't know much about TTs.. I have one older 636 Chinese model, which I bought in 1995.. it has 11 logo in a circle on top of the slide & serial # starting from 310.. I shot it many times & am quite satisfied with its performance.. not a single issue even with JHP.
Sorry to tell you this bro, but I suspect you may not have a genuine Chinese gun. The "Circle 11" mark was the designation for a Polish armory, so to find it on anything other than Polish guns, magazines, or other components is an immediate red flag.

Khawaja Omar
26-07-2014, 10:51 PM
Lets keep separate knowledge, seniority, and respect. I agree with you, and theres no arguing the fact that a high post count has no correlation with knowledge. But in such a tight knit group (family) as Pakguns, guys who have high post counts usually have been around since the beginning, so you can say they are the foundation of this forum, they are seniors in that regard and thus they deserve respect in that way. I'm a member at a lot of other forums as well, where a lack of restraint in all aspects was the norm. It took me a while to get used to it, but now having experienced it I can tell you with certainty that the order dictated by the Pakguns hierarchy is a good thing. It maintains the peace by keeping people in line without ostracizing others, and ensures that content is appropriate and respectful. Now I don't think you were so much as impolite, but with all due respect, to make such sweeping generalizations and broad blanket statements as you have, is just plain ignorant, and it rubs people the wrong way. How it came across is almost like someone saying, I once had Balushahi in Lahore and I ate a cheeseburger in New York, therefore all American food has cheese in it and Pakistani food is definitely sweeter than American food.



I also have the same question as Leon bro...
Can you tell us what is this "Chinese steel" you speak of? Are you referring to 30Cr2Ni2Mo, or 50CrMo, or W18Cr4V, or 2G200-400, or X20Cr13, 16MnCr, or one of the other 130 different grades of Chinese steel? Secondly, all steels can rust under the right (or wrong) conditions, even stainless steel, so can you tell us which one of the over 100 different grades of Russian steel does not, as you so claim?

Btw, I'm not vein enough to think I would be able to capitalize on any inherent accuracy advantage a non chromed lined barrel may possess, so for me a chromed barrel is the better choice any day of the week, for it's benefits I am able to reap, in being easier to clean and more durable.

Brother i agree with what you have written. And thanks for sharing your experience. As u have already stated i was not un polite .. Didnt say anything to hurt anyone but that one member criticised without any reason just to dominate and impose that i am a new member so i cant have knowledge. And yes you can say that the statement i have was a broad blanket type about the quality of russian and chinese steel quality. Sir i am not a metallurgical expert actually. The statement i have with based on my personal experience and what we have been observing since years. Here in Lahore and peshawar if you talk to old gun smiths they also say that russian metal is more durable than chinese as it is more corrosion resistant. Now the thing is that no one has preformed a laboratory test on both the metals to see which grade of metal they are using but I can tell you that from my personal experience. Like it is a fact that non chrome barrel tends to be more accurate than a chrome lined barrel due to the fact that chrome reduces friction between bullet jacket and groves of the barrel. But as you have written that u would go for a chromed barrel any day of the week so i would say its a personal preference. I like original russian TT compared to chinese clone or any other clone of it. I have my own reasons for it. So i think that is totally fair. Now here are people who go and buy a 4k desi darra made tt clone of poor quality and keep on adoring it and keep on telling stories about its specialities reliability. Brother the thing is that me and you cannot convince them that its a poor quality gun and not worth keeping for self defence. So i think its more about personal preferences here.

Aquarius
26-07-2014, 10:54 PM
Sorry to tell you this bro, but I suspect you may not have a genuine Chinese gun. The "Circle 11" mark was the designation for a Polish armory, so to find it on anything other than Polish guns, magazines, or other components is an immediate red flag.
Really !!! because I know nothing about TTs.. its written "Made in China by Norinco" on the left side of slide.. I showed it to few reliable dealers and they all told me its a genuine Chinese piece.. will confirm it again.

BTW: I have fired many rounds through it till now & it functions very well.

