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Shooterz
25-08-2010, 10:02 PM
Which is the best for HD? .22 semiauto rifle or magzine semiauto shotgun?

Afzaal
25-08-2010, 10:41 PM
sir theres no comparison between 2 since hd is main objective.

12ga is the most preferable.

Vik
26-08-2010, 09:11 AM
Magazine shotgun, Its not easy to insert mag in AK or AR type semi auto shotgun.
Some of the mags are plastic or plastic type.
Have a look at Turkish TomaHawk.

notorious
26-08-2010, 09:23 AM
The one i like is, AKDAL M 16 type...one AK brother and naveed brother checked out in one of the threads...

Silent killerr
26-08-2010, 09:58 AM
Which is the best for HD? .22 semiauto rifle or magzine semiauto shotgun?
.22 Rifle :o :o ? are you kidding me. it takes at least 10-15 shots on the right place to stop a person :(
.22 is just for fun i mean for target shooting. ;)

12 guage is considered as best for HD, And tube magazine is better so go for it and i think you are a new user so DSA is very good option

Bluff
26-08-2010, 10:29 AM
http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=5680

hmmm multiple threads @mods please close one

Vik
26-08-2010, 04:55 PM
Which is the best for HD? .22 semiauto rifle or magzine semiauto shotgun?
.22 Rifle :o :o ? are you kidding me. it takes at least 10-15 shots on the right place to stop a person :(
.22 is just for fun i mean for target shooting. ;)

12 guage is considered as best for HD, And tube magazine is better so go for it and i think you are a new user so DSA is very good option

What makes you so sure that It requires 10-15 shots of .22 to stop a person(read bad guy).
This is what I think of .22. Its a learning tool to move to next level.

Silent killerr
26-08-2010, 07:58 PM
Which is the best for HD? .22 semiauto rifle or magzine semiauto shotgun?
.22 Rifle :o :o ? are you kidding me. it takes at least 10-15 shots on the right place to stop a person :(
.22 is just for fun i mean for target shooting. ;)

12 guage is considered as best for HD, And tube magazine is better so go for it and i think you are a new user so DSA is very good option

What makes you so sure that It requires 10-15 shots of .22 to stop a person(read bad guy).
This is what I think of .22. Its a learning tool to move to next level.

I think it takes 1-2 bullets of .45, 3-4 of 9mm, to stop a bad guy. But if shoot on right place then 1 is enough. When it comes to .22, this caliber is not designed for SD/HD, it is just for fun. if a person rely on .22 for SD/HD he will definitely put his life on line. if it doesn't take 10-15, it will definitely take 8-10 :|

Mig
26-08-2010, 08:55 PM
@Silent Killer.

Yes You are right. the Bad Guy is not a Standing Target that U place the bullet to the right place. he must be a Moving and Resisting entity, so we cant rely on a .22

Go for a Pump Action Shotgun, or a Semi-Auto Shotgun if u dont like pump. And if dont want a shotgun, At least go for a 9mm pistol but do not think of .22 again for SD/HD

Aquarius
27-08-2010, 02:38 AM
Choosing in between Semis and Pumps for pure HD, I would preferably recommend Pump Action..
Otherwise if you are not comfortable with long guns, go for a reliable 9mm handgun.... :)

Shooterz
27-08-2010, 10:37 AM
And if select btw 9mm an GSG 5 which is the best for HD?

Silent killerr
27-08-2010, 11:24 AM
Shooterz, GSG 5 is .22 rifle. If you choose GSG as your self defense weapon, believe me you will put your life on the line.
9mm is far far better option then .22

Shooterz
27-08-2010, 11:42 AM
Sir My question is for HD?

Vik
27-08-2010, 02:11 PM
Sir My question is for HD?

First of all rifle is not for HD/SD. Be it .22 or any other caliber. Those rifles in NBP category
can't be used for SD/HD. NBP is non prohibited bore. You can use GSG5 .22 and than move on
to better weapons. But GSG5 not recommended for SD/HD.

Faisal Aziz
27-08-2010, 03:54 PM
Sir My question is for HD?
Dear Shooterz, The best gun for HD is .12 gauge. U can go for winchester defender 1300 .

Silent killerr
27-08-2010, 06:13 PM
Shooterz, GSG 5 is .22 rifle. If you choose GSG as your self defense weapon, believe me you will put your life on the line.
9mm is far far better option then .22

OK, if you cant use a weapon for self defense (Single person), so how could you use it for home defense(More than 1 persons)?, it is common sense :|

Silent killerr
27-08-2010, 06:16 PM
i think we have discuss this topic a lot, and every member (including me) suggest 12G, so if you wanna go with .22, it is your personal preference. Good luck

Mig
27-08-2010, 08:35 PM
i think we have discuss this topic a lot, and every member (including me) suggest 12G, so if you wanna go with .22, it is your personal preference. Good luck

+1

Shooterz
27-08-2010, 11:36 PM
Thank u SILENT KILLER. I'm with u. I'll go for 12G.

Aquarius
28-08-2010, 12:24 AM
Dear Shooterz, The best gun for HD is .12 gauge. U can go for winchester defender 1300 .

+1 Thats one of the most reliable pumps & the magazine/tube capacity is also fine.

Dr Zakir
28-08-2010, 12:29 AM
12 gauge best option for HD

Omer571
28-08-2010, 01:12 AM
12 guage , by all means

A.Abbas
28-08-2010, 01:15 AM
12 gauge , I'll prefer pump action with short barrel.

Silent killerr
28-08-2010, 10:13 AM
Thank u SILENT KILLER. I'm with u. I'll go for 12G.
Now this is a wise decision. Winchester defender 1300 is very reliable weapon, go for it

Shooterz
29-08-2010, 01:40 PM
I think that its out of my budget yet. I'll bring Hatsan or Maverick Mosseberg. And what about Baikal?

Silent killerr
29-08-2010, 06:01 PM
If you want semi-auto Baikal is very good, and if Pump-action then Hatsan escort.

PUNJTANI5
30-08-2010, 10:23 AM
a short barrelled shotgun .

Shooterz
30-08-2010, 02:26 PM
Is there any Hatsan semi auto?

Silent killerr
30-08-2010, 04:39 PM
yes i saw one at Fazalsons Rawalpindi.

Survivalist
30-08-2010, 09:36 PM
A .357 Revolver would be my choice of HD gun.

Silent killerr
30-08-2010, 09:38 PM
A .357 Revolver would be my choice of HD gun.
.357 is a very good caliber for Self defense, but when it comes to HD, no one can beat 12G

Vik
31-08-2010, 07:29 AM
A .357 Revolver would be my choice of HD gun.
.357 is a very good caliber for Self defense, but when it comes to HD, no one can beat 12G

But proper range/pattern testing must be done. Its not necessary that If we have 12gauge
that Its going to hit the badguy.
If its for HD proper measurement must be taken of the house. As to where the pellets are going to disburse. UNKA PHELAO(disbursement) KIA HUGA.

Silent killerr
31-08-2010, 07:38 AM
Vik bro i am totally agreed with you :)

ACHILLES
31-08-2010, 05:52 PM
Shotguns in Home Defence role are good.

ACHILLES
31-08-2010, 05:54 PM
Also see http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=5454

Shooterz
02-09-2010, 02:32 PM
Very informative link.

Agent47
02-09-2010, 06:10 PM
The best shotgun for HD surely has to be a pump action.
Maverick 88 is a very good option for the purpose.
Baikal is a outstanding weapon,but too large for HD.Ideal for hunting!!

Shooterz
04-09-2010, 02:23 PM
Why everyone tell about pump action? If u think about FTE or FTF then I think imported semi auto is reliable, and convenient than pump action, and its also time saving.

Vik
04-09-2010, 02:47 PM
Why everyone tell about pump action? If u think about FTE or FTF then I think imported semi auto is reliable, and convenient than pump action, and its also time saving.

