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Gangster
09-03-2009, 03:20 PM
Hi all,

I am interested in having a 12 gauge (pump action) shotgun basically for protection, hence i was looking at the price grid on the site. As i have read several threads here regarding best shotguns where people have highly recommended Viper shotgun so i was a bit confused on the following two:

What is the difference between these two??

2). Viper/Cobra (Turkish) Pump Action
4). Viper (Turkish)

Also I would like to know of the one given below, what would be a good buy out of these three??

3). Maverick/Mossberg (U.S.A) Pump Action

Abbas
09-03-2009, 03:25 PM
The first two are the same thing. The 3rd option is as good if not better than the first two.

Btw for everyone's general information. Don't go for the Maverick just because of it's made in U.S.A label, what Mossberg does is that they have a factory right next to the border in Mexico and another one on the U.S side of the border. 90 % of manufacturing is done in Mexico by Mexcian labor and the almost finished but disassembled product is moved to the other factory in the U.S which btw is 40 Km's away and assembled there and it earns the Made in U.S.A stamp.

Not to say it's not a good product because it is decent for a cheap shotgun but the Made in U.S.A is mostly a marketing gimmick.

Acciprone
09-03-2009, 03:25 PM
All of the turkish shotguns are made by the same company but marketed under different names. Hastan Escort/ Germinica/ Viper/
Volcanic. You can get them in either a pump or semi auto.

If you need a pump then u could consider the Maverick roughly cost about 35-40 in pump made in USA which would good for self defense.

Gangster
09-03-2009, 03:51 PM
Thank you both for the valuable advice.

@ Abbas, I was literally going after the Made in USA tag for that reason also when i checked it on the site given.. it gave a better look than the turkish ones.
Secondly like you said that both are the same, whereas the price grid shows a difference in its price. Is it because of a difference in quality? or something else?

@ Acciprone, this is a bit confusing. How would one ask for a turkish shotgun when it is with different names?

Abbas
09-03-2009, 04:01 PM
I think the Maverick should be 40 K and the Turkish offerings would be around 30-40 K.

Get the Maverick it's decent enough to have as a first shotgun.

Gangster
09-03-2009, 04:03 PM
Okay!
Thank you for your time and advice.

Balazona
09-03-2009, 04:04 PM
Gangster,try to find Hatsan Escort Aimguard shotgun.it is availble is Lahore for 26K.after handling this turkish shotgun u will forget the Maverick 88.

TAREEN
09-03-2009, 04:25 PM
Balazona is right. And the price difference is also enough to be considered.

Abbas
09-03-2009, 04:26 PM
Btw Balazona did you find your Turkish shotgun ?? As I remember you telling me at the range that new stock was coming in ?

Balazona
09-03-2009, 04:30 PM
PARA couldnt get their stock yet.but this Hatsan Escort Aimguard shotgun is available at National traders in the same plaza where PARA is located.and this shotgun has Chrome lined barrel.fit and finish is superb.

Gangster
09-03-2009, 04:59 PM
Thank you all for your valuable input.
If its available in Lahore, do i have a chance of finding it in Karachi? I hope so.

Gangster
09-03-2009, 05:04 PM
Btw Hatsan Escort Aimguard shotgun is made in ??

Acciprone
09-03-2009, 06:00 PM
@ Acciprone, this is a bit confusing. How would one ask for a turkish shotgun when it is with different names?


well not really gangster.. you can give these turkish companies order for about 1000+ shotguns and tell them to stamp them gangster + they will do that for u .. and you can sell the same gun.. in your name.. :) if u do decide to that give me one at cost.

Gangster
09-03-2009, 07:44 PM
Hmmmm thats a really good idea!!
But Acciprone unfortunately I would not be having enuff time for all this,, so incase you plan to exercise the plan dont forget to get me a piece ;)

Shariq
11-05-2009, 11:36 PM
Gangster,try to find Hatsan Escort Aimguard shotgun.it is availble is Lahore for 26K.after handling this turkish shotgun u will forget the Maverick 88.
Balzy Not practicing what u r preaching ????? ;)

12GAUGE
12-05-2009, 02:20 AM
AoA everybody,

From purely protection stand point, my order of preference would be:

1. Mossberg 590A1
2. Mossberg Persuader
3. Mossberg Maverick
3. Daudsons Shooter Pump Action shotgun (a mossberg 590 clone)


From the list, u can see that I'm basically a Mossberg design fan. there are few things that i believe are best in a mossberg weapon system.

