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12GAUGE
14-02-2010, 02:57 PM
AoA Everybody

Moeen Bhai once told me that CZ 999 Scorpion's magazines and Berretta 92's mags look almost identical. that gave me an idea, I asked Moeen Bhai to arrange some clone beretta mags for me so I can try and see for myself. plus i've always admired the plastic base plate of a beretta 92 mags. to me they kinda give the gun a very refined personality. something that lacked in CZ 999 Scorpion. so I guess, this was my cue for a little experiment. install the beretta's base plate to a CZ 999 mag. Moeen Bhai got two clone beretta 92 mags for me. special thanks to SKENGINEERING. enough said, I'll let the pictures do all the talking. Kindly excuse my bad photography. its just not my thing.

STANDARD CZ 999 SCORPION
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/CZ999/Image0153.jpg

BASE PLATES REMOVED (CZ 999 SCORPION: TOP , BERETTA 92: BOTTOM) courtesy of skengineering (Sher Khan Sb.)
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/CZ999/Image0154.jpg

SOME COARSE SANDING OF THE SIDES OF THE PLASTIC BASE PLATE TO ENSURE A PROPER FIT
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/CZ999/Image0155.jpg

SOME FINE SANDING TO ENHANCE THE FINISH
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/CZ999/Image0158.jpg

INSTALLING THE PLASTIC BASE PLATE TO CZ 999 SCORPION'S MAGAZINE
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/CZ999/Image0159.jpg

FINISHED CZ 999 SCORPION
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/CZ999/Image0160.jpg

FINISHED CZ 999 SCORPION WITH BOTH FACTORY STANDARD AND MODIFIED MAG
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/CZ999/Image0161.jpg

BEFORE AND AFTER
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/CZ999/BEFOREAFTER.jpg

I must say that the plastic base plate feels and looks as if its made for this procedure. the base plate and the frame mate perfectly. the plastic base plate also extends the magazine a little, significantly increasing the grip area and greatly improving the grip characteristics of CZ 999 scorpion.

all members are requested to extend their comments/suggestions.

Regards.

Slayerjatt
14-02-2010, 03:17 PM
lovely. excellent d.i.y approach. very well done sir.

Denovo87
14-02-2010, 03:34 PM
Bravo 12gauge bro, what an idea sir jee :) a very simple & DIY approach to customize CZ999 weldone bro.

Luger
14-02-2010, 03:34 PM
upper part of magazine spring, that is not seen on your pictures, has one side ( goes to the front side of the pistol )
more lifted, higher.

always turn this side of the spring towards front sight of the pistol when you assembly magazine,
otherwise it can cause jamming.

also, if you are in position, try to have guiding rails on the slide and on the frame light oiled.

reason for this is extended length of rails for greater precision of your gun, and bad friction between steel
of the slide and aluminum of the frame, so in this way you help your gun to work easier, and surely
not to jam if your ammo is ok ...

this is not something bad, sig sauer works exactly the same, and for sig advise is the same ...

if you put more oil than is needed, do not worry, slide will eject it while moving ...

plastik cover for magazine maybe look better, but also can not ever be hard as steel, so if your magazine often
drops on ground, steel magazine cover after many falls will look awful, but will still be in one piece,
what is not sure for plastic ...

regards, it was just friendly opinion...

Sensei
14-02-2010, 03:46 PM
Amazing pics and wonderful experiment with incredible results so nice of you brother 12 gauge for sharing shuch a nice thing with us http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy119.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php) http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy119.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

Taurus
14-02-2010, 04:33 PM
12 gauge very very nice experiment and I hope as the doc says operation is succesful ..so is in your case...well fitting is looking amazing

Gilani
14-02-2010, 05:04 PM
Very nice experiment 12guage Sir. CZ999 sure looks smarter this way though Mr Luger from Serbia also has a point regarding the toughness of a plasitic made viz-a-viz original metal plate.

By the way, from where to get these Baretta 92 plastic baseplates? Though I have a PT99 which also has the same baseplates, I would not like to experiment on that. :)

regards

9mm Luger
14-02-2010, 05:56 PM
+1 12 gauge and Luger Sir I am becoming ever more impressed with the depth of your knowledge.. keep it coming Sir!! :)

Dr Zakir
14-02-2010, 06:20 PM
Good for us . Think cz fever is going to start

Abbas
14-02-2010, 06:26 PM
Excellent, easy and looks great. Fantastic job 12G. Now we need mag plates, lots of em !