Maybe b/c of safety issue. :)

Rasal.Saleh
04-09-2010, 03:07 PM
@ Shooterz, Sir any weapon kept for HD/SD has to be checked and practised with, Once you get the hang of pumping that shotgun, hopefully you wouldnt be dissappointed. The gun is only as good as the man behind it.
Also, FTF/FTE/misfire in a semi auto in a combat sitution would be harder to clear than a pump.

Regards

Agent47
04-09-2010, 04:38 PM
@ Shooterz.
Let me explain in a bit detail,why a good pump action is recommended for HD:

1st of all the ideal home defense shotgun should consist of a short barreled model, 18- to 22-inches, chambered for 12- or 20-gauge.High quality pump action shotguns offer a distinct advantage over auto in the sense that their operation tends to be mechanically reliable, even under the worst of adverse conditions.There is no sound in the world quite as identifiable or as intimidating as the rhythmic "click-click" of a pump action shotgun being racked. Again, in a home defense situation, the gun owner is cautioned to secure any loaded firearm, including a pump action shotgun, in a responsible manner.A reliable, well made pump action shotgun can usually be purchased at a cost less than a comparable quality handgun. Advantages of the shotgun are threefold. There exists less danger of harming third parties through walls in the event of an errant shot; the potential for inflicting wound trauma to a criminal assailant is maximized, thus halting a violent confrontation quickly; and it is easier to hit one's attacker with a shotgun when compared to a handgun.A superior quality auto represents an acceptable alternative to the pump. The action of the finer models tends to be flawless. As with any autoloader, one must be careful after the initial shot not to inadvertently discharge the firearm.For home defense, however, use 2-3/4-inch shells.Trust me! you cant go wrong with a good quality pump action.Hope this helps.

Oasis
04-09-2010, 06:04 PM
AOA ...

@Agent 47

Very nice explanation, hope help to understand. :)

Thx.

Shooterz
05-09-2010, 02:19 PM
Thanks agent 47 good explanation, actually I like semi auto for HD and for hunting also. Do u prefer any superior quality semi auto shot gun.

Agent47
05-09-2010, 08:56 PM
@shooterz
U r welcome.
well everybody have their own preferences.My personal favorite is the SPAS 12 guage.Benelli m4 is a good choice.check out the beretta tx4 storm,Beretta 391:Beretta's gas operated semi-automatic shotguns are all based on the same action, the 391. Built in a variety of variations, including one that handles the blonky 12 gauge 3.5" magnum shells, this action is obviously quite versatile. Add to that the good looks and reliability that Beretta shotguns are known for, and it sounds like a winning combination. Crossbolt safety is in front of the trigger in the trigger guard, a better location (easier to use) than behind the trigger,Franchi's 612 and 620 semi-autos.Mossberg 935.Remington's 1100 has been around for ages, and it's going strong.Winchester's Super X2 autoloading shotgun is gas-operated,a good piece.At a lower range,baikal 153 though not recommended for HD.Hatsan escort trio (synthetic model)
Hope it is satisfactory!

Shooterz
06-09-2010, 02:31 PM
Satisfactory? Amazing. Thank u sir.

Agent47
06-09-2010, 06:16 PM
@shooterz
u r welcome.

arfat110
20-11-2010, 08:21 PM
for hd go for shotgun

Engineeer
21-11-2010, 07:22 AM
for hd go for shotgun any good not pak made 4 obvious reasons

arfat110
21-11-2010, 01:23 PM
in shotguns go for pumpactions

Khalil
24-11-2010, 05:02 PM
bad luck is everywhere....

Faheem
25-11-2010, 08:42 PM
In my personal opinion 12 gauge is much better than rifle for HD.

I would prefere "Benelli Nova" due to its reliability and reasonable range....

Levan9X19
30-11-2010, 03:46 PM
If you live in countryside rifle is the way to go but if you live in urban area I think shotgun is prefered. distances are close and risk of overpenetration is lower.
a good reliable pump action is a nice solution to home defense. reliable with any ammo including less-lethal, huge firpower and reach up to 25-30 meters wich is absolutely acceptable for defense scenarios.

however police officers in USA found that a .233rem due to its fragmentation is in favt less overpenetrating than some 12 gauge slugs and M4 style carbines are replacing shotguns in patrol cars.
Also another argument to shotguns is that it is possibly less "hostile" weapon I mean it is common associated to defense weapon while rifle especialy semi autio carbines are related as "assault" weapons and this could be a problem in court.

My main HD "assets" are sawn off Stoeger SP312 5+1 pump action shotgun coupled with Cz97 .45ACP pistol

Vik
30-11-2010, 04:54 PM
http://www.pakguns.com/entry.php?4-My-Hobby-and-Guns
For Shotgun(HD) look at the first pic.

PA
01-12-2010, 10:54 PM
If House defense means scaring a thief, then a pistol or a shot gun are both good, but a pistol is more handy.
If House defence means fighting dacoits, then pistol or shot gun put on risk the safety of your family, for safeguarding possessions, better let go possessions.
If House defense mean fighting enemies who are bend to kill you with firearms, both pistol and shot gun are good but again a pistol is more handy, by handy I mean u can always keep a pistol with you where ever u r, but a shot gun is bigger in size and heavy so you cannot carry it all the times and might take a few minutes to grab it from the place you have kept it.
This also explains Self Defense.
In the end I would say the gun (pistol or shot gun) that you feel more at ease to use and the gun you are more adept at is the gun for you for HD or SD.
Type of bullets is a secondary issue for HD or SD.

bestmagician83
03-12-2010, 07:10 PM
12 G Shot gun is the best.......

wittycranium
04-12-2010, 06:29 PM
Dear Shooterz, The best gun for HD is .12 gauge. U can go for winchester defender 1300 .

12ga is best. Winchester Defendor 1300 is one of the most, if not THE most, reliable guns for HD. Best here advice bro.

Almuharib
05-01-2011, 08:34 PM
12GA would be the best option

Syed Rehmat
11-11-2011, 06:34 PM
12gauge pump action!!!!! WOW...
quick to shoot quick to reload...
no other option, for home defence or self defence.

Sturmgewehr
16-11-2011, 11:58 AM
I agree with Mr.Rehmat indeed 12 guage pump actions are reliable and effective for HD.

Ahnab
17-11-2011, 03:49 PM
@Sturmgewehr
Although your real-world namesake would be perfect for HD! StG44 FOR LIFE! :-p

Nazim Sahib
17-11-2011, 05:13 PM
There is no weapon that can beat a pump action shotgun for close quarters.I have and would recomend a Mossberg model 500.
But even any pump action,double barrel or even single barrel would suffice.

Shah Rifat Alam
08-12-2011, 03:34 PM
Dear friends, a .22 is a great weapon provided you know how to use it! A .22 rifle for home defense makes no sense, we don't need range here. A .22 pistol is great, ONE shot in the head with a CCI Stinger HP is all it takes! However, a shotgun is preferable for the area the shot covers and therefore the damage it can do.

Masroor
09-12-2011, 10:14 PM
12 Bore Shot Gun Is the Best Home Defense Wepon. No Match For this.

Birdshooter007
09-12-2011, 10:19 PM
12 Bore Shot Gun Is the Best Home Defense Wepon. No Match For this.
What about 8 Bore and 10 Bore shotguns :rolleyes:

mayorajpoot5
09-12-2011, 10:33 PM
12 G is better then other arms

Mian Jee
11-12-2011, 10:54 PM
Glock 17 with 33 round mag full with HP's + tactical light with laser sight.