Dr Zakir
27-07-2014, 12:00 AM
Lets keep separate knowledge, seniority, and respect. I agree with you, and theres no arguing the fact that a high post count has no correlation with knowledge. But in such a tight knit group (family) as Pakguns, guys who have high post counts usually have been around since the beginning, so you can say they are the foundation of this forum, they are seniors in that regard and thus they deserve respect in that way. I'm a member at a lot of other forums as well, where a lack of restraint in all aspects was the norm. It took me a while to get used to it, but now having experienced it I can tell you with certainty that the order dictated by the Pakguns hierarchy is a good thing. It maintains the peace by keeping people in line without ostracizing others, and ensures that content is appropriate and respectful. Now I don't think you were so much as impolite, but with all due respect, to make such sweeping generalizations and broad blanket statements as you have, is just plain ignorant, and it rubs people the wrong way. How it came across is almost like someone saying, I once had Balushahi in Lahore and I ate a cheeseburger in New York, therefore all American food has cheese in it and Pakistani food is definitely sweeter than American food.



I also have the same question as Leon bro...
Can you tell us what is this "Chinese steel" you speak of? Are you referring to 30Cr2Ni2Mo, or 50CrMo, or W18Cr4V, or 2G200-400, or X20Cr13, 16MnCr, or one of the other 130 different grades of Chinese steel? Secondly, all steels can rust under the right (or wrong) conditions, even stainless steel, so can you tell us which one of the over 100 different grades of Russian steel does not, as you so claim?

Btw, I'm not vein enough to think I would be able to capitalize on any inherent accuracy advantage a non chromed lined barrel may possess, so for me a chromed barrel is the better choice any day of the week, for it's benefits I am able to reap, in being easier to clean and more durable.
that was my question too. Whether we are talking chemically or just expierence.

Fudgepacker
27-07-2014, 12:29 AM
Really !!! because I know nothing about TTs.. its written "Made in China by Norinco" on the left side of slide.. I showed it to few reliable dealers and they all told me its a genuine Chinese piece.. will confirm it again.

BTW: I have fired many rounds through it till now & it functions very well.
Thats just from what I know about the "Circle 11" mark. The photo of post #144 depicts that as well, but my knowledge of TT's is far from extensive.

Can anyone clarify?

Khawaja Omar
28-07-2014, 12:03 AM
Thats just from what I know about the "Circle 11" mark. The photo of post #144 depicts that as well, but my knowledge of TT's is far from extensive.

Can anyone clarify?

11 in a circle is a polish marking found in polish weapons. Except norinco there are other local manufacturers in china who make such pistols of very low quality than norinco and stamp these unusual markings on them without having any knowledge of them. On some tokarev pistols from china there is a writing of 30 cal mauser. There is a norm in lahore dealers that they can also get your own name written of chinese TT. What actually happens it that some dealers here give order to local manufacturers in china rather than norinco. So poor quality and these unusual writing and stamps are not a big issue on these china TT clones which are not made by norinco. I am posting a link here. It further clarifies what i am talking about.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?157014-Found-an-Odd-Norinco-Tok

GUNFREAK
28-07-2014, 09:03 PM
I own both. As a regular shooter, forget everything, IMO Russian anyday over Chinese 66 I bought eight years ago. Funny thing is yet I trust and have had the Chinese 66 by my bedside for the eight years, never any issues with over 1000 rounds fired.
Yet, the Russian is far more accurate at 15m and the hammer and slide and feel is much better and big difference then 66 anyday. That's my experience.

Regards

GUNFREAK
28-07-2014, 09:10 PM
http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t511/gunfreak2/A6090111-ABC7-427E-859B-2C0AB40C0963-7869-00000A41631EBE62_zpsfaf757c8.jpg (http://s1063.photobucket.com/user/gunfreak2/media/A6090111-ABC7-427E-859B-2C0AB40C0963-7869-00000A41631EBE62_zpsfaf757c8.jpg.html)

Khawaja Omar
29-07-2014, 12:11 AM
I own both. As a regular shooter, forget everything, IMO Russian anyday over Chinese 66 I bought eight years ago. Funny thing is yet I trust and have had the Chinese 66 by my bedside for the eight years, never any issues with over 1000 rounds fired.
Yet, the Russian is far more accurate at 15m and the hammer and slide and feel is much better and big difference then 66 anyday. That's my experience.