1. Cartridge Elevator stays folded (out of the way) while loading the gun, a very cruicial advantage while loading the magazine tube during a firefight. same thing also helps in loading the magazine in aimed position.

2. double cartridge extractors: very dependable, will snatch any struck cartridge out of the chamber. imagine yourself in a hostile situation with an evil cartridge struck in the chamber.

3. lose tolerances in the action and bolt assembly: ok! i'll admit that it causes the whole gun to rattle but its very important as it increases the reliability of the whole weapon system. it compromises on the accuracy part, but we are talking about a shotgun so accuracy is secondary thing.

4. Tang safety: perfect for safety-on, safety-off routine. in any hostile situation, this kinda small stuff matters alot.

5. two+long action bars: absolute must if you want a highly reliable action that minimizes feeding problems. it also minimized short chucking, any pump guy knows what a menace short chucking is and how it plagues the hearts of men (my shakespeare side just woke up). down boy! go back to sleep.

6. serrated forearm: another absolute must if u want to keep your sweaty grip on the forearm specially when huge amounts of adrenaline is pumping through your veins.

7. ghost ring sights: they are considered a must for home defense, specially usefull if your into slugs, very important for quick target acquisition, however i dont like them, I'm too used to a bead sight now that my mind gets confused when peeping through the ghost sights. conventional rifle sights will do too.

8. tactical configuration of the forearm. you will notice that mossberg's forearm extends a bit far out. this aids in fighthing and prevents the gun from being snatched from the owner's hands. however this feature is a huge turn-off in hunting as it kinda fatigues the left arm pretty easily. (i'm assuming the shooter is right handed).

9. Mossberg's can be tricked out to a degree that you wont even be able to recognize it after installing after-market accessories such as:

1. butt-stock side saddle (my personal favorite, currently using/installed)
2. receiver mounted shotshell holder
3. tactical lights: a must have, my next project
4. heatshield: Rambo looking but i dont see a point
5. fiberoptic sight for plain barrels (my personal favorite, currently installed, aids in target acquisition in low light conditions, plus it is freakishly scary on a plain barrel.)
6. tactical pistol grip with stock: now this is important, my next project ;)

hope it helps.

Regards.

Enigmatic Desires
12-05-2009, 03:53 AM
12 Guage.. where were u 2 weeks back when I was trudging all over the city .. tryin to figure out which shotgun to buy :(

Balazona
12-05-2009, 06:53 AM
@12 gauge
r those GRS for Mossberg M500 available in market.what is the price?

12GAUGE
12-05-2009, 11:14 AM
@12 gauge
r those GRS for Mossberg M500 available in market.what is the price?

No Sir! GRS are not available in the Pakistani market, u'll have to order them off the internet, but its quiet easy. opt for the ones which require gun smiths. its quiet easy, just a small solder on the barrel for the front sight and two drills and taps on the receiver for the ghost ring. simple.

like i said: i personally dont like them, i'm too used to a bead sight, u can order plain barrel fiberoptic bead like i did. no gunsmith required, it just snaps on.


about prices: its been a while i've been to the market so i'm totally out dated on prices thingy.

Regards.

m1carbine
12-05-2009, 11:25 AM
Dear 12Gauge,whats your experiance regarding sawed-off shotguns?plz share?

Aamar
12-05-2009, 11:25 AM
@ 12 Gauge: can u please put up a pic of ur Mossberg with the accessories :)

12GAUGE
12-05-2009, 11:29 AM
sorry sir, mine is not a maverick, its a Mossberg 590 clone made by Daudsons.

my modifications are:

1. permanently attached buttstock side saddle
2. Hiviz fiber optic sights


Dear 12Gauge,whats your experiance regarding sawed-off shotguns?plz share?

