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Doktar
16-06-2010, 07:58 PM
Alhamdolillah yesterday I bought new Baikal Viking 9mm pistol. I have observed a few differences in my pistol with other Viking pistols which I have previously seen. 1-There are no grooves (rails) on my pistol. 2-The slide lock pin is different in shape. 3-Right side safety lever is different from left safety lever. Date of manufacture is 2010 and I bought it seal pack NIB. Any comments...?

Sonnenkind
16-06-2010, 08:13 PM
Mashallah Doktar sahab, congratulations. May it serve you well. Regarding the differences, a few things might help. Could you please post photos illustrating the differences? as well as the price and dealer you got it from. To my knowledge the MP-446 does have rails and the safety levers (if thats what you were implying) are identical on both sides. Looking at pictures would definitely help

PsiFactor
16-06-2010, 08:59 PM
@Doktar sir can you post some pics of your new gun so that we can compare it with other mp 446 pics .

Doktar
16-06-2010, 09:07 PM
Sorry brothers I don't have camera. I would try to borrow and post some pics. These changes (differences) may be present in newly manufactured pistol as my pistol was made in April 2010. I got it from Fakhre Alam and Brothers. Asking price was 48K. I exchanged it with my CF-98.

Gilani
16-06-2010, 09:44 PM
Doktar sahib, congrats on buying one of the best handguns available in Pakistani market. Please post the pics so that we can see the difference :)

Denovo87
16-06-2010, 10:10 PM
Cannot say anything than the safety levers, yes they are bit different installed and totally different when taken out of the gun, below is the picture showing both out of the gun,


http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss220/denovo87/Viking%20Safety%20Lever%20Job/09SAFETYLEVERS.jpg

abbasdurrani
16-06-2010, 10:18 PM
Denovo bro i need ur advice over something .......

AK47
16-06-2010, 10:18 PM
And the "TANK" undergoes further mechanical scrutiny/surgery! :lol:

I must say, this is becoming one of the most appreciated handguns in the -50K sector. :)

Congrats Dr. Sahib on this purchase, you're swapping guns these days like different flavors of lolly-pops! :) :lol:

Any ideas how it performs with JHP's? Just curious! :|

Aquarius
16-06-2010, 10:19 PM
Congrats Doktor Sahib on purchasing this tank.. please post some pictures, so that we may see the differences..... :)

Denovo87
16-06-2010, 10:20 PM
AK bro, it just eats everything fed, JHP's are eaten like HALWA ;)

Aquarius
16-06-2010, 10:21 PM
Any ideas how it performs with JHP's? Just curious! :|

Tried 100 Armscor JHP without a single hicough.. :)

Denovo87
16-06-2010, 10:24 PM
Denovo bro i need ur advice over something .......

I am all ears bro.

abbasdurrani
16-06-2010, 10:30 PM
Denovo bro i need ur advice over something .......

I am all ears bro.

bro sorry for going off the topic but thought its a nice time to catch ya :) .. kagefox told me u hav a 24/7 oss . bro i want to know ur views abt it. is it a reliable tool ?

AK47
16-06-2010, 10:35 PM
AK bro, it just eats everything fed, JHP's are eaten like HALWA ;)

Thanks bro, interesting, evident from Aquarius bro's 100 Rds test, clearly! :)

AK47
16-06-2010, 10:37 PM
Denovo bro i need ur advice over something .......

I am all ears bro.

bro sorry for going off the topic but thought its a nice time to catch ya :) .. kagefox told me u hav a 24/7 oss . bro i want to know ur views abt it. is it a reliable tool ? Bro, let Denovo bro first convince you on the "reliability" issue, if you need to know other "features" of this wonder by itself, let me know! :)

abbasdurrani
16-06-2010, 10:47 PM
bro im eager to hear anything abt it.. plz tell me wht u know :)

Denovo87
16-06-2010, 11:06 PM
Denovo bro i need ur advice over something .......

I am all ears bro.

bro sorry for going off the topic but thought its a nice time to catch ya :) .. kagefox told me u hav a 24/7 oss . bro i want to know ur views abt it. is it a reliable tool ?

Abbasdurrani bro, as far as my experience with the peice I got is very pleasant :) ran through 300+ so far from local desi reloads to Phillines JHP's without any hitch of any sort. Mags fed everytime, round went off every time, brass thrown out everytime, it always feel good to shoot with OSS and it alway is a fun job to clean it :)

Controls are very convenient, easy to operate, & smooth, disassembly/disassembly is abreeze :)

Features are top notch & practicle like a decocker & loaded indicator (which OSS is the only striker fired pistol to have).

Shape; pleasant. natural, comfortable to operate. Feels muzzle heavy when unloaded as soon as you put loaded magazine in it turns into an excellent balanced pistol.
Size; bit long (due to 5.25" barrel) so feels slim shaped as whole and about concealment; leave this to brother AK47 to explain :)

And from last 2 weeks it replaced Berreta centurian to accompany me ;)

My Overall experience with this particular gun is at par with berreta & G17 that I own.

Regarding accuracy I will request you to visit brother Ginali's Handgun Accuracy thread as I normally mess a lot with gun's accuracy potential ;)

AND...Doktor bro, my appologies for poking an OSS in Viking business.

AK47
16-06-2010, 11:20 PM
Thanks Den, you've already explained everything, about "concealment", let me be brief, in a Fobus holster, and due to it's slim profile, heck it concealed even better than my Cougar and PT 145!

I was amazed at the "concealment", can't say if it was the holster that did the magic or what, but a big gun like this glued on to my hips so well that no one could tell it was there at all!

Interestingly, I clamped it on my "naara" wearing Shalwar Kameez, wonder how better it would be when hooked over a proper belt! :o

Btw, Den, perhaps not clearly explained by you, let me add, there's both a loaded chamber indicator, as well as a "cocked" status indicator, and it's amongst the few striker handguns that can decock the firing mechanism, even show whether if it is cocked or not with the round chambered! :)

Aquarius
16-06-2010, 11:20 PM
And from last 2 weeks it replaced Berreta centurian to accompany me ;)


Denovo Sir.. and where is the Centurian beauty rite now.. don't tell me you sold it :o

Denovo87
16-06-2010, 11:25 PM
And from last 2 weeks it replaced Berreta centurian to accompany me ;)


Denovo Sir.. and where is the Centurian beauty rite now.. don't tell me you sold it :o

No brother its still with me but been taken out of SD duties & been asigned to HD :)

abbasdurrani
16-06-2010, 11:25 PM
Thanks Den, you've already explained everything, about "concealment", let me be brief, in a Fobus holster, and due to it's slim profile, heck it concealed even better than my Cougar and PT 145!

I was amazed at the "concealment", can't say if it was the holster that did the magic or what, but a big gun like this glued on to my hips so well that no one could tell it was there at all!

Interestingly, I clamped it on my "naara" wearing Shalwar Kameez, wonder how better it would be when hooked over a proper belt! :o

Btw, Den, perhaps not clearly explained by you, let me add, there's both a loaded chamber indicator, as well as a "cocked" status indicator, and it's amongst the few striker handguns that can decock the firing mechanism, even show whether if it is cocked or not with the round chambered! :)

dat sounds gr8 bro ! u ppl just sold 1 to me :D

abbasdurrani
16-06-2010, 11:33 PM
And from last 2 weeks it replaced Berreta centurian to accompany me ;)


Denovo Sir.. and where is the Centurian beauty rite now.. don't tell me you sold it :o

No brother its still with me but been taken out of SD duties & been asigned to HD :)
Denovo sir.. afta hearin all this good stuff abt the gun inshallah m gonna go for it!:) .. but i have a question bro!! i see many of our seniour members + u too recommendin 446viking and cz999 to everybody , why u dnt recommend this gun to anyone? and in last .. wht does oss stands for + current price?? thnx alot bro

Denovo87
16-06-2010, 11:34 PM
@Denovo .. afta hearin all this good stuff abt the gun inshallah m gonna go for it!:) .. but i have a question bro!! i see many of our seniour members + u too recommendin 446viking and cz999 to everybody , why u dnt recommend this gun to anyone? and in last .. wht does oss stands for = current price?? thnx alot bo

Its different than biakal, CZ or PT92 in firing mechanism so if someone asks for a handgun generaly in certian price range he always is advised for these pistols but when someone expresses his intrest in striker fired pistol in a certian range of price & size I will suggest him to look at it ......... And you asked for my experience with OSS that I expressed but never suggested you to just go for it all together :)

OSS doesnt mean anything :)

Price should be 60k +or - 3000 .

abbasdurrani
16-06-2010, 11:39 PM
Its different than biakal, CZ or PT92 in firing mechanism so if someone asks for a handgun generaly in certian price range he always is advised for these pistols but when someone expresses his intrest in striker fired pistol in a certian range of price & size I will suggest him to look at it ......... And you asked for my experience with OSS that I expressed but never suggested you to just go for it all together :)

OSS doesnt mean anything :)

Price should be 60k +or - 3000 .

bro so u will not recommend me this handgun?

Faheem
16-06-2010, 11:45 PM
Doktar sb congratulations for your new purchase. Please share some pictures of your viking than our seniors will give their feedback about the difference...

Denovo87
16-06-2010, 11:50 PM
Its different than biakal, CZ or PT92 in firing mechanism so if someone asks for a handgun generaly in certian price range he always is advised for these pistols but when someone expresses his intrest in striker fired pistol in a certian range of price & size I will suggest him to look at it ......... And you asked for my experience with OSS that I expressed but never suggested you to just go for it all together :)

OSS doesnt mean anything :)

Price should be 60k +or - 3000 .

bro so u will not recommend me this handgun?

No, I neither will recomend nor restrict to this gun, you are the best judge after reading all the reviews/experiences of different guns by different members, .. AND I gave mine to the best of my knowlege n belief ;)

abbasdurrani
16-06-2010, 11:54 PM
awrite :/ .but m gonna go for it anyway !! :P

Denovo87
16-06-2010, 11:59 PM
awrite :/ .but m gonna go for it anyway !! :P

Best of luck bro .

Doktar
17-06-2010, 10:50 AM
Now this is called Qabza Group of PakGuns :/.I started this thread to get info about my Viking MP-446 :cool:.

AK47
17-06-2010, 10:54 AM
Now this is called Qabza Group of PakGuns :/.I started this thread to get info about my Viking MP-446 :cool:.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

And you mean Den and I took "qabza" of your thread? :lol:

Sorry Dr. Sahib, I was having the same feeling last night, yet I considered the fact that your query about the Baikal had already been sufficiently replied to by Sir Denovo. You're again requested Sir to post some pics for further scrutiny. :)

Aquarius
17-06-2010, 10:57 AM
Now this is called Qabza Group of PakGuns :/.I started this thread to get info about my Viking MP-446 :cool:.

Yes brother you are absolutely justified Doktar brother.. now this is truely called http://s3.postimage.org/TVuoS.gif (http://www.postimage.org/)

AK47
17-06-2010, 11:01 AM
OMG, Den, we got 2 doctors and one "Governor" behind us, that too from Peshawar! :lol:

Aquarius
17-06-2010, 11:03 AM
But Doktar brother as long as you don't post some pictures of your gun to compare it with ours, I am sure if any member could help you in this regard, so post some good quality pictures.... :)

Aquarius
17-06-2010, 11:09 AM
OMG, Den, we got 2 doctors and one "Governor" behind us, that too from Peshawar! :lol:

:lol: :lol: thats nice AK brother but I am also involved in hijacking this thread as its evident from my posts above.... ;)

Denovo87
17-06-2010, 11:13 AM
I am sorry Doktar bro, since was asked a question here so had to reply, replied your safety lever query aswell :)

By the way already requested mods to shift all offtopic posts to another thread opened by Abbasdurrani bro, so you soon will have QUBZA of your thread back ;)

12GAUGE
17-06-2010, 12:33 PM
AoA Everybody

kindly allow me to offer my two cents on this subject.

few days ago we (me, Dr. Zakir and our KPK governor) were out shopping for some "toys for boys" and while selecting a handgun for our KBC member, I noticed that every Baikal MP446 present in the inventory of the dealer is different from one another. different not quality wise, literally different. I mean even the Vikings that had consecutive serial numbers had so much difference between them that one could easily mark them as fake or brand them as totaly different models.

that day, we saw different safety switches. different locking blocks. we even saw a baikal with polished stainless steel locking block and rails. we even saw a baikal with totally different shaped polymer frame. i'm not talking about quality wise different, i'm talking about a totally different shape. it even had different grip enhancing serrations. then there was the slide release lever. in few vikings, this level was totally different and was more like the Yargin Grach's level which is flush fit to the frame instead of Viking's protruding lever.

now if my memory serves me right, this particular Viking that Doktar Sb. has purchased should have last three digits of the serial number above 900 but less than 1100. is that right?

Regards.

Doktar
17-06-2010, 01:15 PM
Special thanks to 12gauge for returing my thread to me :D Yes the serial no on my pistol lies in between the given range. Well I thought that Congenital Anamolies only happen in humans and animals.Here we are seeing it in pistols also.First it was CF-98 with different names and magazines and now it's Baikal Viking.I sincerely hope that Darra people are not behind these miracles :rolleyes:

12GAUGE
17-06-2010, 02:02 PM
Special thanks to 12gauge for returing my thread to me :D Yes the serial no on my pistol lies in between the given range. Well I thought that Congenital Anamolies only happen in humans and animals.Here we are seeing it in pistols also.First it was CF-98 with different names and magazines and now it's Baikal Viking.I sincerely hope that Darra people are not behind these miracles :rolleyes:

Sir! I would advise you to take you Viking back to the dealer and exchange it with a Viking whose serial number is say less than 400. I have seen a few there. go for serial number less than 400 and you are most likely to find a near perfect piece.

