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Sparticas
17-04-2010, 09:58 AM
Dear members i got a few old sort of guns in gift, and i don't have any idea about it, please help me................. regarding their caliber and type and any other details.....

Gun number 1

http://s2.postimage.org/IeuLi.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsIeuLi)

http://s4.postimage.org/i7gYS.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVi7gYS)

Gun number 2


http://s4.postimage.org/i5WeJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVi5WeJ)

Jillanik
17-04-2010, 11:34 AM
Seems to be lever action Remington.

Sparticas
17-04-2010, 11:53 AM
http://s4.postimage.org/ifgPJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVifgPJ)

Sparticas
17-04-2010, 12:24 PM
http://s2.postimage.org/ItdEr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsItdEr)

my be this helps............

Sparticas
17-04-2010, 07:14 PM
May be its to old to talk about.......

Dr Hanif Malik
17-04-2010, 09:10 PM
it is very old looking rifle,may be antique keep it safe :)

Asadullah Khan
18-04-2010, 05:28 PM
Can you please share marking on the gun or anything written on it. please could you please post pictures of barrel from the front & breach & locking mech.

Arslan_tareen
18-04-2010, 06:22 PM
could be a old lahore , or mumbai made special rifles , thou its Remington style lever action suggests that it could be old shaheen Arms , all above if there are no markings on the gun .

wasifali89
18-04-2010, 09:13 PM
there are marking and made written on the gun in the last pic u posted

kindly write it down

Sparticas
19-04-2010, 12:22 PM
The marking on the gun is ( RAICK FRERES LIEGE BELGIUM )

and on the other side its written MADE IN BELGIUM.

Salahuddin Ayubi
19-04-2010, 12:29 PM
Ruck Freres means Ruck Brothers (supposedly manufacturer's name)

While Liege is a district in Belgium.

Aquarius
20-04-2010, 12:19 AM
Ruck Freres means Ruck Brothers (supposedly manufacturer's name)

While Liege is a district in Belgium.

+1 SA Sir..very nice information indeed....... :)

Sparticas
20-04-2010, 08:26 AM
Ruck Freres means Ruck Brothers (supposedly manufacturer's name)

While Liege is a district in Belgium.

so its confirmed now that it is from somewhere in Belgium, but what is it .......

A BIG ? MARK ...

Denovo87
20-04-2010, 10:50 AM
Spartica bro, pls post high resolution photos of the gun showing trigger assembly, chamber, barrel, action etc. clearly, this will help to detrmin what exactly you got.

Sparticas
20-04-2010, 02:11 PM
@ Denovo87

sir i am planning to have a good digital camera then will be a able to send good resolution pictures.

Sparticas
20-04-2010, 02:16 PM
http://s1.postimage.org/6xHJS.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx6xHJS)

i think i av the same pictures in high resolution as well .....

KageFox
21-04-2010, 01:09 AM
Might be a Belgian Rook Rifle. Found a few pics which partially match. High res close-ups, a few shots of the action and a little description of proof-marks and other markings might help.

If you can, try and trace back the gun through its owners... might give you some clue...

Shariq
27-04-2010, 01:07 AM
Sorry Off topic But!!!!
Sparticas Bro can i have your email Add. Mine is sqnldr_shariq@yahoo.com

Sparticas
27-04-2010, 12:59 PM
@ Sqnldr_shariq

sir i av emailed you the address.

Topak
27-04-2010, 05:19 PM
Sparticas brother/uncle welcome to pakguns
between i dont know any thing about your gun,but what i know is that we are from same city,can we any chance to see each others and your gun,
sorry its out of topic,but you can mail me at majedadvocate@yahoo.com.
once i also got a antique gun from friends but my brothers put it in the furnace and melted it. :rolleyes:

Sparticas
28-04-2010, 08:25 AM
@ TOPAC

yeah i have heard there are alot of furnaces in Gujranwala, sorry for your gun :)

Sparticas
09-06-2010, 12:21 PM
Finally i got ma self a good resolution camera but i think photography is a very difficult job.. i have tried to take few good resolution pics may be it helps..


http://s3.postimage.org/v18Y0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pqv18Y0)
http://s4.postimage.org/hZ7RA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVhZ7RA)

Few more pics


http://s3.postimage.org/v2aOJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pqv2aOJ)

Sparticas
09-06-2010, 12:29 PM
http://s1.postimage.org/5SCkJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx5SCkJ)

http://s2.postimage.org/ROd1J.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsROd1J)

http://s2.postimage.org/ROn0i.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsROn0i)

http://s2.postimage.org/ROzu0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsROzu0)

Sparticas
09-06-2010, 12:39 PM
If you can, try and trace back the gun through its owners... might give you some clue...

Dear Kagefox its my Great Grand father's gun and to trace back it now from him is very difficult as he is not with us now..

but i found the box of its cartridges and marking on those rounds are .410 ELEY- Kynoch. and it really helped as now its for sure that it is .410 short gun....


http://s1.postimage.org/5TJaJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx5TJaJ)

29.5 inches of barrel length.
http://s1.postimage.org/5TVEr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx5TVEr)

http://s1.postimage.org/5T_DJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx5T_DJ)

Denovo87
09-06-2010, 12:40 PM
if the cartrige shown in one of the pics is for this rifle than caliber surely is .410 single shot, I can see there are some markings & writing on the barrel, can you please take close-ups of that and post?