I know it's about Rifle or Shotgun but,,,,
I'll always prefer it on my AK & Defender 1300,
day or night.

any opinions ;

Birdshooter007
11-12-2011, 11:04 PM
IMO,
The best weapon for HD is:
8 shot Semi-Auto 12 Gauge shotgun, any of the following: (0,00,000 or 0000)buckshot

Canik
12-12-2011, 12:38 AM
.22 Rifle :o :o ? are you kidding me. it takes at least 10-15 shots on the right place to stop a person :(
.22 is just for fun i mean for target shooting. ;)

12 guage is considered as best for HD, And tube magazine is better so go for it and i think you are a new user so DSA is very good option


12 Bore Shot Gun Is the Best Home Defense Wepon. No Match For this.


these are the best answers.........

Birdshooter007
12-12-2011, 09:53 AM
@ Silent Killer
One shot of a .22lr placed properly is as much as required for killing a BG. The minimal recoil makes it very useful and accurate. And it's not just a 'fun' caliber but for hunting too.
A properly placed shot from a .22 is much better than wild shot from a .44magnum.

Kamranwali
12-12-2011, 10:33 AM
@ Silent Killer
One shot of a .22lr placed properly is as much as required for killing a BG. The minimal recoil makes it very useful and accurate. And it's not just a 'fun' caliber but for hunting too.
A properly placed shot from a .22 is much better than wild shot from a .44magnum.

Salam All,
I wonder why LEAs use these big calibres, when a .22 can be enough..... :D

Ok, on a serious note....there has been a long debate of 9mm vs .45 going on FOREVER between LEA personnel and people concerned with SD/HD. The argument of .45 side is the overpenetrative nature of the 9mm round. This is one time that both 9mm and .45 lobbies would agree, THE .22 IS NOT MEANT FOR HD/SD, PERIOD!!! Yes we all know that a bullet to the head a BG would kill him, but what needs to understood here is that in a situation a normal person will not have the time, luxury or cool to aim and hit the BG with a single shot. Now, what will happen next.... the BG is going to hit back, probably with a .30(in Pakistan). The idea of a big round is so that even if you hit a non vital area, the shot WILL cause damage, and the BG might even decide to run away.

Guys, any one using a .22 for SD/HD, please do not risk yourself or your loved ones because you just wanted to PROVE that a .22 can do the job :)
And yeah, I know that the bullet can kill, but so can a stone if it is used in a proper way....

Birdshooter007
12-12-2011, 10:48 AM
Salam All,
I wonder why LEAs use these big calibres, when a .22 can be enough..... :D

Ok, on a serious note....there has been a long debate of 9mm vs .45 going on FOREVER between LEA personnel and people concerned with SD/HD. The argument of .45 side is the overpenetrative nature of the 9mm round. This is one time that both 9mm and .45 lobbies would agree, THE .22 IS NOT MEANT FOR HD/SD, PERIOD!!! Yes we all know that a bullet to the head a BG would kill him, but what needs to understood here is that in a situation a normal person will not have the time, luxury or cool to aim and hit the BG with a single shot. Now, what will happen next.... the BG is going to hit back, probably with a .30(in Pakistan). The idea of a big round is so that even if you hit a non vital area, the shot WILL cause damage, and the BG might even decide to run away.

Guys, any one using a .22 for SD/HD, please do not risk yourself or your loved ones because you just wanted to PROVE that a .22 can do the job :)
And yeah, I know that the bullet can kill, but so can a stone if it is used in a proper way....
The probability of a stone is much much lesser then that of a .22...... nobody is suggesting anyone to use a .22, just a correction to silent killer's opinion.

Mod edit : Cahuhadry please refrain from discussing Pb Stuff

Faisji
12-12-2011, 11:14 AM
I hope everyone here can remember

"Know your target and what's beyond it"


22LR is not a redundant round when it come to home defense.remember it's your home if your are not able to place yourself at immediate advantage in a defensive position then It's your weakness not the the weapon's

Also defensive shooting is not about matching some FBI report from 20 years ago that said a "average" gunfight is 3 shots.The key word everyone forgets is "AVERAGE"If faced with a treat fire until they stop moving be it 3 or 30 rounds.

Shotguns are not capable of producing magical walls of death that travel in the direction of bad guy they still require skills and shot placement.Also remember the recoil on the gun will most probably take you off target so hitting again might not be possible without realigning the shotgun.

Rifles require proper shot placement otherwise they are not better than clubs.

from personal experience,in a stress situation(life or death) recoils are exxagerated,distances suddenly are garbled,weapons develop "bullet drop syndrome",and you end up firing full mags without actually scoring vital hits because targets are not standing still like the ones at the gun club/farmhouse.in these situations i rather have a high cap handgun with controllable recoil with at least 1 extra mags.

Kamranwali
12-12-2011, 11:28 AM
Lets, get back on topic.... since semi auto and auto rifles are PB in Pakistan, the best choice for HD/SD would be a pump action shotgun, IMHO, because a semi auto shotgun, even if using the most reliable one, does have a certain probability of jamming on you. Depending on your pocket I would recommend a DSA pump action, any one of the turkish brands available(no personal experience but people have lots of good things to say abt them), Remington 870, Winchester 1300 or a Mossberg.
Also, if living in urban areas, one of the issues of using a rifle would be the ricochet when using in a confined space.

This is just my opinion.

Regards.

P.S. +1 Faisji Bro.

Mode Edit : PB discussion not allowed bro , Lines removed from post

Canik
12-12-2011, 11:31 AM
mods where are you?

Birdshooter007
12-12-2011, 11:31 AM
My vote goes to newer Semi-Autos they are as reliable as PA's!

Kamranwali
12-12-2011, 11:49 AM
My vote goes to newer Semi-Autos they are as reliable as PA's!

Bro, I most respectfully disagree..... even if its a one in a million chance, I wont take it...... but this is a free country, in the end you buy what you chose. :)

Regards.

Canik
12-12-2011, 11:57 AM
@Chauhadry Bro..... :)
You're venturing into PB territory...... because then I can say that a 7.62x51 is better than a 7.62x39(in terms of stopping power).....:)

Lets, get back on topic.... since semi auto and auto rifles are PB in Pakistan, the best choice for HD/SD would be a pump action shotgun, IMHO, because a semi auto shotgun, even if using the most reliable one, does have a certain probability of jamming on you. Depending on your pocket I would recommend a DSA pump action, any one of the turkish brands available(no personal experience but people have lots of good things to say abt them), Remington 870, Winchester 1300 or a Mossberg.
Also, if living in urban areas, one of the issues of using a rifle would be the ricochet when using in a confined space.

This is just my opinion.

Regards.

P.S. +1 Faisji Bro.


Bro, I most respectfully disagree..... even if its a one in a million chance, I wont take it...... but this is a free country, in the end you buy what you chose. :)

Regards.


1) you are right best weapon for home defense pump action
2) recommendation pump is very good
3) yes its a free country (democracy) do what you want. haha hhaa lolz......

Avais
12-12-2011, 12:18 PM
I believe shot gun of any kind as it enables you very easy handling and effective usage results.

Naveed_pk
12-12-2011, 12:55 PM
Canik wrote :

mods where are you?

@ Canik Bro , we are always available just Push the report button to "Call" us :)


Regards

Canik
12-12-2011, 01:24 PM
Canik wrote :


@ Canik Bro , we are always available just Push the report button to "Call" us :)


Regards

ok and thanks.
glad to see the removal of prohibited post.

Regards

Kamranwali
12-12-2011, 02:39 PM
Mode Edit : PB discussion not allowed bro , Lines removed from post
Thanks for intervening Naveed Bro, I was wondering why mods didn't stop it already, now I know I should have hit the report button :D My bad...

Naveed_pk
12-12-2011, 03:03 PM
@ Kamran bro sometimes threads skip out of mod eyes too , at that time we need members to call us where they think a "Mod job" is need . Just push the triangle shape "report" button under each and every post . :)

regards

Mr.khan
12-12-2011, 07:12 PM
in my openion shotgun is the best ,it is so easy to handle

Birdshooter007
12-12-2011, 07:44 PM
in my openion shotgun is the best ,it is so easy to handle
+1
Wise Choice.