Regards.

Doktar
17-06-2010, 03:00 PM
@12gauge.... Sir thanx a lot. I will keep my Viking pistol: I like the way it is. I consider these changes as EVOLUTION. Anyhow I have sent an e-mail to BAIKAL let's see if I get a reply from them.

Sohail Waheed
18-06-2010, 10:16 AM
I too have a question regarding the magazine of this handgun. I observed that when a round is inserted in to the magazine its very difficult to pull out the round. Is there any special trick to pull out the unfired round from the magazine?

Zubair
18-06-2010, 12:31 PM
BTW- All STEEL GRACH is coming into LAHAORE market in a couple of weeks.

Syed
18-06-2010, 01:59 PM
@ all plz put some light on match grade barrel

Denovo87
18-06-2010, 02:19 PM
I too have a question regarding the magazine of this handgun. I observed that when a round is inserted in to the magazine its very difficult to pull out the round. Is there any special trick to pull out the unfired round from the magazine?

you are right Sohail bro, Viking and CF98 both share the same hitch.Brother Mangloo Ramzani posted a pictorial on easy removal of rounds from CF98, I am sure it will work on Viking magazine aswell, link to that post is http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=127875#p127875 .

Sohail Waheed
18-06-2010, 06:09 PM
Thanks Denovo bro, will try it.

Crazy Shooter
28-06-2010, 12:02 PM
Brother its been almost two weeks now did you check with any dealer about availability of all steel Grach pistol ?

noumanzaidi
28-06-2010, 01:00 PM
@Denovo87
very well explained brother :)

Crazy Shooter
29-06-2010, 12:26 AM
BTW- All STEEL GRACH is coming into LAHAORE market in a couple of weeks.

Today I called your dealer Brother Zubair if I am not wrong you bought your viking mp446 from orient traders lahore today I called them because you said all steel grach ( military version designed to fire AP rounds ) is coming to lahore market in couple of weeks but orient arms didnt know anything about it who told you about Grach or Yarigin ?

Gilani
29-06-2010, 01:00 AM
Crazy Shooter brother, please share your knowledge about the information that AP ammo (I assume you mean 7N21 and 7N31) can only be fired with MP443 and not with MP446!!!

MP446 is the training and sport version of MP443. How can one train if the pistol does not have the same capability?

regards

KageFox
29-06-2010, 01:11 AM
If I am not mistaken, the 7N21/7N31 are simply hotter rounds of the 9x19mm. It is possible that a steady diet of these hotter rounds can accelerate wear and tear on the MP-446, while having little to no effect of the MP-443. In any case, it seems highly unlikely that the MP-446 is completely unable to handle these hot loads.

Crazy Shooter, information in this regard will be greatly appreciated.

Sohail Waheed
29-06-2010, 10:21 AM
BTW- All STEEL GRACH is coming into LAHAORE market in a couple of weeks.

Today I called your dealer Brother Zubair if I am not wrong you bought your viking mp446 from orient traders lahore today I called them because you said all steel grach ( military version designed to fire AP rounds ) is coming to lahore market in couple of weeks but orient arms didnt know anything about it who told you about Grach or Yarigin ?
C S Bro, the steel version statement was not given by Orient Traders neither Zubair sb has quoted any dealer name. I was the witness when a person told us about the steel version. I dont know wheather i should publish him here or not. Let Zubair sb decide this.

Crazy Shooter
29-06-2010, 10:24 AM
As far as I know the 7N21/7N31 rounds are just for MP 443 ( Grach or Yarygin ) Pistol MP 446 is the civilian version of Grach or Yarygin pistol and the quality of barrel is not as good as it is in the military version MP 443 and this is just to stop the civilians to use HOT ROUNDS ( 7N21/7N31) because using of such rounds in civilians is not legal and and yes the name Grach was actually given to that secret experiment in which Russians developed 7N21/7N31 rounds and this name Grach was given to MP 443 The Yarygin just because this is the only pistol which can fire these hot rounds . Remember using the rounds with the ability of steel penetration is not allowed in any country there are no such laws in our country about ammunition in our country but in US and in Russia there are strict laws for using steel penetrating rounds and yes if you all think that MP 446 and MP 443 have no difference in barrels then why MP 443 is called a pure military version and MP 446 a pure civilian version ? brothers the barrel of MP 446 is not as good as it is in MP 443 now lets come to the point that MP 446 viking can fire AP rounds or not I strongly recommend NO but its not like if you try to fire such round if you FIND them its gonna destroy the gun in seconds maybe it won't but surely its gonna work like a catalyst in reducing the barrel life if the barrel life of Grach is 50,000 rounds and MP 446 50,000 too you can fire 50,000 7N21/7N31 rounds from your MP 443 but you cant fire more then 5,000 rounds from your MP 446 Viking because Viking is not meant to fire hot rounds only Grach can handle these hot rounds , brothers there is a big difference between these two models which makes these pistol one for pure military use and other for pure civilian use.

Crazy Shooter
29-06-2010, 10:39 AM
I am not saying that Zubair Brother quoted any dealer name I just remember his thread when he bought his viking mp 446 from orient traders neela gumbad lahore I thought maybe Orient Traders told Zubair brother about the steel version actually I am looking for MP 443 the pure military version of MP 446 and when Zubair brother told that its going to be in market soon since then I am excited

kasana
29-06-2010, 02:02 PM
Waiting for the coments of 12 gauge sir and gilani sir about shooters info.

In my view the difference between grach n viking is only the steel and polymer frame.

kasana
29-06-2010, 06:30 PM
this model of baikal is available in lahore market. all the pix sent by NAVEED PK, a great member of pak gunz. am so much thankful of him. 12 gauge sir plz check these pix and give ur valuable coments. should we buy this model aur wait for new shipment? there are some miner differences between old and new model.... plz mention about these differences.


http://s1.postimage.org/gvNUr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxgvNUr)

http://s2.postimage.org/7DN0J.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts7DN0J)

http://s2.postimage.org/7EaY9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts7EaY9)

http://s2.postimage.org/7Edsi.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts7Edsi)

http://s2.postimage.org/7EfXr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts7EfXr)

http://s2.postimage.org/7EirA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts7EirA)

http://s2.postimage.org/7EnqS.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts7EnqS)

http://s2.postimage.org/7EpW0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts7EpW0)

http://s2.postimage.org/7Esq9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts7Esq9)

Crazy Shooter
29-06-2010, 06:32 PM
if the difference between viking and grach is just the frame why grach is not in market for civilians ? though I am not under estimating the performance of mp 446 its a very good handgun but not meant to fire hot loads thats why its a sporting and training pistol where as the Grach is pure military version designed to fire hot loads and can stand serious abuse I can't comment on the accuracy of grach as compared to viking as I never fired Grach

coolbox18
29-06-2010, 06:36 PM
Crazy Shooter brother, if i am allowed:

In the durability area, comparing viking to other available handguns, well it cannot be compared. It is engineered to last.
Have you checked pics posted on this forum comparing the barrel with Glock and i believe cz999 (members pls correct me if i am wrong). That one pic actually says it all. however, the polymer frame has steel inserts to support slide rails, and steel inserts also house the trigger assembly. this is not common in polymer handguns.

You have quoted that life of Grach barrel is 50k rounds. Is it on 7N21/31? Please confirm for our knowledge.
Have you checked out gsh18? It is the first weapon built for these rounds. Check it out and compare it with Viking.

Armour piercing rounds? I would not want to be in a situation where I have to fire them! I mean, who wants to fire towards a hostile behind 8mm mild steel armour, while we have our kurtas and shirts? That is, if i get these rounds in the first place.

Those who have used viking are all high praise on its construction quality, as well as a very smooth trigger, and a very mild recoil. If it were not designed to handle high pressure rounds (40k psi for 7N31), the recoil would not be so low on normal rounds ( i believe about 26kpsi).

Bro, above is only to give you food for thought in the other direction. Your concerns may be valid, but if you ask me, it doesnt matter about AP rounds. 50k rounds on normal ammo is good enough for most, atleast for me. If u can get a Grach 443, please do so, and let us all know about its performance and build quality. Who wouldn't want to own a piece which can cut steel :)

Crazy Shooter
29-06-2010, 06:42 PM
All models of viking mp 446 coming in market are reliable there are no clones for this gun avlble so far the model in above pics was manufactured in 2009 I have the same with me its a good gun no issues go for it 12 guage can enlighten you more :)

kasana
29-06-2010, 06:44 PM
i got these three differences. all the serial numbers of old n new model are up to 400 and rail style is different

plz zoom these pix, check ur handgun and menssion the other differences.....
http://s1.postimage.org/gAvJr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxgAvJr)

http://s1.postimage.org/gAydA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxgAydA)

http://s1.postimage.org/gAAIJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxgAAIJ)
http://s1.postimage.org/gBiCi.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxgBiCi)

http://s1.postimage.org/gBl6r.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxgBl6r)

Crazy Shooter
29-06-2010, 06:49 PM
Crazy Shooter brother, if i am allowed:

In the durability area, comparing viking to other available handguns, well it cannot be compared. It is engineered to last.
Have you checked pics posted on this forum comparing the barrel with Glock and i believe cz999 (members pls correct me if i am wrong). That one pic actually says it all. however, the polymer frame has steel inserts to support slide rails, and steel inserts also house the trigger assembly. this is not common in polymer handguns.

You have quoted that life of Grach barrel is 50k rounds. Is it on 7N21/31? Please confirm for our knowledge.
Have you checked out gsh18? It is the first weapon built for these rounds. Check it out and compare it with Viking.

Armour piercing rounds? I would not want to be in a situation where I have to fire them! I mean, who wants to fire towards a hostile behind 8mm mild steel armour, while we have our kurtas and shirts? That is, if i get these rounds in the first place.

Those who have used viking are all high praise on its construction quality, as well as a very smooth trigger, and a very mild recoil. If it were not designed to handle high pressure rounds (40k psi for 7N31), the recoil would not be so low on normal rounds ( i believe about 26kpsi).

Bro, above is only to give you food for thought in the other direction. Your concerns may be valid, but if you ask me, it doesnt matter about AP rounds. 50k rounds on normal ammo is good enough for most, atleast for me. If u can get a Grach 443, please do so, and let us all know about its performance and build quality. Who wouldn't want to own a piece which can cut steel :)

Dear Brother I am not comparing these two handguns like you think I personally own a viking and its one of the best handgun I ever had I am sure I wont be getting hot loads in my life I dont have to care about them the question here is not that we can get hot loads or not the question here is that there is a difference between these two guns I started this thread just to know our mp 446 better I am not the only one on this forum with mp 446 and I believe mp 446 with normal standard rounds can last for a life time its just a discussion about the engineering used in these two handguns thats it I love my viking mp 446

coolbox18
29-06-2010, 06:54 PM
Bro, then i would advise to stop being concerned and enjoy your viking.
have you posted the pics of it yet?

Crazy Shooter
29-06-2010, 06:55 PM
i got these three differences. all the serial numbers of old n new model are up to 400 and rail style is difference.

plz check ur handgun and menssion the other differences.....
http://s1.postimage.org/gAvJr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxgAvJr)

http://s1.postimage.org/gAydA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxgAydA)

http://s1.postimage.org/gAAIJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxgAAIJ)


The handgun in first pic was manufactured in 2009 I have the same one in the second pic the handgun was manufactured in 2007 and in the last pic the handgun was manufactured in 2003 so there are lil difference and these diff are not going to effect the durability of handgun just a change in design but its your own choice which one you like and with which model you feel comfortable

Crazy Shooter
29-06-2010, 06:57 PM
Bro, then i would advise to stop being concerned and enjoy your viking.
have you posted the pics of it yet?

I am not concerned about my Viking and I am enjoying it yes I have posted 2 or 3 pics in the new purchase thread :)

Gilani
29-06-2010, 07:20 PM
So far, we have opinions but no authentic data. We need to have a confirmed and authentic source to be sure about the things. (opinions on different gun forums and handgun reviews by individuals are not a confirmed source, in my view). What Crazy Shooter is saying may be true and may not be true. I have not been able to find any authentic data on chamber pressure limits of Viking and Grach. One thing I can say for sure; the chamber and barrel of Viking is far heavily constructed than normal handguns. I have compared it with the barrels of about 20 handguns and found it more robustly constructed. However, this is just a guess and does not have a scientific backing.

Few words about the term "hot loads". What exactly do we mean by this? How many lbs psi are we talking about? In general terms, anything above the normal 9x19 Parabellum round (which is up to 35000 lb psi) is referred to as a hot load. So it includes +P ammos, it includes +P+ ammos which go up to 39000 lb psi and it also includes 7N21 and 7N31 which go much over 39000 lb psi. 7N31, as per my knowledge, is the hottest 9x19 parabellum round. In any case, sale of 7N21 and 7N31 for civilian use is strictly forbidden in Russia. So it is basically the ammo on which there are restrictions. If there are any restrictions on selling MP443 Grach to the civilians as well than I am not aware of it. Baikal website however mentions Grach as one of the pistols available for sale. But we need some confirmed information on this which we can only get from IZH Baikal.

