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View Full Version : Surprise from Taurus a 9mm 1911



AK-86
25-03-2010, 10:11 AM
hey guys i was surfing the Taurus Site and found something real interesting and new, its a 1911 with a 9mm cal. I think thats a good news for those who like to keep 1911 but cannot afford the expensive .45 ammo and recoil of it.
here is the link:

http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=677&category=Pistol&toggle=&breadcrumbseries=

Aquarius
25-03-2010, 01:16 PM
Yes I have gone through this link before as well, but is it available in the market..? Actually I am more interested (as mentioned in this link) in their 1911 HC.45ACP which has 12 rounds mag capacity & its performance, hope its not that ugly as the Norinco's HC1911s with 14rd capacity..... :/

Gilani
25-03-2010, 04:10 PM
Is Taurus 1911 in 9mm available in Pakistan? Please do share if it is available anywhere. :)

Aquarius brother, IMHO true beauty of a 1911 can be seen in single stack magazine models only. When a 1911 is fitted with a double stack magazine, it gets as ugly as Norinco NP44. In my personal preference, 1911 should only be bought in traditional 7 or 8 rounds capacity (or 9 rounds for 9mm). If one is looking for higher capacity, 1911 is not the right gun I believe. :)

Aquarius
25-03-2010, 05:34 PM
Yes Gilani Sir you are absolutely rite........ :)

Starfish
25-03-2010, 08:02 PM
Is Taurus 1911 in 9mm available in Pakistan? Please do share if it is available anywhere. :)

Aquarius brother, IMHO true beauty of a 1911 can be seen in single stack magazine models only. When a 1911 is fitted with a double stack magazine, it gets as ugly as Norinco NP44. In my personal preference, 1911 should only be bought in traditional 7 or 8 rounds capacity (or 9 rounds for 9mm). If one is looking for higher capacity, 1911 is not the right gun I believe. :)
on themore conservative side, the true beauty of a 1911 is in .45 :P
9mm is margarine. banaspati :P

Pistol
25-03-2010, 08:22 PM
on themore conservative side, the true beauty of a 1911 is in .45 :P
9mm is margarine. banaspati :P

I second that, the 1911 was originally designed for .45.

However, if it can withstand the blast of a .45 then it would definately be good enough for 9mm. Though, it would not be optimum design for 9mm (weight/strength ratio etc.).

Senior member may have more elaborate comments in this one.

SPAYPANTHER
25-03-2010, 08:28 PM
+1 starfish and pistol

It is not attractive in 9mm!

MIdreesTaj
25-03-2010, 09:47 PM
1911 was designed around .45 ACP.. It is not a gun suitable for other calibers provided the same round capacity and design features.

Gilani
26-03-2010, 06:12 AM
@Pistol, Spaypanther and Idrees Taj sahib:
I am interested in buying a 1911 in 9mm, obviously due to the cheap availability of ammo. However, I have no experience on 1911 in 9mm caliber. Could someone share his experience as to why 1911 is not that good in 9 mm parabellum and what problems / defecencies are generally observed.
thanks

PrivateEye
26-03-2010, 05:13 PM
No problems at all Gilani Sir, given the magazine is single stack as it spoils the shape of a 1911, result is a very thick grip which isn't a tradition of a 1911. Next is the stopping power in which .45 is better than 9mm (the word is BETTER, i didn't say that 9mm is not good as a defensive round).
I would say that a 9mm 1911 would be a good choice as .45 ammo is very expensive here. Recoil would also be minimal considering all metal gun. Capacity is 9+1, which according to me is sufficient in any defensive situation. Rest i don't think i need to do all the praising that a 1911 deserves, on the grounds of pointability, accuracy, etc and the reputation of Taurus as far as 1911s are concerned.

