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Turumti
29-04-2010, 03:38 AM
The 7.62x54R, which is basically a rimmed 30 cal rifle cartridge has become quite popular in the NWFP, tribal areas and northwest Balochistan, amongst both hunters and tribesmen. These days there quite a few bolt action rifles based on this calibre floating around Peshawar and Quetta. These rifles are usually made by machioning and fitting a 30 cal Russian/Soviet bloc LMG barrel into a bolt action, and the stocks are usually crafted from local woods.

Can some of the more experienced members please shed some light on this relatively new entrant into the local rifle scene? Thanks.

Dr Hanif Malik
29-04-2010, 06:27 AM
@turumti,brother any price info and durability of local made:)

Sialvi
29-04-2010, 11:04 AM
this 7.62x54 cal. originated from russia and was used in mosin nagant assault rifles as well as light machine guns. dragonov sniper rifle is another example. u can find some old russian bolt action rifles chambered for such round in ur local market. its very potent round but is only found in FMJ here hence not very suitable for hunting purpose.

Turumti
29-04-2010, 04:43 PM
The locally made rifles range in price from about 15000 rupees to 60,000 rupees, despending on the quality of the materials used and the workmanship. The higher end ones are usually custom made iwth lots of engraving and gold and silver inlaid work in them.

I havent ever shot one of these things so I cant vouch either way for their accuracy and reliability, but some of my friends from Balochistan, who have shot this rifle and hunted with it are full of praise for it.

One chap who is quite experienced in this calibre told me you need to find the right ammo (sniper grade) to shoot accurately with this gun. He said to stay away from the older Berdan primed ammo, which leaves corrosive residue in the barrel and causes rust and pitting.

wasifali89
29-04-2010, 10:42 PM
i had heard ov these in peshawer and never paid attention

lol

ARlover
30-04-2010, 09:05 PM
where can I find this hot gun and info of price

Kamran_uk75
01-05-2010, 12:56 AM
Can anybody post some pics of the particular weapon?

Samir
03-05-2010, 03:37 PM
http://s3.postimage.org/o_xg9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pqo_xg9)
IMAGE OF MOSIN NAGANT PLEASE TELL ME ABOUT THE AVAILIBILTY OF THIS RIFLE. AND ALSO IF SOMEONE WANNA SELL THIS GUN PLEASE CONTACT ME

Basharat
04-05-2010, 12:58 PM
Has anyone used the 7.62x54r? and is it a problem to license them?

Turumti
04-05-2010, 03:33 PM
Licence is no issue, its not a prohibited bore.

Skeeter60
07-05-2010, 09:54 AM
7.62 x 54 R
This cartridge was adopted by the Russian army in 1891 in the Mosin Nagant Rifles. It was also the cartridge fired by their wheeled heavy machine guns, ( although the caliber does not befit the name heavy ) the machine guns with their finned barrels heavy mounts and carriage made these very heavy and cumbersome to carry despite the wheels.
These were used by Pak army before and after the 71 war, and our tanks of Chinese origin had these as bow and co axial guns. the round is at par with the .308 win in performance, but the bullet has a steel core and unsafe to use as it ricochets like any thing. The bullet dia is 310 to 311 like the old .303.
After the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was thrown back there were train loads of this ammo and no one knew what to do with it, the rds were selling for Rs 0.25 a round in the 1980s.
I bought a barrel for Rs 1000/ of this machine gun, these were chrome lined; and had it turned down and cut to 24 inches length and had the gas port welded and the barrel was then put into an old US P 14 rifle action, which was also customised; all work done at Darra Adam Khel . Then the beautiful walnut stocks were also made by the great Mistri Yaqeen Shah, and mistri Aseel khan of Darra Adam Khel.
Once some one one remarked ' this rifle seems to be custom made ! and I said yes by 'Yauqin Shaw' and he said in Austria? I said no at Adam.
Any way we converted a lot of old P14s and P17s by fixing the MG barrells and then giving some to my friends like Sardar Naseer and Mushtaq at Quetta and then every one followed to use the cheap and abundant ammo which even now sells for around Rs 15 or so a round.
Incidently the P14 and P17 actions are very strong and the US A square company is making large caliber African hunting rifles on these since long.
These rifles were abundant then in cal 30-06 and .303 and the beat up old ones could be bought then for 4 to 6000 Rs
Bolt Action P14/17 US made
Barrel Russian Machine gun
Stock Pakistani walnut of great beauty
Workmanship Darra Adam Khel