I am sure all Viking owners would be knowing that Viking comes in three basic models. One is the simple MP446 which has a polymer frame and 112.8 mm barrel, second is the MP446 C which has a polymer frame but 120 mm barrels with option of adjustable sights. Third is the steel frame model of MP446 Viking which has a 112.8 mm barrel. Therefore, steel frame does not mean that it has to be a Grach only. Vikings with steel frame are also available but I am not sure about their availability in Pakistan. :)

Gilani
29-06-2010, 07:31 PM
i got these three differences. all the serial numbers of old n new model are up to 400 and rail style is difference.

plz check ur handgun and menssion the other differences.....
http://s1.postimage.org/gAvJr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxgAvJr)

http://s1.postimage.org/gAydA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxgAydA)

http://s1.postimage.org/gAAIJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxgAAIJ)



Kasana sahib, the first and the third pics are of standard MP446 Viking and center one is of MP446C. Minor differences in style of rails, slide release lever, grip texture etc do not really matter and are common in Viking models from different years. Basically, they are all same pistol with same internal parts. So I wont call them different model, per say. MP446, MP446C and MP446 steel frame version are the different models. :)

kasana
29-06-2010, 11:35 PM
Gilani sir y company is doing these little changes in viking after some time?


Shooter bro we should contect baikal to get the proper information about rhe difference bitween grach viking.

Aquarius
29-06-2010, 11:38 PM
http://s1.postimage.org/gAydA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxgAydA)


Is this MP446C available in the market.. if yes for how much.??

Gilani
29-06-2010, 11:54 PM
Aquarius brother, i was also looking for one but could not find it. Do let me also know if you find a 446C somewhere :)

Crazy Shooter
30-06-2010, 12:11 AM
Aquarius brother, i was also looking for one but could not find it. Do let me also know if you find a 446C somewhere :)

I have no doubt in the performance of Viking I personally own one and I trust this gun more then any other gun in my collection the point is not about the performance of viking everyone is sure there is no doubt about this Russian Tank or beauty whatever you gonna call it but surely its going to be a legend in the history of guns I feel myself lucky to have one, if Grach and Viking are the same models with no major modification in barrel why the model Grach is not for sale in any market ? I am not talking about some black market but its not available in any russian gun market neither its for export just because Grach is meant to fire 7N21 and 7N31 rounds this information was on worldguns.ru but no longer there I have red this somewhere else too that the major difference between a viking and grach is the quality of barrel I don't remember the link now I'll let you guys know as soon as I get it again I am trying but I am sure there is a difference between these two pistol but dont think I am saying anything about the performance of viking because I have already said Viking is one of the most finest gun in its price range and for me in ranking it stands 2nd after Berreta 92FS Inox

Gilani
30-06-2010, 12:31 AM
Crazy Shooter brother, thanks for your comments. Please do let us know when you find a link. It would be interesting to know the details about these two handgun. In my view, complete details are not available at the moment (and if they are available than I am not aware of it). :)

As regards the question that why Russians are not exporting Grach, well, as per Russian policy, the official sidearm of the armed forces is not allowed to be sold in the civilian market in the same shape as it is issued to Army. Same was the case with Makarov till 1991 or so. What they do is that they make the same pistol with a different name and markings and sell it in the market. One could buy a Makarov in 60s and 70s also but not the one which was issued to Russian Army. They were the same Makarov, manufactured by same companies but with slightly different markings etc. After its retirement as official sidearm, Makarov was being sold all over the place as Russian Military Surplus.

Probably same is the case with Grach. They can't sell it in the market with the same name and hence Viking. What I am saying is not with the purpose of proving that Viking can fire 7N21 or 7N31. I have already mentioned that I don't have authentic information about it. It may be or may not be. What I am trying to say is that other than its ability to fire the high velocity ammos, there are other reason also due to which a Grach can not be sold to civilian market (though it can be exported to other armies ). :)

Crazy Shooter
30-06-2010, 02:09 AM
I hope this article is going to help all of us that there is a difference between these two pistols

Yarygin (MP-443 'Grach') 6P35 9 mm self-loading pistol (Russian Federation), Pistols

Development
The search for a replacement for the low-powered PM Makarov pistol commenced during the early 1980s, although it was not until the late 1980s that final design definitions were agreed. The project was given the cover name Grach ('rook'), with three designs under consideration:The Grach-1 combined blowback operation with gas locking but was not considered worthy of further development.The Grach-2 was eventually selected for Russian armed forces service as the 6P35 Grach, or PYa (Pistolet Yarygin), after the head designer, Vladimir Yarygin.The Grach-3 emerged as the PMM, a modified Makarov with a large capacity magazine and firing an enhanced 9 x 18 mm round . After some public exposure the PMM appears to have been abandoned, possibly because the enhanced cartridge which required a modified chamber to retard ejection until pressure levels had dropped, could also be fired in the standard unmodified Makarov pistol.Considerable attention was paid to the exact type of ammunition the 6P35 Grach was to fire before it was decided to adopt the new 9 × 19 mm 7N21 cartridge with its enhanced armour-penetrating bullet. Although the 7N21 has dimensions almost exactly the same as those for the 9 × 19 mm round, it imparts a higher muzzle velocity. A version of the 6P35 specifically designed to fire standard loadings of 9 × 19 mm ammunition is known as the MP-446 Viking self-loading pistol; it is visually identical to the 6P35 and as of 2008, is intended for export.

Crazy Shooter
30-06-2010, 02:28 AM
I am sure about it now that MP 446 is just to handle standard 9 mm bullets

Gilani
30-06-2010, 08:01 AM
I am sure about it now that MP 446 is just to handle standard 9 mm bullets

OK, thanks for quoting a excerpt from Janes, which is a Western source. I was looking for something from IZH Baikal, which are the manufacturers of Grach and Viking Pistols.

As per this source, Viking is designed to fire standard 9mm loads. No further technical details are given. Standard loads of 9mm are in the range of 32k to 35k lb psi. If this is what is meant by this article (and also as per you statement above) than Viking is not capable of firing +P and +P+ ammo, what to talk about 7N21 and 7N31 which are much hotter loads. Viking may not be able to fire 7N31, I can understand that because that generates around 45K lb psi of chamber pressure. But I find it very hard to digest that Viking is not designed to fire even +P and +P+ loads, which most ordinary pistols nowadays can??? This sort of makes Viking a weak pistol, weaker than most other Chinese and Turkish pistols available in the market because all of them are designed to fire different brands of commercially available JHPs which are much hotter loads that a standard 9mm round.

We must have authentic scientific data indicating the lb psi pressure that Viking's chamber is designed to take. Otherwise, we would just be talking in air.

7N21 and 7N31 are most likely never going to be available to us, as per my estimation. So our lengthy discussions on this topic would hardly be of any use. In the absence of technical data, one can compare the breach, chamber and barrel of Viking with many other pistols and would find it much bigger and much solidly constructed. I have therefore no reasons to assume that this pistol can only fire standard 9mm. In my personal view (which is still not supported by scientific data), its should be safe to fire all types of +P and +P+ ammos commercially available in the market with Viking. It may not be able to fire 7N31 safely but that does not matter because 7N31 is perhaps never going to be available to us in the market.

Crazy Shooter
30-06-2010, 09:34 AM
Dear Brother Gilani I never said that Viking can just fire standard 9mm rounds my focus was to make everyone understand that there is a difference between these two models Grach and Viking and both are for different purpose Viking may even fire 7N21 and 7N31 rounds but both pistols Viking and Grach are manufactured for different purposes one pure for military use and one pure for civilian use I have discussed all this in detail just to make everyone around understand that Viking is Different from never said Grach is better then Viking :) I love my viking

Crazy Shooter
30-06-2010, 09:44 AM
I am also expecting Pakistani Black Market to be flooded with Grach the original military version but maybe its gonna take 2 or 3 years I'll be 28 after 3 years lol just can't wait to shoot this pistol you can say I am in love with it too just like I am in love with my viking :)

Sahibzada_Jafar
30-06-2010, 03:15 PM
I want to buy this baikal MP-446 9mm pistol from karachi market , could any one please tell me how can i buy real one because i went to lucky star few days ago and i saw same diffrence in this gun so i didn't buy because in website pic the Made in russia wording is on middle and big but that gun which i saw in market the wording made in russia and other side mp-446 vicking both were small and on the side .

Denovo87
30-06-2010, 09:18 PM
Interesting discussion going on here, I am pretty confident that Viking I have is built to churn 7N31 out comfortably, can some one please arrange me a dozen of these rounds ? to give this discussion a fruitfull end :)

Aquarius
30-06-2010, 09:25 PM
+1 Denovo Sir.. this will end up all the doubts.. but from where to arrange the 7N21 or 7N31.... :(

Crazy Shooter
30-06-2010, 09:35 PM
Interesting discussion going on here, I am pretty confident that Viking I have is built to churn 7N31 out comfortably, can some one please arrange me a dozen of these rounds ? to give this discussion a fruitfull end :)

Our viking can fire hot loads the discussion here is not that it can or it can not I am just trying to make people understand that its not the diff in frame the technology used in both pistols are different Grach was a secret experiment and MP 443 is capable of firing the result of that secret experiment which is 7N21 and 7N31 MP 443 is specifically designed to fire these rounds whereas the MP 446 Viking is designed and engineered to fire standard bullets like any other handgun can I didn't see yet but there are rumors that Viking is also available in steel frame if MP 446 is in steel frame what makes this handgun different from MP 443 Grach ? because everyone here has been discussing in past that only diff between these two handguns are polymer and steel frame

Denovo87
30-06-2010, 09:57 PM
So its the round that was invented first then they made/developed a platform to use that round efficiently ;;;;

Crazy Shooter
01-07-2010, 12:28 AM
Grach is designed to fire these hot loads Denovo brother

Crazy Shooter
01-07-2010, 12:48 AM
Gilani bro is online :) :D Sir waiting for your response

coolbox18
01-07-2010, 01:05 AM
i thought Gilani sb already provided his rrsponse.

Crazy Shooter
01-07-2010, 01:07 AM
I think the discussion is still undergoing coolbox

Crazy Shooter
01-07-2010, 01:16 AM
If we believe the service life of barrel installed in our MP 446 is better then any other handgun like Glock, H&K, Berreta, etc or any other turkish handgun still Grach wins because Grach is designed to fire the military hot rounds 7N21 and 7N31 while Viking is the sporting and training version of Grach with same design but a low barrel quality well Baikal is manufacturing these both guns to make a pistol sustain these hot rounds needs more hard work and money when Baikal the manufacturing company knows that these rounds are not going to be in civilian use why to invest more hard work and money on Viking ? because Viking is not the military version Grach is the military version demand of Viking in whole world please remember russian arms are banned in USA since 1994 so US citizens have no access to this handgun I was saying demand of MP 446 in whole world is not even 1/3 of russian military requirements

coolbox18
01-07-2010, 01:26 AM
well then we look forward to more expert opinion :)

Crazy Shooter
01-07-2010, 01:32 AM
Finally :)))))))))))

I have got some support on my views :)

MP-446 Viking
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The MP-446 Viking is a semi-automatic 9mm handgun originating from Russia.[1] It was created by the Izhevsk Mechanical Works, located in Russia. It weighs at around 830 grams when unloaded, and has a magazine capacity of 18 rounds. The pistol is a sport/civilian version of Yarygin PYa pistol which has been used by Russian military since 2003. MP-446 is short recoil-operated, locked breech pistol. The key differences between MP-466 and PYa are the frame material (polyamide) and barrel construction: in MP-446 the barrel was weakened to prevent discharge of high-powered armour-piercing military rounds (7N21 type). For civilian use, the pistol can only be loaded with 10 rounds of 9mm Luger.

Crazy Shooter
01-07-2010, 01:43 AM
I want to add one more thing as the Russian arms are banned in USA since 1994 when president Clinton imposed a ban on russian weapons I dont know its the ban or the black market rate the MP 446 is much more expensive as compared to Glock and any other world famous brand

Denovo87
01-07-2010, 01:01 PM
Crazy shpter bro, what I extracted from all of above discussion is, whether its mp443 or mp446 both are the made on same platform that was developed to handle special secret AP round (7n21 or 31)..
when a tool is developed successfully for a specific need all the variants have these specific characters that it was developed for, IMHO. you can take example of mauser action bolt rifles, for military use they have rigid, easy to disassmble bolt assembly, heavy & with chamber n barrels capable of taking 1000s of specic militry loads whereas commercial/sporting variants are light, sturdy, PITA bolt disassembly, decent ergonomics and chamber n barrels to take various commercial & hand loads but to a limitted numbers of rounds :)

Crazy Shooter
01-07-2010, 02:37 PM
Denovo Brother I have quoted so many links and gave so much information here about these two handguns even GSH 18 as well I now want you brothers to quote me any single statement from any gun mag or website about small arms where its written that MP 446 can fire hot loads like 7N21 and 7N31 I have given you so many links in which its clearly mentioned that MP 446 is for standard 9mm cartridges and MP 443 for hot loads its an international standard that any handgun capable of firing hot loads comes with a manual in which its clearly mentioned that this gun can take more pressure as compared to other handguns The barrel of MP 446 is weaker then MP 443 to stop civilians from using any such hot loads because even a factory manufactures these hot loads without any authorization there will be no handgun available to fire these loads . and the danger of rebels getting these guns from markets and using them against LEA is zero

Crazy Shooter
01-07-2010, 02:45 PM
I never said that MP 446 can not fire hot loads but atleast MP 446 was not designed to fire these loads just like most of the shotguns can fire slugs but not all of them are designed to fire slugs

Denovo87
01-07-2010, 03:05 PM
Denovo Brother I have quoted so many links and gave so much information here about these two handguns even GSH 18 as well I now want you brothers to quote me any single statement from any gun mag or website about small arms where its written that MP 446 can fire hot loads like 7N21 and 7N31 I have given you so many links in which its clearly mentioned that MP 446 is for standard 9mm cartridges and MP 443 for hot loads its an international standard that any handgun capable of firing hot loads comes with a manual in which its clearly mentioned that this gun can take more pressure as compared to other handguns The barrel of MP 446 is weaker then MP 443 to stop civilians from using any such hot loads because even a factory manufactures these hot loads without any authorization there will be no handgun available to fire these loads .

