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ACHILLES
30-04-2010, 08:48 PM
Here is BERETTA clone by ATI turkey in 9mm.
http://s1.postimage.org/HkVOr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxHkVOr)

ARlover
30-04-2010, 11:24 PM
Pak made 92fs clone is better then turkish

ACHILLES
01-05-2010, 12:09 AM
NO BRO NOT AT all. Turkish clones are of much higher quality.

Shariq
01-05-2010, 12:32 AM
NO BRO NOT AT all. Turkish clones are of much higher quality.
++1

iffe
01-05-2010, 12:41 AM
it is deffinitly better then the local clone in finishing

dunno if any PG member has personal experience

AK47
01-05-2010, 12:55 AM
it is deffinitly better then the local clone in finishing

dunno if any PG member has personal experience My bro, it's definitely better in ANYTHING!

I feel ArLovers post above was basically an impulsive, unintended one! :)

Ilyas
01-05-2010, 12:58 AM
Haven't seen the one made by ATI, but another Turkish pistol on similar design and probably with
the best finishing among Turkish pistols I have seen, is Yavuz 16 Regard.


http://s3.postimage.org/gRMb0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqgRMb0)

hawkseye
01-05-2010, 11:44 AM
any comments on availability and price?

fahadkhalid
01-05-2010, 02:56 PM
Haven't seen the one made by ATI, but another Turkish pistol on similar design and probably with
the best finishing among Turkish pistols I have seen, is Yavuz 16 Regard.


http://s3.postimage.org/gRMb0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqgRMb0)

+1 Ilyas sb. Regard is a wonderful pistol, very accurate, very reliable.

fahadkhalid
01-05-2010, 03:10 PM
The whole yavuz family has "made in italy" embossed on their magzines

Aquarius
01-05-2010, 03:21 PM
Is ATI better than Yavus.? And is it available in the market.?

fahadkhalid
01-05-2010, 05:34 PM
ATI is selling yavuz now bro aquarius. look at this link

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/02/ati-at92-pistol-mkek-yavuz-16/

fahadkhalid
01-05-2010, 05:59 PM
any comments on availability and price?



All yavuz models are availble between 40K and 52k. atleast thts the price range here in karachi

Sparticas
01-05-2010, 08:10 PM
some copy past for info :-

Yavuz 16 pistol is a relatively recent development of Turkish Yavuz company. Its basic variant, Yavuz 16 Regard, is closely patterned after famous Italian Beretta 92FS pistol, although it is also available in several visually different versions. According to available information, Yavuz 16 pistol has passed official Turkish military trials and is in use with certain elements of Turkish armed forces and police.

Yavuz 16 pistol is short recoil operated, locked breech pistol that uses Walther P38-type vertically tilting locking piece to lock the barrel and slide. Models such as regard and Compact use Beretta-type open-top slide, while models such as Bora and Zirve used enclosed-top slide with small ejection window on the right. Internally these pistols are basically similar to each other. Trigger of Yavuz pistol is of double action type, with exposed hammer and ambidextrous, slide-mounted safety/decocker levers. Magazines are double stack, magazine release button is located at the base of triggerguard.

Salahuddin Ayubi
02-05-2010, 11:48 AM
Given the choice to choose between Yavuz 16 and Taurus PT 92/99, which one would you go for ?

Aquarius
02-05-2010, 12:15 PM
Given the choice to choose between Yavuz 16 and Taurus PT 92/99, which one would you go for ?

Ofcourse PT92/99 because its made on the very same machinery as Beretta 92fs, and also because of its long track record of its reliability which is neck to neck with the Beretta... :)

Sparticas
02-05-2010, 12:40 PM
+1 Aquarius

At least we have alot of pak guns members who av Pt 92/99, and who knows how Yavuz is .........................

AK47
02-05-2010, 05:32 PM
Taurus PT 92/99/1911 speak for themselves! Regardless of Yavuz quality, and it's indeed fine and Nato qualified, yet I'd still incline towards the Taurus, on background of track record. :)

ACHILLES
02-05-2010, 05:34 PM
@ AK 47
Yuvaz will take time to prove it self.