well, to be honest i dont have much of an experience in sawn off type shotguns but my cousin has one and i've fired it a couple of times. his is a 12gauge desi double barrel which was converted into a sawn off. my advise: stay away, total crap. very loud noise and too much muzzle blast and there is not enough pressure built-up for any significant damage to the assailant. and recoil is bruises the hand pretty badly. that is why it is almost used exclusively with bird shots. its reputation as a man-slayer is just hollywood work.

a practicality note: barrels below 18 inches do not produce a significant amount of pressure. however since the introduction of news platic wads and new gunpowders, minimum barrel lengths have been reduced to 14 inches, any lower and you are significantly lowering the performance of the shotgun. however i feel that a 10 inch barrel minimum is a must and any lower than a 10 inch barrel will most likely cause you to go:

1. deaf by loud noise
2. blind from huge muzzle blast
3. burn you hands by the heat blast
4. aching wrist: from heavy recoil

my advise to the hollywood fans, go for the 14inch cruiser pump-action, stay away from sawn-offs, dangerous hollywood gimmicks.

legal note: somebody told me, any shotgun with barrel length less than 14inch comes under PB. and any shotgun with total length of ummm....(execuse me i forgot) is also PB.

Regards.

Balazona
12-05-2009, 03:51 PM
12 gauge is our new shotgun Guru. :)
He has very extensive research in shotguns.keep it up buddy.

Acciprone
12-05-2009, 04:01 PM
@12 guage i am also looking for those neon sights for my shotgun any idea their cost and from where i need it for the hatsan escort

m1carbine
12-05-2009, 04:10 PM
so the summary is that sawed-off shortguns is just a holly wood chrisma,practically they have no worth.Plz correct me if i am wrong.

Hamid
12-05-2009, 04:54 PM
I think the reason for those sawed off shotguns' existence in the movies is tendency of showing a gun which is practical, avialable, affordable and looks classy. Meanwhile, its utility is ignored.

12GAUGE
12-05-2009, 05:02 PM
you can order "hiviz" fiberoptic shotguns sight off the internet. easily available and quiet inexpensive too. they are redicolously priced here. christmass special $12 for four color set, here in pakistan one color sight for 3-4K.

my recommendation: buy off internet. alot cheaper, and they are so light weight, my shipping charges were around 7-8 dollars. so i ordered three sights. i figured that since i'm paying for the minimum shipping charges i might as well order more as long as i dont exceed the weight limit. this divides the shipping charges evenly amongst three sights.


and yes! sawn-off should be left at hollywood only, i dont see any practicality in them.

Regards.

Regards.

Acciprone
12-05-2009, 05:28 PM
@12guage do u still have a few..or 1 that u can sell do pm me ...also which sight did u use..

12GAUGE
12-05-2009, 07:11 PM
i'm sorry I kept one and gave the rest away as birthday gifts to my cousins. i do plan to buy more this christmass season, why wait till christmass cause then prices are dirt cheap and very attractive packege deals are offered by companies.

however if you do want to buy yourself i would recommend:

HIVIZ FIBEROPTIC GUNSIGHTS
go to www.google.com/shopping (http://www.google.com/shopping)
or shopping.yahoo.com
before ordering make sure to check out the shippers reviews and chose reputable over cheap low cost shippers.

they have:

1. plain barrel sights (very awsome)
2. snap on sights for barrels with ribs. you'll have to know your barrel rib width before you can order those. knowing exact size matters. no gun smithing required they go snop on using powerful magnets. I got two of those as well, absolutely love them. go for a M series. B is cheap plastic.

however before ordering, do let me your primary use. i.e., hunt/defense/skeet/trap. i'll recommend accordingly.

Regards.

Acciprone
12-05-2009, 09:05 PM
@12gugage all of the above useage .. let me check out the website.. do u intend to order some .. may we could do it together

12GAUGE
12-05-2009, 09:08 PM
Acciprone, no problemo, i'm thinking about ordering it by christmass, cause u know, in christmass season, everything becomes dirt cheap.

Regards.

Acciprone
12-05-2009, 09:12 PM
i am also trying to figure out if my sister in laws ok with stuff being delivered to her house in Us might just buy some grips and and stuff of the net and have it dispatched to her it can come by the end of the year.