And you are underestimating your photography skills Sparticas bro :)

Sparticas
09-06-2010, 12:46 PM
The marking on the gun is ( RUCK FREPES LIEGE BELGIUM )

and on the other side its written MADE IN BELGIUM.

Thank you Den sir for appreciating my photo skills but i am sure you want me not to get disappointed, and sir i ve already mentioned the marking on this gun.

Sparticas
09-06-2010, 12:55 PM
the mystery with .410 is solved a bit but i ve something more which is still very much confussing for me as i don't know any thing about it and i didn't even found the box of its rounds so Help

so Pics of gun @ 2


http://s1.postimage.org/5Vbt0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx5Vbt0)

http://s1.postimage.org/5VnWJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx5VnWJ)

Sparticas
09-06-2010, 01:32 PM
Few More Close ups of Gun number 2


http://s3.postimage.org/va0H0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pqva0H0)

http://s3.postimage.org/va8ar.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pqva8ar)

Sparticas
09-06-2010, 01:38 PM
http://s2.postimage.org/RTLeJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsRTLeJ)

http://s2.postimage.org/RU6H0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsRU6H0)

KageFox
09-06-2010, 01:38 PM
Gun Number 2: A Henry-Martini based action. Was in use for some time by the Gurkhas of Nepal. The Martini could be upsized or downsized as regards to caliber... a pretty versatile action of its time.

Look for any specific markings, and meanwhile, search up "Martini" or "Henry-Martini"

Raja_Shakeel
09-06-2010, 01:46 PM
http://s2.postimage.org/RTLeJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsRTLeJ)

http://s2.postimage.org/RU6H0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsRU6H0)

its a shotgun i believe.

Sparticas
10-06-2010, 10:33 AM
its a shotgun i believe.


i dont know brother, but i am sure its not shot gun..

Faisji
10-06-2010, 11:55 AM
This looks like "Darra copy" of Martini-Henry rifle.

Sparticas
10-06-2010, 02:46 PM
May be it is the Khyber Pass copy of Martini-henry rifle.. but the stories associated with this beauty are astonishing ......

KageFox
10-06-2010, 03:24 PM
Could you post a close-up of the rear sight so that I can see its markings? Maybe, I will be able to tell if it has Nepalese origins... I recently read a couple of magazine articles in which Nepalese Henry-Martinis were highlighted...

Engineeer
10-06-2010, 03:35 PM
gun one is 16 bore shot gun and gun 2 is w greener .410 rifle English or Springfield USA long range big game hunting rifle. as they look in expert pic hahahhahhaah.
some one caught an animal and were wondering what is the name of this animal. some expert was approached he said throw grass in front of that animal if it starts eating its elephant or else its rat. we are doing that at least me i did act on that formula. but best is to show it to dealer and all kil kil will finish. if u wana sell these we can talk.

Sparticas
13-06-2010, 05:44 PM
gun one is 16 bore shot gun and gun 2 is w greener .410 rifle English or Springfield USA long range big game hunting rifle. as they look in expert pic hahahhahhaah.
some one caught an animal and were wondering what is the name of this animal. some expert was approached he said throw grass in front of that animal if it starts eating its elephant or else its rat. we are doing that at least me i did act on that formula. but best is to show it to dealer and all kil kil will finish. if u wana sell these we can talk.


Dear engineeer sahib with 3 e's :) nice joke. but sir the ist one is some belgium .410 and the second one seems to be a Martini henry Mk iv.

i av mailed you on your hotmail.

Sparticas
16-06-2010, 09:30 PM
I Joined this forum just a few months back and by that time i was totaly new to the guns, although i own a few but now i feel more confident when it comes to the guns. Now i know that if i face any problem regarding guns i have some place to go where there are a lot of very well mannered and learned people from whom i can get guidence and advices and for that i am very proud of this forum and its worthy ADMN, MODS and MEMBERS....

With the help of few members of this forum, now i exactly know about my ist Gun.... I got this link about the gun number 1..
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20q%20r/a%20raick%20gb.htm

Sparticas
16-06-2010, 09:32 PM
Could you post a close-up of the rear sight so that I can see its markings? Maybe, I will be able to tell if it has Nepalese origins... I recently read a couple of magazine articles in which Nepalese Henry-Martinis were highlighted...


i will do it bro......

Sparticas
22-06-2010, 11:35 AM
Could you post a close-up of the rear sight so that I can see its markings? Maybe, I will be able to tell if it has Nepalese origins... I recently read a couple of magazine articles in which Nepalese Henry-Martinis were highlighted...


as our dear Kage fox asked i am posting few images of the rear sight. may kagefox tell me something about it..


http://s4.postimage.org/BIAi.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVBIAi)

http://s4.postimage.org/CqtS.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVCqtS)

http://s4.postimage.org/CFrJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVCFrJ)

i think the rear sight has been repaired or changed ...... Allah knows, now its up to you kagefox bro....