Gilani
26-03-2010, 06:30 PM
@PrivateEye.
Thanks for the information Sir. I believe in firing my guns and I do fire them a lot. Therefore, availability of ammo is always my prime concern. In my reckoning, even a top gun in such a caliber for which ammo is not easily (and cheaply) available in Pakistan, is good for nothing. :)

PrivateEye
26-03-2010, 07:43 PM
I second you on this. Buying and then storing firearms is not at all permissible by law :P
Buy those which you will use and use them alot :)

wasifali89
26-03-2010, 10:41 PM
i think there is no point of a 1911 without a .45

a 9mm 1911 would just be like the chinese make a rolls royce

or a mercedes with a toyota engine

Dr Zakir
26-03-2010, 10:54 PM
I have fired a colt commander in 9 mm owned MOEEN and it is tremendous gun . 1911 is great in 9 mm also and this design works in any calibre

Gilani
26-03-2010, 10:59 PM
i think there is no point of a 1911 without a .45

a 9mm 1911 would just be like the chinese make a rolls royce

or a mercedes with a toyota engine
Wasif sahib, is this opinion based on any technical reason or range performance? Have any problems been observed with a 1911 in 9mm Parabellum? Please do apprise if you have any practical information.

Aquarius
27-03-2010, 12:28 AM
How about a 1911 in .22 caliber.

http://s1.postimage.org/zT719.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxzT719)

Must be a good one for starters............... ;)

PrivateEye
27-03-2010, 12:58 AM
Gilani Sir, go ahead and buy it, if available. You wont regret it
What Wasif Sahab said is just his opinion. Some wouldn't prefer a 1911 other than .45, others may like it in other calibers, say 9mm or .22 .. Like i don't like a 1911 other than metal, there are some manufactures producing 1911s in polymer frames, others may love it in polymers. These are just inclinations based on tastes.

If you wanna hear about any functional faults, then there are none. As stated by Dr. Zakir, which is based on his personal experience.

Gilani
27-03-2010, 06:36 AM
PrivateEye and Dr Zakir sahib. Thanks for your comments.

Brother PrivateEye, I agree with you on this. Personal preference is altogether a different thing and should not be brought in to consideration when commenting on the quality of a weapon. Comments concerning performance / quality of weapon can only be offered after one has fired that handgun and used it enough (not just 5 or 10 rounds), the gun has been exposed to field conditions and has been carried on person for sometime.

Just for an example, personally I prefer the shape of 1911 over say the shape of Glock 17, however, when commenting on Glock 17's performance I need to see that how accurate it was at the range, how did it respond to different ammos, how was the comfort or discomfort while carrying in holster, was the field stripping and cleaning convenient or problematic, is the gun rugged enough to take the abuse in the field etc etc. Now if Glock has performed well in these areas than I must finally comment that Glock is a good pistol, even if personally I dont like the shape of Glock 17.

And similarly, if a 1911 from a particular manufacturer has not performed that well on the range, I must comment that these were the faults observed while testing this gun hence its not that good a pistol, even if I love the shape of a 1911.

That is why I was asking the respected members whether they have observed any flaws / problems with a 1911 in 9mm caliber when they fired it or it is just their personal preference which is not backed up by range experience. If it was the first case than I might reconsider buying a 1911 in 9mm, but if it is just their personal preference that it does not matter.

regards

Luger
27-03-2010, 09:10 AM
Serbia was under embargo of UN from 1992. to 2000.

Since it was almost no import at all, small number of variants of 1911
that has been somehow imported were mostly in 9 mm.
not to mention that they were priced 10 times or more than ordinary zastava handguns then.

those who choose to pay that much for pistols than were real sport shooters,
and those handguns were made mostly of best american and europian parts for 1911.

they worked well in 9 mm.

taurus is one of manufacturers that made great growth in sales of their products,
in conditions of very hard competition on the market. it did not happen by accident...

although I personally do not have experience with taurus 1911, I am sure that it is
very good pistol, and like any other 1911 it can be easily adjusted to be almost
perfect with small personal effort ( polishing barrel ramp if needed, choosing more
adequate recoil spring or trigger parts, adjusting extractor, etc ).

experience with chinese 1911, but in .45 is:

after about 500 rounds from brand new gun, all rounds were prvi partizan fmj,
and american .45 ammo from second world war for thopson, rings on the barrel that
locks it with the slide lost their shape, pistol was not accurate any more.
chinese parts for 1911 on the other hand are used by some very expensive european
manufacturers like peter stahl for example ( slides and frames, not barrels ), but those parts
are for sure hardened and adjusted for use in european workshps, not in china, and it has
it price for that.

there is not reason to suspect in taurus sir.