Bhai mairay, since these special purpose loads & original weapon made to use them are still not available for test by unbiased civillian reviewers (same like Russian Migs were in 60s & 70s) only thing we have is the data released by the Russians themselves... so there is no single unbiased review availbe (or you quoted) comparing the both variants. And please donot take wikipedia that seriously :)

So the only thing we have available is handgun made on the same platform for commercial/civilian market, isnt it enough that we can buy n enjoy the gun that was made like a Mig ;)

Crazy Shooter
01-07-2010, 03:11 PM
so you think there is no difference between the barrel quality of these two guns ?

Dr Zakir
01-07-2010, 03:15 PM
on of our fellow members who owns grach can answer that

Crazy Shooter
01-07-2010, 03:18 PM
on of our fellow members who owns grach can answer that

Zakir brother please ask that fellow member from where did he get it ? and also the price and if possible ask him to post the pics of Grach I am looking for one for the last 2 years

ay_be_why
01-07-2010, 03:23 PM
Sir there must be a difference, otherwise they wouldn't have classified one as the mil. version and the other as the civ. version, but for all practical purposes.... :)

On the lighter side, the poor BG getting shot by a big, black, stocky Baikal handgun is never going to complain about whether he was shot with the MP446, MP443 or MP446c, whether you used 7N21/31, +P or +P+, Mk1Z or Mk2Z... :) Take my word for it.. :D :D

Denovo87
01-07-2010, 04:30 PM
so you think there is no difference between the barrel quality of these two guns ?

If you are asking my guess then, yes, there should be & there will be but what exactly might the difference be is not something to discuss about, unless someone having both versions + 7n31 ammo comes forward to tell us the exact difference and his reviews on which one he think is more practical & why :)

Pulling a discussion that long which is based on assumptions & guess work is not going to bear any fruit ;)

ay_be_why
01-07-2010, 04:42 PM
Phew sir Denovo, you stole the words from my mouth, well, my fingertips :D

Sahibzada_Jafar
01-07-2010, 07:17 PM
hey guys should i get MP-446 shouldn't i ?

Denovo87
01-07-2010, 08:59 PM
hey guys should i get MP-446 shouldn't i ?

By all means you should :)

Aquarius
01-07-2010, 09:16 PM
hey guys should i get MP-446 shouldn't i ?

Welcome to the forum Sahibzada_Jafar brother.. please update your location so that members could help you regarding your purchase (MP-446). :)

Gilani
02-07-2010, 03:40 PM
so you think there is no difference between the barrel quality of these two guns ?

If you are asking my guess then, yes, there should be & there will be but what exactly might the difference be is not something to discuss about, unless someone having both versions + 7n31 ammo comes forward to tell us the exact difference and his reviews on which one he think is more practical & why :)

Pulling a discussion that long which is based on assumptions & guess work is not going to bear any fruit ;)
+1 Denovo sahib :)

Zubair
03-07-2010, 01:04 AM
BTW- All STEEL GRACH is coming into LAHAORE market in a couple of weeks.

Today I called your dealer Brother Zubair if I am not wrong you bought your viking mp446 from orient traders lahore today I called them because you said all steel grach ( military version designed to fire AP rounds ) is coming to lahore market in couple of weeks but orient arms didnt know anything about it who told you about Grach or Yarigin ?
C S Bro, the steel version statement was not given by Orient Traders neither Zubair sb has quoted any dealer name. I was the witness when a person told us about the steel version. I dont know wheather i should publish him here or not. Let Zubair sb decide this.

I have not qouted ORIENT for the STEEL version. There is an another importer. When the thing comes in I will let everyone know

Zubair
03-07-2010, 01:07 AM
Aquarius brother, i was also looking for one but could not find it. Do let me also know if you find a 446C somewhere :)

Sir try to get it booked through ORIENT in LAHORE. I mean they will import it on demand.

Denovo87
03-07-2010, 01:11 AM
An update on the issue this thread was started for, got a chance to see Doktar bro's Viking today, its totaly different than the one I own and the one's I saw, below are the pics I took of the frame as that is the main thing which is changed totally, it has full length metal lined block, different/improved frame mould, knock down lever is now flushed with the frame making it snag free.


Pictures of my 2009 production viking and doktar's 2010 production model,

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss220/denovo87/doktar%20visit%202-7-10/05.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss220/denovo87/doktar%20visit%202-7-10/03.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss220/denovo87/doktar%20visit%202-7-10/02.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss220/denovo87/doktar%20visit%202-7-10/01.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss220/denovo87/doktar%20visit%202-7-10/04.jpg


It was an honour to host Doktar bro for couple of hours, he is such a nice guy and even nicer doctor :) thanks doktar bro for your time and pleasant company.

DOCTOR AT WORK :)

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss220/denovo87/doktar%20visit%202-7-10/inspection.jpg

and WAARI WAARI ;)

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss220/denovo87/doktar%20visit%202-7-10/waari.jpg

AK47
03-07-2010, 03:41 AM
@Den...........Thanks for the sms bro, checked it out late, but man, I'm amazed! What the heck's going on, first we heard about minor differences within the same model, then came ACHILLES bro's MP 446 01MOD, and now a model 2010 with these differences for the better! :rolleyes: :/ :P

How do you rate the 2010 then, is your opinion towards some even better "robustness", or what? Personally, I feel the frame "lining" somehow seems "thinner" to me! :rolleyes:

Of visual differences from the side-views, I feel Doktar Sb's is even BETTER looking, more appealing, with some slight changes in the grip serrations, even a bit darker tan black, some added "color spots" by the safety and a slightly different rail, at least it appears so from the pic, can't say of photographic disillusions! :o

Overall, I must say, I feel Doktar sb's is a step up in beauty, or at least the lesser of the "ugly duckling", what do you say? :lol:

Anyhow, wish you had taken some pics of the gun from the sides, fully assembled, so the take down lever could have become visible, is it "beretta" like? :rolleyes: :P

Nice news, however, and great to see yet another "mini-GTG" between you and Dr. Sahib, on the "WAARI/WAARI principle"! :lol:

Let's hear more from you on the above, and really wish you could have taken them both out for some range reviews! :(

kasana
03-07-2010, 06:01 PM
Denovo sir what i think which gun is good. i think baikal has change the spring guided rod area only from pure polymer to steel polymer. I havnt found these changes in 2009 model. I dont know y baikal doing these changes frequently in every new shipment.

Gilani
04-07-2010, 01:38 AM
Aquarius brother, i was also looking for one but could not find it. Do let me also know if you find a 446C somewhere :)

Sir try to get it booked through ORIENT in LAHORE. I mean they will import it on demand.
Thanks for the information Zubair sahib :)

kasana
04-07-2010, 01:46 AM
Gilani sir what u say about baikal,s recent quality? Y they are doing these changes?

Gilani
04-07-2010, 02:01 AM
Gilani sir what u say about baikal,s recent quality? Y they are doing these changes?
Sir, only Baikal people can reply why they are doing these changes. However, we can only report on the performance after using the handgun. I have not fired Viking 10 Model though I have fired 2005, 2008 and two 2009 models. So can't comment till I fire and use it. Doctor brother would be able to comment better. :)

Syed Adeel
06-07-2010, 10:18 AM
AK sir do you hear me????

AK47
06-07-2010, 10:20 AM
@Sahibzada bro.............Welcome to the forum and nice "introductory" item above, congrats!

Sahibzada bro, plz note that this thread is about the Baikal MP-446 and quite some discussion is going on here, I would appreciate if you could click the Handguns section and then click "Post new topic" and introduce your beauty above in a separate thread, with some more and better pics, if possible, this gun has been awaited for quite some time! :)

Furthermore, kindly let us know of any reviews/"cherry popping", if you have used it, it seems somehow to me it's still in the box only! ;) Also share price plz. Thanks. :)

AK47
06-07-2010, 10:22 AM
@Syed Adeel...........I would like to "hear" you, bro, proceed plz!

Syed Adeel
06-07-2010, 10:26 AM
oHH thanks sir

AK47
06-07-2010, 10:30 AM
@Syed Adeel............I feel you wanted to say something, yet backed off! :D

In any case, I'm a regular visitor of your town, especially during you "Lychee" seasons, so let me hear from you. :)

Email: wahstar1@hotmail.com.

Syed Adeel
06-07-2010, 10:38 AM
Actually wanted to learn many things from some senior members, but unfortunately most of them are a bit away. Wanted to meet sir Gilani and will meet him Insha ALLAH. now read that you are in Wah so became very happy as I am in Taxila,. It would be a matter of honour and an opportunity to learn, which is obviously achieved here on the forum as well still I believe sitting in person in the company of members like you would be of much avail sir. So it is requested that FIDVI ko mulaqat ka sharf inayat kia jai. Ain nawazish ho gi sir. My mail is lipizzanar@gmail.com

Syed Adeel
06-07-2010, 10:50 AM
Thanks sir. Im grateful.

Crazy Shooter
06-07-2010, 02:15 PM
Actually wanted to learn many things from some senior members, but unfortunately most of them are a bit away. Wanted to meet sir Gilani and will meet him Insha ALLAH. now read that you are in Wah so became very happy as I am in Taxila,. It would be a matter of honour and an opportunity to learn, which is obviously achieved here on the forum as well still I believe sitting in person in the company of members like you would be of much avail sir. So it is requested that FIDVI ko mulaqat ka sharf inayat kia jai. Ain nawazish ho gi sir. My mail is lipizzanar@gmail.com

Dear brother Syed Adeel you are just an hour away from my home town and an hour away from AK47 brother but obviously I am not an expert like AK47 brother and whenever you plan to visit AK47 brother do tell me I would love to see him with ya I am from mansehra my email is viking_mp446@hotmail.com

SPAYPANTHER
06-07-2010, 02:26 PM
I just think that now a days manufacturer are trying to make their handguns more light but I see that Baikal make its 2010 model more heavier by putting more steel…

Sahibzada_Jafar
06-07-2010, 05:39 PM
Dear Ak47 bro i have checked that gun it worked awesome i checked almost 200 rounds in taurus 809. I would like to tell you all my friends over here and it would be my personal opinion that baikal MP-446 is a failed Gun in pakistan and iam 100% sure that those MP-446 guns Which are available in pakistan are not made By USSR may be it made in China or in Other country under the authority of USSR they use only name and trade mark of baikal and USSR , its only my opinion .

SPAYPANTHER
06-07-2010, 08:16 PM
Dear Ak47 bro i have checked that gun it worked awesome i checked almost 200 rounds in taurus 809. I would like to tell you all my friends over here and it would be my personal opinion that baikal MP-446 is a failed Gun in pakistan and iam 100% sure that those MP-446 guns Which are available in pakistan are not made By USSR may be it made in China or in Other country under the authority of USSR they use only name and trade mark of baikal and USSR , its only my opinion .
:o any prove of that bro

Sahibzada_Jafar
06-07-2010, 08:21 PM
Prove for baikal MP-446 ?

SPAYPANTHER
06-07-2010, 08:35 PM
Prove for baikal MP-446 ?
yes

Gilani
06-07-2010, 08:56 PM
I would like to tell you all my friends over here and it would be my personal opinion that baikal MP-446 is a failed Gun in pakistan and iam 100% sure that those MP-446 guns Which are available in pakistan are not made By USSR may be it made in China or in Other country under the authority of USSR they use only name and trade mark of baikal and USSR , its only my opinion .

Sahibzada sahib, any details of this startling revelation. :mad:

Aquarius
06-07-2010, 09:04 PM
Dear Ak47 bro i have checked that gun it worked awesome i checked almost 200 rounds in taurus 809. I would like to tell you all my friends over here and it would be my personal opinion that baikal MP-446 is a failed Gun in pakistan and iam 100% sure that those MP-446 guns Which are available in pakistan are not made By USSR may be it made in China or in Other country under the authority of USSR they use only name and trade mark of baikal and USSR , its only my opinion .

:rolleyes: :o

Sahibzada_Jafar
06-07-2010, 09:08 PM
When i checked MP-446 and i used that i realized myself not any one told me about that , i just thought that it was not genuine russian Gun , so thats why i didn't buy this gun although i realy wanted to buy baikal mp-446. if iam wrong you may clear my concept regarding that matter.

Denovo87
06-07-2010, 09:17 PM
aaaahhh .... how can we clear your concept bro? you simply didnot like it, thats totaly your personal prefference.

If you have complain or issue with any of the Viking's parts, operations, performance etc please write that down we will love to discuss it in detail.

SPAYPANTHER
06-07-2010, 11:54 PM
+1 denovo its the mater of like un like:lol:

Gilani
07-07-2010, 12:56 AM
Sahibzada sahib, please share your experience with us basing on which you have passed an absolute judgment and declared Viking a failed gun in Pakistan. It would be good education for all of us. I mean did you find it un-reliable and there were too many FTFs and FTEs? Or did you find it very inaccurate and bullets were hitting feet apart even from 10 M? Or did you find any serious manufacturing flaws in it like the barrel bursted or the slide cracked or the frame broke when you extensively fired this gun. And what significant differences did you find in MP446 Viking that you tested from other Russian guns which made you feel it is made in China? Please share your first hand experience with us :)

kasana
07-07-2010, 01:07 AM
+1 gilani sir.


Waiting for sahabzada,s reply.