Dr Zakir
14-02-2010, 06:50 PM
How about making 18 round magzines

Taurus
14-02-2010, 08:26 PM
Dr.Zakir:- u mean to say like change in the cover plate to add more rounds on the mag that would be gr8

Luger
14-02-2010, 08:49 PM
i can help it...

letīs make this interesting, if you would like 18 rounds in magazine that normally holds 15,
and have to stay in standard size ( no extensions ! ), how would you do it ?

there is answer, try to find it ...

those magazines were made in serbia, not for cz 999, but for cz 99, i think that they are patented,
and according to serbian odd story for great inventions never even properly tested, serial production
not even to think about...

minor number were hand made and sold, and whole story was forgotten ...

can you find out what i am talking about ?

:)

A.Abbas
14-02-2010, 09:07 PM
Nice job 12gauge, looks nice with plastic base plate/cover. :)

Ka_Khan
14-02-2010, 10:06 PM
First of all We wellcome Luger from Serbia and what a timely 'entry' for this thread :)
@12 guage ....well done.I think your love for Handguns grew more after that Guns Club incident ;)
We hope to hear more innovations from you ...

Starfish
14-02-2010, 11:10 PM
i can help it...

...................
can you find out what i am talking about ?

:)
may be the helix spring technology?

A.Abbas
15-02-2010, 12:26 AM
I think the tapper spring can increase the capacity by 2-3 rounds.

12GAUGE
15-02-2010, 12:38 AM
@All

thank you everybody. I truly appreciate your kind words/comments/suggestions.

@Luger

the only way i can think of "to increase the mag capacity with the given size (standard size) magazine body" is by adding an extended magazine base plate. i'm thinking any standard beretta/sig extended base plate can be modified in a similar manner such as above.

However I could be wrong here and if you have a better solution, Kindly do share with us.

Regards.

Sami
15-02-2010, 12:55 AM
A.S.A, very innovative 12 Gauge, Dear you r one true gun enthusiast with taste and vision. Thanks for sharing. A-H

Luger
15-02-2010, 05:35 AM
i was feeling same when i was first asked how to increase capacity for 3 rounds
and to stay in same size of the 9 mm pistol magazine ...

:)

only space left in full magazine is the space where is placed magazine spring that pushes
follower up and feed the pistol.

if we remove the spring and gain the space for 3 additional bullets we loose force that should
lift bullets up for feeding.

so, only logical solution was to find another shape for magazine spring.for that was used spring that
is in use in mechanical clocks for winding mechanism. that spring was attached to inner back side of
magazine with one of itīs ends, and on small wheel mounted on lower side of the follower with other.

that is how new space inside of magazine was gained without increasing it size.
rounds were pulled up instead of standard push by spring that pushes follower with one of it ends,
and magazine well with other end.

problem could appear in guidance of magazine follower, which was solved by additional rails
inside of magazine. those magazines worked well for sporting purposes, but since this solution
was new and little more complicated than standard design for magazines, military and police
refused to take it on testing. it seems to be unreliable for them from a start like an idea ...

this was invention of designer of cz 99 himself, and now hardly anyone remembers it at all...

i do not have a pictures or technical drawings to explain better, but i hope that you can understand
what i was talking about.

for sporting purposes one inch longer magazine was not a problem, so interest even from this side
was not enough...

Gilani
15-02-2010, 06:49 AM
Luger bro, you have a real in depth knowledge of handguns. Thanks for sharing very practical tips, I am learning a lot from your posts. :)

Having said this, I would personally say that any alteration in the original design must provide some significant advantage to the user and needless to say, must be flawlessly executed. You see, magazine is a very important part of a handgun and any problem in magazine, may be a very minor one, can have fatal consequences at that crucial time when you need the gun to function flawlessly.

I would therefore ask this question from everyone that what significant advantage are we getting by increasing the magazine capacity by 3 rounds? Is that advantage worth taking the risk of altering the original magazine of the handgun?

Personally speaking, my answer would be no. In 99% situations I think, 15 rounds would be enough and if at all there is a need to carry more ammo, extra magazine(s) is the answer which would straightaway increase the capacity by 15 rounds with each extra magazine. I would therefore not like to change any original mechanism of the handgun at the cost of something which has limited significance. This, however, is my personal view. Others can share there views on this :)
regards

Moeen
15-02-2010, 07:33 AM
Salam All,
@12 Gauge - good work, see when I am done with you - you will be a full fledged Gun Smith.

