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View Full Version : Different types of TT's (Tokarev) Pistols ?



Glocky
17-03-2009, 03:15 PM
I keep hearing about the different types of TTs in the markets, can some of our members enlighten us with pictures and short descriptions.

Is the Zastava any better than Norinco, i have heard that the Zastava is a Jamomatic with HPs

Balazona
17-03-2009, 04:48 PM
Norinco TT-33 pistol is 8+1 shots and never jamed.Zastava TT-33 pistol is 9+1 shots.i never heard any bad reviews of it.YMMV

Ahmad
17-03-2009, 06:18 PM
These pistols are designed for fmj round so they might jam with jhp. Moreover jhp are hard to find in this chambering

Abbas
17-03-2009, 06:53 PM
These links should answer a few questions about the Tokarev.

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Tokarev_TT-33

http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/tokarev213.htm

Glocky
17-03-2009, 09:09 PM
So its safe to assume that all chinese TTs in the market are the same ? one dealer told me there are some other variants as well, i always thought a TT magazine was a 7 rounder

Mohammad
17-03-2009, 09:19 PM
well abbas as i was going through your links i found out new TT. It is norinco Model-213a chambered in 9mm with 14 rounds magazine capacity......... do you have information about this new breed of norinco TT and what about its availability in pakistan

Glocky
17-03-2009, 09:23 PM
Let me clarify, my question is geared towards the variants available in Pakistan

Balazona
17-03-2009, 09:27 PM
TT-33 pistol variants available in Pakistan r Zastava TT(10 shots),Norinco type 54 and 54-1(with saftey),M20,M213(9mm) and original Russian TTs.and lot of Darra made variants which u have never seen in rest of ur life.

Mohammad
17-03-2009, 09:28 PM
this is also a varient of TT available in 9mm but with a 14 rounds mag capicity is something new and good..............hope it is available here in pakistan

Glocky
17-03-2009, 10:04 PM
does the M20/M231 come with two different calibre barrels ?

Abbas
17-03-2009, 10:08 PM
9mm TT's are rare but I would like to get my hands on one sometime. I also very much like the few TT's that were made in stainless steel finish. Those actually make the TT look beautiful which btw is quite difficult :lol:

Glocky
17-03-2009, 11:56 PM
Chinese Gun + Chinese Ammo = Good combo (i guess)
Serbian Gun + Chinese Ammo = ??

Abbas
18-03-2009, 12:23 AM
Found two pictures of the stainless finish on the web.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii99/AbbasMalik/Norinco_M213_LS.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii99/AbbasMalik/Norinco_M213_RS.jpg

Ahmad
18-03-2009, 12:24 AM
i have a 213 model 9mm TT but it is 7 shot single stack magazine.

Abbas
18-03-2009, 12:33 AM
If someone comes across a Stainless finish TT please let me know as I'm looking for one. Thanks

Naazer
18-03-2009, 08:15 AM
also own a chinese 213 model 9mm TT with a 7 shot magazine. got it from baluchistan arms in 2005 for appox rs 15,000.

crap performance so never use or carry. only difference b/w that and the 30 tt is that the grip is ticket to accomdate the different magazine.

i don't recommend this to anyone though i feel that availability is no issue

Daudpota
18-03-2009, 11:19 AM
Is there a pistol other than a TT in .30 caliber with 15+ capacity magazine?

Naazer
18-03-2009, 11:37 AM
even a TT doesn have a 15 mag capacity-haven ever come across one yet.

nope no other 30 bore pistols in the mkt with a 15 magazine capacity. maybe has a variant in it but not too sure. sometimes the german pistols (lugers) have similar calibers as the ones developed by the russians. even in wwII some seized russian weapons were redesignated and issued to german forces as they could fire the 7.65X22 mm (30) cartridges. but doubt it

Naazer
18-03-2009, 11:40 AM
btw there is a sig model that also fires the .30 cartridge. however it has discontinued production now so would be a collectors item. probably 1500$ plus in international market. though even that has only a 8 shot mag

Kulachi
18-03-2009, 12:32 PM
.30 = 7.62 x 25mm

CZ-52 is a famous handgun using this caliber. I heard that later models were available in double stack magazines. I have an original in parkerized finish. I am not sure if Sa. 24 ever had a semi-automatic version but they have a 32 round magazine. It is now classified as a machine pistol, but some people still have it on old NPB licences. It is a low recoil, mean-looking classic.

You might like to search Ruger website. They had a handgun in .30 caliber, but I fail to recall its name.

Kulachi
18-03-2009, 12:41 PM
Just as a side note, TTs are very easy to conceal, as compared to other similar sized double stacked magazine pistols. Moreover, given widespread availability of their original magazines, it does not matter much whether it is a 7 or 15 shot pistol. You can always keep/carry extras within reach.

