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View Full Version : Which is best? 30-06 or 7*57 (7mm)



Kashif Baig
01-08-2010, 06:22 AM
I have purchased a S&W Model 1500 in 30-06. Some of my friends have advised me to go for 7mm instead of 30-06 as there is only a marginal difference in range and velocity but ammo of 7mm is cheaper than 30-06.

Any expert opinion about ballistics of both calibers along-with comparison of different ammos (grains/velocities and prices)

Thank you in anticipation.:)

bigbore
01-08-2010, 09:06 AM
my vote for 30-06, its a good long range shooting cartridge with alot of knocking power aswell it is the most popular and ideal caliber for hunting, i suggest you stick with it.:)

Turumti
01-08-2010, 10:29 AM
Good advice. Stick with the 30-06. Rifles arent usually shot as much as shotguns, so cost of ammo is not such a big factor in rifle choice. Do you have any ammo for this weapon? If so what make and what grain?

Apalo
01-08-2010, 10:56 AM
forgive me for my ignorance but can some one tell me about the 30-60, its new for me :|

Skeeter60
01-08-2010, 11:06 AM
I have purchased a S&W Model 1500 in 30-06. Some of my friends have advised me to go for 7mm instead of 30-06 as there is only a marginal difference in range and velocity but ammo of 7mm is cheaper than 30-06.

Any expert opinion about ballistics of both calibers along-with comparison of different ammos (grains/velocities and prices)

Thank you in anticipation.:)

While the 7x57 is a fine cartridge it can not be compared with the 30-06. The difference is not marginal but colossal.
If you are using Factory Ammo following is the comparison

7mm Mauser or 7x57 30-06


150 gr bullet Muzzle Velocity 2690 150 gr bullet MV = 2990

175 gr MV 2440 180 gr MV = 2800

139 gr Light Magnum 2970 150 gr Light Magnum MV = 3100 (This ammo for is available sometimes but not regularly in Pakistan.)

When handloaded the 30-06 takes a lead by another 100 to 150 feet per second easily,

The above figures plus, plus the energy and trajectory figures will tell you that the 30-06 is a very powerful cartridge.

The 7mm when hand loaded with good bullets is a a very good caliber, but the 30-06 does same with a lot more authority. The 30-06 is more effective on Himalayan Ibex, Markhore, Nil Gai and big Boars out to 400 yds with a variety of wieghts, shapes and types of bullets no other caliber can boast. Also military surplus ammo is cheaply available for target shooting or boars etc.
At longer ranges and when animals are big the obvious choice is the 30-06
By the way the 7x57 is the father of the 30-06 which was developed around the parent cases by elongating it by 6 mm and increasing bullet dia from 284 to .308 inches.

Silent killerr
01-08-2010, 11:42 AM
Skeeter sir, very well explained

AK47
01-08-2010, 12:09 PM
forgive me for my ignorance but can some one tell me about the 30-60, its new for me :|


@Apalo............Some further 40Kms Northward few days back, would have given you this beauty in your hands! ;)

http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3102


@Kashif Baig bro........As suggested rightly by Sir Skeeter, with regards to ballistics, stick to the 30-06 dear!

As regards ammo, well, rightly said by someone, this type of ammo is rarely used, so never mind the occasional expense.

For your info, let me tell you, brand new, fresh and shiny golden Serbian Prvi Partizan rounds available in Lahore @ 250-275 per round, no need any longer to stick to the pre/post World-War II rounds any longer! :cool:

Ahmed Sultan
01-08-2010, 12:55 PM
Some of my friends have advised me to go for 7mm instead of 30-06 as there is only a marginal difference in range and velocity but ammo of 7mm is cheaper than 30-06.

Sir Skeeter has very rightly stated the facts about 30-06 & 7mm. Additionally, 30-06 is an ideal choice for African Plains Game and North American game, since it can carry heavier bullets at those velocity which is effective against larger game like Eland, Waterbuck, Elk and Moose.

However, if you do want to change your 30-06, consider 7MM Rem Mag or .300 Win Mag both these cartridges will out perform a 30-06 with a 150 gr bullet in factory ammo with a flater trajectory and a big enough punch for all the game present here in Pakistan.