Moeen
07-05-2010, 10:09 AM
@Skeeter60 - +1

HafizAhmed
07-05-2010, 11:45 PM
trains loads of ammo =) . wow dude , really hope the americans pull out soon , whos know , all the AKs might be replaced by M4s and M16s and we ll have truck loads of 5.56 rds flowing over the border , GO AMERICA GO ,

Aquarius
07-05-2010, 11:55 PM
Excellent input and information Skeeter Sir.. thanks for sharing your experience.... :)

PUNJTANI5
24-06-2010, 12:54 PM
isnt it the same as .303 british bullet

wasi
20-12-2010, 10:39 AM
i saw one mosin nagat in darra adam khel. @skeeter the idea is very fine and i would like to modify one for myself if u can give me any contacts of the gentelmen u mentioned earlier at mw_akhter@hotmail.com.

drag80
20-12-2010, 11:04 PM
Licence is no issue, its not a prohibited bore.

its not a prohibited bore ? what city are u talking about ? only .22 caliber rifle round is NPB according to my knowledge.

kstabish
20-12-2010, 11:16 PM
its prohibited bore i think

Denovo87
21-12-2010, 04:47 AM
its not a prohibited bore ? what city are u talking about ? only .22 caliber rifle round is NPB according to my knowledge.

7.62 x 54, 7.62 x 51 & all other calibres in bolt action rifle are NPB in Sindh (and I think in other provinces as well than Punjab), its only us living in Punjab are enjoying one n only .22 rifles as NPB :ohwell:
You even can buy a bolt action rifle on your MOI NPB from Sindh, get it registered from any of the Sindh's District and bring it to Punjab BUT you cant buy and get it registered in Punjab.. amazing isn't it ;)

drag80
21-12-2010, 02:35 PM
Denovo Sir I wish these calibers were allowed in Punjab too.

The reason for not allowing in punjab, as far as i can think is, that capital territory is in punjab and these long range rifles if fallen in wrong hands can be used as snipers for assasinations from long distances which makes them dangerous from security point of view.

Denovo87
21-12-2010, 09:17 PM
Denovo Sir I wish these calibers were allowed in Punjab too.

The reason for not allowing in punjab, as far as i can think is, that capital territory is in punjab and these long range rifles if fallen in wrong hands can be used as snipers for assasinations from long distances which makes them dangerous from security point of view.

Nice guess Drag bro ;) but a BA rifle on MOI can be taken to anywhere in Pakistan legally, including capital territory. And capital territory is not in Punjab but adjacent to Punjab & KPK ;)

drag80
22-12-2010, 12:10 AM
o yes thanks for correcting

kstabish
22-12-2010, 12:45 AM
haha....i dont think wrong hands need leagal weapons at all

BaderJanjua
22-12-2010, 05:01 PM
Nice update sir Skeeter60

thegame787
22-12-2010, 05:40 PM
i wonder why would a wrong hand wait for moi/prov npb lic and then further take time searching the white market for gun ..then registrations and so on

Mohsin Yaseen
06-01-2011, 02:28 PM
7.62 is NPB ?? can sum one confirm ... coz if its NPB then u can get a dragunov :)

danishtariq
02-02-2011, 04:31 PM
The locally made rifles range in price from about 15000 rupees to 60,000 rupees, despending on the quality of the materials used and the workmanship. The higher end ones are usually custom made iwth lots of engraving and gold and silver inlaid work in them.