Crazy Shooter
07-07-2010, 04:07 AM
I have been comparing MP 446 to MP 443 in my previous posts my focus was the barrel quality of these two models which I believe no one agreed that the barrel of MP 446 is weakened to stop the civilians to fire 7N21 and 7N31 I still believe that the barrel of MP 446 is weaker then MP 443 which is a pure military version but I also believe that the barrel of MP 446 is better then any other gun available in pakistan I personally prefer MP 446 over many other expensive handguns in market, now coming to Sahibzada brother statement that MP 446 is a failed gun in Pakistan I am surprised because I have so far passed 1800+ rounds from its barrel and not a single FTF or FTE and as far as brother statement is considered that this gun is being manufactured in some other country under russians license or whatever I don't agree to this because I have seen permits with a dealer in which he was allowed to import 500 MP 446 pistols from Russia maybe brother wants a good finish and the rough finish of mp 446 made him say that this is not an russian gun well Sahibzada brother in most of the countries when manufacturing a gun is considered beauty matters like in USA manufacturing a gun is an art they focus on the beauty the good finish and in russia its a matter of reliability they go for the best quality and give very less attention to the look we can take the example of Baikal's MP 153 an excellent gun but the finish is not better then any turkish semiautomatic Baikal's O/U is much better then the Turkish Optima O/U but the finish of Baikal is not like Optima's, I do have few reservations about MP 446 I still don't know why they are making changes to handguns very often every MP 446 is different from other is this a policy that every production will have a little change or they are just trying to improve the standard ? if its like improving the standard then there is a problem it means the feedback Baikal is getting over Mp 446 is not good ? and they are making these changes on complaints ? like brother Denovo posted pics of 2009 and 2010 models and some polymer parts are removed with metal parts in 2010 model this is something serious a little change in the look is ok but why to remove some polymer parts with metal ones ? Baikal got some complaints regarding bursting or KABOOM ? these are all my doubts I don't have any information regarding all this because I am completely satisfied with my Viking MP 446 after firing 1800 rounds so far in less then 3 months , Baikal don't allow the importers from any other country to import the pistols unless the demand is 500 handguns so what happens here is that one dealer imports these guns and distributes among others according to their demand , I am also scared of clones but so far I didn't come across any in market it took almost 4 years of hard work to copy Glock lets see how much our brothers in darra take now to copy MP 446 , so far I am 95% sure there is no clone of MP 446 in market ,

PA
07-07-2010, 08:59 AM
Can anyone please send me a picture of latest viking MP 446 pistol and also please what features tell that it is a 2010 model viking pistol ?

In Karachi this pistol comes in a paper box, unlike the box of Glock or Stouger Couger, is it ok ??

SPAYPANTHER
07-07-2010, 09:05 AM
welcome PA
bro here is already two thread on MP446 so plz avoid to make same kind of new topics

SPAYPANTHER
07-07-2010, 09:36 AM
good explain crazy shooter :)

Crazy Shooter
07-07-2010, 11:33 AM
good explain crazy shooter :)

Thanks you SPAYPANTHER brother :)

javed354
07-07-2010, 11:56 AM
Dear PA Brothr,
Welsome to PakGuns family secondly please find the liks below view the details about Viking MP 446.

http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=4983

thanks.

PA
07-07-2010, 03:30 PM
I bought one brand new Baikal viking MP 446 today for Rs 52000, manufacture date is December 2009 and bought a carrying box for 1200, otherwise it came in a paper box

Crazy Shooter
07-07-2010, 04:13 PM
I bought one brand new Baikal viking MP 446 today for Rs 52000, manufacture date is December 2009 and bought a carrying box for 1200, otherwise it came in a paper box

congrats PA brother yes it comes in a cardboard box with a manual and a cleaning rod mine is also december 2009 model :) its a nice piece brother once again congrats on your new wise purchase

PA
07-07-2010, 05:53 PM
@Crazy shooter
Thank you
I bought it from Karachi
How much did you buy it for ?

SPAYPANTHER
07-07-2010, 10:16 PM
@ PA and crazy shooter

brother as you both have same models but we know that now a days different types of baikals are available in market , SO! i just want to conform that your hand guns are same completely or thay also have some difference...

so plz it would be good if both of you post some disassembled pics of your handguns

aldofhitler
07-07-2010, 10:52 PM
paper box????? howz this...

aldofhitler
07-07-2010, 11:08 PM
bhai post some pics of paper box

kasana
08-07-2010, 12:12 AM
spy bro 2010 model has many miner changes in its internal body. internal steel frame and its colour is changed. in 2009 model internal steel frame was in black colour and looked hard and heat treated while in new model it looks like silver. i dont know about its hardness and strenth. waiting for sir skeeter,s coments over new model. this model is available in lahore market.

SPAYPANTHER
08-07-2010, 01:30 AM
@ kasana

which model do you have bro

Crazy Shooter
11-07-2010, 04:13 PM
@Crazy shooter
Thank you
I bought it from Karachi
How much did you buy it for ?

I bought it for 55K but few months back I also know the baikal viking has been sold up to 85k with some dealers in the start though the price is pretty much affordable its 45K now with my dealer

Crazy Shooter
11-07-2010, 04:14 PM
@ PA and crazy shooter

brother as you both have same models but we know that now a days different types of baikals are available in market , SO! i just want to conform that your hand guns are same completely or thay also have some difference...

so plz it would be good if both of you post some disassembled pics of your handguns

Brother my Viking pics are on my collection

JawadKhanJadoon
15-08-2010, 08:24 PM
@Crazy shooter
Thank you
I bought it from Karachi
How much did you buy it for ?

I bought it for 55K but few months back I also know the baikal viking has been sold up to 85k with some dealers in the start though the price is pretty much affordable its 45K now with my dealer

Who is the dealer sir? I am curious

BulletHog
16-08-2010, 03:19 PM
BTW- All STEEL GRACH is coming into LAHAORE market in a couple of weeks.
Zubair Bhai any update ???

BulletHog
16-08-2010, 03:22 PM
BTW friends, since we haven't seen the Yarygin in hi-res yet on PakGuns, here is link for enthusiasts:

http://vitalykuzmin.net/?q=node/290

Crazy Shooter
17-08-2010, 04:52 AM
I dnt think that MP 443 Yarigin ( Grach ) will ever show up here in market but maybe after few years in black market well the steel version Zubair brother talked about months ago was the MP 446 in which few polymer parts were replaced with steel and in 2010 model we can clearly see the changes made to MP 446 by baikal people

kasana
17-08-2010, 01:08 PM
BTW friends, since we haven't seen the Yarygin in hi-res yet on PakGuns, here is link for enthusiasts:

http://vitalykuzmin.net/?q=node/290
Barrel and internal parts of grach are same to mp446.

Arsenal763
17-08-2010, 02:38 PM
This is original Baikal Viking MP446.. "Viking" is missing from your pistol
http://s3.postimage.org/fZbhS.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqfZbhS)

Gilani
17-08-2010, 11:37 PM
I dnt think that MP 443 Yarigin ( Grach ) will ever show up here in market but maybe after few years in black market well the steel version Zubair brother talked about months ago was the MP 446 in which few polymer parts were replaced with steel and in 2010 model we can clearly see the changes made to MP 446 by baikal people
As per the information given on page 9 of owner's manual of Viking, it is available in following versions:
- a version with a plastic frame, non-adjustable or adjustable rear sight, 112.8 or 120 mm barrel and a 18 or 10 round magazine capacity.

- a version with a plastic frame, non-adjustable, 112.8 or 120 mm barrel and a 18 or 10 round magazine capacity and a bright nickle plated slide.

- a version with a steel frame, adjustable rear sight, 120 mm barrel and a 18 or 10 round magazine capacity.

(the language has been copied from MP446 Viking owner's manual, para 2.1.2)

The one seen by Zubair sahib in steel frame may be the third version :)

coolbox18
17-08-2010, 11:52 PM
Gilani sb, you sure have an eye for fine details.
But does this suggest that grach and viking steel version are different?

Omer571
18-08-2010, 06:11 AM
Now, how in the world did i miss this thread !!!!!!!!!

Aiwa
20-08-2010, 01:48 AM
Aslam-o-alikom
dearest brothers i am new to this site and Alhamdo lillah i have boro Viking mp446 gun can any body help me to assemble or disassemble this gun ?

Aquarius
20-08-2010, 02:10 AM
Aiwa brother congrats on your excellent purchase.. watch this you tube.. its in Russian Language, but could be helpfull.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxnsTsnZe3g&feature=related

Enjoy and happy shooting...... :)

Crazy Shooter
20-08-2010, 02:33 AM
Gilani sb, you sure have an eye for fine details.
But does this suggest that grach and viking steel version are different?

Yes they are different on the owner manual of MP 446 its written that MP 446 is available in the these versions which Gilani brother explained on the site baikal clearly says that MP 446 is the civilian version and MP 443 is the military version the versions Gilani Brother mentioned are sub versions of MP 446 of MP 446 is available in steel version thn why its still called MP 446 not MP 443 ?

Gilani
20-08-2010, 08:25 PM
Yes they are different on the owner manual of MP 446 its written that MP 446 is available in the these versions which Gilani brother explained on the site baikal clearly says that MP 446 is the civilian version and MP 443 is the military version the versions Gilani Brother mentioned are sub versions of MP 446 of MP 446 is available in steel version thn why its still called MP 446 not MP 443 ?
The site talks about the things in general whereas the exact and authenticated details are found in the owner's manual of that handgun, IMHO.

If the owner's manual of MP446 Viking says that there is a steel version with 120 mm barrel and adjustable sights than I have no reasons to disbelieve in this statement :) The last part of the comment should be better asked from IZH Baikal. They must be knowing the reason that why the steel version is still called MP446 and not MP443 :)

As per my limited knowledge, the weapon which is currently being supplied to Russian Army can not be sold in civilian market with the same nomenclature though it can be sold to other armies / LEAs on the basis of a defence contract between two countries. However, the same weapon can be sold in civilian market with a changed nomenclature and perhaps with few cosmetic / minor changes. That is probably why we see Russians selling the same weapon, with minor changes, in the civilian market with a different name / nomenclature. :)

Denovo sahib, can we have that movie clip where a Canadian review writer described that the barrel and chamber of Viking are exactly the same as in Grach ................. just forgot in which thread it was given :)

Denovo87
20-08-2010, 08:43 PM
Here is the link Gilani bro, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPUo_UX2r74&NR=1 .

Also will suggest members to visit www.vinzersports.com (http://www.vinzersports.com) to have an idea what exactly Viking MP446 is priced at in the west :P

Gilani
20-08-2010, 09:01 PM
Thanks Denovo sahib.

Memebers, you can clearly see in the video above that the Viking shown in the movie has the same barrel that military version Grach has. And if you compare, it is the same barrel which comes in most of the Vikings available in Pakistan. Actually all Vikings that I have seen have the same shape of the chamber.

However, the reviewer also mentioned that a different design of chamber and also be found in some other MP446 Viking models though he did not comment whether the chamber in sporting models differs in performance from those in military models. This means that Baikal guys are not really very fussy about Viking designs and keep changing them as per the requirement / demand.

Good thing is that the Vikings available in Pakistan have the barrel / chamber designed for the military version. :D

Crazy Shooter
21-08-2010, 12:02 AM
Thanks Denovo sahib.

Memebers, you can clearly see in the video above that the Viking shown in the movie has the same barrel that military version Grach has. And if you compare, it is the same barrel which comes in most of the Vikings available in Pakistan. Actually all Vikings that I have seen have the same shape of the chamber.

However, the reviewer also mentioned that a different design of chamber and also be found in some other MP446 Viking models though he did not comment whether the chamber in sporting models differs in performance from those in military models. This means that Baikal guys are not really very fussy about Viking designs and keep changing them as per the requirement / demand.

Good thing is that the Vikings available in Pakistan have the barrel / chamber designed for the military version. :D

Gilani Sir/Brother/Sahib :) I have no doubt that you are one who has the best knowledge and exp with handguns I have great respect for you in my heart though I never said this before but I would love to be in your company atleast once in my life :) now lets come to the point in which I am not saying that what information you have provided is wrong or just your own perception even its your own I believe its right the owner manual of viking says that MP 446 is also avlble in steel version and civilians can buy that too manual is also in russian language which means they are also addressing the civilian gun market of russia if its not legal to to to give the same gun which is in use of military to civilians thn how can we say that MP 446 in steel version is MP 443 ? because military handgun can not be sold to civilians I never said that MP 446 and MP 443 are different from chamber they can be same and they are, the only thing I have in my mind is the the quality of barrel of MP 443 is better thn MP 446 but also again I am satisfied with my Viking more thn glock,H&k, or berreta , I think one can't say anything about the quality of barrel just by looking at it unless we hold the both barrels in our hands or we have some techinal/scientific data how the barrel is manufactured , I am also looking for these answers this is what I think I have few things to support my statement which I shared in my previous post in the same thread but not enough to believe ,

Gilani
21-08-2010, 12:58 AM
Crazy Shooter brother, I am grateful for the comments :) We will inshallah meet when I next visit Abbotabad.

You are right that so far we don't have a conclusive evidence that the quality of barrel of the sporting version, ie, MP446 has been reduced from that of MP443, the military version, in order to make it incapable of firing the high pressure 7N21 and 7N31 rounds, which are purely intended for military use. However, I think we do not disagree on this that the military version barrel is capable of firing 7N21 & 7N31. Is it?

Now, the video shown above clearly mentions the difference between a military and a sporting barrel. As per the reviewer, the one shown in the video is a military barrel. When I compare the barrel of my MP446 with the barrel of MP446 shown in the video, they are exactly the same. If that be the case, and if we feel that the information provided by the reviewer is authentic than the MP446 that I own and those owned by all my friends (including yours also I believe) have a military version barrel fitted in it (and I have no reasons so far to disbelief in the information provided in the video because the reviewer is doing the review for Vinzer Sport who are the authorised importers of Viking in Canada).