Regards

@GUNFREAK

Its really pleasing for me to see this comment of yours. This is exactly what i was trying to portray in my previous comments on this thread. But unforfunately some members tried to criticise saying that im a unpolite and some found it very broad blanket type claim to say that russian TT is better than chinese. One also asked me technical reasons of it and going further deep and expressing vast knowledge, raised a question about chemical treatment on metal and grades of metal used. You can see brother i wrote this thing multiple times that in every means russian is better than chinese. Wether its accuracy or built quality or parts fit, finish and feel. What i believe is that these type of questions and criticism is just to discourage and impose on one that he's new on pakguns with few posts thus cannot make such a knowledgable comment based on experience and cannot claim a such things which majority here is not in favour of.

Brother i also own an old production Type 54 with 66 in triangle (norinco 66 plant marking) pistol since many years. Its too been on my bedside since years now and it works flawlessly.. No doubt on that but still I prefer an original russian TT due to its quality, accuracy and great feel. I 100% agree with you about the feel of russian TT.. Its a really solid feel when you rack its slide and fire it. Every part of russian TT has that sturdy feel.. Its parts are more finished and rounded unlike new chinese and serbian rough metal pistols. I dont know why people have a problem in understanding this and keep on arguing that chinese and serbian are latest production with latest production techniques so they are better than russian. I even wrote that for now u just forget about russian TT. Talk about old chinese and new chinese pistols. There is a drastic difference in quality in old and new chinese pistols made by norinco. Old pistols are of very high finsh and quality than new production by china.

Anyways brother keep on posting.. I will shortly post the pics of my old production norinco type 54 pistol.

Best wishes and kind regards to you.

Khawaja Omar
29-07-2014, 01:37 AM
I own both. As a regular shooter, forget everything, IMO Russian anyday over Chinese 66 I bought eight years ago. Funny thing is yet I trust and have had the Chinese 66 by my bedside for the eight years, never any issues with over 1000 rounds fired.
Yet, the Russian is far more accurate at 15m and the hammer and slide and feel is much better and big difference then 66 anyday. That's my experience.

Regards

This is my norinco type 54 old production with 66 in triangle marking

GUNFREAK
29-07-2014, 01:37 AM
Relax brother -Khawaja-Omar. We all are a small family here and no one is doubting your intelligence and knowledge. We all have our own opinion and experiences and share with all. All is well :)

Regards

GUNFREAK
29-07-2014, 01:40 AM
Just saw the pics. Very nice TT. It has a safety ?

Regards

Khawaja Omar
29-07-2014, 02:23 AM
Just saw the pics. Very nice TT. It has a safety ?

Regards

Yes brother it has a safety. Norinco produced some pistols with safety many years ago.

sadatpk
29-07-2014, 03:31 AM
here is mine humble TT khawaja omar sb

FA226
29-07-2014, 03:45 AM
here is mine humble TT khawaja omar sb

its beautiful,i like the grip.

Khawaja Omar
29-07-2014, 03:52 AM
here is mine humble TT khawaja omar sb

Nice brother.. This is norinco 213 style pistol.. Its grip is really good. It also has a safety i suppose.. Isnt it?

Khawaja Omar
29-07-2014, 03:54 AM
I also like its slide release. It has an extended slide release for quick reloading action.

Khawaja Omar
29-07-2014, 03:59 AM
I love all kind of TT style pistols. I have been attracted to these slim beauties since my childhood. There is something really great about the slimline design of tokarev style pistols.

Khawaja Omar
29-07-2014, 04:01 AM
I own a glock 19, a CZ tactical sports, and have owned many pistols but my love for tokarev style pistols stills remain intact.

Khawaja Omar
29-07-2014, 04:07 AM
I know many people who have an exotic collection of expensive handguns but when it come to tokarev style pistols or someone talks about it, they consider it a cheap or poor man's handgun. Thats why some people dont like to carry it or keep it coz they think its cheap and obsolete. I totally disagree with this kind of mentality. I just know that tokarev style pistols are great handguns with great qualities like great high velocity of 7.62*25 and its slim beautiful robust design.