:)

Aquarius
27-03-2010, 11:41 AM
Thanks for the information & sharing Luger bro......

Dr Zakir
27-03-2010, 01:16 PM
yes .22 also . offered 350k for a kimber 1911 with .22 conversion kit.

MIdreesTaj
27-03-2010, 09:02 PM
@Pistol, Spaypanther and Idrees Taj sahib:
I am interested in buying a 1911 in 9mm, obviously due to the cheap availability of ammo. However, I have no experience on 1911 in 9mm caliber. Could someone share his experience as to why 1911 is not that good in 9 mm parabellum and what problems / defecencies are generally observed.
thanks
Gilani sahab, above and below mentioned comments on 1911 not being for 9mm are solely based on the .45acp concept which the gun was designed on. A Traditional design for launching 45acp. IMO, a combat handgun concept, launching 9mm from a low capacity magazine(where there is a plathora of better options available) and an all steel platform heavier than even a Beretta 92FS isn't sounding that much efficient. If the Beretta wasnt designed around 9mm it could easily be the most over done and bulky pistol(where there is a plathora of better options available).

However there is nothing wrong with 1911 in 9mm practically if you intend to shoot it. Logically the platform can even handle .357mag with a little beefed up lugs and bushings like we see a Coonan pistol based on 1911 design. More, it surely is going to give you a 3pound 1911 trigger and very low recoil given that Taurus has not gone out of specs. You will get a nice or even better gun you might appear in informal matches with.
On the other hand, 'Custom Job' (Trigger, sights, magwells, recoil springs) option which really shines the 1911 platform dwindles over here in Pak.

Gilani
27-03-2010, 09:16 PM
Thanks for the information Idrees sahib. That is what I wanted to know. If no problems observed during firing than I am good to go with a 9mm 1911 :)

MIdreesTaj
27-03-2010, 09:33 PM
Sir you are most welcome.. and I hope 1911 in 9mm will give you great shooting experience :)

AK-86
29-03-2010, 01:33 PM
But still i think its not available in pakistan right now, because its a new product from taurus so everyone will have to wait for it.

Faisji
31-03-2010, 10:26 PM
The US army in 80's considered converting 1911 side arms to 9 mm briefly before opting for 92f.

From the accounts of those who have used them, slide whose mass and weight was geared to the powerful .45 round, the 1911 only works with 9x19 amino with a very light recoil spring. That makes it much easier for older shooters, or those with small hands or slender wrists, to operate its slide. Being a distinctly heavier pistol than, say, a Browning Hi-Power, the 1911 transmits only a gentle bump to the shooter when it spits a 9mm Parabellum round. Describing the recoil of a centerfire pistol with the phrase "It kicks like a .22" is one of the most tired and overused comments in gun-writing, but in this case, it comes awfully close to the sensation of firing a 1911 with a standard pressure 9mm load.

Also the price benefit of ammo price in Pakistan cannot be overlooked either.

Also other gun companies have had 9mm in 1911 for a while.

Gilani
31-03-2010, 11:09 PM
+1 Faisji sahib. Companies like STI, Kimber etc are producing quality 1911s in 9x19 Para and are quite successful. Some of the top 1911 target pistols like STI Target Master and Kimber Goldmatch come in 9mm parabellum as well.

Aquarius
31-03-2010, 11:45 PM
Yes ofcourse, companies like Kimber, STI, Springfield, Para & Colt are making 9mm calliber 1911s, and they are excellent in performance & are quite successful......... :)

ay_be_why
01-04-2010, 07:27 AM
I'm waiting for the Norinco and Taurus offerings to show up in our markets... :(

Aquarius
01-04-2010, 02:02 PM
Does anyone knows about the availability of Philippines Armscor 1911s in the market and its performance etc....