Unless we find evidence to disbelieve in this video or find some other evidence which conclusively negates this video, we all should be happy that we possess Vikings which are capable of taking very high pressure rounds. Though 7N21 etc may never be available in Pakistan and even if they are available, would hardly be of any use for common users like us, we can safely assume that our Vikings can undergo any kind of ordeal with regards to high chamber pressure and would have a very long life with standard 9x19 ammos.

thanks and regards

Dr Zakir
21-08-2010, 01:56 AM
I very much agree with you gillani sahib .But apart for these very technical stuff . The barrel of Viking is unlike barrel of any other gun that's for sure . So it is very much likely that it does what grach does

Aquarius
21-08-2010, 02:10 AM
Agreed + the video clearly shows that the Military version has a chamber with a hunch on top of it, means more metal mass for more abuse, while the sporting version doesn't have this hunch and its straight so this means (as already stated by Gilani bro) that the ones exported here are military barrels... :)

Crazy Shooter
21-08-2010, 04:55 AM
Thank you Gilani brother it would be a pleasure to host you here and honor too :) Dear brother the video link Denovo brother has pasted didnt play on laptop that time so just watched it after sehri in this video the guy says that this is actually a military version's barrel because the sporting version does not not have such borders and it comes with a 90 degree border all of us who owns viking or knows about this beautiful handgun have not seen the 90 degree border in the pieces avlble here in pakistani market I have an eye on these two handguns for an ample time now luckily I have one MP 446 but I love to know and compare it with MP 443 brother MP 443 now comes in 2 versiosns one with the border 90 degree and other just like the MP 446 most of us own and know I am uploading few pics in which you can clearly see that MP 443 has a border which is not like the one we have in MP 446, MP 443 comes with border which is exactly 90 degree,the first pic is of MP 443 you can clearly see that the border is exactly 90 degree the 2nd pic is also of MP 443 with the same border 3rd pic of MP 446 and the border is not 90 degree in the last pic I have compared MP 443 and MP 446 and it shows that the border of both handguns is different we have not seen such change in MP 446 we have here in pakistan though baikal is changing the design every year but such a major change in MP 446 has not been seen so far , one more thing which I want to add now that MP 446 never came with 90 degree border I have not seen so far and MP 443 comes in both the older models are with such straight chambers and newer versions have the border just like we have in our MP 446 vikings, I have another doubt now about these two handguns but will wait for your reply first because maybe your reply answer my question before I ask it ,

http://s2.postimage.org/sjSS.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TssjSS)

http://s2.postimage.org/soS9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TssoS9)

http://s2.postimage.org/srmi.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Tssrmi)

http://s2.postimage.org/stRr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsstRr)

12GAUGE
21-08-2010, 04:55 AM
AoA Everybody

I have seen quiet many thread here which eventually turn into "can baikal fire the all magical/mystical 72N1 rounds?". well....in a bid to finally put this debate to end, I have decided to jump in and offer my two cents on the subject. Kindly accept my apologies if my opinions do not live up to member expectations.

Here we go:

first of all, why are we even discussing something which is absolutely useless for us to begin with? what I mean to say is that the probability of someone finding such an ammo is as remote as going to Mars for some family vacation. in our life time that is. therefore even if baikal has such a capability, its pointless to discuss it, let alone brag about it.

Second, there is no hard evidence that Baikal can fire the "mystical" rounds. similarly there is not even a single shred of evidence that it cannot. as of today, all the talk and long discussions are based on circumstantial evidence. not documented fact and I'm also not doing anything different.

Third, if through deductive reasoning we can conclude that baikal can fire the "mystical" round, we can also conclude that a chicken can lay an elephant's egg. believe me, both hypotheses are in the same ball park. if you do not believe me then I welcome members to debate whether Taurus PT92/99 can or cannot fire a "XXX888XXX" round. this XXX888XXX round has been designed to fire man sized targets at the north pole while standing at the south pole. the mean deviation of the round has been calculated at 2 microns (center to center) at gazillion yards. Be prepared, I can even prove that Taurus PT92/99 can lay an egg if sing your melody right.

Fourth, lets talk about the manual. you know that little book in which manufacturer usually tells something important about their product. the same book that we can consult if we ever doubt any ability of the product. sometimes, just reading the manual can save us from spending countless hours in debating something otherwise a total non-issue. if we look at the manual, we'll see that Baikal lists MP446 Viking as a "Training and Sporting Pistol". why would a manufacturer intentionally list a handgun for training or sporting purposes having an ability to fire the "hardcore military" ammo?

Fifth, Russia is not a country where civilians are allowed to own handguns, let alone owning handguns that can fire the "uber hardcore military" rounds. I'm intentionally trying to avoid using the actual designation of the ammo. quiet difficult for me get it right.

Sixth, why would a company invest in a handgun which can fire the "mystical round" but give it in the hands that do not need to fire such a round. from purely economics point of view, its not feasible. A sound minded (specially a manufacturer nearing bankruptcy, HINT: BAIKAL) would never make such a product. such a manufacturer would rather save cost in a bid to increase profit margins.

Seventh, there is a little thing called PROOFING. every firearm gets a proof mark, designating it "fit for service" for that particular type of ammo. if we look at baikal's barrel, its clearly proofed marked with 9*19. I have yet to see a baikal MP446 Viking proofed marked with 7N21 and 7N31 proof marks. now don't give me explanation that Russians are super smart and they don't want the public to know that they have a nasty killing machine in their hands. This would not fly. cause it kinda sounds funny, "comrade! give them the ability but don't tell them cause its bad for business. shhhhh!"

Eighth, Lets assume Baikal MP446 Viking is an "export-only" product. would you, being a manufacture export a product that can fire armor piercing bullets? while knowing that such a handgun would be instantaneously labeled as Cop killer or a terrorist's handgun.

Ninth, my take on the enormous size of the Baikal MP 446 Viking barrel would be that since its dimensionally same as the GRACH model, it was important to make Viking in same dimensions as well to avoid any serious functional changes. another possibility would be to make it extra strong to compete with several foreign brands that are available in Euro market for alot less money. but it still does not suggest in any way 7N21 and 7N31 variant firing capability.

Tenth, lets talk on the strength of baikal's barrels. i'm assuming that the Russians are not using any such technology that it out of this world and so top secret (specially after the fall of the iron curtain) that the advanced Europeans have not caught up with. from muzzle end or should I say, at the thickest part, the barrel diameter for the famously weak GLOCK 17 is 17.7mm . the barrel diameter of famously insignificant SIG P226 is 15mm. the barrel dia of famously worthless HK USP (9mm handgun) is 16mm. but what about the symbol of brute strength, the Baikal?. well, the barrel diameter is just 13mm. unless Russians are using some sort of out of this world, unheard off and sworn into absolute secrecy type technology I would say, the barrel diameter (from the muzzle where its supposed to be the thickest part of Baikal's barrel) suggests its nothing out of the ordinary and hardly impressive.

Eleventh, quoting importers/dealers might sound logical and quiet convincing I must admit, however members are requested to understand that even exporters/dealers are required to boast their product's ability in a bid to increase sales. specially when they know that "the magical" bullet is non existent in parts of the world where they intend to sell that product. its just another sales pitch gentlemen!. They know there is no accountability as long as long as their customers do not have access to armor piercing rounds. another thing that we must understand is that all guarantees should be in writing. now you know why responsible manufacturers always write "manufacturer reserves the right to change specs without notice".

I was once told by an importer that Russian firearm steel is the best in the world cause they used metal from recycled T-1/T-2 Tanks and it will not rust even when submerged in salt water for 100 years. good thing I never tested his claim. I simply checked the manual for any mentioning of such thing and ignored the whole idea.

Summary:

nothing can be said about Baikal's ability to fire 7N21 and 7N31 ammo. its all talk and no hard evidence. proving is as difficult (and easy if connecting dots is the name of your game) as rejecting. therefore this particular attribute/quality/variable should be omitted while evaluating Baikal MP446 Viking.

Regards.

p.s. now lets start another debate "it can fire". :) i'm all prepared for that as well. again with 11 points to prove that it can. :cool:

Crazy Shooter
21-08-2010, 06:48 AM
Dear Brother 12 Guage this is all what I have been discussing since long in this thread if you look at my posts I have been talking this that there is no evidence that MP 446 can fire such hot rounds I have also said that I have no hard proof to establish it but what I believe is that MP 446 is not meant to fire such rounds and if I am not wrong you believe that too I have also talked about the cost that why would a company be investing more in a gun which is going in the hands of civilians where they have no access to such military rounds ?
anyways I AGREE TO ALL 10 POINTS AND WILL BE SUPPORTING YOU IN COMING 11 POINTS IF ANYONE SAYS THIS HANDGUN CAN FIRE MILITARY ROUNDS :p

Regards :)

Crazy Shooter
21-08-2010, 07:08 AM
Agreed + the video clearly shows that the Military version has a chamber with a hunch on top of it, means more metal mass for more abuse, while the sporting version doesn't have this hunch and its straight so this means (as already stated by Gilani bro) that the ones exported here are military barrels... :)

Brother I have never seen the sporting version with a straight chmaber but I have seen military version with straight chamber if you have pic of MP 446 or any source please do share would love to see a MP 446 with straight chamber

Syed Adeel
21-08-2010, 04:19 PM
@ 12 Gauge sahib very well elaborated sir and I totally agree.

Dr Zakir
21-08-2010, 06:44 PM
All your points just prove the fact that it can fire THE ammo . Russians make simple things they don't want to make different varities to have extra cost but same variety with different names

Crazy Shooter
21-08-2010, 07:16 PM
I think MP 446 Viking has now become the most hot topic on pakguns with all the expert opinions like our most respect Gilani Brother, 12 Guage brother, Dr Zakir, Denovo Brother but everyone here including me accepts that this is the best handgun in our market in its price range and even beats the items which far 3 or 4 times expensive because of import restrictions, lets finish it like this that this handgun can fire any type of bullets available for us in market when we will get HIGH PRESSURE military rounds we will re open this debate for everyone because noone here so far came up with any authentic data regarding the diff between these two handguns I believe there is a difference which many among us disagree,

Crazy Shooter
21-08-2010, 07:35 PM
Crazy Shooter brother, I am grateful for the comments :) We will inshallah meet when I next visit Abbotabad.

You are right that so far we don't have a conclusive evidence that the quality of barrel of the sporting version, ie, MP446 has been reduced from that of MP443, the military version, in order to make it incapable of firing the high pressure 7N21 and 7N31 rounds, which are purely intended for military use. However, I think we do not disagree on this that the military version barrel is capable of firing 7N21 & 7N31. Is it?

Now, the video shown above clearly mentions the difference between a military and a sporting barrel. As per the reviewer, the one shown in the video is a military barrel. When I compare the barrel of my MP446 with the barrel of MP446 shown in the video, they are exactly the same. If that be the case, and if we feel that the information provided by the reviewer is authentic than the MP446 that I own and those owned by all my friends (including yours also I believe) have a military version barrel fitted in it (and I have no reasons so far to disbelief in the information provided in the video because the reviewer is doing the review for Vinzer Sport who are the authorised importers of Viking in Canada).

Unless we find evidence to disbelieve in this video or find some other evidence which conclusively negates this video, we all should be happy that we possess Vikings which are capable of taking very high pressure rounds. Though 7N21 etc may never be available in Pakistan and even if they are available, would hardly be of any use for common users like us, we can safely assume that our Vikings can undergo any kind of ordeal with regards to high chamber pressure and would have a very long life with standard 9x19 ammos.

thanks and regards

Gilani Brother I am waiting for your reply on the Video because in this video the guys says that sporting version have straight borders I have not seen any MP 446 with a straight chamber but I have seen MP 443 the military version with straight chamber does this makes this video unreliable ? because the guy seems to have no knowledge about this handgun its just a kind of advertising and attracting people that they can have a pure russian military weapon in canada ? also your comments on the comparison of these two models I have post pics comparing both and you can clearly see the military version with straight chamber

kasana
21-08-2010, 09:34 PM
Agreed + the video clearly shows that the Military version has a chamber with a hunch on top of it, means more metal mass for more abuse, while the sporting version doesn't have this hunch and its straight so this means (as already stated by Gilani bro) that the ones exported here are military barrels... :)

Brother I have never seen the sporting version with a straight chmaber but I have seen military version with straight chamber if you have pic of MP 446 or any source please do share would love to see a MP 446 with straight chamber
Crazy shooter bro plz checkout this thread.
http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=75092#p75092

Seven magnum,s viking is with straight chamber. The chamber of new model of grach is not straight like 2003 model. New barrel looks same like viking,s.

Gilani
22-08-2010, 01:03 AM
So far, there is no conclusive evidence given by anyone of us that Baikal MP446 Viking is capable of firing high pressure ammo or not and we are just beating about the bush. Practically speaking, it does not actually matter much because we will probably never have a legal access to these ammo, IMHO. The discussion is getting into a stage where it is becoming more of an exchange of argument than exchange of knowledge. We all may keep holding our beliefs till the time we don't find a conclusive evidence of what we are saying. Good luck :)

Dr Zakir
22-08-2010, 01:09 AM
sir we will find ammo and we will test it also . kindly wikipedia 9*19 parabellum and look at the psi , and let me know your thoughts

9mm
22-08-2010, 01:25 AM
I think MP 446 Viking has now become the most hot topic on pakguns with all the expert opinions like our most respect Gilani Brother, 12 Guage brother, Dr Zakir, Denovo Brother but everyone here including me accepts that this is the best handgun in our market in its price range and even beats the items which far 3 or 4 times expensive because of import restrictions, lets finish it like this that this handgun can fire any type of bullets available for us in market when we will get HIGH PRESSURE military rounds we will re open this debate for everyone because noone here so far came up with any authentic data regarding the diff between these two handguns I believe there is a difference which many among us disagree,

Very well said ! I totally agree with u !

