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View Full Version : Spe Clalley English Make ? AM Ibrahim Ji & Sons



Crazy Shooter
27-08-2010, 04:51 AM
I dnt have the pics at the moment with me but I have a double barrel shotgun 32 inch barrel my family own this gun for the last 90 years almost , on the right barrel its written Spe Clalley and on the left barrel its written English Make between them its written AM Ibrahim Ji & Sons Rawalpindi, Peshawar, Calcutta I want to know the history of this shotgun its hammer gun with beautiful engraving if anyone among us know the origin and history of this company Spe Clalley ,

Dr Hanif Malik
27-08-2010, 10:25 AM
I dnt have the pics at the moment with me but I have a double barrel shotgun 32 inch barrel my family own this gun for the last 90 years almost , on the right barrel its written Spe Clalley and on the left barrel its written English Make between them its written AM Ibrahim Ji & Sons Rawalpindi, Peshawar, Calcutta I want to know the history of this shotgun its hammer gun with beautiful engraving if anyone among us know the origin and history of this company Spe Clalley ,
this is antique gun please save it for more years :|

Shooterz
27-08-2010, 11:23 AM
good

Silent killerr
27-08-2010, 06:19 PM
Plz upload some pictures

Apalo
27-08-2010, 07:20 PM
Plz upload some pictures
yes, so we may have a better idea of th gun

Crazy Shooter
28-08-2010, 03:11 AM
I'll upload pics soon gun is in village I just wanted to know if anyone here knows about this company ? Spe Clalley ?

PUNJTANI5
30-08-2010, 10:29 AM
plz note the word english make

this gun is not made in england
but i think in darra

plus u can always visit the gunshop 4 more information

even now shot guns with exposed hammers are called english shotguns

although this gun is an old antique plz keep it safely

sl.qureshi
31-08-2010, 01:31 PM
Post the pics of gun, specially clear pics of proof marks. These are small stamping underside the barrels. Knowing proof marks can help ascertaining the country of manufacture. The name looks like a french or belgian company.

In pre-partition days, many local arms dealers get the guns manufactured on order by the English and other European makers and get their shop name stamped on these guns. For example, Illahi Bukhsh & Co, Walterlock & Co, Abdulally Mosabhai, etc.

MianTaimur
31-08-2010, 10:43 PM
@crazy shooter

Though I am not an expert on antiques, but I am intreaged to see the subject gun. Please do add pictures, So markings can be observed
Btw are you sure the name is Spe Clalley as you mentioned or does the engraving read as " Specially " .
Makes sence : Specially (left barell) ........AM Ibrahim Ji & Sons Rawalpindi, Peshawar, Calcutta (centre) English Make (right barell).
Just a hunch, no offence :)

Rasal.Saleh
31-08-2010, 11:33 PM
Mian Sb, Door Ki Sochi Hai, It is kinda possible.
Having seen so many Darra Made weapons and the things they manage to misspell on them it is kinda possible.

Regards

P.S I hope you dont take any offence

Crazy Shooter
01-09-2010, 04:15 AM
Dear Brothers this gun was bought by my late grandfather who was in police in his diary he wrote bought Spe Clalley shotgun price paid was 625 RS on 21st may 1919 the name of man from which he bough this gun was some Royal Army Officer and his name was Kooper something as far as the writing on shotgun referring to AM Ibrahim Ji & Sons maybe shotgun experts here know that that time no one was allowed to import shotguns only few companies were allowed to keep the record before the shipment on the barrel of gun manufacturer used to write the name of company which is importing the guns because it was the legal need or British govt there are old shotgun and nothing like that was written that shotguns were most probably sold by those English people who brought their guns with them for hunting or self defence but any company importing shotguns was legally bound to write the name to cut the long story short AM Ibrahim ji was the importer the gun is no doubt made in england I have lived my life with shotguns and this was the first shotgun I fired :) what I wanted to know was the history of this company not the origin because that is England for sure .