Glocky
18-03-2009, 12:52 PM
Have always been fascinated by the 7.62, Just very confusing in deciding which one is the best bet. Any CZ-52 out there in the markets ?

MOLAjat
18-03-2009, 12:53 PM
TT 33 is a master piece. I am using a Chinese one since last 15 years and fired about 2000 rounds without a single problem. The pistol is heavy and strongly build with chicese engraved in slide.
A good weapon but I miss safety. Cannot carry with round in chember

Balazona
18-03-2009, 03:32 PM
7.62x25mm TT-33 pistol is AK-47 of pistol world.its bullet leaves behind a cracking sound same like rifle's bullets.very loud boom.

Connector
18-03-2009, 04:37 PM
7.62x25mm TT-33 pistol is AK-47 of pistol world.its bullet leaves behind a cracking sound same like rifle's bullets.very loud boom.
Its an over statement

Zubair
18-03-2009, 05:01 PM
7.62*25mm is a high velocity + high pressure round. Its more devastating then 9*19mm. But at the same time its high recoil effects its accuracy.The reason it has been abandoned is because it is known to cross through most human targets & hit others as well. A friend of mine ,a doctor & a gun enthusiast, says the worst bullet wounds he has seen were by 7.62*25mm. Anyway I would love to see some Rifle or Carbine in the same.

Kulachi
18-03-2009, 05:14 PM
It is partly right. Actually TT makes a loud "spitting" noise. This is because of three facts:

A. The edges of the muzzle groves are not smooth (common for most old handgun and rifle muzzles). For comparison, consider the Glock's muzzle groves. Hence, Glock (for instance) has a compact, and crisp muzzle blast, while TT has a crack to it.
B: Muzzle velocity for TT is very high, in fact higher than 9 X 19mm for equal barrel lengths.
C: The higher amount of residue burning outside/near the barrel end.

All these factors make the gun louder. In used guns, the grove edges get smooth and hence the bullet is packed tightly. In way too old barrels, the 'spitting' becomes even higher, though.

Kulachi
18-03-2009, 05:18 PM
The reason it has been abandoned is because it is known to cross through most human targets & hit others as well. A friend of mine ,a doctor & a gun enthusiast, says the worst bullet wounds he has seen were by 7.62*25mm.

I am witness to a similar incident when I was a kid. A shot fired from a TT crossed two, rather heavy, men, killing them both, unfortunately.

Balazona
18-03-2009, 05:20 PM
7.62x25mm TT-33 pistol is AK-47 of pistol world.its bullet leaves behind a cracking sound same like rifle's bullets.very loud boom.
Its an over statement
Sir,what is over in this statement.

Handsome_Phantom
18-03-2009, 08:27 PM
never liked TT but alot of people love it. My father had one which he surrendered when nawaz govt asked public to give up thier illegal weapons.It was a gift from his cousin and he also wanted to get rid of it coz he is bit against guns.

Ahmad
18-03-2009, 11:09 PM
my cz 52 after 16 years of use, i perkarized it as DIY

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb176/mrnobody2008/Picture007.jpg

lost the round count now but reliable in all these years.

@kulachi will love to see yours

Daudpota
19-03-2009, 10:19 AM
What is perkerization and what are its benefits. How did u do it? Please enlighten us.

Nabeel
19-03-2009, 11:57 AM
Parkerizing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkerizing

Mohammad
19-03-2009, 08:39 PM
well about TT's bullet lethality, it is more lethal than 9mm. My uncle who is in police told me that 90% of the total people shot with 30 bore had never survived the attack. With 9mm there is alot of chance that you may survive it and they did but most of the 30 bore victims never made it........

Glocky
19-03-2009, 08:49 PM
I look at it a little more pragmatically, its cheap, surplus ammo and availability. Its not my first choice but it does deserve respect for its simiplicity in design, action and ballistics

Ahmad
19-03-2009, 09:01 PM
it deserves more respect as it is the caliber which made autos popular in Pakistan.
cheers

Connector
19-03-2009, 10:37 PM
well about TT's bullet lethality, it is more lethal than 9mm. My uncle who is in police told me that 90% of the total people shot with 30 bore had never survived the attack. With 9mm there is alot of chance that you may survive it and they did but most of the 30 bore victims never made it........
This may be true because of the fact that almost 100% of the criminals use the TT.
Law abiding citizen dont shoot at others.Besides are you guys admiring the penetration
ability of the caliber or the weapon TT?

Daudpota
20-03-2009, 09:32 AM
The caliber is great. Compare 9mm and 30 bore bullet side by side. The cartridge width is almost same. The .30 cartridge is longer than 9mm, meaning there in more gun powder in .30 than in 9mm. The power is further enhanced by the fact that .30 bullet/projectile is smaller than 9mm and is more pointed(aerodynamic). So .30 gets more power to mass (of projectile) ratio than 9mm. The only reason .30 caliber is not liked by many is because TT is terrible in handling/grip, too many substandard fakes and low magazine capacity.