PUNJTANI5
01-08-2010, 12:55 PM
dear bhaiyya KB
30-06 (7.62mm x 63mm) is the american ctg (63mm ctg length)
7mm and 8mm X 57 mm are german ctgs (57mmctg length)
are are battle tested military rounds

30-06 packs a better punch and has but a few yards (50 -100) more effective range
the trajectory is same or better tahn 7mm
basically there is no comparison between 30-06 and 7mm or 8mm
30-06 is much better
the only drawback is expensive bullet 250-350rupees
but only original ammo is present unlike 7mm or 8mm reloaded rounds

7mm and 8mm are the other hunting rounds
in this 8mm is good for large game animals like bulls and boars
and 7mm is good for medium animals like deer, goat, sheep etc

further i must add
all these ctgs have the same dia cartrudge case with different length
and if a hand loader has proper tools he can make 7mmx57 ctgs from 30-06 ctgs by trimming the case length

i hope u have got the idea

so over all MANY CONGRATULATIONS FOR YOUR RIFLE
plz post model and specs and price at which u bought the rifle

MIdreesTaj
01-08-2010, 01:22 PM
If we leave aside hand loading still the 30-06 is better than 7x57mm in 140grain and higher category(heavier bullets) under commercial loadings. Reason being 30-06 case having greater H2O capacity than 7x57mm and the 7mm Mauser is loaded to lower specs commercially.

Commercially 7x57mm is known to loaded with lower specs infact otherwise it is relatively very close to 30-06 in medium and lighter weight bullets. Case can be loaded to 56K Psi as compared to 58k Psi capacity of 30-06 case. The reason for loading 7x57mm at a lower max pressures is still in use old weaker actions such as Mauser 93 & 95 actions around the world.

The stronger actions such as Mauser 98 type rifles can withstand the max out pressures of handloaded 7x57mm to 56K Psi easily. The best example for that is same 57mm casing loaded with 7.92mm bullet known to us as 8mm Mauser. Later development of this 8mm Mauser cartridge outside Mauser made it ballistically match the 30-06 loads when used in strong actions such as Mauser 98.

It depends alot on type of action being used or under service for a cartridge to max out performance wise.

ARlover
01-08-2010, 01:43 PM
brother go for 7mm brno zkk600:)

PUNJTANI5
01-08-2010, 02:06 PM
here are some images for information

http://s4.postimage.org/9zqh0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV9zqh0)


http://s1.postimage.org/i4nQi.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxi4nQi)


http://s3.postimage.org/nQGP9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqnQGP9)


http://s4.postimage.org/9zMJi.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV9zMJi)


http://s1.postimage.org/i4vjJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxi4vjJ)


http://s1.postimage.org/i4Fii.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxi4Fii)

PUNJTANI5
01-08-2010, 02:28 PM
some more images for information

http://s1.postimage.org/i4PgS.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxi4PgS)


http://s3.postimage.org/nRjJr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqnRjJr)



http://s2.postimage.org/L_MqS.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsL_MqS)


http://s1.postimage.org/i67AA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxi67AA)


http://s2.postimage.org/L_YUA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsL_YUA)


http://s3.postimage.org/nTaY9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqnTaY9)


http://s2.postimage.org/M0LNr.gif (http://www.postimage.org/)


http://s1.postimage.org/i6u1S.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxi6u1S)

PUNJTANI5
01-08-2010, 02:34 PM
so
30-06 is very good rifle

better than even 7mm or 8mm
donot pay a head what others say
u have made a very good purchase
stick to it
surplus PoF ammo is also available as the same calliber weapon (M1 Garand) is still in reserve

and i ave already prooved it in above thread posts

Turumti
01-08-2010, 02:34 PM
Some of my friends have advised me to go for 7mm instead of 30-06 as there is only a marginal difference in range and velocity but ammo of 7mm is cheaper than 30-06.

Sir Skeeter has very rightly stated the facts about 30-06 & 7mm. Additionally, 30-06 is an ideal choice for African Plains Game and North American game, since it can carry heavier bullets at those velocity which is effective against larger game like Eland, Waterbuck, Elk and Moose.

However, if you do want to change your 30-06, consider 7MM Rem Mag or .300 Win Mag both these cartridges will out perform a 30-06 with a 150 gr bullet in factory ammo with a flater trajectory and a big enough punch for all the game present here in Pakistan.