Trajan
12-12-2011, 07:51 PM
Bro, I most respectfully disagree..... even if its a one in a million chance, I wont take it...... but this is a free country, in the end you buy what you chose. :)

Regards.

Shotguns over rifles anyday for HD. but dont' Semi-autos' have the bolt to deal w/ any possible jams?
I have seen locally made pump actions jam left right and center when they are pumped at a certain angle. If you can afford it , get the best and most reliable weapon you can afford.

Birdshooter007
12-12-2011, 08:35 PM
Shotguns over rifles anyday for HD. but dont' Semi-autos' have the bolt to deal w/ any possible jams?
I have seen locally made pump actions jam left right and center when they are pumped at a certain angle. If you can afford it , get the best and most reliable weapon you can afford.
Thanks for the nice info, my love for semi-autos is increasing :)
But choice is yours as this is a democratic country. :lol:

Kamranwali
12-12-2011, 10:33 PM
Shotguns over rifles anyday for HD. but dont' Semi-autos' have the bolt to deal w/ any possible jams?
I have seen locally made pump actions jam left right and center when they are pumped at a certain angle. If you can afford it , get the best and most reliable weapon you can afford.

Salam Trajan Bro,
Ok, consider this, you have a shotgun shouldered in a situation. You press the trigger, but the round fails to ignite..... now in a semi auto, you have to take your one of your hands(in most cases your trigger hand) and pull back to load a new round, but with the pump action, your front hand is already ON the action of the bolt, all you have to do is pull back, push back and we're ready.
Case 2, you fire a round but round fails to eject, with the shell caught in your action, you again have to take one of your hands off the normal position and use force to clear the shell. With a pump action, you can exert more force just because of the posture you're in.
Case 3, you shoot, the case eject but the gun fails to feed the round. Once again the outcome should be predictable :)

The second thing that you pointed out of pump action guns jamming, but like you said they were local guns, the materials and engineering principles of production in these are mostly flawed(even more specifically, the ones that jam). That's why a GOOD pump action is recommended. I personally have used the DSA Shooter, a Remington 870 and a Winchester 1300. No issues whatsoever.

All this said, I am not saying that semi autos will ALWAYS jam, just that the probability of one jamming is higher(due to all the moving parts involved) than that of a pump action. Even a pump action can malfunction, just the probability is lower. Therefore I think the role of a semi auto is more in a hunt or on a range, where a failure can be tolerated, but in a SD situation, well I'll just leave it your imagination. :)


Regards.

Canik
12-12-2011, 10:59 PM
Shotguns over rifles anyday for HD. but dont' Semi-autos' have the bolt to deal w/ any possible jams?
I have seen locally made pump actions jam left right and center when they are pumped at a certain angle. If you can afford it , get the best and most reliable weapon you can afford.


Salam Trajan Bro,
Ok, consider this, you have a shotgun shouldered in a situation. You press the trigger, but the round fails to ignite..... now in a semi auto, you have to take your one of your hands(in most cases your trigger hand) and pull back to load a new round, but with the pump action, your front hand is already ON the action of the bolt, all you have to do is pull back, push back and we're ready.
Case 2, you fire a round but round fails to eject, with the shell caught in your action, you again have to take one of your hands off the normal position and use force to clear the shell. With a pump action, you can exert more force just because of the posture you're in.
Case 3, you shoot, the case eject but the gun fails to feed the round. Once again the outcome should be predictable :)

The second thing that you pointed out of pump action guns jamming, but like you said they were local guns, the materials and engineering principles of production in these are mostly flawed(even more specifically, the ones that jam). That's why a GOOD pump action is recommended. I personally have used the DSA Shooter, a Remington 870 and a Winchester 1300. No issues whatsoever.

All this said, I am not saying that semi autos will ALWAYS jam, just that the probability of one jamming is higher(due to all the moving parts involved) than that of a pump action. Even a pump action can malfunction, just the probability is lower. Therefore I think the role of a semi auto is more in a hunt or on a range, where a failure can be tolerated, but in a SD situation, well I'll just leave it your imagination. :)


Regards.


Dear brothers.
Both pump action and semi autos are best.
Just like manual and automatic gear transfers like cars.
Drive the manual as what you want, gear shifting is in your hand to boost or down the car.
And on auto you have no options but to wait when the cars automatically shifts gear from down to up and up to down.

As far as HD purpose pump is excellent and semi autos are good

And one thing everybody thinks in his own style. Some feel comfortable to use pump and others semi autos. But for higher risk involve in fighting with robbers or bad guys pump is best due to minimum time of thinking and fighting.
Use pump.

Chuk chuck dhoooz, chuck chuck dhooz. Wow the sound is enough to scared

Faisji
13-12-2011, 07:36 AM
Salam Trajan Bro,
Ok, consider this, you have a shotgun shouldered in a situation. You press the trigger, but the round fails to ignite..... now in a semi auto, you have to take your one of your hands(in most cases your trigger hand) and pull back to load a new round, but with the pump action, your front hand is already ON the action of the bolt, all you have to do is pull back, push back and we're ready.
Case 2, you fire a round but round fails to eject, with the shell caught in your action, you again have to take one of your hands off the normal position and use force to clear the shell. With a pump action, you can exert more force just because of the posture you're in.
Case 3, you shoot, the case eject but the gun fails to feed the round. Once again the outcome should be predictable :)

The second thing that you pointed out of pump action guns jamming, but like you said they were local guns, the materials and engineering principles of production in these are mostly flawed(even more specifically, the ones that jam). That's why a GOOD pump action is recommended. I personally have used the DSA Shooter, a Remington 870 and a Winchester 1300. No issues whatsoever.

All this said, I am not saying that semi autos will ALWAYS jam, just that the probability of one jamming is higher(due to all the moving parts involved) than that of a pump action. Even a pump action can malfunction, just the probability is lower. Therefore I think the role of a semi auto is more in a hunt or on a range, where a failure can be tolerated, but in a SD situation, well I'll just leave it your imagination. :)


Regards.

Sounds like someone needs to practice malfunction clearances a bit more. Also that's why you never rely on just one weapon in a HD and even in SD situation.

Kamranwali
13-12-2011, 10:01 AM
Sounds like someone needs to practice malfunction clearances a bit more. Also that's why you never rely on just one weapon in a HD and even in SD situation.

Salam All,
Faisji Bro, I agree on the second point. Ideally I will always want to keep a good reliable handgun along with the shotgun.
Abt the first point well, I have seen your videos :), and let me tell you that not everyone practices like you. Yes, practice will definitely make the clearance more Natural, but I am saying that in a high stress situation clearing of a malfunction in a pump is easier than that of a Semi auto (for 'Common Joe' users, like myself)
Since I am a firearm enthusiast as well (probably not as much as your good self :) ), I would NEVER mind a good tactical Semi auto :D. But in a situation, I'll still reach for my good ol' pump. Maybe thats just because of the confidence I have in this weapon.....

Disclaimer: This is just the way I think guys, your mileage may vary :D

Regards.

Nazim Sahib
13-12-2011, 12:05 PM
I had a chance of getting a good semi auto for HD but went for a pump action instead.The idea of HD is Close quarters combat and that isnt a situation where you would want a Jam.For HD i would even prefer a double barrel to a semi auto.
I have a mossberg model 500 and let me tell you its chances of jamming are almost non existant if applied and used properly..The only way it would ever jam is if it is pumped at a very wrong sort of angle which cant happen,other then that of course it would Jam if parts started breaking.
I have heard of quite a few semi auto shotguns which Jam if fed WAH ammo whereas a pump action would take everything you feed it.