I havent ever shot one of these things so I cant vouch either way for their accuracy and reliability, but some of my friends from Balochistan, who have shot this rifle and hunted with it are full of praise for it.

One chap who is quite experienced in this calibre told me you need to find the right ammo (sniper grade) to shoot accurately with this gun. He said to stay away from the older Berdan primed ammo, which leaves corrosive residue in the barrel and causes rust and pitting.


bro are you sure that such rifle is for 15000 rs ?

hounddawg
25-02-2011, 11:29 PM
One chap who is quite experienced in this calibre told me you need to find the right ammo (sniper grade) to shoot accurately with this gun. He said to stay away from the older Berdan primed ammo, which leaves corrosive residue in the barrel and causes rust and pitting.

I own 2 Mosin Nagants, a M44 and a 91/30 and I shoot the corrosive Czech Silvertips and Bulgarian Yellowtips all the time. The trick is in how you clean the rifle. The cause is the old primers used different chemicals, and when fired, they cause corrosive salts to be deposited in the chamber and barrel. Modern cleaning solvents are oil-based, so they do not dissolve these salts (they are water-soluble). First strip down the bolt and clean thoroughly with window-cleaner. Use only a window-cleaner that does NOT contain ammonia! Clean the chamber and barrel with the window-cleaner. This dissolves and removes the salts. Dry off the bolt parts, chamber and barrel with clean, dry cleaning patches. Now start the cleaning process all over using your favourite cleaning solvent (I use Hoppes no. 9 and Boretech Eliminator). It is critical that the weapon be cleaned thoroughly as soon as possible after shooting. The next day is too late. Following this process will allow you to shoot cheap surplus ammo without damaging a rifle's accuracy. One last point: When in doubt, clean as if it's corrosive ammo. Many other WWII surplus calibers have corrosive surplus ammo still out there, like the Turkish 8mm Mauser (7.92) and .303 British ammo from the 1950s, to name a couple.

Hope this info helps. Stay safe, and keep them in the X-ring!

Enigmatic Desires
26-02-2011, 04:56 AM
Is there any way one can visualy conform if his weapon has been subjected to corrosive ammo HD?

I plan on getting a used .303 and really dont know if I should since it may or may not have retained its accuracy

hounddawg
26-02-2011, 07:00 AM
Is there any way one can visualy conform if his weapon has been subjected to corrosive ammo HD?

I plan on getting a used .303 and really dont know if I should since it may or may not have retained its accuracy

Firstly, the barrel needs to be clean of as possible. Dark brown patches could mean rust, but it could also be cosmoline (a type of grease for long term storage. The best way to tell is to smell.) I use Bore Tech Eliminator to clean out the copper and carbon that gets trapped between the layers of copper inside the barrel. Here is a review on the product: http://www.700rifle.com/bore_tech.php . With the barrel clean you want to look down the bore for indicators of uneven/excessive wear. Use good light and move the light slightly so you don't get fooled by shadows.
Pitting: These are tiny little holes or craters in the bore. They look like little speckles.
Frosting: Just like it says, it looks like frost. Easier to see in the grooves.
Erosion: Look at the lands in the barrel. They need to be well defined, sharp edges, crisp. With wear the edges become rounder. In the first few inches of the barrel, look for what looks like tiny scales. Like when mud dries and cracks. This is called throat erosion, and indicates that the rifle is ready for a new barrel.
Overall: Look for dark spots and rough patches.

While a certain amount of wear is inevitable in a 60-70 year old rifle, most of them were carried more than shot when they were military weapons. The period after they were demilitarised is where they were most likely to be exposed to excessive wear and improper storage. The age of a rifle does not neccesarily indicate heavy use. I have a Swiss Schmidt Rubin rifle that was made in 1896, and the bore is excellent. I would guess that it has had less than 500 rounds through it in over 100 years.

If I can help my brothers in arms with info, just ask. If I don't know, I'll tell you.

I still feel the pain from buying a worn-out rifle when I was young and knew everything.