Ahmad Sahab,

While you are spot on about the ballistics of the 7mm Rem Mag and the 300 Win Mag. I would still favour the 30-06 for the reason, that in the case of this particular shooter, Mr. Kashif Baig, he seems to be a new comer to the rifle scene. So a mild recoiling calibre such as the 30-06 or even the 7mm would be a better choice for him than any of the magnum calibres. Quite often people who start shooting heavy recoiling rifles, tend to develop the habit of flinching when squeezing the trigger, and that unless nipped in the bud, gets progressively worse with the passage of time, and ultimately becomes second nature, and that leads to consistently poor performance both at the range and in the field.

Secondly, there is plenty of factory loaded military surplus ammo available for the 30-06, and in a well made bolt action such ammo is safe to shoot and cheap too. 7x57 is often loaded locally and unscrupulous dealers often palm it off as factory loaded ammo to unsuspecting buyers. With such ammo not only is there a lot of variation in muzzle velocity, and consequently down range trajectory, point of impact and energy between shots, but also the risk of getting a bullet stuck in the barrel if the powder charge is too low, or worse still the risk of a blown up rifle and grievous personal injury if the powder charge is too high.

Thirdly, 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag factory loads coast at least twice as much as factory loaded 30-06 rounds, and about ten times more expensive than 30-06 military surplus ammo. So practice, which makes many a man perfect, becomes that much more expensive with either of these magnum calibre or with any other magnum calibre for that matter.

So while, the 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag, are good choices for the experienced and regular rifle shooter and big game hunter, they might be too much gun for the beginner.

Kashif Baig
01-08-2010, 03:19 PM
I really appriciate all of you for your generous support in providing me such rich info about 30-06,especially Sir Skeeter who have given comparisons of MVs and Mr.Idrees, Mr. Sultan and Punjatani5.

I intend to try different factory loads as well as some handloads and I guess SMITH AND WESSON'S Action although not better than Mauser but can handle both of them.

Dear AK47, can you give the name of the dealer in Lahore who is having these Serbian Bullets.

Take Care.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I HAVE HUNTED ALMOST EVERYDAY OF MY LIFE, THE REST HAVE BEEN WASTED" a qoute from an old hunter.

ARlover
01-08-2010, 04:04 PM
Kashif Baig brother dealer name para find thair info in dealer review :cool:

AK47
01-08-2010, 04:07 PM
@Kashif Baig...............Bro, PARA is the place. Just in any case they're short of stock, ask them to list you up, so you can be contacted on receipt. Most hunters do so, around hunting season, yet I believe PARA has enough stock, anyhow. :)

Ahmed Sultan
01-08-2010, 04:14 PM
I would still favour the 30-06 for the reason

Turumti Sb, you have mentioned some valid points but I will answer why I suggested 7MM Rem Mag or .300 Win Mag.



in the case of this particular shooter, Mr. Kashif Baig, he seems to be a new comer to the rifle scene. So a mild recoiling calibre such as the 30-06 or even the 7mm would be a better choice for him than any of the magnum calibres.

It is only your assumption that Mr.Kashif Baig is a new comer to the rifle scene. In fact, he has stated that he has already purchased a 30-06 and in all fairness if he has purchased the weapon he must be shooting it as well, hence must be accustomed to its recoil, which is not all that different from 7mm Mag or the .300 Mag.



7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag factory loads coast at least twice as much as factory loaded 30-06 rounds, and about ten times more expensive than 30-06 military surplus ammo.

I never said that 7mm Rem Mag or .300 Win Mag will be cheaper, they are just better performing caliber specially for demanding mountain game available in Pakistan.


So while, the 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag, are good choices for the experienced and regular rifle shooter and big game hunter, they might be too much gun for the beginner.

Again it is your assumption that Mr. Baig is a beginner, this might be the case but he has not mentioned this anywhere. If he is a beginner then I will suggest a .22 to start with and then to the bigger calibers.

30-06 if fine and will do all the job that can be required while hunting in Pakistan but if some one wants to change his 30-06 then instead of 7mm ordinary the 7mm Mag or .300 Win Mag are worth considering.

Haider Shah
01-08-2010, 10:47 PM
Lot of information has been poured in favouring 30-06, just to add on that due to punch , ballistics, efficiency n hit prbability result it was adopted for snipers in great World Wars.
Any member holding original M-1.30, how do they get the clip for this rifle, any one want to share.

Skeeter60
02-08-2010, 12:04 AM
Lot of information has been poured in favouring 30-06, just to add on that due to punch , ballistics, efficiency n hit prbability result it was adopted for snipers in great World Wars.
Any member holding original M-1.30, how do they get the clip for this rifle, any one want to share.