@all - Convert it to a higher round mag; this will be another project that I will be giving to 12 Gauge. Also the magazine capacity can be increased by atleast +2 in the standard housing. Its a simple matter of decreasing the bottom end of the follower AT-AN-ANGLE; 12 Gauge, you now have this new assignment.
Lastly the magazine plates are plastic and thanks to Sher Khan of SK Engineering these mags were possible and so will be more mag floor plates in the future as necessary.

@Luger - the base plate is not as strong as the original Beretta Aluminum base plate; however, they are strong enough to burden a drop or two on the ground (we don't make a habit of dropping our mags to the ground here in Pak.). And should the floor plate break, there are plenty more available at a rate which may astound even you.:)

LionHeart
15-02-2010, 09:26 AM
@12guage:

Sir Jee nice experiment and successful to as look for the desired objective.... You achieve it perfectly as your handgun is looking more applying then before with standard mag plate. Great Job and also good photography.

Best of Luck for the next one

regards,

Starfish
15-02-2010, 09:40 AM
basically we have these two easily available options:

the conical helix:

http://s4.postimage.org/YwdWS.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVYwdWS)

and the volute:


http://s4.postimage.org/YwbrJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVYwbrJ)

Mohammad
15-02-2010, 10:20 AM
excellent work done

Moeen
15-02-2010, 04:37 PM
Salam All,
Here are some pics of Beretta magazine base pads.... bear in mind that there are other designs out there as well by other manufacturers.
No comments about my photography please :) Any input regarding my photography by members is welcome PROVIDED it is accompanied with a new camera!!!:D


http://s1.postimage.org/wYBHJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxwYBHJ)
From right to left: Beretta OEM Mag w/silver base pad, Beretta OEM Mag w/rubber base pad, and aftermarket magazine w/plastic base pad which requires two holes to be drilled/tapped/screwed on.

http://s1.postimage.org/wY_E9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxwY_E9)

http://s1.postimage.org/wZjBi.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxwZjBi)

http://s1.postimage.org/wZIxJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxwZIxJ)
The Beretta mag in the center is ONLY available with the rare Beretta 92 STOCK or the Beretta 92 Combat Combo as seen above.

Luger
15-02-2010, 08:49 PM
starfish

thank you, i was missing english word for it, it is volute spring.

gilani

excellent thinking ! for shooting range or home protection, or similar reasons, difference of 3 rounds
on 15 is not much.this post about new construction was given like an idea, and story that has a sad end.

most reliable ever magazine is straight line with europen catch at the bottom. all other solutions, including
15 rounds for 9 mm are not so reliable, or will never be.

the easiest way to feed the weapon is clean,, straight push of a spring, and every complication can lead
this small machine to a jam, that in some situation can cost someone a life. for my magazines and for
using them for self protection i would never choose one with volute spring, but on a shooting range
it would be interested to use them.

my personal experience with changing base plates on magazines: for my small m 70 in 90- ies i found small
workshop in belgrade that has been producing base plates from some kind of aluminum.
young, and as you today, wanted to experiment, i bought several pieces and as i got home
i changed all original steel plates on all magazines with new , lighter and better looking ones.
on a range, several times in fast changing of magazines i dropped them on the floor.
bases were a little bit damaged, but nothing to worry about.
till one day, without any reasonable cause, while my pistol was in my holster on my belt,
one of those light metal plates did not fall apart in little pieces.

i studied mechanical faculty in belgrade, i never graduated ( we had war in here in those years, so
i was interrupted ), but i still can understand many reasons why that could happen.
reasons for this, anyhow, are less important than the fact that my base plate simply turned in pieces
while gun was not used, and spring fly away from magazine, and i was in this second unarmed.
disgrace not to talk about...

since than, on my magazines i do not want anything except real steel, although some other solutions look
sometimes better. only improvement that i accept is rubber, but mounted under steel base plate, to amortize drop
on the ground if i have to eject magazine in a hurry.

Gilani
15-02-2010, 10:03 PM
I agree Sir. Unless one is gaining a very significant advantage through alteration and also, it is guaranteed that the weapon will function with same efficiency; any alterations in the original weapon should preferably be avoided. Such weapons would not deceive you while they are lying in the cabinet, they will do so when you need them the most. However, one can have extra magazines fitted with such things which one may use on the range etc but not while carrying a weapon on person. Thanks for the comments Sir, its always rewarding to read your comments :)
regards

12GAUGE
16-02-2010, 10:23 AM
@Luger

Sir, you are right that a plastic magazine floor/base plate can never be as tough as a steel one and a plastic one can fall apart and I absolutely agree with you on that. however I have found the plastic plate to be quiet sturdy/tough therefore I think it will continue to work as expected unless i drop it on concrete floor.