12GAUGE
22-08-2010, 01:26 AM
So far, there is no conclusive evidence given by anyone of us that Baikal MP446 Viking is capable of firing high pressure ammo or not and we are just beating about the bush. Practically speaking, it does not actually matter much because we will probably never have a legal access to these ammo

+1 Sir. This is exactly what I have been trying to say all along. proving Baikal's ability to safely fire 7N21 & 7N31 ammo is as difficult (or easy) as rejecting Baikal's ability to fire 7N21 & 7N31 ammo.

Regards.

Denovo87
22-08-2010, 01:31 AM
Just found this breifish article on Viking published in a Spanish arms & ammu magazine, its a good read in banging heads to the wall situation,

http://translate.google.com.pk/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.revistaarmas.com/1459/prueba-exclusiva-pistola-baikal-viking-mp-446-la-revolucion-rusa.html&ei=wzFwTNr8DYi4vgOuvcFB&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBwQ7gEwATgU&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dbaikal%2Bviking%2Bmp%2B446%26start%3D 20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26prmd%3Di

Aiwa
22-08-2010, 01:56 AM
Aiwa brother congrats on your excellent purchase.. watch this you tube.. its in Russian Language, but could be helpfull.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxnsTsnZe3g&feature=related

Enjoy and happy shooting...... :)

Aquaris bro than for reply and thanx 4 the gun bro. :)
actually bro i know how 2 open but i want to know how to open it complete any how thanx alot. :/

Denovo87
22-08-2010, 02:01 AM
Another review on Viking,non english but thanks again to google translate,

http://translate.google.com.pk/translate?hl=en&sl=hr&u=http://www.zrno.ba/zrno/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26view%3Darticle% 26id%3D292:pitolj-mp-446-viking-moderni-slubeni-pitolj-na-ruski-nain%26catid%3D37:pitolji%26Itemid%3D72&ei=cjtwTOboEYm4uQP8qZFC&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBkQ7gEwADgy&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dbaikal%2Bviking%2Bmp%2B446%26start%3D 50%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26prmd%3Di

Aquarius
22-08-2010, 02:38 AM
Very good and informative link Denovo brother.. :)

12GAUGE
22-08-2010, 02:46 AM
@Denovo87

Sir jee. very good finds I must say. both articles speak high of the russian beast and no doubt it that the gun deserves the praise. both articles clearly establish that Viking is based on the military PYA YARGIN/GRACH model and GRACH is capable of firing 72N1 round however none of the articles say anything about Viking's ability in this regard. again there is no conclusive/solid evidence that it can or it cannot.

secondly, one of the articles clearly states: 446 "Viking" means the civilian version if the qualification of the author is assumed to be flawless, if the credibility of the author is taken to be flawless then Baikal Viking is not a combat handgun and it is rightly said in the manual that it is a sporting/training pistol.

another interesting point: "However, recall that the predecessor of the Viking had to operate with cartridges of high pressure, which I do not think has been overlooked in this latest version to bring strength and durability."

it clearly establishes that GRACH has the ability to fire 72N1 round however leaves it to the speculation of the author regarding the capability of Viking with respect to firing 72N1. "I do not think" says the author. speculation or the author is merely expressing his personal opinion.

similarly, in the other article the author says: " MP 443 Grach pistol is high-capacity box of 17 rounds, made entirely from steel with a conventional DA / SA tripping action. He is capable to sustain the high operating pressures, which develops special ammunition caliber 9x19 7N21 high power breakdown, which is in official use in the Russian army"

the statement only suggest Grach's ability to fire 7N21 round but says nothing about Viking's ability in this matter.

Conclusion:

rejecting baikal's ability to fire 7N21 rounds is as difficult/easy as proving that it can fire the mystical and magical round commonly known as 7N21.

Regards.

Denovo87
22-08-2010, 03:40 AM
Sir jee I never posted above links to prove viking's ability to handle 7n21 round, just wanted to share these 3rd party reviews on this very less reviewed gun . As long as both articles speak high about this gun I am more happy n confident carrying this piece .

Gilani
22-08-2010, 04:05 AM
Nice share Denovo bhai :)

Crazy Shooter
22-08-2010, 04:14 AM
Agreed + the video clearly shows that the Military version has a chamber with a hunch on top of it, means more metal mass for more abuse, while the sporting version doesn't have this hunch and its straight so this means (as already stated by Gilani bro) that the ones exported here are military barrels... :)

Brother I have never seen the sporting version with a straight chmaber but I have seen military version with straight chamber if you have pic of MP 446 or any source please do share would love to see a MP 446 with straight chamber
Crazy shooter bro plz checkout this thread.
http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=75092#p75092

Seven magnum,s viking is with straight chamber. The chamber of new model of grach is not straight like 2003 model. New barrel looks same like viking,s.

Kasana Brother first of all I am still waiting for your email :) second I have seen the posts of Seven Magnum brother the first 2 pics are the military version MP 443 and Seven Magnum brother wrote that there is no diff between these two models comparing it with the MP 446 except the polymer frame but The military version MP 443 in those two pics have straight chamber I am posting the pics of Seven Magnum brother's viking MP 446 in which you clearly see that Seven Magnum's MP 446 does not have a staright chamber like MP 443 here are the pics I think you are mixing it up with the first two pics those pics are taken from worldguns.ru and its a miliyary version MP 443 not MP 446 the pics below are MP 446 of Seven Magnum I am also attaching a pic of my Viking MP 446 which has the same chamber like Seven Magnum's MP 446,
http://s4.postimage.org/h0hai.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVh0hai)

http://s4.postimage.org/h0oEJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVh0oEJ)


http://s2.postimage.org/3KqJ9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts3KqJ9)

Crazy Shooter
22-08-2010, 04:26 AM
I think MP 446 Viking has now become the most hot topic on pakguns with all the expert opinions like our most respect Gilani Brother, 12 Guage brother, Dr Zakir, Denovo Brother but everyone here including me accepts that this is the best handgun in our market in its price range and even beats the items which far 3 or 4 times expensive because of import restrictions, lets finish it like this that this handgun can fire any type of bullets available for us in market when we will get HIGH PRESSURE military rounds we will re open this debate for everyone because noone here so far came up with any authentic data regarding the diff between these two handguns I believe there is a difference which many among us disagree,

Very well said ! I totally agree with u !
Thank you 9mm brother

9mm
22-08-2010, 05:08 AM
I think MP 446 Viking has now become the most hot topic on pakguns with all the expert opinions like our most respect Gilani Brother, 12 Guage brother, Dr Zakir, Denovo Brother but everyone here including me accepts that this is the best handgun in our market in its price range and even beats the items which far 3 or 4 times expensive because of import restrictions, lets finish it like this that this handgun can fire any type of bullets available for us in market when we will get HIGH PRESSURE military rounds we will re open this debate for everyone because noone here so far came up with any authentic data regarding the diff between these two handguns I believe there is a difference which many among us disagree,

Very well said ! I totally agree with u !
Thank you 9mm brother

any time !
Inshallah I ll also be going fr it next time !
It's on top of
my wish list :)

Crazy Shooter
22-08-2010, 07:10 AM
9mm Brother must go for it best handgun in this price range and even higher price of Glock 17 in international market is 650 US dollars max and if you get a Viking MP 446 its not less then 800 US dollars ,

9mm
22-08-2010, 09:35 AM
9mm Brother must go for it best handgun in this price range and even higher price of Glock 17 in international market is 650 US dollars max and if you get a Viking MP 446 its not less then 800 US dollars ,

yes ur rite !
Many people have cnfirmd this.

kasana
22-08-2010, 11:21 PM
Crazy shooter bro i have sent u 6 mails but havnt rcv ur reply. I think there is a prob in msn.

Aiwa
23-08-2010, 12:31 AM
Allhamdo Lillah i am satisfied that the gun i boro is awesome. any one know what is the price of its magazine i wanna buy it.
and 1 thing more will some body tell where the Special rubber grip is found i also need that as well.

Crazy Shooter
23-08-2010, 04:26 AM
Crazy shooter bro i have sent u 6 mails but havnt rcv ur reply. I think there is a prob in msn.

Kasana brother try sending me an email now I wasn't getting nay email those days some kind of filter was on or what I dnt know much about computers brother :(

Omer571
23-08-2010, 06:12 AM
The Debate must go on !!!!

poor freddie

PA
23-08-2010, 11:07 PM
What must be the muzzle velocity and effective range of MP 446 Viking

coolbox18
24-08-2010, 01:39 AM
What must be the muzzle velocity and effective range of MP 446 Viking
depends on who is throwing the viking!
oh and if u r talking about a bullet fired from it, we have confirmed reports of a kill @100mtrs with pof 2z bullets.

ay_be_why
24-08-2010, 03:34 PM
What must be the muzzle velocity and effective range of MP 446 Viking
depends on who is throwing the viking!
oh and if u r talking about a bullet fired from it, we have confirmed reports of a kill @100mtrs with pof 2z bullets.

http://www.puff.com/forums/vb/images/smilies/drum.gif

osejah haider
24-08-2010, 06:36 PM
aoa all,
hope you all are fine i have a small query and need help from any of the fellow member from any part of the country, I am a viking user and very satisfied with the performance of the hand gun i am desperately looking for extra mags for my weapon and till date have tried quiet a few dealers but no success every one of them comes up with new excuses i will be greatful and obliged if any one can help me out with this the money for the mags will be transfered in advance and i am willing to pay any decent amount please feel free to contact me anytime on my personal email address or cell number provided below best regards god bless you all.

********@yahoo.com

Contacts Deleted.Once someone finds it for you and replies,then you can exchange the contacts.
Mod

Crazy Shooter
24-08-2010, 07:28 PM
Dear Brother getting extra mags for viking is not easy because I have seen extra mags just once with Asia Arms Peshawar don't know about the availability now will confirm asking price that time was 8K sounds crazy paying 8 thousand just for an extra mag ? yes it is but thats how the market is when only one dealer has got the stuff but still am not sure if they still have some pieces left will ask them tom

Aiwa
25-08-2010, 01:34 AM
Salam all
any one can tell me which is the best bullet of 9mm ??? my opinion is Russian luger. :rolleyes:

Gilani
25-08-2010, 04:40 AM
@Aiwa
This thread is regarding Baikal MP446 Viking and not 9mm ammo. Please go through the following link;

http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=151514#p151514

Pakistani
25-08-2010, 10:41 AM
What must be the muzzle velocity and effective range of MP 446 Viking

depends on who is throwing the viking!


Respected CoOlBoX brother,

It seems roza is luging more today haan ?

coolbox18
25-08-2010, 10:59 AM
What must be the muzzle velocity and effective range of MP 446 Viking

depends on who is throwing the viking!


Respected CoOlBoX brother,

It seems roza is luging more today haan ?

just some light hearted fun brother.. :)

Pakistani
25-08-2010, 01:33 PM
just some light hearted fun brother.. :)

Oh. I thought it was some type of virus brother.

Aiwa
26-08-2010, 02:27 AM
@Aiwa
This thread is regarding Baikal MP446 Viking and not 9mm ammo. Please go through the following link;

http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=151514#p151514


oh big bro thanx alot but it was my mistake i wanna say that which bulit are good for viking as i bought the Russian wolf luger what u say ? :/

osejah haider
26-08-2010, 10:46 AM
Dear Brother,
thanks for the reply really appreciate that i can understand your point its very silly of them infact its the attitude of every single business nowadays they always try to manupilate things and make the most of it. I also saw some in karachi the asking price was 5 thousand but when i went there to get it he told me they are gone anyway please do let me know and we will arrange accordingly.
regards,
haider

Crazy Shooter
26-08-2010, 07:09 PM
Dear Brother,
thanks for the reply really appreciate that i can understand your point its very silly of them infact its the attitude of every single business nowadays they always try to manupilate things and make the most of it. I also saw some in karachi the asking price was 5 thousand but when i went there to get it he told me they are gone anyway please do let me know and we will arrange accordingly.
regards,
haider

how many mags do you need ?

kasana
26-08-2010, 07:14 PM
Carzy bro u should change ur email. I think is a prob with ur msn id. I have sent u 9 mails

coolbox18
26-08-2010, 10:50 PM
just some light hearted fun brother.. :)

Oh. I thought it was some type of virus brother.

:o
:)
maybe a malign carcinoma ;)

Crazy Shooter
27-08-2010, 12:40 AM
Carzy bro u should change ur email. I think is a prob with ur msn id. I have sent u 9 mails

Kasana brother I have got your email and replied back check your email

osejah haider
27-08-2010, 01:19 PM
thanks 3 or 4 if you can get them for a decent reasonable price

DUST
31-08-2010, 03:09 AM
i have bought a baikal viking as well after hearing so many good reviews about it on this forum. and i must say i really like its grip and triger. it is a 2010 model as well just like brother doktar's gun. it has white steal inside the frame. a friend of mine has also bought one and it is a 2009 model with black steal inside the frame. i am just curious now that is this change for the good or is it because of the importers to cut the costs?i dont have a camera so i cannot upload any pictuers. will do when i find one.