Masroor
15-12-2011, 10:48 AM
Shotguns over rifles anyday for HD. but dont' Semi-autos' have the bolt to deal w/ any possible jams?
I have seen locally made pump actions jam left right and center when they are pumped at a certain angle. If you can afford it , get the best and most reliable weapon you can afford.

Dear I m Agree with u.

Faisji
15-12-2011, 11:03 AM
Salam All,
but I am saying that in a high stress situation clearing of a malfunction in a pump is easier than that of a Semi auto

Regards.
A Reality check


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zPBS6MoVbc

Never take others word for it.Always Practice with your weapon at extreme disadvantage and become proficient .That way when it matters it will not be shock to you.Clearing malfunctions should be second nature like breathing for anyone who relies on a particular weapon platform for HD or SD

Black Commando
31-03-2012, 08:38 AM
I will prefer 12 G for HD.
I have both the guns .22 Zastavia made and 12 Guage ak74 shape Pakmade but i depend on 12 guage

Ameer
31-03-2012, 09:21 PM
Its Shot-Gun whether magizine feeded or not

mythical
07-08-2012, 12:13 AM
A rifle shaped magzine fed 12 gauge is literally a rifle visually like the Saiga-12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saiga-12)

will It will be on a rifle licence or shotgun licence ?

Enigmatic Desires
07-08-2012, 03:15 AM
A rifle shaped magzine fed 12 gauge is literally a rifle visually like the Saiga-12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saiga-12)

will It will be on a rifle licence or shotgun licence ?

I had 1 of those.. Its a shot gun /& shotguns r registered on shotgun lic

mythical
07-08-2012, 04:07 AM
Wiki says
The Saiga-12 is a 12-gauge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_(bore_diameter)) combat shotgun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_shotgun)
Legal status
In Russia this shotgun can be relatively simply obtained, requiring only a "smoothbore-gun license" (which is relatively easy to obtain, compared to a "rifle license" that requires a five-year period of owning a smoothbore gun and a hunting permit)
In the US state of California, as configured from the factory, it can be classified as an "assault weapon", as it is a semiautomatic shotgun with the ability to accept a detachable magazine. However, if a magazine lock that only allows the magazine to be removed by use of a tool is installed, it is no longer classified as such, as its previously detachable magazine is then rendered a fixed magazine.

i don't think magazine (detachable/fixed) classification has yet entered the minds of policy makers here

eminentpk
18-05-2013, 11:09 PM
ok. here i am. an old pakgun member, who made a mistake of just reading than writing, i have used and owned .22lr rifles, and 12 gauge one too. I think i am good at aiming, firing, using, cleaning, and maintaining. But to my believe. I was shocked with the performance of my .22lr types. I read all the comments and posts of this thread. I wondered why anyone didnt try the hollow point of .22lr at a hunting or a sd level? i am a proud user of .22lr hollow point bullets. A guy once jumped into my house, my dog teared him up and then ran away. Thnx to my dog, he"s rottwieler. ( now i live in a farm house in lahore near raiwind road). I just got up, brushed my teeth, watched out of the window, which i have a habbit of watching and found, 4 guys sitting on the shade of a tree. I was alarmed. I just kept watching them, cos of tinted windows, somehow they couldnt watchme back and i was. However, this kept on carrying on and i kept on watching on their moves, a guy with another bike handed over something to them, wierd situation with a wierd gesture of visitors, i send my gaurd loaded, and asked him to enquire the issue, the guys just said they are just out of petrol and waiting for their friend to refuel them. I was was curious to know. I was all ready to intercept these crooks when something caught my mind. A women with a push chair was walking around on another street near by with a kid on the push chair when the stray dogs started barking at her, i got alarmed and immediately moved my aim, the stray dogs were were mad or i dont know wht, they were determined to attack her, immediately i went down, i ran down to her, ignoring what is happened at my end the basturds were still there, but i ran out and shot the 4 dogs at 15 meter distance max. they were dead as stone. within seconds, those guys who were sitting for something infront of my home, kicked their bikes and ran away. Thats a real life story i experienced.

eminentpk
18-05-2013, 11:14 PM
.22lr is a good gun for sd as long you dont intend to kill someone. Infact i believe .22lr are the more than pb, cos when they hurt, they make sure they take u to death. Google search and forum searches say. .22lr is made to kill. people have died after 4 months of being shot cos of no reason. .22lr is a mysterious round. Beware.

sadatpk
19-05-2013, 07:51 PM
Br let me say we must have both,rifle and shot gun along with revolver and some pistols,why to choose only one??????????
sir eminentpk .22 is gorgious bore and no dout it is multipurpose and a good option for civilians (http://www.pakguns.com/member.php?196-eminentpk)

gun_craze
23-02-2014, 08:35 PM
AoA, loged in after a longgg time. Need advice to buy a shotgun for HD. Also pls suggest which one is better pump action or auto-loader? My budget is 50~60K. Thanks.

colt 1911
24-02-2014, 12:17 AM
AoA, loged in after a longgg time. Need advice to buy a shotgun for HD. Also pls suggest which one is better pump action or auto-loader? My budget is 50~60K. Thanks.

SA is faster than PA but one can become reasonably fast with a PA with practice. the chances of FTF(failure to feed) and FTE are lesser in a PA shotgun.so it all boils down to ones own preference. in your budget you can have baikal mp153 and a few models of turkish shotuns.

gun_craze
24-02-2014, 10:01 PM
Thanks colt1911. Could you also pls recommend any shop for this purchase?

Surg.Ray
24-02-2014, 10:08 PM
How about a Hatsan Escort combo semiauto? The shorter barrel will also fire slugs.

Aquarius
24-02-2014, 10:24 PM
Your first HD weapon should always be a good quality Pump Action.

colt 1911
24-02-2014, 11:42 PM
Thanks colt1911. Could you also pls recommend any shop for this purchase?

bro i dont know much about lahore market but you can check a few shotguns at National Traders

Ashes
25-02-2014, 09:45 AM
SA is faster than PA but one can become reasonably fast with a PA with practice. the chances of FTF(failure to feed) and FTE are lesser in a PA shotgun.so it all boils down to ones own preference. in your budget you can have baikal mp153 and a few models of turkish shotuns.

my first choice for HD (and hopefully my last) was and will always be a Pump Action... I too was told that SAs are faster etc but i practiced a lot.

not trying to blow my own trumpet, but I have just won the first position in a very intense "Extreme Shotgun Challenge" held over the past weekend. there were approx 15 participants and only 2 were using Pump Actions; the rest were all SemiAutos... however the first and third prize went to PA users ;)

the point is, what's faster and easier and whatnot only depends on how familiar you grow with your gun and how much you practice and learn from a good instructor :)

Enigmatic Desires
25-02-2014, 10:00 AM
Yes.. But U r naturally good with weapons as it is. Better overall hand eye co-ordination instinctive alignment of the sights.

Me I fumble with Pumps.

Now an SA woud make life so much easier. I simply point and shoot.

Ashes
25-02-2014, 10:20 AM
Yes.. But U r naturally good with weapons as it is. Better overall hand eye co-ordination instinctive alignment of the sights.

Me I fumble with Pumps.

Now an SA woud make life so much easier. I simply point and shoot.

wasn't always boss... never been good at any sport (requiring eye-hand coordination) other than a game of Chess or Snooker (only indoor stuff) :)

May 2013 was when i first held a pistol in my hands and was trembling after the first 6 rounds and had to sit down! :D

was equally apprehensive about buying a shottie since I had "heard" it has nasty recoil... first few shots and i needed Feldene massages on my shoulder for 3 days after!

couldn't shoot straight nor balance either weapons... that was 10 months ago; so practice is all that is needed :D

Enigmatic Desires
25-02-2014, 10:29 AM
Yes.. u right.. I have been practising for almost 4 years. And now I finaly Finaly got a round on paper . at 10 yards with a 9mm.. And it was my own target not my neighbours!!! I am a happy man.