I am however giving serious thought to your idea of using a rubber base plate with steel insert in it. that should solve the durability issues associated with plastic-only base plates.

kindly review the base plate at the following link and advise if it's worth pursuing.

http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/PROD/A-3-0010/C57058

I know its beretta but from my experiment i've learned that a beretta's base plate can easily be installed on a CZ 999 Scorpion's magazine with some slight alterations, if any.

Regards.

12GAUGE
21-02-2010, 04:17 PM
AoA Everybody

After the "mag floor plate" episode, I was looking to take this whole customizing thing up a notch. so, the first thing that came to my head was customized grip panels. so after quiet a bit of research and pulling a lot of strings in the process, I got the grips made out of buffalo horn. believe me guyz, buffalo horn feels awesome in one's hands. it has a very natural clinging feel to it. far better than cheap plastic (dead and lacking character) grips.

RIGHT GRIP
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/Image0167.jpg

LEFT GRIP
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/Image0166.jpg

RIGHT GRIP IN SUNLIGHT
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/Image0168.jpg

LEFT GRIP IN SUNLIGHT
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/Image0170.jpg

RIGHT GRIP CLOSEUP
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/Image0172.jpg

LEFT GRIP CLOSEUP
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/Image0171.jpg

Acknowledgement

1. Mr. Hameed Chadda Sb. of News Stainless Industries. dont have words to express my gratitude as he totally diverted his workforce to do this grip making job which took 8 hours of hard manual work to complete. not to mention some of the guys were called in late to do the polishing.
2. Denovo87 bhai for his company and expert advise (constant guidance would be more appropriate way of saying it) during the Wazirabad trip. without his help it would have been impossible for me.
3. Moeen Bhai for his constant support and Ideas. without him, I simply cannot undertake such projects cause I know in a SHTF scenario, I can always run to him to get my A$$ out of trouble.
4. Mr. Ashfaq of Stainless Industries, Wazirabad. the man who basically did all the work.

WHAT I'VE LEARNED:

1. stag (deer horn) might look good but it has a hard feel to it. not worth pursuing in my humble opinion
2. Camel bone also looks good and has a good feel to it. however to make extremely thin grips you run the risk of cracking or chipping it.
3. buffalo horn is the best material for handgun grips. wow! it has a very natural clinging feel to it. not only you grip it, it also grips you back. very soft and leathery feel.
4. the grain in bufflo horn grips look awesome in sunlight. it is sorta multicolored. very classy. and only works best when bought to a full shine using buffing machine.
5. grip making is a P.I.A. job. took us 8 hours of grueling hard work. yes! me and Denovo Bhai were both knees deep in work too.
6. CZ 999's grips are extremely difficult to make. its not just a flat panel, its a functional part of the frame. its skeletonized and lots and lots of channels built under it to facilitate movement of springs and sprockets.
7. customized grips totally change the characteristics of a handgun. i'm not talking about cosmetic changes. a good grip, a natural material grip, totally alters how you feel when you grip the handgun.
8. custom grips are a must if you want to truly enjoy a handgun. plastic grips installed by the manufacturer are a P.O.S. they are only used because they are cheap to make and are quick to mass produce.

Regards.

Gilani
21-02-2010, 04:29 PM
Great stuff. This CZ really looks elegent. 12guage sahib, you are one dedicated individual who is always up to the mark. Great job and thanks a lot for sharing. I wonder how the bone grips in brown colour (Browning Higpower like) or in cream colour would have looked :)

Please do report on the range performance, whether it make shooting easier or convenient for you?

regards

12GAUGE
21-02-2010, 04:55 PM
Great stuff. This CZ really looks elegent. 12guage sahib, you are one dedicated individual who is always up to the mark. Great job and thanks a lot for sharing. I wonder how the bone grips in brown colour (Browning Higpower like) or in cream colour would have looked :)

Please do report on the range performance, whether it make shooting easier or convenient for you?

regards

Thank you Sir. the bone grips do look good but I've felt that they have a hard feel to them. thats why I opted for Buffalo horn which is much nicer.

Regards.

Gilani
21-02-2010, 05:05 PM
Thanks. Did you get the buffalo horn polished. Is this the natural colour of the horn. Is it possible to get it coloured in brown?