AK47
02-05-2010, 05:42 PM
Sure, Achilles bro, Yavuz16 got some time ahead for market stabilization, but on the other hand, it's quite surprising how fast Turkish weapons have flooded the world markets! Very progressive indeed.

ACHILLES
02-05-2010, 05:50 PM
@ak47
Have you seen the GIRSON they are very nice guns. Beretta 92fs and compact clones.

AK47
02-05-2010, 05:56 PM
Yes, Achilles bro, not live but on pics, it's mainly a Karachi market item, strange it's not circulated over here, but despite of all quality assurances, I'd still have reservations with something new!

Basically I believe, at least as far as hammer fired guns are concerned, Taurus, with and despite of criticism, just remains ONE POPULAR/ESTABLISHED BRAND here in Pakistan. I feel, it's a fine compromise of price/quality, and remain a first line choice for most people, at least for the start, before we proceed on to collector items. :)

ACHILLES
02-05-2010, 08:03 PM
@ak47
GIRSON are availabe over here also. But what you said is true.

Salahuddin Ayubi
02-05-2010, 08:46 PM
Basically I believe, at least as far as hammer fired guns are concerned, Taurus, with and despite of criticism, just remains ONE POPULAR/ESTABLISHED BRAND here in Pakistan. I feel, it's a fine compromise of price/quality, and remain a first line choice for most people, at least for the start, before we proceed on to collector items. :)

Very true AK.

Zubair
04-05-2010, 12:33 AM
Given the choice to choose between Yavuz 16 and Taurus PT 92/99, which one would you go for ?

Yavuz 16. Better build & far better trigger.

fahadkhalid
04-05-2010, 01:24 AM
Given the choice to choose between Yavuz 16 and Taurus PT 92/99, which one would you go for ?

I already have the MC21. As i have already stated its a very reliable weapon. over 700 rounds fired without any hiccup. The best part is they are not ammo sensitive.

ACHILLES
04-05-2010, 07:28 PM
Triggers of Girson is good.

fahadkhalid
04-05-2010, 08:47 PM
Triggers of Girson is good.

+1. very good for rapid firing.

ARehman
05-05-2010, 03:37 PM
v cant make a bulb so how could u say that this gun is not good

Salahuddin Ayubi
05-05-2010, 03:42 PM
v cant make a bulb so how could u say that this gun is not good

Who said this gun is not good.

This is your first post. Take some time to familiarize yourself with our forum and the atmosphere here. Properly introduce yourself in our Members' Introduction section and 'then' take your dive in ongoing discussion.

Denovo87
05-05-2010, 03:54 PM
v cant make a bulb so how could u say that this gun is not good

And I thought we were making Energy Savers in Pakistan :) welcome aboard ARehman bro .

Salahuddin Ayubi
05-05-2010, 04:01 PM
:lol:

Faisji
05-05-2010, 05:05 PM
Their safeety tests for the guns



Our pistols are tested according to the Turkish Ministry of National Defence’s technical specification of No. 02-38B, which covers the NATO standarts.


HIGH-PRESSURE SHOOTING TEST

A total of 15 high pressure 9mm x 19 Parabellum cartridges with an average pressure of 2800-3700 kg/cm² are shot continuously.
The aim is to control whether or not there would be any damage on the pistol and on its parts during the shooting.
RESULT: FREE of Error


SPEED TEST

In this test, 10 cartridges are shot with the pistol.The speed of the cartridge bullet from the barrel at 10 meters off is measured.
The Standard of this speed should be 335 m/sec.
RESULT: The speed of the Yavuz 16 pistols is aproximetely 363 m/sec.


DISPERSAL SHOOTING TEST

Shooting is made at 25 m distance to the target with 10 cartridges, 9mm x 19 Parabellum and average chamber pressure is 2600 kg/cm². The Standard of this test: All of the 10 shootings should be in a circle of maximum 8 cm radius.
RESULT: All of the 10 shootings are gathered in a circle of 6 cm radius.