Ashes
25-02-2014, 10:52 AM
Yes.. u right.. I have been practising for almost 4 years. And now I finaly Finaly got a round on paper . at 10 yards with a 9mm.. And it was my own target not my neighbours!!! I am a happy man.

hmmm, in the event where one has difficulty walking and chewing gum at the same time, I can't comment! :D hahahah

Come on man, seriously how much have you practiced?? this is one heck of a perishable skill and you take breaks of 1-2 months in between a session; of course this will happen... :)

Ashes
25-02-2014, 11:13 AM
yo, how about we go together on a more frequent basis??

Enigmatic Desires
25-02-2014, 12:31 PM
yo, how about we go together on a more frequent basis??

Yes sure.

I think I will 'upgrade' to a shottie. Kind of difficult to miss a man sized paper target at 10 yards with a 9 round shot.

Enigmatic Desires
25-02-2014, 12:36 PM
hmmm, in the event where one has difficulty walking and chewing gum at the same time, I can't comment! :D hahahah

Come on man, seriously how much have you practiced?? this is one heck of a perishable skill and you take breaks of 1-2 months in between a session; of course this will happen... :)

In order for a skill to Parish.. Said skill has to be 'acquired' first. :(

I have shot everything from a .22 lr to the G3 on full auto. And apart from my revolver I have yet to be accurate in anything I shoot.

Ooo great Guru I would appreciate your help.

Ashes
25-02-2014, 02:43 PM
In order for a skill to Parish.. Said skill has to be 'acquired' first. :(

and that is only possible with practice :)


I have shot everything from a .22 lr to the G3 on full auto. And apart from my revolver I have yet to be accurate in anything I shoot.

thats coz you shoot everything and anything, and then move on instead of sticking to just one or two ;) (Happy New Year style?) :D

Enigmatic Desires
25-02-2014, 03:44 PM
and that is only possible with practice :)



thats coz you shoot everything and anything, and then move on instead of sticking to just one or two ;) (Happy New Year style?) :D

Yes.. U r right.. Soo I have been sticking to the 9mm past few weeks .. and finally managed that hit on paper.

Ashes
25-02-2014, 05:16 PM
Yes.. U r right.. Soo I have been sticking to the 9mm past few weeks .. and finally managed that hit on paper.

there you go then! :)

colt 1911
26-02-2014, 01:12 AM
my first choice for HD (and hopefully my last) was and will always be a Pump Action... I too was told that SAs are faster etc but i practiced a lot.

not trying to blow my own trumpet, but I have just won the first position in a very intense "Extreme Shotgun Challenge" held over the past weekend. there were approx 15 participants and only 2 were using Pump Actions; the rest were all SemiAutos... however the first and third prize went to PA users ;)

the point is, what's faster and easier and whatnot only depends on how familiar you grow with your gun and how much you practice and learn from a good instructor :)

congrats on winning the competition. which PA did you use?

Ashes
26-02-2014, 10:16 AM
congrats on winning the competition. which PA did you use?

thank you sir!

I have a Jaguar Marine Guard (AKA Hatsan) which i'm planning to change for a better weapon; maybe a Mossberg or Winchester.

sufian shahid
26-02-2014, 02:08 PM
Your first HD weapon should always be a good quality Pump Action.

I feel the magazine fed shotguns are definitely way superior in terms of the reloading aspect.

sufian shahid
26-02-2014, 02:09 PM
AoA, loged in after a longgg time. Need advice to buy a shotgun for HD. Also pls suggest which one is better pump action or auto-loader? My budget is 50~60K. Thanks.

MKA 1919 is a good option.

sufian shahid
26-02-2014, 02:11 PM
Yes.. But U r naturally good with weapons as it is. Better overall hand eye co-ordination instinctive alignment of the sights.

Me I fumble with Pumps.

Now an SA woud make life so much easier. I simply point and shoot.

I have kept a pump action previously, and now I have a MKA 1919 with a 10 round magazine. I feel a lot more ready to confront any bad guy now.

sufian shahid
26-02-2014, 02:14 PM
Shotguns over rifles anyday for HD. but dont' Semi-autos' have the bolt to deal w/ any possible jams?
I have seen locally made pump actions jam left right and center when they are pumped at a certain angle. If you can afford it , get the best and most reliable weapon you can afford.

I have similar experience with a PA.

Enigmatic Desires
26-02-2014, 02:22 PM
I have kept a pump action previously, and now I have a MKA 1919 with a 10 round magazine. I feel a lot more ready to confront any bad guy now.


Thats a good option The M1919 loaded with double nought buck shot. Popularly called SG here.

Ashes
27-02-2014, 05:19 PM
http://www.pakguns.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Trajan http://www.pakguns.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.pakguns.com/showthread.php?p=230937#post230937)

Shotguns over rifles anyday for HD. but dont' Semi-autos' have the bolt to deal w/ any possible jams?
I have seen locally made pump actions jam left right and center when they are pumped at a certain angle. If you can afford it , get the best and most reliable weapon you can afford.



the point is without practice, no trouble shooting device will work :)

as a mechanism, it is established that the simplicity and fewer parts of a PA make it more reliable, and easy to disassemble/clean etc too.

As for locally-made PAs, locally made anything will do just that :) whether you get a PA, SA or mag-fed; unless it's a good make and model, issues are inevitable.

but of course, in the end it's all about personal preferences... when we fall for something, we tend to defend it blindly ;)

Enigmatic Desires
27-02-2014, 11:37 PM
the point is without practice, no trouble shooting device will work :)

as a mechanism, it is established that the simplicity and fewer parts of a PA make it more reliable, and easy to disassemble/clean etc too.

As for locally-made PAs, locally made anything will do just that :) whether you get a PA, SA or mag-fed; unless it's a good make and model, issues are inevitable.

but of course, in the end it's all about personal preferences... when we fall for something, we tend to defend it blindly ;)

My solution is simpler. Get licences for both!

hmd
28-02-2014, 12:34 AM
My solution is simpler. Get licences for both!
I like your solution bro .

gun_craze
28-02-2014, 10:22 PM
Thats a good option The M1919 loaded with double nought buck shot. Popularly called SG here.

I have seen M1919 yesterday and got impressed with its heavy looks. BTW, what about M1919 performance especially FTF or FTE caz I am very much interested to buy M1919 due to its heavy looks.

Enigmatic Desires
03-03-2014, 09:35 AM
I have seen M1919 yesterday and got impressed with its heavy looks. BTW, what about M1919 performance especially FTF or FTE caz I am very much interested to buy M1919 due to its heavy looks.

Its an SD weapon not a hunting one. So don't expect it to function well with anything other then SG and other brands of buckshot. And yes u need to break her in for around a 100 shots or so before she will perform flawlessly

gun_craze
03-03-2014, 10:19 PM
Its an SD weapon not a hunting one. So don't expect it to function well with anything other then SG and other brands of buckshot. And yes u need to break her in for around a 100 shots or so before she will perform flawlessly

Thanks Enigmatic Desires for explanation, but since this would be my 1st shot gun therefore I don't know about the ammo types. I believe SG mean slug and also pls recommend the appropriate ammo for HD keeping in view the MKA1919.
Lastly, pls also explain why this gun needs 100 rounds to perform flawlessly and what kind of flaws she could have? Experts' advice will be highly appreciated :)

Aquarius
04-03-2014, 04:40 AM
A good quality Pump Action like winnie or mossy is best for HD, however many new Semi Autos are also quite reliable to be used for HD.. don't know about MKA1919 but Vepr & Saiga are quite reliable.

Enigmatic Desires
04-03-2014, 10:26 AM
Thanks Enigmatic Desires for explanation, but since this would be my 1st shot gun therefore I don't know about the ammo types. I believe SG mean slug and also pls recommend the appropriate ammo for HD keeping in view the MKA1919.
Lastly, pls also explain why this gun needs 100 rounds to perform flawlessly and what kind of flaws she could have? Experts' advice will be highly appreciated :)


No she can handle slugs. But SG is buck shot not a slug round. SG has 9 pallet shot load (if I recollect correctly) While a slug has only one. a big mean hunk of metal.