12GAUGE
12-05-2009, 09:21 PM
good idea acciprone, remember to check do remember to check with the website, some weapons related items are on the restricted list, they can be shiped within the country of origin but cannot be shipped outside. fiberoptic sights are not on restricted list, but buttstock, pistol grip, forearm, barrels are on restricted list. make sure to check with the shipper before you order them.


Regards.

Acciprone
12-05-2009, 09:25 PM
@12guage.. thanks that is my only convern i wanted to order a PB weapon butt.. cant go too much into detail cause of the topic being banned

Shariq
12-05-2009, 10:32 PM
Plz do check whether ur relative is ok with arms related shipment in US post 9/11. A friend of mine got a call from LEA in US after he ordered brochures of firearms products.

Khalidsh
12-05-2009, 11:39 PM
Worth or No Worth. They are dangerous for you as well as the people in the area. As the pellets will spread more easily and may hurt even someone standing nearby which usually is not supposed to be in the aimed range

Bhatti
13-05-2009, 12:03 AM
kindly prioritize these on the basis of quality/performance as well as price.
1. daudsons shotgun.
2. turkish shotgun.
3. mossberg/ mevrick.

Khalidsh
13-05-2009, 12:06 AM
I would say
1. Mosseberg
2. Daudsons Shooter
3. Turkish

Despite all the varieties available in the Turkish weapons I dont think of then as reliable enough to spend a minimum of 28K

12GAUGE
13-05-2009, 12:13 AM
kindly prioritize these on the basis of quality/performance as well as price.
1. daudsons shotgun.
2. turkish shotgun.
3. mossberg/ mevrick.


from Top to Bottom:

from design perspective:

1. Mossberg 590
2. Mossberg 500 mariner or persuader
3. Maverick
4. Daudsons Pump action
5. Turkish Pumps

from reliablity and durability perspective:
1. Mossberg 590
2. Mossberg 500 mariner or persuader
3. Maverick
4. Daudsons Pump action
5. Turkish Pumps

from finish perspective:
1. Mossberg 590
2. Mossberg 500 mariner or persuader
3. Maverick
4. Turkish Pumps
5. Daudsons Pump action

if slugs are important:
1. Mossberg 590
2. Mossberg 500 mariner or persuader
3. Maverick
4. Turkish Pumps
5. Daudsons Pump action

cost wise:
1. Mossberg 590
2. Mossberg 500 mariner or persuader
3. Maverick
4. Turkish Pumps
5. Daudsons Pump action

benefit-cost ratio wise:
1. Daudsons Pump action
2. Maverick
3. Turkish
4. Mossberg 500 mariner or persuader
5. Mossberg 590


Hope it helps

Taurus
13-05-2009, 12:24 AM
nice 1 12gauge

12GAUGE
13-05-2009, 12:30 AM
Thank you Sir, i'm glad to be of assistance.


Regards.

Acciprone
13-05-2009, 09:34 AM
@12guage
from reliablity and durability perspective:
1. Mossberg 590
2. Mossberg 500 mariner or persuader
3. Maverick
4. Daudsons Pump action
5. Turkish Pumps

you rate daudson higher than turkish.. is that specific for pump or semi auto also

Khalidsh
13-05-2009, 09:36 AM
1 -5 are the marks given of its the ranking?

Mitho
13-05-2009, 10:28 AM
@12 gauge
what will u perfer a daudson 12 gauge or a trukish pump action.

Taurus
13-05-2009, 11:39 AM
i would add +1 to gauge for this because daud sons metallurgy on weapons are quite good they use good steel...

12GAUGE
13-05-2009, 12:18 PM
you rate daudson higher than turkish.. is that specific for pump or semi auto also
@12 gauge
what will u perfer a daudson 12 gauge or a trukish pump action.

Interesting quiestion. kindly allow me to explain.