IMHO, the day you get a reliable/dependable .30 pistol with 15+ capacity mag and good grip, it will be the largest selling pistol of all times; globally. Regards.

Mohammad
20-03-2009, 10:58 AM
Well you can do that. One of my friend bought a TT-30. He took it the gunsmith in Darra Adam Khel.What he did was that he made a 14 round double handle grip for the TT and removed the orignal one from the slide and place the new 14 rounds pistol grip.

Mohammad
20-03-2009, 11:02 AM
One more thing. You can also make a TT for yourself from Daudsons Armoury on demand. People have made TT-30 pistols with 14 rounds capacity from daudsons. There quality is unmatched (may be better from chinese itself). They are banging it for many years now and it hasnt jammed. Good electropaint finishing and chrome plated barrels (as they do it in there shotguns). You can order daudsons it you like

Intrepid
20-03-2009, 02:22 PM
Good info about Daudson, buddy. Where you were during my gun hunt days :( ??

Glocky
20-03-2009, 02:38 PM
One more thing. You can also make a TT for yourself from Daudsons Armoury on demand. People have made TT-30 pistols with 14 rounds capacity from daudsons. There quality is unmatched (may be better from chinese itself). They are banging it for many years now and it hasnt jammed. Good electropaint finishing and chrome plated barrels (as they do it in there shotguns). You can order daudsons it you like


i did'nt know that, will check their website thanks

Zubair
20-03-2009, 02:43 PM
One more thing. You can also make a TT for yourself from Daudsons Armoury on demand. People have made TT-30 pistols with 14 rounds capacity from daudsons. There quality is unmatched (may be better from chinese itself). They are banging it for many years now and it hasnt jammed. Good electropaint finishing and chrome plated barrels (as they do it in there shotguns). You can order daudsons it you like
Any contact in DAUDSONS with whom one can talk on this. And any price idea for this 14 shot

Daudpota
20-03-2009, 05:28 PM
That was my point, a good .30 pistol, but not TT! TT design and shape is terrible. It is the ugliest pistol I have seen and is the worst in handling. I would go for it if they make a, say, beretta 92fs in .30 caliber. Now that is what I will call an all time winner!
I wonder if daudsons will do it.

Daudpota
20-03-2009, 05:30 PM
I also recall a makarow with wooden stock on this forum. A formidable looking weapon. Would love to see its clone in Pakistan in .30 bore, minus the stock.

Ahmad
20-03-2009, 07:00 PM
@ daudpota making a double stack auto is difficult as its overall length is 1.3 inch which is more than OAL of 45 acp. so any auto with a double stack clip will be wide enough that it will suit to very large hands & trigger reach will also be a problem. now TT has a modular firing mechanism which is located above the magazine so its grip is not that much wide, most auto use the space behind the magazine for hammer spring & hammer strut on which hammer pivots or work so a double stack auto with a DA/SA will need gigantic hands to fire it comfortably.
There are copies of Beretta which were made in 30 but they did not last much as the there were many locking block breakage.
Cheers

Syed
20-03-2009, 08:18 PM
@Mohammad i personally visit to daud arms factory with a reference and meet there owner a month ago
he told me that they only making shotgun which cost about 16k and nothing else. they r making shells of bombs for POF and alot of parts for AWC

Mohammad
20-03-2009, 08:39 PM
well my friend made a TT from daudsons. His father had a contact with the daudsons owner. Another friend of mine also made a 14 rounds TT from them. If you have some contacts with there seniors, they will make one for you

Balazona
20-03-2009, 08:41 PM
How much they charge for such TT-33 pistol.

Glocky
21-03-2009, 12:15 PM
Which is better a chinese TT or czech Zastava ? anyone ?

Balazona
21-03-2009, 12:18 PM
Zastava TT-33 feels much better in hands than Chinese TT.bcoz Zastava's grip is longer than Chinese one.

Ilyas
16-05-2009, 01:51 AM
.30 = 7.62 x 25mm

CZ-52 is a famous handgun using this caliber. I heard that later models were available in double stack magazines. I have an original in parkerized finish. I am not sure if Sa. 24 ever had a semi-automatic version but they have a 32 round magazine. It is now classified as a machine pistol, but some people still have it on old NPB licences. It is a low recoil, mean-looking classic.

Hello Kulachi... Hope you are fine. Well if you are talking about this, I think the one chambered for .30 is called Sa.26
and the double stack magazine has a capacity of 30 rounds. And although it's not a semi-auto, but single shots can
be fired with it quite easily.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/laacho/1.jpg

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/laacho/2.jpg

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/laacho/3.jpg

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/laacho/4.jpg

HP77B
16-05-2009, 01:28 PM
winamax .30 chinese too good