PUNJTANI5
01-09-2010, 11:12 AM
dear crazy shooter bhaiyya

please donot mind

this gun is a derra made gun
your grand pa was mugged by the "gora saab"
at present the gun costs a couple of thousands
although the emotional value must be great

there is no such company as to my knowledge
spe clalley
but when u google they even say (specially)

if u have any doubts visit am ibrahim jee & sons in saddar rawalpindi for more info
in pre partition days it was mandatory 4 gun dealers to have their names written on guns

i hope u understand

Crazy Shooter
02-09-2010, 01:42 AM
dear crazy shooter bhaiyya

please donot mind

this gun is a derra made gun
your grand pa was mugged by the "gora saab"
at present the gun costs a couple of thousands
although the emotional value must be great

there is no such company as to my knowledge
spe clalley
but when u google they even say (specially)

if u have any doubts visit am ibrahim jee & sons in saddar rawalpindi for more info
in pre partition days it was mandatory 4 gun dealers to have their names written on guns

i hope u understand

Dear brother there is nothing to mind when someone has not the knowledge of above mentioned gun I have the certificate of AM Ibrahim Ji & Sons the the gun was imported to India in 1913 from england I have also the sticker of the box of my gun which is almost 100 years old now we can clearly see the logo Spe Clallay with a man Hunting with english pointers the engraving on gun is out class even a man who has very little knowledge about shotguns can tell you that the above mentioned gun is english yes I know Spe Clallay was never a famous company I have also searched on net but just imagine a company manufacturing just a few guns each year and all are hand made company stopped manufacturing guns almost 80 years ago how will you be able to find any information about such an antique gun on net ? one more thing the gun case which is made of wood and leather has the same number on gun though its not in a good condition but the number is punched inside the gun case when you open it on the back one can clearly see I'll shortly upload the pics as am going to village in few days for eid gun is there its been 90 years we have this gun and the condition is 90% can you imagine a desi gun fully engraved after 90 years it will be the same ? I own a H&H royal and I can tell you that the work done on my Spe Clallay is much better thn its on H&H, you talked about the worth of gun not more thn few thousands ? I have so far rejected the 3 offers of few hundred thousand I can give my H&H but not this gun this gun sure has a history the above mentioned gun has been in extensive use and served 3 generations I am a lil reserve to use this gun as I know its not something I'll get again do you expect a 100 years old darra made gun with such a beautiful engraving serving 3 generations ? dont mind brother but it sounds a lil weird to someone who has the knowledge of shotguns, one more thing which is not something to prove to someone who thinks about the origin of this shotgun but for help to understand those that that man from which this gun was bought had this gun on his own license and was the senior govt official of british govt why would a senior british officer will get a custom made gun from darra ? and the skills of darra people were not on the peak like we see days its was impossible to produce a clone of some english shotgun with such a master piece of engraving

Jillanik
02-09-2010, 10:06 AM
I agree with Crazy Shooter. Many antique Webley & Scott revolvers have similar type of wordings engraved on them.

Skeeter60
02-09-2010, 01:06 PM
Kindly post pictures of the gun and the barrels removed so that tha proof marks on the flts can be seen and the engraving should be clearly visible so that this argument can be concluded.
English guns come in literally hundreds of names and I don't think we should be surprised if a name un heard by us crops up.

Crazy Shooter
02-09-2010, 08:03 PM
Kindly post pictures of the gun and the barrels removed so that tha proof marks on the flts can be seen and the engraving should be clearly visible so that this argument can be concluded.
English guns come in literally hundreds of names and I don't think we should be surprised if a name un heard by us crops up.

Dear Brother Skeeter I'll shortly upload the pics I am not in my village these days gun is in village I'll upload pics as soon as I get there most probably in eid days

Arslan_tareen
03-09-2010, 08:21 AM
Crazy shooter bro dont be vary just because of name is not available now , gun making in England was a every street work in golden day , there were 100s if not 1000s of prestige Gun makers who went bust with out ever getting there name written in history books , many big names also use to get the guns made by these small but highly professional gun makers ,and some time only the name of the gun maker was left on the shot gun for different reasons . as you said the gun is external hammer this most probably mean the gun was made some time in mid or late 1800s by some private gun maker whose name got lost in the history but work still remains . though i must agree nothing can be said with out pictures .
as you say engraving on the gun is fantastic , this seriously puts in doubt the Darra made theory as arms manufacturing in dara started 1890s it was not untill 1930s that one or two renounced gun makers emerged from that market .
i will try and look in Blue book of gun values for it and see if i can find any reference to the weapon .
p.s Am J ibrahim and sons never sold local made copies or guns as of my knowledge .and all the hammer actions guns made in england have made in england written on them and are known as ENGLISH SHOT GUNS .