1. daudson pump actions are made of quality steel, i'm a witness to it myself.
2. daudson's pump action is a mossberg clone which itself is a highly durable/reliable design with decades of track record
3. turkish guns are basically pump action conversions of their semi-auto designs. they are not original pump designs.
4. turkish guns are basically build on hunting specifications, look at the rail (bolt assembly) of any turkish pump gun and u'll know, look at the cartridge elevator of any turkish gun and u'll know that its basically not a gun originlly designed keeping SD or HD in mind.
5. i'll take a daudsons pump over any turkish pump any day of the week. i'm a witness to their quality and durability.

we are strictly talking about pump actions. cause if i recall correctly the original topic of discussion was one pump action vs another pump action. one more thing: i will never recommend a semi-auto for SD or HD purposes. however if you're an entry man, or a breacher in a SWAT formation or a sweeper in an anti terrorist squad, go right ahead buy a semi auto, but if you're owner/resident/husband/brother/father in a hostile situation where a good solid bang will decide/keep/maintain your status as owner/resident/husband/brother/father then stick to pumps only.

Regards.

p.s. by the way, entry man, breecher and sweepers carry more pumps then semi autos. but still they are dedicated professionals whose only tool is a shotgun, they can afford a semi auto. cause they usually carry a side arm just incase the firearm malfunctions and usually backup (second/third person) is only seconds behind. in a typical SWAT formation, breecher enters the door. his wing man (humorously called angel) armed with SMG follows behind with his one hand on the shoulder of the breecher.

well thats SWAT, no average joe pakistani. average joe pakistani gets just one shot, one moment, one decision. he cant afford to jam/missfire. there is no backup. there is no wing man. there is no backup weapon. there is no side arm. and he is not prepared, he is not ready, he is not wearing a helmet, he is not wearing body armor, he is wearing ordinary clothes, he is not composed, he is not mentally prepared, he is shaking like anything, he is unable to cope up with high amounts of adrenaline in his veins, he is scared sh^tless, he is cought off-gaurd, he has alot to lose.

then there is the chuck chuck sound of pump which tells the intruder, back-off or else i'm willing to do whatever is necessary to protect my claim/property/life/dignity/freedom. i'm willing to excercise the nature's eldest law. eat or be eaten. i'm willing to unleash the animal within. i'm willing to excercise the oldest and most noble of my rights: the right of self perservation.

Shariq
13-05-2009, 08:55 PM
12gauge Sir i really enjoy reading your posts. Really informative.Thanks

Acciprone
13-05-2009, 09:19 PM
@12guage.. very intersting commnets .. however what would u recomend ppl like me who have pistols + only one shotgun that being a semi auto not to use it for HD.

Enigmatic Desires
13-05-2009, 10:21 PM
you rate daudson higher than turkish.. is that specific for pump or semi auto also
@12 gauge
what will u perfer a daudson 12 gauge or a trukish pump action.

Interesting quiestion. kindly allow me to explain.

1. daudson pump actions are made of quality steel, i'm a witness to it myself.
2. daudson's pump action is a mossberg clone which itself is a highly durable/reliable design with decades of track record
3. turkish guns are basically pump action conversions of their semi-auto designs. they are not original pump designs.
4. turkish guns are basically build on hunting specifications, look at the rail (bolt assembly) of any turkish pump gun and u'll know, look at the cartridge elevator of any turkish gun and u'll know that its basically not a gun originlly designed keeping SD or HD in mind.
5. i'll take a daudsons pump over any turkish pump any day of the week. i'm a witness to their quality and durability.

we are strictly talking about pump actions. cause if i recall correctly the original topic of discussion was one pump action vs another pump action. one more thing: i will never recommend a semi-auto for SD or HD purposes. however if you're an entry man, or a breacher in a SWAT formation or a sweeper in an anti terrorist squad, go right ahead buy a semi auto, but if you're owner/resident/husband/brother/father in a hostile situation where a good solid bang will decide/keep/maintain your status as owner/resident/husband/brother/father then stick to pumps only.

Regards.

p.s. by the way, entry man, breecher and sweepers carry more pumps then semi autos. but still they are dedicated professionals whose only tool is a shotgun, they can afford a semi auto. cause they usually carry a side arm just incase the firearm malfunctions and usually backup (second/third person) is only seconds behind. in a typical SWAT formation, breecher enters the door. his wing man (humorously called angel) armed with SMG follows behind with his one hand on the shoulder of the breecher.