These are typically more powerful then lighter loads such as #s 4 to 9. The more powerful the load the easier it will cycle in a semi auto. ALL defense weapons should be tried at least a hundred times before U can trust your life wiht em. In the case of the M1919. It needs to be fired to break her in and smoothen the action. Till it becomes flawless. Most people dont know that which is why U will find a lot fo used M1919 in hte market.

gun_craze
05-03-2014, 10:24 PM
Thanks a lot. Will get back to you soon after the purchase :)

Skeeter60
06-03-2014, 02:53 PM
Which is the best for HD? .22 semiauto rifle or magzine semiauto shotgun?

A shot gun is deadly even in untrained hands.
How ever no one keeps a loaded shot gun next to him in his house. When ever the decoits come they come without warning, suddenly through the kitchen or over a wall or by keeping a gun on the head of a house or family member and the first time one learns the dacoits are in your house is when you see a gun barrel pointed at you.
A shotgun cannot be kept loaded or handy at home. A pistol on your body, belt holster or pocket or stuck to a magnet under a bed side table or your favourite piece of furniture will give you an oppurtunity.

Ashes
06-03-2014, 03:31 PM
A shot gun is deadly even in untrained hands.

this is a huge myth :)

A shotgun needs as much aiming capability as a handgun... and contrary to popular belief, not always does a single shot prove to be a man-stopper.

Imtiaz Shah
06-03-2014, 04:14 PM
A shot gun is deadly even in untrained hands.
How ever no one keeps a loaded shot gun next to him in his house. When ever the decoits come they come without warning, suddenly through the kitchen or over a wall or by keeping a gun on the head of a house or family member and the first time one learns the dacoits are in your house is when you see a gun barrel pointed at you.
A shotgun cannot be kept loaded or handy at home. A pistol on your body, belt holster or pocket or stuck to a magnet under a bed side table or your favourite piece of furniture will give you an opportunity.

A rifle is a No No for HD (over-penetrative round and too long a weapon for cramped spaces indoors).
Short-barrel pump or SA shotgun with SG shells can be a choice. But, shots/slugs can do unacceptable damage to the home you are defending. Indoors flash and noise can be deafening and disorienting for the defender. Also, unwieldy, longish weapon which may be snatched by attacker in confined spaces. Finally, you cannot answer every door-bell with a shotgun in hand, plainly visible.
Like a rifle, shotgun also needs use of two hands. You may be needing one hand to open/close doors, gather family etc.
For HD the only way to go is a handgun. One may super-carry a handgun when moving within home.
I know, this goes against conventional wisdom, nevertheless some HD consultants are now advocating handguns over shotguns.
All above is from the internet sources, I am converted.

Ashes
10-03-2014, 10:15 AM
A rifle is a No No for HD (over-penetrative round and too long a weapon for cramped spaces indoors).
Short-barrel pump or SA shotgun with SG shells can be a choice. But, shots/slugs can do unacceptable damage to the home you are defending. Indoors flash and noise can be deafening and disorienting for the defender. Also, unwieldy, longish weapon which may be snatched by attacker in confined spaces. Finally, you cannot answer every door-bell with a shotgun in hand, plainly visible.
Like a rifle, shotgun also needs use of two hands. You may be needing one hand to open/close doors, gather family etc.
For HD the only way to go is a handgun. One may super-carry a handgun when moving within home.
I know, this goes against conventional wisdom, nevertheless some HD consultants are now advocating handguns over shotguns.
All above is from the internet sources, I am converted.

+1... very well summarized.

these are the reasons I've put away my shottie cleaned & lubed in it's case under the bed :)

The house is now covered by 4 strategically placed handguns where only my wife and I can reach.

Topak
10-03-2014, 12:01 PM
for HD, shot gun is the best solution.
I have used all four weapons in such situation ie, Hand Gun, An all time famous PB, a semi auto shotgun and pump action.
as my experience (totally mine you may differ) semi auto shotgun for a novice is best choice, as during such tense situation if you couldnt pump the gun correctly(with loud heart beat and trembling hands :) ) , shells will stuck and gun will give FTE and FTF.

Ashes
10-03-2014, 01:52 PM
for HD, shot gun is the best solution.
I have used all four weapons in such situation ie, Hand Gun, An all time famous PB, a semi auto shotgun and pump action.
as my experience (totally mine you may differ) semi auto shotgun for a novice is best choice, as during such tense situation if you couldn't pump the gun correctly(with loud heart beat and trembling hands :) ) , shells will stuck and gun will give FTE and FTF.

Topak Zama Kanoon Sirjee!! :D

May God protect you and yours from all sorts of evil and may you never again have to use a gun against invaders etc.

I respect your opininion and choice of shotgun for HD, and agree that it also depends on how familiar we are with firearms. A newly acquired handgun in the hands of a novice will surely be more of a liability rather than a means of protection.

I have experienced the surge of adrenaline and trembling hands and weak knees that come with a nasty situation and can fully understand how difficult it can be to even think clearly, let alone operate a firearm! :)

however, with proper practice - both dry and wet - I would rather opt for a handgun as a primary HD weapon, keeping the shottie as backup. (I just love my house and walls and furniture too much to do otherwise) ;)

shahroze
10-03-2014, 02:38 PM
For bunglows and bigger house a shotgun will suffice for apartments a pistol will do just fine. No ?

Ashes
10-03-2014, 03:12 PM
For bunglows and bigger house a shotgun will suffice for apartments a pistol will do just fine. No ?

No......... :)

shahroze
10-03-2014, 07:19 PM
why...... ?

Ashes
11-03-2014, 08:37 AM
why...... ?

well unless someone lives on a few acres and his house has only huge halls with no doorways and no corridors, then sure... otherwise, whether you live in a big house or a small apartment, the structure is more or less the same; human-size :)

So the size of the house hardly matters.

J.Durrani
13-04-2014, 09:45 PM
Double-barrel shotguns and pump-action are best for those who are not good at accuracy. So pump actions are always as a defenders.

D3AD!
19-08-2014, 01:54 PM
Which is the best for HD? .22 semiauto rifle or magzine semiauto shotgun?
brother the thing which you are used to and you can control easily , the thing with which you are compatible is the best wether shotgun or rifle it depends upon you
if you are a novice and are planing to buy a weapon for firs time then i will prefer rifle overshot gun for multiple reasons
1. rifles give less recoil
2. rifles have vast modifying options
3. most important rifles gives you more rang even .22lr in rifle can go beyond 200meter shot gun's shoot loose trajectory and lethality very quickly they can't make beyond 50meters hardly 60 if you are not using slugs, slugs can be effective to 150-200 not much sure about them since never fired one but they are pretty expensive to fire. i think 150/piece or like 200 somehting per piece.......

D3AD!
19-08-2014, 01:57 PM
Double-barrel shotguns and pump-action are best for those who are not good at accuracy. So pump actions are always as a defenders.

no brother we mistakenly assume that with shot gun we don't have to aim properly , but thats not true specialy at 15 - 25 yards i experianced it myself with buckshots and birdshots

Aquarius
19-08-2014, 11:54 PM
no brother we mistakenly assume that with shot gun we don't have to aim properly , but thats not true specialy at 15 - 25 yards i experianced it myself with buckshots and birdshots
Thats great @D3AD.. keep it up & keep your extraordinary knowledge coming.

hmd
20-08-2014, 12:29 AM
In my opinion I think a handgun with a light is a very good option and a shot gun for back up . I have personally defended my home more then couple of time with a pistol .