HOT WEATHER TEST

With fully loaded magazine and a bullet in the chamber, the pistol is set in safety position and waits for 24 hours in an atmosphere of + 55ºC degrees together with a full spare magazine . Later, 16 series of shootings are made when the barrel is at 0 (±3) degrees.
RESULT: FREE of Error


COLD WEATHER TEST

With fully loaded magazine and a bullet in the chamber, the pistol is set in safety position and waits for 24 hours in an atmosphere of -33º C degrees together with a full spare magazine. Later, 16 series of shootings are made when the barrel is at 0 (±3) degrees.
RESULT: FREE of Error


ENDURANCE TEST

Continues 5000 shots are done. The pistol is cleaned each time after firing 600 cartridges and cools down after each 60 shots.
RESULT: FREE of Error


DYE ENDURANCE TEST (SALT TEST)

The pistol waits for 24 hours at 20 (±3) degrees in salty water (50 gr salt NaCl in one liter water) with 5% concentration in a convenient container together with its magazine .(Magazine is not in the pistol).The dye and the coating of the pistol and the magazine are examined and there should be no blister, erosion or change in color or hue.
RESULT : FREE of Error


TRIGGER POWER TEST (AFTER ENDURANCE TEST)

After endurance tests the trigger power is; it must be between:
Single action: 1200-3200 gram
Double action: 2000-5500 gram
RESULT: Single action: 2000-2500 gram, Double action: 4500-5000 gram.


DROP SAFETY TEST

The magazine is fully loaded and 2 cartridges taken out. These two cartridges are replaced with two empty shells (with loaded primer) . After replacing the emptly shell the magazine is inserted in the pistol and the safety position should be ’’off’’.
The hammer is set up and the pistol dropped on hammer, barrel and lower back corner of grip.
The hammer is not set up and the pistol dropped on hammer, barrel and lower back corner of grip
The pistol is dropped 6 times on each position on a 2 cm thick steel which is placed on concrete from 1 meter height. After drops there should be no firing, no damage on the primer and there should be no damage on pistol itself and the pistol should be in ready to fire.
RESULT: FREE of Error

KageFox
05-05-2010, 06:22 PM
The safety tests seem valid, but inadequate. As a budding mathematician/statistician, I can tell you that the number of bullets fired in each case (excluding the Endurance test) is far too low to properly gauge the performance of the pistols. For example, damage on parts will not usually appear if only 15 shots are fired. Similarly, the number of pistols tested is also missing... which if low compared to the total manufactured number... will not give an accurate rating.

As for the "speed of the pistol" :), it is dependent on both the bullet used and the gun in question. Different loads will give different results.

The Turks have a knack of producing reliable weapons... but my point is that it is not wise to rely solely upon the meager tests conducted by the manufacturer.

Sparticas
06-05-2010, 11:16 AM
The safety tests seem valid, but inadequate. As a budding mathematician/statistician, I can tell you that the number of bullets fired in each case (excluding the Endurance test) is far too low to properly gauge the performance of the pistols. For example, damage on parts will not usually appear if only 15 shots are fired. Similarly, the number of pistols tested is also missing... which if low compared to the total manufactured number... will not give an accurate rating.
.


Good kage, had the same observation.

AK47
06-05-2010, 11:24 AM
The safety tests seem valid, but inadequate. As a budding mathematician/statistician, I can tell you that the number of bullets fired in each case (excluding the Endurance test) is far too low to properly gauge the performance of the pistols. For example, damage on parts will not usually appear if only 15 shots are fired. Similarly, the number of pistols tested is also missing... which if low compared to the total manufactured number... will not give an accurate rating.

As for the "speed of the pistol" :), it is dependent on both the bullet used and the gun in question. Different loads will give different results.

The Turks have a knack of producing reliable weapons... but my point is that it is not wise to rely solely upon the meager tests conducted by the manufacturer.

+1 KF! Heck if you watch Youtube's vid of test-firing the piece- of -crap thingie "Ghost" in this manner, one get's startled by what they claim to produce and what lands in our hands!