Sparticas
22-06-2010, 12:30 PM
on the weekend i showed the said gun to one of our dear fellow PG member Topak and he told me that by the make it doesn't seems to be a dara made gun ....

for the refrence posting some more pics


http://s4.postimage.org/I_xA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVI_xA)

http://s4.postimage.org/Jc0i.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVJc0i)

http://s4.postimage.org/JjuJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVJjuJ)

Sparticas
22-06-2010, 12:46 PM
For some markings on the Gun .... especially for Kagefox Dear.







http://s2.postimage.org/EHKKS.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsEHKKS)

http://s2.postimage.org/EI6c9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsEI6c9)

http://s2.postimage.org/EICD0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsEICD0)

KageFox
22-06-2010, 03:03 PM
Okay, lets get down to business...

As soon as you posted the pictures, I consulted my 2006 edition of Guns&Ammo - SURPLUS Firearms, article "Martini Treasure Trove by Garry James".

I noticed that the guns in the pictures accompanying the article had several key differences compared to your gun, the most obvious being the absence of a full-length stock and bayonet lug on your gun.

As far as the rear sight of your gun goes, it is pretty different from the rear sights in the magazines. I also checked here and there on the web, but could not find a Martini with sights with shape that resemble the rear sights of your gun. That completely shoots down my idea of utilizing the rear sight markings to identify the gun. Though the markings on your gun's rear sight seem unique to me.

The receiver on your gun and its lever have me convinced that your gun is a Henry-Martini design; if anyone thinks otherwise, please share your thoughts.

That said, we are no further along the way to identifying your gun. I think that your gun may have started off an original... but somewhere along the way, it was modified or something.

I apologize for not being of much help regarding the identification of your gun. If I come across some info, I'll be sure to let you know.

Sparticas
23-06-2010, 11:24 AM
Dear kagefox thank you very for your valuable input.... i think you are the right person a true gun lover to ask about any gun.

other wise i am planning to dispose this gun off as still don't know what it is ....

KageFox
23-06-2010, 11:29 AM
As I may have stated before, the Henry-Martini was a pretty strong action... one that could chamber quite a number of calibers in its time. Do you have any bullets that came with the gun?

noumanzaidi
23-06-2010, 12:28 PM
looking quite antique :)

Amjad Ali
23-06-2010, 12:59 PM
dear sparticas you rote {Finally i got ma self a good resolution camera but i think photography is a very difficult job.. i have tried to take few good resolution pics may be it helps..} i agree with u that photography is a very difficult job, but it`s very easy for NAVEED_PK contact him to solve ur problem of photography & the guns r looking realy nice it`s may b use for hunting
by THE ENGLISH people good variety to share with us . thanks

Sparticas
24-06-2010, 09:43 AM
Do you have any bullets that came with the gun?

negetive dear i don't have any rounds with this specific gun, as it is amongst the oldest lot i got....;

@ Amjad Ali sahib you are very right about the photography thing and i am thinking on the same lines as you suggested with the fingers crossed :) .

@ noumanzaidi dear it is an antique i know thats why still not configured. :/

KageFox
28-06-2010, 02:12 AM
Just as an afterthought... does any part (or anything for that matter) indicate that it has been "operated upon" by a local gunsmith? Perhaps someone from Darra?

Topak
28-06-2010, 01:09 PM
Just as an afterthought... does any part (or anything for that matter) indicate that it has been "operated upon" by a local gunsmith? Perhaps someone from Darra?
as i have checked this gun in my hands..... there is no mark of being operated upon...
its really tough job to find the right clue for it... an expert can solve this problem.... may be Skeeter sahib or shano shah sb

Sparticas
30-06-2010, 09:18 PM
Just as an afterthought... does any part (or anything for that matter) indicate that it has been "operated upon" by a local gunsmith? Perhaps someone from Darra?

Dear KF, if by operated upon you mean modified or serviced by a local gunsmith then the Answer is Yes, coz it is quite an old gun and as i ve heard it has done its duty righteously, so for some faults and through cleaning it would av been sent to a local gunsmith. and dear as far as my assessment about the gun is its rear sight has been repaired or completely changed by some local gunsmith.

Rotorcrafts
30-06-2010, 09:38 PM
For some markings on the Gun .... especially for Kagefox Dear.







http://s2.postimage.org/EHKKS.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsEHKKS)

http://s2.postimage.org/EI6c9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsEI6c9)

http://s2.postimage.org/EICD0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsEICD0)


I once used a 12 gauge shotgun like this but this one is definitely not a shotgun. That particular shotgun was an antique and was made in the arsenal of ishapore (india) under the british rule. i really dont remember if it had a manufacturing date or not as i used it a very long time ago. still i think it was something from the 1800`s.

Sparticas
03-07-2010, 12:37 PM
@ rotorcraft and sir did you sell it after words ?

Rotorcrafts
03-07-2010, 01:09 PM
well it was not mine to start with, I fired only a few shots.