well thats SWAT, no average joe pakistani. average joe pakistani gets just one shot, one moment, one decision. he cant afford to jam/missfire. there is no backup. there is no wing man. there is no backup weapon. there is no side arm. and he is not prepared, he is not ready, he is not wearing a helmet, he is not wearing body armor, he is wearing ordinary clothes, he is not composed, he is not mentally prepared, he is shaking like anything, he is unable to cope up with high amounts of adrenaline in his veins, he is scared sh^tless, he is cought off-gaurd, he has alot to lose.

then there is the chuck chuck sound of pump which tells the intruder, back-off or else i'm willing to do whatever is necessary to protect my claim/property/life/dignity/freedom. i'm willing to excercise the nature's eldest law. eat or be eaten. i'm willing to unleash the animal within. i'm willing to excercise the oldest and most noble of my rights: the right of self perservation.


amazing post.. U sure do know your shot guns dude...

BTW U have convinced me to go for either a DSA .. or a maverick.. as my primrary HD weapon.. (i currently have a semi auto shot gun.)

But I've read somewhere that DSA does'nt like slugs?

Bhatti
13-05-2009, 11:03 PM
thanx 12 gauge ur post is very helpful n finally i have decided to buy DSA.

12GAUGE
13-05-2009, 11:11 PM
however what would u recomend ppl like me who have pistols + only one shotgun that being a semi auto not to use it for HD.

yes my friend, you can use your semi auto. i'm not saying that is useless in HD. however i'm merely suggesting that u should not rely on a semi auto shotgun. a pump is a far better option. if you have just one weapon. since you have pistols as well, i guess a pistol and a semi auto combo is more than adequate.

the saying goes:
use your hand gun to fight u'r way to your long gun


But I've read somewhere that DSA does'nt like slugs?

yes, you are very right, DSA advises against it. however, i strongly believe that any slug with no more than 1 ounce of weight and 0.685 inch of diameter is totaly safe in Daudsons. i'm searching for such slugs in Pak market, i'll report results as soon as i find them. they are available with almost all notable manufacturers in the world but sadly not in Pakistan. 1 ounce slugs are available but the ones i've seen were actually more than 0.70 inch dia.

the reason for finding a slug of 0.685 inch diameter isnt that i feel that DSA is unsafe or anything. i've discussed this with Nooruddin Sahib (MD DSA). DSA pump's barrel is actually designed on old european barrel standards. meaning the barrel is cylinder at 18.4mm or 0.724inch inner diameter. new age cylinder diameter is at 0.729inch or 18.52mm. and ultra modern like beretta, winchester, browning, remington (actually mostly US, european are a bit reluctant to follow) are using overbored (US term=backboring) barrels of diameter 0.740 to 0.745inch thats in metric terms cames out to 18.8mm to 18.92mm.

why? well, smaller diameter barrels ensure tigher wad seal and hence more powerful shots delivered at target, but after the introduction of plastic wads the diameter was opened out a little cause plastic wads are more efficient at sealing. the open bore increases the shot velocity and lowers pellet deformation.

and now the ultra new age US theory: they say, backbored barrels are even more efficient as they reduce recoil, reduce pellet deformation and give better patterns.

the US theory to date has not been proven by any test. there is no evidence that it acutally does all that. however since target/competition shooters are finiky, highly superstitious and are willing to spend big bucks, they'll try anything that promises them better patterns. i've read somewhere that even beretta said that they are backboring because of the demand not because they support it.


Regards.

Enigmatic Desires
13-05-2009, 11:34 PM
Its difficult enough to find slugs in Karachi market as it is.... I had no idea there were any in 1 ounch configerations..

are they less powerful then their regular counterparts?

12GAUGE
13-05-2009, 11:50 PM
yes, they are less powerfull cause they pack less weight. you can find slugs in 1 ounce, 1-1/4 ounces and 1-3/4 ounces. but there is not much difference usually around 10-13 percent difference in energy delivered on target. not much difference in penetration as well. infact 1 ounce slugs are considered more accurate cause they weigh less. plus they kick far less than 1-1/4 ounce slugs.

Regards.

Mitho
13-05-2009, 11:54 PM
@12 gauge
how do turkish shotguns handle slugs?