Still, I'd say, Sarsilmaz and Stoeger both have "proved" models of guns in their lines. :)

ACHILLES
07-05-2010, 01:35 PM
http://s3.postimage.org/BZ2cS.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqBZ2cS)

Aquarius
07-05-2010, 01:56 PM
Heck if you watch Youtube's vid of test-firing the piece- of -crap thingie "Ghost" in this manner, one get's startled by what they claim to produce and what lands in our hands!

Still, I'd say, Sarsilmaz and Stoeger both have "proved" models of guns in their lines. :)

+1 AK47 brother......... :)

ACHILLES
07-05-2010, 04:54 PM
http://s4.postimage.org/qf_Ar.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVqf_Ar)

ACHILLES
07-05-2010, 04:58 PM
http://s3.postimage.org/Cm4gA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqCm4gA)

http://s3.postimage.org/Cm6LJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqCm6LJ)

Aquarius
07-05-2010, 05:01 PM
Very nice pictures of Girsan ACHILLES brother.. thanks for sharing..... :)

ACHILLES
07-05-2010, 05:08 PM
http://s4.postimage.org/qhZiA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVqhZiA)

http://s4.postimage.org/qi0NJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVqi0NJ)

http://s4.postimage.org/qiifJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVqiifJ)

http://s4.postimage.org/qisei.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVqisei)

AK47
07-05-2010, 11:44 PM
@ACHILLES.............Heck, you make us "ecstatic" with this porn! Would like to know the price/availability of this last one above! :)

Let me join you in your "photo session", with the gun I'd like to be my next "Turk", if ever:

http://s3.postimage.org/DEw6r.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqDEw6r)
http://s3.postimage.org/DENzr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqDENzr)

Price demanded some months back was fair 52K! :)

fahadkhalid
08-05-2010, 03:24 PM
@ACHILLES.............Heck, you make us "ecstatic" with this porn! Would like to know the price/availability of this last one above! :)

Let me join you in your "photo session", with the gun I'd like to be my next "Turk", if ever:

http://s3.postimage.org/DEw6r.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqDEw6r)
http://s3.postimage.org/DENzr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqDENzr)

Price demanded some months back was fair 52K! :)


the one in golden brother AAK47 was avaible with pioneer arms, 3 months back, when i bought my mc21, he was asking 60k for it then. but on a recent visit i saw the same gun with a couple of more dealers, i guess now the price would have come down.

Faisji
08-05-2010, 04:42 PM
@KageFox
@Sparticas
@AK47

The tests i described are not manufacturer's own test but are in accordance to Turkish Ministry of National Defence’s technical specification of No. 02-38B, which covers the NATO standarts.

All army's set different standards for testing.The US army testing program (Joint services small arms planning commision JSSAPC) set a minimum standard of 495 shots for mean rounds before operational failure (MRBF) whiich Berretta reapeated surpassed at 35000 rounds.So for us army that was acceptable but when M9 (FS92) arrived in the hands of spec-ops community it was rejected for having weak slides and low MRBF insraed they choose sig sauer pistols which had a MRBF around 150000 rounds.

AK47
09-05-2010, 12:35 PM
@Faisji............Thanks bro for continued valuable info on testing/approving standards. Nice share. :)

@fahadkhalid..........At 60K the golden model above with wooden grips is still a fair price, I'd say, the only question is about the "durability" of the golden "stuff", with regards to hand sweat, humidity, extreme weather conditions, etc. Any guarantee offered? :rolleyes:

If no guarantee, I believe it's to be treated as a "glass-box" item, sadly! Yet, for the collector, still a nice item for the drawing room glass-box! ;) :)

fahadkhalid
12-05-2010, 01:37 PM
@AK47, sirjee there were no gaurantees from the seller, but i dont know if there were any with a gun, i dint have the box opened nor examined this one upclose, it was there on a banner. and the way the banners are up in almost every shop, i am sure they have a dealer here in Pakistan.

Asif Jhammat
19-12-2011, 09:27 PM
nice information sir