12 guage once advised doktar to change the gun, why was that so as he did not explain the reason. waiting to hear from you 12guage.
regards

Aiwa
31-08-2010, 03:13 AM
i have bought a baikal viking as well after hearing so many good reviews about it on this forum. and i must say i really like its grip and triger. it is a 2010 model as well just like brother doktar's gun. it has white steal inside the frame. a friend of mine has also bought one and it is a 2009 model with black steal inside the frame. i am just curious now that is this change for the good or is it because of the importers to cut the costs?i dont have a camera so i cannot upload any pictuers. will do when i find one.

12 guage once advised doktar to change the gun, why was that so as he did not explain the reason. waiting to hear from you 12guage.
regards

Congrat bro u have boro a Viking Baikal and there is not any big pro u ask just fire n chk what is good and what may worng . ;)

DUST
18-09-2010, 11:53 PM
i just got amaized by the velocity of my baikal.fired 3 rounds today at a brick wall from 35 meters.2 from baikal and one from my glock 17 and you guys will not believe this the rounds shot from baikal penetrated 2.25 inches deep while the round shot from the glock penetrated only .5 inch.not even an inch.while the round shot from the glock hit the area turned soft coz of the dampness.and i got the bullet which was lying on the ground,didnt even penetrated well.i got so shocked that i wanted to through the glock into the dust bin.dont have the pictures as i didnt had the camera.but i do have the bullet.will soon upload its picture.the ammo was russian.not wolf but the white box one.amaized and in love with the baikal.

DUST
19-09-2010, 12:13 AM
http://s3.postimage.org/znTgJ.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1zu68k9c4/)


just look at the picture the bullet did not even got deshaped. i will upload the pictures if i got to the shooting place again. i repent why did i not had a camera at that time. :(

Aiwa
19-09-2010, 10:36 PM
i dont know why all pplz close further discussion on Viking Baikal all senior members are so quite plz discuss some more i m waiting

Abu Al Hawl
19-09-2010, 10:58 PM
Dear Dust, penetration has got nothing to do with the brand of a pistol, penetration is all about the bullet. well to experience an equal penetration test use any american brand of bullet and use some wooden object to exact measure the depth of penetration. and one thing more if you want to through your g17 in a dust bin just call me i will bring a good dust bin for you so i can take it back with me to dispose off it well :D

Denovo87
19-09-2010, 11:14 PM
Dust bro, I doubt that a gun could increase the velocity/punch of the same ammo more than 4 times than another considerably perfect gun. There must be something wrong with the bullet fired from Glock,
or
When firing at a brick wall; the bullet that lands on the joint (filled with cement) penetrates more than the one that hit centre of a brick. So please check the area all three bullets landed on and confirm if all hit the same surface ?

Aiwa
19-09-2010, 11:51 PM
Dust bro, I doubt that a gun could increase the velocity/punch of the same ammo more than 4 times than another considerably perfect gun. There must be something wrong with the bullet fired from Glock,
or
When firing at a brick wall; the bullet that lands on the joint (filled with cement) penetrates more than the one that hit centre of a brick. So please check the area all three bullets landed on and confirm if all hit the same surface ?


hi deno sir how r u hope fine sir i just wanna know how to open mp 446 viking completely can u share any video related with it or can u plz make a vid for me i m not asking to open it normally as it is i also wanna open all parts can u help me in any way ?????

DUST
20-09-2010, 01:18 AM
@AAH bro i know that but it has something to do with the barrel as well well and i just got so amaized. the shape of the bullet can be seen clearly undisturbed. and i am not that angry u see so i am gonna keep it :)
@ denovo bro this is what i wrote, the bullets shot from the baikal landed in the center of the brick and the bullet shot from the glock landed the soft spot. i doubt that the bullet has to do something with this as the brand was same.

Denovo87
20-09-2010, 01:25 AM
Brother Aiwa, just follow the steps given in its manual, complete knock down procedure is given in it. Take care of doing it in same sequence as its written (disassembly and reassembly both). Its not difficult doing so with the help of manual, you just have to be bit brave ;)

Crazy Shooter
20-09-2010, 02:11 AM
Dear brothers I bought a new baikal viking 3 days ago posting some pics here though this is the first time I am using a digital camera but the quality of pics are not better thn the pics I have taken from my phone I dnt know why well all of you know about baikal viking its just that I want to share my new baby with you :) its the same model I had before forgot to tell you that my cousin had taken it away he was saying that he will return but I dnt know why I dnt like any gun which stays away from my eyes in others hands I just can't feel comfortable with that gun so I asked him to pay the price instead of gettiing a new one for him I got a new one for myself its the same 2009 model which I had before
http://s1.postimage.org/piHIS.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1fd61n8jo/)

http://s1.postimage.org/piMI9.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1fd9cpxj8/)

http://s1.postimage.org/piWGJ.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1fdfyvbic/)

Aiwa
20-09-2010, 02:15 AM
Dear brothers I bought a new baikal viking 3 days ago posting some pics here though this is the first time I am using a digital camera but the quality of pics are not better thn the pics I have taken from my phone I dnt know why well all of you know about baikal viking its just that I want to share my new baby with you :) its the same model I had before forgot to tell you that my cousin had taken it away he was saying that he will return but I dnt know why I dnt like any gun which stays away from my eyes in others hands I just can't feel comfortable with that gun so I asked him to pay the price instead of gettiing a new one for him I got a new one for myself its the same 2009 model which I had before
http://s1.postimage.org/piHIS.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1fd61n8jo/)

http://s1.postimage.org/piMI9.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1fd9cpxj8/)

http://s1.postimage.org/piWGJ.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1fdfyvbic/)


Ohhh congrats alot very happy to listen that u buy this "TANK" but bro hw did u got the tree magzines as i have only 2 ??? any how wish you best of luck with this :) an what was the best price u buy this gun ???

Aiwa
20-09-2010, 02:18 AM
Brother Aiwa, just follow the steps given in its manual, complete knock down procedure is given in it. Take care of doing it in same sequence as its written (disassembly and reassembly both). Its not difficult doing so with the help of manual, you just have to be bit brave ;)
deno sir unfortunatly i didnt get the manual bcoz i buy it from my friend and he loss it even i didnt find it over internet as well

Faisji
20-09-2010, 02:36 AM
[
deno sir unfortunatly i didnt get the manual bcoz i buy it from my friend and he loss it even i didnt find it over internet as well


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxnsTsnZe3g

Check out this video from 7.00 onwards.it's in Russian but will give you a good idea. just the man disassemble it and put back together.

Denovo87
20-09-2010, 11:51 AM
Heartiest congrats Crazy Shooter bro and nice to learn the same TABOO we both share i.e. cant trust the gun spent even a night out with some one else :lol:

I noticed three magsm where did you get the third one? are available in the market, I want to have couple of these, any help in this regard would be appreciated.

Crazy Shooter
20-09-2010, 12:08 PM
Heartiest congrats Crazy Shooter bro and nice to learn the same TABOO we both share i.e. cant trust the gun spent even a night out with some one else :lol:

I noticed three magsm where did you get the third one? are available in the market, I want to have couple of these, any help in this regard would be appreciated.

Thank you Denovo brother :) Glad to know that we think alike about guns in other hands whenever someone takes my gun to see its like killing me how can I trust the gun which stays away from my eyes for sometime ? I just can't no Denovo brother 3rd mag didn't come along the handgun I kept one mag with me before giving the old viking to my cousin :lol: he asked me couple of times to give him mag but what I told him is that I lost it somewhere ;) but I know a dealer who has extra mags for viking will call him today but the asking price was too high 4 months ago 8k as far as I remember so I dropped the idea of getting a new one that time .

Mastermind
20-09-2010, 12:20 PM
Dear brothers I bought a new baikal viking 3 days ago posting some pics here though this is the first time I am using a digital camera but the quality of pics are not better thn the pics I have taken from my phone I dnt know why well all of you know about baikal viking its just that I want to share my new baby with you :) its the same model I had before forgot to tell you that my cousin had taken it away he was saying that he will return but I dnt know why I dnt like any gun which stays away from my eyes in others hands I just can't feel comfortable with that gun so I asked him to pay the price instead of gettiing a new one for him I got a new one for myself its the same 2009 model which I had before
http://s1.postimage.org/piHIS.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1fd61n8jo/)

http://s1.postimage.org/piMI9.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1fd9cpxj8/)

http://s1.postimage.org/piWGJ.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/1fdfyvbic/)

how much it cost you brother and from where did u brought it ?

Denovo87
20-09-2010, 12:27 PM
Thanks Crazy Shooter bro for detailed reply, yes; please check with that guy if he still has the ORIGINAL Viking mags and for how much would he be willing to let them go.

Crazy Shooter
20-09-2010, 12:31 PM
Mastermind brother with ammunition it cost me 56K , we have been discussing about the changes baikal is making in diff models of Viking this is the first time that I red the manual carefully and we got our answer there its written that baikal is constantly changing the design of pistol for better performance so its not a big deal if our viking looks a bit diff from each other nothing to worry about .

Crazy Shooter
20-09-2010, 12:33 PM
Thanks Crazy Shooter bro for detailed reply, yes; please check with that guy if he still has the ORIGINAL Viking mags and for how much would he be willing to let them go.

I just called him but he is not answering my phone must be busy or something he will get back to me as soon as he get free :) will let you know shortly Inshah Allah Denovo brother I was looking at diff laser sights but none of them fits my viking do you have a laser sight for your viking ? if yes tell me the make and price .

uzairahmed154
20-09-2010, 02:28 PM
http://s3.postimage.org/ED4_9.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2ahb2mnus/)

Denovo87
20-09-2010, 02:58 PM
Thanks brother Crazy Shooter, regarding laser sight or tactical light I am sorry but they never fancy me so never tried anything on Viking :)

Aiwa
20-09-2010, 03:30 PM
[
deno sir unfortunatly i didnt get the manual bcoz i buy it from my friend and he loss it even i didnt find it over internet as well


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxnsTsnZe3g

Check out this video from 7.00 onwards.it's in Russian but will give you a good idea. just the man disassemble it and put back together.
oho how could i explain lala i can open it ye kiya her kisam ki gun i wanna open it completely part by part :( any how all rite i got what 2 do thanx for reply

Mastermind
20-09-2010, 03:32 PM
Thanks broCrazy Shooter

Denovo87
20-09-2010, 03:56 PM
Aiwa bro, please try this link http://imzcorp.com/res_en/0_value_9403_192.pdf .

Down load and enjoy :)

mhrehman
20-09-2010, 04:06 PM
Thanks Crazy Shooter bro for detailed reply, yes; please check with that guy if he still has the ORIGINAL Viking mags and for how much would he be willing to let them go.

Den bro, I believe Naveed(Bond) bro will be able to help you in this regards. :)

Vik
20-09-2010, 04:16 PM
lovely pics. what's the green cirlce on the grip.

Crazy Shooter
21-09-2010, 01:57 AM
lovely pics. what's the green cirlce on the grip.

Brother I am not good in taking pics that green circle is not on handgun dont know how it appeared in pics here are some fresh pics.
http://s3.postimage.org/G_D4J.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2fatjgh1g/)

http://s3.postimage.org/G_I40.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2fawuj610/)

http://s3.postimage.org/G_Kz9.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2fayi2iis/)

http://s3.postimage.org/G_UxJ.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2fb547whw/)

http://s3.postimage.org/G_X1S.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2fb6rr8zo/)

http://s3.postimage.org/H03wi.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2fbbqdah0/)

http://s3.postimage.org/H060r.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2fbddwmys/)

AK47
21-09-2010, 11:50 AM
Nice pics CS bro, and plenty of stuff for a review! ;) Congrats again. :)

Aiwa
21-09-2010, 12:36 PM
Aiwa bro, please try this link http://imzcorp.com/res_en/0_value_9403_192.pdf .

Down load and enjoy :)
bo lala :D

Crazy Shooter
21-09-2010, 08:40 PM
Nice pics CS bro, and plenty of stuff for a review! ;) Congrats again. :)
Thank you AK47 brother :) yes plenty of stuff for cherry popping ;)

Mani
21-09-2010, 09:18 PM
Bro. Nice Pics.

Crazy Shooter
21-09-2010, 09:28 PM
Bro. Nice Pics.

Thank you brother :)

Aquarius
21-09-2010, 11:58 PM
Great gun and nice pictures Crazy Shooter bro.... :)

Aiwa
22-09-2010, 01:00 AM
dear Members can some one tell me where can i buy the laser site for my VIKING ??? :P
and if some one know deno or crazy shooter or doctor sahib plz also mention the price

Crazy Shooter
22-09-2010, 01:17 AM
dear Members can some one tell me where can i buy the laser site for my VIKING ??? :P
and if some one know deno or crazy shooter or doctor sahib plz also mention the price

You can get it from Asia Arms Peshawar or Fakhr E Alam if I am not forgetting the price they told me was 4k for a chinese good for MP 446 :) and if you visit Fakhr E Alam please asking him about magz of MP 446 for Denovo brother and me as well .

Denovo87
22-09-2010, 01:28 PM
dear Members can some one tell me where can i buy the laser site for my VIKING ??? :P
and if some one know deno or crazy shooter or doctor sahib plz also mention the price

Aiwa bro, Fakhr e Alam has Chinese laser + tactical light available for arround 5k, check with them and please take your gun with you to see if it fits OK before buying it.

Crazy Shooter
22-09-2010, 07:56 PM
Denovo bro a guy here have few magz of viking asking price is too high trying to bring him down will update soon Inshah Allah

Denovo87
22-09-2010, 08:42 PM
Thanks Crazy Shooter bro .

Crazy Shooter
23-09-2010, 12:26 AM
Thanks Crazy Shooter bro .
you are welcome bro :)