12GAUGE
14-05-2009, 12:23 AM
known and famous Turkish shotguns handle slugs very well, barrel heating is a problem but then again: why would somebody fire 10 slugs in succession?

one more thing: i said only known and famous turkish guns can fire slugs but i'm still not recommending them for safety reasons cause its hard to say about the consistancy in quality of turkish guns. plus Turkey is not a signatory to CIP and for professionalism's sake, i cannot recommend a gun which is not proof tested. however you may do so at your own risk.

slugs are dangerous, slugs cause excessive and undue wear and tear of the barrel and the action. the recoil alone usually breaks something in a gun. in a turkish gun beware that slugs can kick lose the gun's bead sight, it can crack the forearm, it can crack the plastic butt (if its cheap plastic, it can bend the action bars. it can severly damange the trigger and firing mechanism and can cause the aluminum receiver to crack even. operator may endup safe but the gun can be easily rendered useless.

i know that my advise of not using slugs fell on deaf ears. cause in my experience, slugs are like cigarettes, we know they cause cancer and impotency and yet we choose to smoke them.

Regards.

HassaanAfzal
14-05-2009, 12:28 AM
i know that my advise of not using slugs fell on deaf ears. cause in my experience, slugs are like cigarettes, we know they cause cancer and impotency and yet we choose to smoke them.

Regards.

Well said :)

Enigmatic Desires
14-05-2009, 01:07 AM
Ouch..

An here I was with my heart set on buying a turkish combo complete with 5 chokes an 2 berrels.. Not to mention the looks of a film star..

(sigh) looks like its goin to be the maverick after all..

:(

12GAUGE
14-05-2009, 02:55 AM
dude, dont be said, just chuck u'r maverick and compare it's sound to the turkish pump, mossbergs sound is like the sweatest symphony you can hear. turkish pumps in my personal opinion sound ugly, mossberg/mossberg clones in my opinion sounds much nicer. back in the days when we were young we used to play "doom" and "duke nuke'em" on computers, if u remember the game and the pump actions in it, u'll remember which sound i'm talking about.

loud bang followed by sharp chuck chuck followed by sound of falling/bouncing empty hull on the ground.

Hamid
14-05-2009, 05:23 PM
@12guage, I am impressed with your writing skills. Its very rare to find people in the Pakistani media who have that much grasp on ungrazie.

Taurus
14-05-2009, 05:31 PM
whats the price of mossberg 500?

Balazona
14-05-2009, 05:32 PM
@12 gague,get ready bro.
just arrange couple of articles for The Firepower mag. ;)

Hamid
14-05-2009, 05:49 PM
Post edited to protect Balzy's secret mission concerning norinco;)

Balazona
14-05-2009, 05:53 PM
:rolleyes:

12GAUGE
14-05-2009, 06:06 PM
@12 gague,get ready bro.
just arrange couple of articles for The Firepower mag.

wil do my friend, will do.

Regards.

Aamar
14-05-2009, 06:26 PM
How much is the Mossberg for ? I am seriously interested :)

Hamid
14-05-2009, 06:53 PM
Its for Rs 35,000. Prices are mentioned under Market Place tab on the home page.

Taurus
14-05-2009, 07:07 PM
thats of mossberg maverick 88

Aamar
14-05-2009, 08:04 PM
Thanks, what's the availability situation in karachi like ?

Taurus
14-05-2009, 08:05 PM
its almost not available at every shop i heard from a friend that its available @famous

MOLAjat
15-05-2009, 10:27 AM
Nice info 12 guage. You are a shotgun GURU.

12GAUGE
15-05-2009, 12:38 PM
@MOLAjat

thanks my friend.

Regards.

Shariq
15-05-2009, 08:32 PM
Thanks, what's the availability situation in karachi like ?
Available at Ammar for 38k

Enigmatic Desires
22-05-2009, 01:27 AM
Thanks, what's the availability situation in karachi like ?
Available at Ammar for 38k

For a tried an tested design of amarican origin.. thats a pretty reasonable price

Mitho
22-05-2009, 09:02 AM
38 k for 5 shot or 8 shot

Khalidsh
22-05-2009, 09:47 AM
mitho has the right question. As most of us just call the shop and ask the prices. Even I do the same sometimes. The idea is to get the model number from the shop guy and see it on the net and discuss on the forum. This way you can be very safe when on buying spree.