Sorry for too many questions, but the thing looks too nice to be left like that :)

12GAUGE
21-02-2010, 05:43 PM
Thanks. Did you get the buffalo horn polished. Is this the natural colour of the horn. Is it possible to get it coloured in brown?

Sorry for too many questions, but the thing looks too nice to be left like that :)

yes sir, I did get the horn polished and yes its the natural color of the horn which is sorta multiple shades of black. i'm sure one can get it colored but didnt really inquire about it. why change the already beautiful color of it?

Regards.

Gilani
21-02-2010, 05:50 PM
Agreed. It looks beautiful :)

Enigmatic Desires
21-02-2010, 06:23 PM
So 12 guage... when are u putting in a a death ray appendage below the barrel?

Abbas
21-02-2010, 06:49 PM
Very beautiful 12G, you were right, it looks exceptional in the sunlight. If you get the chance do try ones made in Ivory, they will look spectacular with the black pistol.

Moeen
21-02-2010, 07:08 PM
Salam All,
@12 Gauge - Very well done, by the way, see its Chadda not Chatta... This guy is the brother of Khalid Chadda... good so you went to the same place. Mubarak.... NOW on to the next project... it will cost a bit but all I can say is X5 Sig - Look out!!! Think threaded barrel and frame comp.. Yes, its possible.

Denovo87
21-02-2010, 09:05 PM
Since I witnessed the whole episode of a simple horn turning into this beautiful peice of handicraft so dont think I need to write any praising words. But 12gauge bro surely deserve all the praise for his comitment (KHARISH per his own words) to complete this peace of art, he traveled from Islamabad to Wazirabad via Jalalpur.
12gauge bro you missed one name in acknowlgemement so let me add it, he was Mr. Ashfaq (Mohda Doee) sample maker/mistry of New stainless industries a man with two wives & 8 teeth, who did everything by himself from cutting peices from a horn till finishing these in 8 hours non-stop :)

HasanJamshad
21-02-2010, 09:42 PM
12Gauge brother you really are a man of ideas. I am sure had you been in this world a century or two earlier you must had many inventions patentd in your name. If i remember correctly Denovo brother has played leading role in the completion of at least two projects of yours. Keep it up brothers :)

12GAUGE
21-02-2010, 10:20 PM
Since I witnessed the whole episode of a simple horn turning into this beautiful peice of handicraft so dont think I need to write any praising words. But 12gauge bro surely deserve all the praise for his comitment (KHARISH per his own words) to complete this peace of art, he traveled from Islamabad to Wazirabad via Jalalpur.
12gauge bro you missed one name in acknowlgemement so let me add it, he was Mr. Ashfaq (Mohda Doee) sample maker/mistry of New stainless industries a man with two wives & 8 teeth, who did everything by himself from cutting peices from a horn till finishing these in 8 hours non-stop :)


Denovo bhai I wanted to add his name but couldnt remember real name. now since I know (thanks to you for remembering), i'll immediately edit the list and add his name.

just an slight inappropriate thought: did I travel all the way to get me a horn? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Regards.

12GAUGE
21-02-2010, 10:22 PM
12Gauge brother you really are a man of ideas. I am sure had you been in this world a century or two earlier you must had many inventions patentd in your name. If i remember correctly Denovo brother has played leading role in the completion of at least two projects of yours. Keep it up brothers :)


yup! two and counting.

Regards.

Dr Zakir
21-02-2010, 11:18 PM
Congrtulations 12 gauge on finishing of your project . Would love to check out your cz . Could they have been white ? Why don't u make something in gold colour on grips and also cz in gold

Dr Zakir
21-02-2010, 11:19 PM
Denovo bahi aap ney Kia Banwaiya

Ilyas
21-02-2010, 11:21 PM
Wow simply fantastic 12G! Now this is one hell of a make over :)
BTW how much did these cost you?

A.Abbas
21-02-2010, 11:44 PM
Simply Excellent, 12gauge, very beautiful grip and finish. :) and love the light side in 41st post. :lol:
Is there any weight difference with the plastic one?

Mohammad
22-02-2010, 09:11 AM
it looks awesome

12GAUGE
22-02-2010, 09:53 AM
@Dr Zakir

absolutely would love to show it to you sir. it would be my pleasure. hmm.....engraving....good idea Dr. Sb. lemme see if i can find some laser etching machine here.

@Ilyas

no bhai, didnt cost a thing ;)

@A.Abbas

these are slightly heavy than the plastic ones but in theory only. in ones hands one really cannot tell any difference. both types of grip sets are very light and makes it very hard to tell which ones are heavy and which ones are light.

Regards.