Gilani
01-04-2010, 06:44 PM
hmmm..... an Armscor 1911. Are they available in Pakistan? Anyone who has the personal experience of using Armscor 1911?

spasha
03-04-2010, 12:36 PM
@Pistol, Spaypanther and Idrees Taj sahib:
I am interested in buying a 1911 in 9mm, obviously due to the cheap availability of ammo. However, I have no experience on 1911 in 9mm caliber. Could someone share his experience as to why 1911 is not that good in 9 mm parabellum and what problems / defecencies are generally observed.
thanks

well I am one of those who have a love affair with 1911s since early 1990s when I first got hold of a Remington Rand 1911 made around mid 1920s which I upgraded with Wilson Combat parts worth US $ 350. Then bought the Colt Combat Elite and a Colt Special Combat Govt Modlel in .45 acp from Colt Custom shop, but was mad enough to sell it some years later. That piece is somewhere in peshawar! and would regret my entire life. That was perhaps the only piece in the country. Then bought a Taurus 1911 which has all the bells and whistles the Colt Custom shop gun had. Later also managed to get my hands on a 1911 9 mm built in US on a S.S frame and slide from phillipines. This has more bells than any other 1911 gun I had including a Smith and Alexander Mag well with checkered main spring housing and clark barrel, high rise beavertail grip safety and Bomar ajustable rear sight.

As far as I am concerened, the 1911s are range guns for me as I have adjusted the triggers to under 4 pounds. The recoil of a 45 acp round fired from a 1911 does not bother me at all. I have shot several one hole groups with the pt1911, Colt Custom 1911 and I am doing the same with the 9mm 1911.

There were times when 45 acp round was available for Rs 5 and the 9mm from POF costed 8 or 9 Rs. Hence it was cheap fun to fire round after round of 45 acps. Now the situation has changed. 45 acp is more that Rs 70 whereas 9mm is half the price. Therefore you can do twice the amount of practice with a 9mm.

The recoil of the 9mm in a 1911 is a ***** cat and mind it, the 9mm is no slouch when it comes to stopping power. Hence one can use it as a regular carry gun.

To be frank, this 9mm 1911 is my hottest favorite and i usually pull this piece from below my bed before going to sleep. (it is like a bed time story or a LORI for me). The size of the 9mm and 45 acp are exactly the same.

So folks, if you can get hold of a 9 mm 1911, go for it. I assure you, you wont be dissapointed. Taurus PT 1911 will be available in stores in the US in May 2010. A few others like Springfield, Kimber, Wilson and Rock ISland Armory (based on slides and frames from philipines) STI and Les Baer market 1911s in 9 mm but they are usually above $1500. However Taurus PT1911 in 9mm would be available in $ 600 price range which in Pakistan, one should be able to buy around Rs 70,000. Another good buy would be from the new Iver Johnson company which is having there 1911s built in philipines on slides and frames made in philipines and internal parts supplied by iver johnson.

Like so many others around the world, i am also dying to lay my hands on the 9mm PT 1911 when it becomes available.

good luck'

sikandar pasha

Aquarius
03-04-2010, 01:58 PM
Very nice information Pasha Sahib... thanks for sharing... BTW which 1911 is considered the best among all those you mentioned above, irrespective of the calliber, as I asked the same question from Mr Steven as well. Lets see whats your choice is..... :)

Gilani
03-04-2010, 07:56 PM
Thanks for a very informative reply Pasha sahib. Very educative indeed.

Luger
04-04-2010, 05:23 AM
i would like just to make a quick comment on post made by spasha:

sir, you are right, 1911 are good, and maybe more than that,
just maybe when you buy one of many variants attention should be
on technology of manufacturer, because molded ( cheaper in mass production ) parts
are not so good as cold hammered or forged in solid steel, what affects on
life expectancy of whole pistol.

on the other side, those parts and pistols are much more cheaper than
ones made in good materials and technology, so at the end it is the question of choice,
or the money.

:)