Fudgepacker
20-08-2014, 03:18 AM
Thats great @D3AD.. keep it up & keep your extraordinary knowledge coming.
Lmao! :bounce:
Bro, it's like I thought it, and then you typed it :lol:


Seriously though D3, if you haven't already, please read post #6530...
http://www.pakguns.com/showthread.php?3101-Price-and-Availbility-Thread/page327

FA226
20-08-2014, 04:50 AM
A shotgun with a flash light attached and loaded with buck shots and a hand gun as a side arm.and yes one has to aim a shot gun properly if the distance is less then 15yards but for 15 to 25 yards it gives you a good spread the spread is roughly 1" per yard.

D3AD!
20-08-2014, 03:15 PM
Thats great @D3AD.. keep it up & keep your extraordinary knowledge coming.

brother if something is wrong with my opinion then why don't you correct it simply and make it less complex for all of us....

1stranger
20-08-2014, 03:18 PM
brother if something is wrong with my opinion then why don't you correct it simply and make it less complex for all of us....

Agreed brother +1!!!!!!

D3AD!
20-08-2014, 03:18 PM
Lmao! :bounce:
Bro, it's like I thought it, and then you typed it :lol:


Seriously though D3, if you haven't already, please read post #6530...
http://www.pakguns.com/showthread.php?3101-Price-and-Availbility-Thread/page327

And Fudgepacker bro seriously i thought you were a nice guy. But now i think that i need to Re-think

D3AD!
20-08-2014, 03:21 PM
Agreed brother +1!!!!!!

thank you brother

Asd1976
20-08-2014, 03:30 PM
no brother we mistakenly assume that with shot gun we don't have to aim properly , but thats not true specialy at 15 - 25 yards i experianced it myself with buckshots and birdshots

D3AD sounds quite logical...........
seems like you have some great experience with guns,
would you mind sharing some wiht us, especually for the benift of novices like me, such which kind of guns you have owned/used, which one is you fav and why.

Imtiaz Shah
20-08-2014, 04:59 PM
I have personally defended my home more then couple of time with a pistol .
Change residence Sir ! I shudder to think of possibility of even one home invasion !

ajmal virk
20-08-2014, 05:39 PM
I will always prefer a double barrel shotgun that too with timmed barrels because second fire option of double is awesome no issue of pumping etc.

D3AD!
20-08-2014, 06:57 PM
D3AD sounds quite logical...........
seems like you have some great experience with guns,
would you mind sharing some wiht us, especually for the benift of novices like me, such which kind of guns you have owned/used, which one is you fav and why.

bro personaly i owned nothing my grandpa left me a vintage shotgun i experianced my father's cz75 , we have a 7mm hunting rifle at home a gift to my pa a wasted Norinco 7.62x25 just, i usually go out with my friends at one of my friend's farm house and that is my academy my world where i experiace there rifles and they use ours kind of sharing u say, this is from where i got all what i share here, i have no special trainers no particular training just observance and guide from my friends and thats it. my favrouit list is too big to post here, like all gun enthusists but what i love extremly are Macmillian Tac -300 or 7mm versions and HK417
how ever currently i have some money and i am thinking of buying some fancy 7.62x25 pistol and a .223 rifle i am confused on this bcz i hvnt decided it yet wether to go for AR-platform or AK personaly i am leaning towards AK till now for multiple reasons thats totally another topic and considoring molot vepr in .223, unfortunatly i am having some issues with my ears and currently for temporary time i have giveup on shooting but i will be back when i will get some good hearing protection and proper shooting gogles,
i will advice all nvoices here that Guns are not something funny always play safe don't risk your and other people life and go out and practice smthing, but with proper protection as health concerns are always first , get yourself a hearing protection and some nice shooting gogles rather than buying a gun first your ears and eyes are not going to return once lost... on other hand you will have whole life for learning guns, and if somebody is extra health concerning he can also buy "Kevlar gloves" for himself this can protect his hands in case of gun "Kaboom" kaboom is a lay man's word used to define an accidential gun blast due to various reasons related to Gun failures and inapproprate ammo,
thats all my brother,,,,

FA226
20-08-2014, 06:59 PM
for hd i use vepr 12 with 3 mags full of sg and a cz sp01 phanton with 4 extra mags as back up weapon.

hmd
20-08-2014, 07:31 PM
Change residence Sir ! I shudder to think of possibility of even one home invasion !
Hahaha yeah bro already did that long time back .

hmd
20-08-2014, 07:36 PM
for hd i use vepr 12 with 3 mags full of sg and a cz sp01 phanton with 4 extra mags as back up weapon.
This is perfect I also have the same setup instead of Vepr I have Beneli Tactical with SG .

seeker
20-08-2014, 08:26 PM
For bunglows and bigger house a shotgun will suffice for apartments a pistol will do just fine. No ?

yes and no... Actually of all the expert members here ,only u had it right but let me phrase it correctly for you .. for out of the living space(meaning in open air like roof .garden or balcony ) in bunglows ,bigger homes and even in small apartments a shotgun is best of the best even better than an ak47:) ,, but for inside the house ,in closed rooms its worst than a knife ,actually a knife is better than a shotgun inside the house ,,,, for inside the house the best option is a bullpup in .22lr rifle with very very good quality hallow point bullets ,,, 2nd and last option is any 9mm pistol and not a bit more ........ now i know most of the so called experts here will tell you other wise and give there reasons here ,but let me assure you what i said is practical and very true and not based on information from internet and not even from modern warfare game :) why a shotgun is a bad in side the house ,,, caz the minute u fire it inside it causes the flash bang effect ,the shorter the barrel the louder the band and faster u drop down like a fly ... and u need to be on ur feet to defend ur home .. regards and apologies in advance from key board warriors.....

seeker
20-08-2014, 08:30 PM
Change residence Sir ! I shudder to think of possibility of even one home invasion !

May Allah (swt) save of all from such a time and keep us and our loved one's safe .. ameen

Surg.Ray
20-08-2014, 08:50 PM
bro personaly i owned nothing my grandpa left me a vintage shotgun i experianced my father's cz75 , we have a 7mm hunting rifle at home a gift to my pa a wasted Norinco 7.62x25 just, i usually go out with my friends at one of my friend's farm house and that is my academy my world where i experiace there rifles and they use ours kind of sharing u say, this is from where i got all what i share here, i have no special trainers no particular training just observance and guide from my friends and thats it. my favrouit list is too big to post here, like all gun enthusists but what i love extremly are Macmillian Tac -300 or 7mm versions and HK417
how ever currently i have some money and i am thinking of buying some fancy 7.62x25 pistol and a .223 rifle i am confused on this bcz i hvnt decided it yet wether to go for AR-platform or AK personaly i am leaning towards AK till now for multiple reasons thats totally another topic and considoring molot vepr in .223, unfortunatly i am having some issues with my ears and currently for temporary time i have giveup on shooting but i will be back when i will get some good hearing protection and proper shooting gogles,
i will advice all nvoices here that Guns are not something funny always play safe don't risk your and other people life and go out and practice smthing, but with proper protection as health concerns are always first , get yourself a hearing protection and some nice shooting gogles rather than buying a gun first your ears and eyes are not going to return once lost... on other hand you will have whole life for learning guns, and if somebody is extra health concerning he can also buy "Kevlar gloves" for himself this can protect his hands in case of gun "Kaboom" kaboom is a lay man's word used to define an accidential gun blast due to various reasons related to Gun failures and inapproprate ammo,
thats all my brother,,,,

Sage advice D3AD!, you're doing good!

FA226
20-08-2014, 09:05 PM
This is perfect I also have the same setup instead of Vepr I have Beneli Tactical with SG .

Bro beneli and phantom is good setup as well.

hmd
20-08-2014, 10:59 PM
Bro beneli and phantom is good setup as well.
Thanks bro I love pump action and I am good with it but if ever I want to buy a semi auto shotgun it will be Vepr or Beneli M4 .