FA226
29-07-2014, 04:16 AM
I know many people who have an exotic collection of expensive handguns but when it come to tokarev style pistols or someone talks about it, they consider it a cheap or poor man's handgun. Thats why some people dont like to carry it or keep it coz they think its cheap and obsolete. I totally disagree with this kind of mentality. I just know that tokarev style pistols are great handguns with great qualities like great high velocity of 7.62*25 and its slim beautiful robust design.
bro i have had Chinese TT for almost 15 years i let it go because i like hight capacity hand guns.i carried it for a year but i use to carry four extra mags with it.

shahroze
29-07-2014, 04:21 AM
In the west they have a good repute, are not looked down upon and are considered poor man's desert eagle.They use it for range gun and some even consider it for camping when they lack a revolver,I personally love the round and pistol you simply can't go wrong with one

Khawaja Omar
29-07-2014, 04:29 AM
bro i have had Chinese TT for almost 15 years i let it go because i like hight capacity hand guns.i carried it for a year but i use to carry four extra mags with it.

Yes brother i agree with you.. This is one thing about capacity.. I have 12 mags for my type 54 pistol. Sir actually same about me.. I like to have much extra ammo and many loaded mags with my any gun. It gives more inner satisfaction and feel of security actually. This is a usual norm in your culture.. But once i was reading an article about revolvers. In the article some famous marksman quoted a saying that if 6 bullets are not enough in a gunfight for a shooter then he has nothing to do with marksmanship. By quoting this he meant that a good marksman should do all with 6 bullets. Btw this was about a revolver or six guns geek... Not for us.. Lolxx..

Khawaja Omar
29-07-2014, 04:30 AM
In the west they have a good repute, are not looked down upon and are considered poor man's desert eagle.They use it for range gun and some even consider it for camping when they lack a revolver,I personally love the round and pistol you simply can't go wrong with one

True that brother..

UMAR BUTT
29-07-2014, 04:31 AM
Eid Mubarak Every One. AOA every one.. Nice to see interesting discussion on Russian TT topic. I have been using Russian TT, Zastava m57 and Norince type 54 since years now. All these are good pistolss in terms of reliability but I completely agree with Sir Khawaja Omar and Sir GUNFREAK about the quality of Russian TT. I have been using it for years. Its a great masterpiece by Russia. From plenty of my experience in precision competition shooting I always find russian TT more accurate than my zastava and type 54. Also finish wise Russian TT is better than other two of the pistols. I am posting several pictures of my TT pistols for you to see the quality of them and have a visual idea about the quality of my Russian TT compared to other two.... :-)

UMAR BUTT
29-07-2014, 04:40 AM
. 30 cal TT

UMAR BUTT
29-07-2014, 04:45 AM
some more pic

FA226
29-07-2014, 04:53 AM
Yes brother i agree with you.. This is one thing about capacity.. I have 12 mags for my type 54 pistol. Sir actually same about me.. I like to have much extra ammo and many loaded mags with my any gun. It gives more inner satisfaction and feel of security actually. This is a usual norm in your culture.. But once i was reading an article about revolvers. In the article some famous marksman quoted a saying that if 6 bullets are not enough in a gunfight for a shooter then he has nothing to do with marksmanship. By quoting this he meant that a good marksman should do all with 6 bullets. Btw this was about a revolver or six guns geek... Not for us.. Lolxx..
that's why i don't have a revolver bro.lol

FA226
29-07-2014, 04:56 AM
. 30 cal TT
Nice TT collection Umar bro.

Fudgepacker
29-07-2014, 05:53 AM
Very nice indeed!

Khawaja Omar
29-07-2014, 05:55 AM
that's why i don't have revolver a bro.lol

Hahaha.. Right brother..

Khawaja Omar
29-07-2014, 06:09 AM
Eid Mubarak Every One. AOA every one.. Nice to see interesting discussion on Russian TT topic. I have been using Russian TT, Zastava m57 and Norince type 54 since years now. All these are good pistolss in terms of reliability but I completely agree with Sir Khawaja Omar and Sir GUNFREAK about the quality of Russian TT. I have been using it for years. Its a great masterpiece by Russia. From plenty of my experience in precision competition shooting I always find russian TT more accurate than my zastava and type 54. Also finish wise Russian TT is better than other two of the pistols. I am posting several pictures of my TT pistols for you to see the quality of them and have a visual idea about the quality of my Russian TT compared to other two.... :-)

Thanks for the pleasing comment brother. And thanks alot for the agreeing and appreciating post. Your real life experience as a Pakistan National Champion in precision shooting is very helpful for us as u know far better than us about precision and accuracy. Sir you are one of the founding member of Lahore Rifle Club so your experience means alot to us.