You will find some clips in Darra Adam Khel. This was the biggest glitch with the good old M1 Garrand, one had to load with the 8 rd clips, the ammo used to come packed in clips which we used to throw away after firing.
These rifles have been converted to 8mms and are very dangerous to fire in 8mm

Turumti
02-08-2010, 02:04 AM
Ahmad,

Im sure you are vastly experienced with rifles, much more so than myself and most other folks here, and I dont mean to get into a typical "my-calibre-is-better-than-yours" match, but my post was written keeping in mind the average Pakistani hunter, who is often not the most privileged of individuals and often does not have very deep pockets.

If money, and the availability of arms and ammunition were not an object, then I would prefer a custom made 338 Lapua Magnum with a Schmidt and Bender top of the line 30mm scope and about 1000 handloaded rounds. That would surely be gun enough for all types of game, in either hill or plain. But then, such is the stuff dreams are made of.

Turumti
02-08-2010, 02:22 AM
I really appriciate all of you for your generous support in providing me such rich info about 30-06,especially Sir Skeeter who have given comparisons of MVs and Mr.Idrees, Mr. Sultan and Punjatani5.

I intend to try different factory loads as well as some handloads and I guess SMITH AND WESSON'S Action although not better than Mauser but can handle both of them.

Dear AK47, can you give the name of the dealer in Lahore who is having these Serbian Bullets.

Take Care.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I HAVE HUNTED ALMOST EVERYDAY OF MY LIFE, THE REST HAVE BEEN WASTED" a qoute from an old hunter.

Dear KB,

The S&W 1500 rifle that you have was probably made in Japan by HOWA. Check this out. http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/guns/171046-smith-wesson-1500-rifle.html

ARlover
02-08-2010, 02:33 AM
new turn in story made in japan

psychiatrist-1
02-08-2010, 05:26 AM
Few words from me also. I do n't how I missed out this forum? I have both .3006 Remengton and .338 Bicentenial Ruger. I have hunted most of my life. Caliber .338 is for big dangerous game like Polor and Kodiak Bears. Otherwise, .3006 is sufficient all around but for big game you want caliber .300 or above. Rifle .338 will stop Kodiak Grizzley but .3006 will go through. Althogh, I never killed big bear, but had fired .338 . I do not like its powerful kick , which slided me back about 3 feets. But, if the time comes, I would like to face big Bear with .338 and not with .3006. So, your caliber depends upon your choice of game you want to hunt.
We were talking about Grand M-1. Well, Mine is original M-1 it fires .3006 round, 8 rounds clips. When the last bullet is spent the dove tail clip come out flying with it. It is a fascinating rifle, invented by George Garand under espouse of General Patton. Here is the pictures: On the left is ..
.3006 left hand bolt, then on the right is……familiar M-1 to any blind hunter. In the middle is mini 14, is a junk rifle .
There is no correlation between USA and Pakistan about availability of Guns and Ammo for any weapons. There was a time when one can order any fire Arms out of Catalogue by mail. But not any more, however, I can still order ammo by mail and it happens to be cheaper.
http://s2.postimage.org/OgbxJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsOgbxJ)

psychiatrist-1
02-08-2010, 05:32 AM
I did n't know S&W ever produced .3006 caliber. Yes, .3006 is an old sniper rifle but later .308 was used in US army and still is prefered and being used.

Skeeter60
02-08-2010, 08:32 AM
Smith & Wesson did make Rifles in popular cals during the 80s in Japan, these were made by Howa

Ahmed Sultan
02-08-2010, 10:04 AM
Turumti Sb, you have again made valid points!


I dont mean to get into a typical "my-calibre-is-better-than-yours" match
I don't know which is your caliber but non of the calibers in question are my caliber. As I use a .308 for my mountain and local hunting and for Africa I prefer a .375 H&H Mag. But yes I have extensively used rifle in all calibers in question. So it is not about my or your caliber, it is just about different performance of different calibers.




my post was written keeping in mind the average Pakistani hunter, who is often not the most privileged of individuals and often does not have very deep pockets.
Valid point but no relevance to the performance merit of different calibers.