As you have also agreed that Russian TT is more accurate and far more superior in built quality than chinese and serbian, so i think there should be no more confusion regarding this. Plus top most thing is you own all 3 pistols (original Russian TT, serbian zastava m57 and norinco type54) at the same time since many years so your words are really respectful in that matter.
Thanks alot for the fantastic pics of your TT pistols. Indeed they are very helpful in visual comparison.

Khawaja Omar
29-07-2014, 06:18 AM
Very nice indeed!

True.. Very nice pics and comments about Russian TT from Umar Butt brother.

UMAR BUTT
29-07-2014, 06:40 AM
Thank you all and here is the hummmm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlpcnuMLUX8

FA226
29-07-2014, 04:28 PM
Thank you all and here is the hummmm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlpcnuMLUX8
Nice one bro.

Fudgepacker
29-07-2014, 10:51 PM
Nice! What were those hanging targets you were shooting at?

Khawaja Omar
29-07-2014, 11:40 PM
Nice! What were those hanging targets you were shooting at?

They are (thooties) made of clay. People here in Pakistan eat (firni) in it. Firni is a sweet dessert like kheer.

sadatpk
29-07-2014, 11:55 PM
umar bhi you rock,ImHO you are the 1st one in Pakistan who introduced the real perspectives of TT,

Khawaja Omar
30-07-2014, 12:12 AM
umar bhi you rock,ImHO you are the 1st one in Pakistan who introduced the real perspectives of TT,

Yes and I am the second one.. Hahahaha..

sadatpk
30-07-2014, 12:50 AM
Yes and I am the second one.. Hahahaha..
U r welcome khawaja sb,why u prefer 2nd ,we want to see u at the top,may u be the 1st as well,

Khawaja Omar
30-07-2014, 01:01 AM
U r welcome khawaja sb,why u prefer 2nd ,we want to see u at the top,may u be the 1st as well,

Thank you janab..

Fudgepacker
30-07-2014, 02:28 AM
They are (thooties) made of clay. People here in Pakistan eat (firni) in it. Firni is a sweet dessert like kheer.
I like how they turn to dust when hit, instead of just breaking off in pieces like a clay bird.

Khawaja Omar
30-07-2014, 02:34 AM
I like how they turn to dust when hit, instead of just breaking off in pieces like a clay bird.

No Sir actually these thooties break into small pieces unlike skeet clays when they are shot with shotgun and vanishes like powder. But its still very enjoyable when you shoot these thooties and some part of it breaks off and a small piece of it remains hanging and then u aim that small piece. Its fun.

Fudgepacker
30-07-2014, 03:36 AM
No Sir actually these thooties break into small pieces unlike skeet clays when they are shot with shotgun and vanishes like powder. But its still very enjoyable when you shoot these thooties and some part of it breaks off and a small piece of it remains hanging and then u aim that small piece. Its fun.
Yeah but to turn a bird into powder with a shotgun you have to have a good choke, good ammo, and hit it dead on in the middle of your pattern. When shooting my Beretta A300 with a Briley's ported LM choke (let me know if you guys wanna see, it's an awesome gun), I'm a decent trap shooter (88%), but I can't remember the last time I turned a bird into powder :)
Anyways, in Umar bro's vid, he was smoking those thooties, which I think makes them a really fun target!

FA226
30-07-2014, 03:41 AM
No Sir actually these thooties break into small pieces unlike skeet clays when they are shot with shotgun and vanishes like powder. But its still very enjoyable when you shoot these thooties and some part of it breaks off and a small piece of it remains hanging and then u aim that small piece. Its fun.
bro i use to shoot bricks with .30 they break in to pieces,its fun.