If money, and the availability of arms and ammunition were not an object, then I would prefer a custom made 338 Lapua Magnum with a Schmidt and Bender top of the line 30mm scope and about 1000 handloaded rounds. That would surely be gun enough for all types of game, in either hill or plain. But then, such is the stuff dreams are made of.
.338 Lapua is a good sniper's caliber but in terms of hunting it is not popular at all, so if you do ever get in a situation as stated above i.e. money no problem for you, order a .338 Win Mag, a proven all rounder and also don't forget me for your hunting trips. :)

Haider Shah
02-08-2010, 10:59 PM
@Psychiatrist-1
Sir M1.30 Garand is great amongst your collection, due to apperture sights how is the accuracy at 150 yards + (though for close quarter battle later M 30 carbines were incorporated which even produced wonderful results). Just for curiosity I am wondering for the tags slightly vissible behind triger guard ?
Mini 14 is stevens or any other made , why its being labelled as a waste , regards

AAHunter
02-08-2010, 11:13 PM
can anyone can update the Price of S&W Model 1500 in 30-06 here plz and if someone want to buy it where they r available

Birdshooter007
02-08-2010, 11:27 PM
Bro stick to 30.06

PUNJTANI5
02-08-2010, 11:54 PM
Few words from me also. I do n't how I missed out this forum? I have both .3006 Remengton and .338 Bicentenial Ruger. I have hunted most of my life. Caliber .338 is for big dangerous game like Polor and Kodiak Bears. Otherwise, .3006 is sufficient all around but for big game you want caliber .300 or above. Rifle .338 will stop Kodiak Grizzley but .3006 will go through. Althogh, I never killed big bear, but had fired .338 . I do not like its powerful kick , which slided me back about 3 feets. But, if the time comes, I would like to face big Bear with .338 and not with .3006. So, your caliber depends upon your choice of game you want to hunt.
We were talking about Grand M-1. Well, Mine is original M-1 it fires .3006 round, 8 rounds clips. When the last bullet is spent the dove tail clip come out flying with it. It is a fascinating rifle, invented by George Garand under espouse of General Patton. Here is the pictures: On the left is ..
.3006 left hand bolt, then on the right is……familiar M-1 to any blind hunter. In the middle is mini 14, is a junk rifle .
There is no correlation between USA and Pakistan about availability of Guns and Ammo for any weapons. There was a time when one can order any fire Arms out of Catalogue by mail. But not any more, however, I can still order ammo by mail and it happens to be cheaper.
http://s2.postimage.org/OgbxJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsOgbxJ)


P-1 bhaiyya
why is your M1 garand smaller in size than standard

did u get it shortened yourself or is it factory fitted by default model

what ammo does it feed 30-06 or 8mmx57 or .308

psychiatrist-1
04-08-2010, 12:19 AM
Here is your answers:Tags were identification attatched by my gun repair friend. He took apart and beeded the grooves for acuuracey. Beeding is very popular in USA, a kind of rasin that he instilled, then put the rifle back. So I left them as it is.
Yes, the M- 1 Stock was shorten for the length of my arm. Otherwise, it was too big for me. I am 5 Ft tall. and weigh 140 Lbs.
My M-1 is chambered for .3006, i do not know the other calibers. I thought that was the only caliber M-1 had.
At 150 yards, the M-1 is very accurate.
Mini 14 have many problems: 1) frequently Jams, 2) It is not accurate,3) It is light weight thus in wind it swings and hardly I can not hit the target even with the scope. There is ejection problem too. My Gun smith tried to improve but he says, I wasted my money.

ChocTalpur
04-08-2010, 12:52 AM
@ Kashif Baig.

Well, what we usually do on the forums is that we take advice first, and then purchase the weapon. In your case, you've already purchased one :P . And since 30-06 is an all rounder cal. for almost any kind of game, so there's no point giving it away for anything at all. Enjoy Shooting.

Apalo
04-08-2010, 07:06 AM
I have purchased a S&W Model 1500 in 30-06. Some of my friends have advised me to go for 7mm instead of 30-06 as there is only a marginal difference in range and velocity but ammo of 7mm is cheaper than 30-06.

Any expert opinion about ballistics of both calibers along-with comparison of different ammos (grains/velocities and prices)

Thank you in anticipation.:)
used it and if you are satisfied than there is no issue. :)

mhrehman
04-08-2010, 06:44 PM
Sir my opinion is 30-06, yeah ammo is expensive, but you will get almost an allrounder, for both short, medium and long ranges.