Khawaja Omar
30-07-2014, 03:42 AM
Yeah but to turn a bird into powder with a shotgun you have to have a good choke, good ammo, and hit it dead on in the middle of your pattern. When shooting my Beretta A300 with a Briley's ported LM choke, I'm a decent trap shooter (88%), but I can't remember the last time I turned a bird into powder :)
Anyways, in Umar bro's vid, he was smoking the thooties, which I thought was really cool!

Yes sometimes with a handgun too the thooty breaks into powder depending on the hit.

Khawaja Omar
30-07-2014, 03:45 AM
bro i use to shoot bricks with .30 they break in to pieces,its fun.

Me too brother. Once i shot bricks with my 5.45 rifle and believe me the brick turned into red powder on the hit. With 9 mm brick breaks into two or three pieces.

FA226
30-07-2014, 03:47 AM
Yes sometimes with a handgun too the thooty breaks into powder depending on the hit.
bro i never though of this idea to shooting thooty before but will try it, its fun.normally i like to shoot bricks,empty cans of soft drinks, plastic bottles filled with water .

Fudgepacker
30-07-2014, 03:50 AM
Thanks for the pleasing comment brother. And thanks alot for the agreeing and appreciating post...
As you have also agreed that Russian TT is more accurate and far more superior in built quality than chinese and serbian, so i think there should be no more confusion regarding this...
Umar bro's just stating his opinion, like everyone else. Simply because he's a good shooter doesn't mean his opinion must be right, and everyone now has to agree. Bro, don't worry so much about whether people agree with you, you'll have a much better time here :)

FA226
30-07-2014, 03:51 AM
Me too brother. Once i shot bricks with my 5.45 rifle and believe me the brick turned into red powder on the hit. With 9 mm brick breaks into two or three pieces.
you are right with 9mm it breaks into two or three pieces try with .30 its more fun.i shoot plastic bottles filled with water with 5.56 its fun.

Khawaja Omar
30-07-2014, 05:19 AM
Umar bro's just stating his opinion, like everyone else. Simply because he's a good shooter doesn't mean his opinion must be right, and everyone now has to agree. Bro, don't worry so much about whether people agree with you, you'll have a much better time here :)

Yes Sir you are very much right. Its a right of everyone to keep their opinion according to their preferences. No one can change any one's opinion by imposing what he think is right. But still there are some things that a person self realises from time to time and with experience.

Khawaja Omar
30-07-2014, 05:30 AM
you are right with 9mm it breaks into two or three pieces try with .30 its more fun.i shoot plastic bottles filled with water with 5.56 its fun.

Sir really its a great fun.. Once i did an experiment.. I had bought federal hydrashok ammo for my 9mm pistol. Now hydrashok is the most reputed round in law enforcement agencies of usa and other countries too. I had seen in videos that it makes a mushroom when it expands on impact. What i did was, i filled two 1.5 litre coke bottles with water and closed its caps. Then put them in a row. I sat down on the ground and fired at it. First bottle blasted. And u know what.. It was so amazing that i found expanded mushroom inside the second bottle. I still have those mushrooms of hydra shok. See it deploys all its energy on impact unlike fmj. Otherwise if it would be fmj then it would have crossed 50 bottles with hole in all of them. It was a great experience and fun too.

Khawaja Omar
30-07-2014, 05:40 AM
I also tried same thing with 30 cal pistol.. I bought serbian hollow points for my type 54.. They were not serrated like federal hydrashok and also werent as hollow as hydra shoks. I fired it and it crossed every bottle. Didnt expand and didnt stop in any bottle. 30 cal hollowpoints are hollow points in name only. They only get pressed when hit concrete or something hard. On flesh or body it will have no expansion effect.

FA226
30-07-2014, 06:02 AM
I also tried same thing with 30 cal pistol.. I bought serbian hollow points for my type 54.. They were not serrated like federal hydrashok and also werent as hollow as hydra shoks. I fired it and it crossed every bottle. Didnt expand and didnt stop in any bottle. 30 cal hollowpoints are hollow points in name only. They only get pressed when hit concrete or something hard. On flesh or body it will have no expansion effect.
i don't use hollwpoints allways use fmj because jhp are hard on barrel and sometimes they can give you FTF.