Aamar
22-02-2010, 10:32 AM
Excellent stuff, wish i had the skills to make such alterations/upgrades , keep up the good work :)

Dr Zakir
28-02-2010, 08:50 PM
today i met our dear friend 12 gauge at range. he is now off from lubricants and is in serious gun making business. he is turning out into a fine gunsmith now that he is already made grips followed by magzines for cz 999. i tried two of his magzines initially there was some problem to the lock and after firing single shot magzine became loose and there was failure to feed . 12 gauge had come prepared with full tools and after some adjustment every thing was set to go . i after filling magzines with 15 rounds each fired about 100 bullets through both of them flawlessly. CONGRATULATIONS 12 gauge .
mooen and 12 gauge are becoming a gunsmith team and we can now name them both as OFFICIAL GUNSMITHS of pakguns.

Gilani
28-02-2010, 09:43 PM
+1 Dr sahib. Was waiting for the pics to be posted by 12guage :)

Aquarius
02-03-2010, 02:45 PM
Two simple words for bro 12guage 'Experienced & Talented'..

Moeen
02-03-2010, 06:34 PM
Salam All,

@Dr Zakir - Thanks boss.

12GAUGE
02-03-2010, 08:03 PM
AoA Everybody


here are the pictures of the beretta magazines that i've modified for CZ999 scorpion. the yellow line indicates the area modified.

Left: Clone beretta mag (courtesy of SK Engineering)
Middle: Original beretta mag (courtesy of Javaid Bhai aka Glockoholic)
Right: Original beretta mag (courtesy of Moeen Bhai)

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/CZ999/DSC00081-1.jpg

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/CZ999/DSC00078.jpg

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/CZ999/DSC00077.jpg

the clone was intentionally requested to be without any type of finish so that I could learn the proper modification procedure before modifying the original beretta mags. the original beretta mags in the pictures were heavily rusted from the inside and from the outside the finishing/bluing was almost insignificant to begin with. with new mags however this procedure can be carried without harming the finish.

Regards.

12GAUGE
02-03-2010, 08:40 PM
and in case anybody is wondering how I made these modifications. well.......this helped alot:

SENCAN TOOLS: ELECTRIC DIE GRINDER 7025
http://www.sencan-tools.com/photo/c59d26f3178b0930b4929739fe271a51/Electric-Die-Grinder.jpg
http://www.sencan-tools.com/Electric-Die-Grinder-17.html

Regards.

Abbas
02-03-2010, 08:57 PM
Fantastic !

Gilani
02-03-2010, 09:38 PM
@12guage, this is simply marvelous and you are one dedicated person who is a perfectionist. :)

@All,
The actual test of a weapon part is its flawless functionality. No matter how good or bad the finish, if it does not function flawlessly, it is of no utility. I talked to 12guage on this issue and he informed me that over 100 rounds have been fired with the magazine that you see in the pics and THERE HAS NOT BEEN A SINGLE STOPPAGE. Well done 12guage Sir
profound regards :)

Moeen
02-03-2010, 10:22 PM
Salam All,

@12 Gauge - Very Well done bhai. Next project for this has been downloaded - hope you are ready both you and Dr Zakir.

Faheem
02-03-2010, 10:32 PM
12 gauge brother you are doing extreamily good eforts & working for CZ999. I hope soon Russians will offer you job in their Arm factories as a lead designer.

12GAUGE
02-03-2010, 10:34 PM
Salam All,

@12 Gauge - Very Well done bhai. Next project for this has been downloaded - hope you are ready both you and Dr Zakir.


Aye Aye Captain!

Regards.

Ilyas
02-03-2010, 11:11 PM
12Gauge... Bro you have been doing some great stuff lately (including travelling approx. 400kms, just to eat Kabuli Pulao :lol: )
Bro! I'm still waiting for the pics, hope you do it at your earliest convenience ;)

Ka_Khan
03-03-2010, 10:35 PM
400kms, just to eat Kabuli Pulao :lol: )

Ilyas....yawazay yawazay :/
@12 guage...Well done !You soon will be getting orders from CZ 999 Lovers !

DUST
04-03-2010, 07:01 AM
Wow 1gauge.really impressive work.i must say i have become a fan of your dedication.i myself owned a cz999 but replaced it with a np34 after a while as the left side decocking lever was uncomfortable for me as i m trained on a 1911 and so grip the gun higher plus i have huge hands it was bugging my trigger finger.plus the decocking lever sometimes got stuck on me and used to stop half way.i am still amaized as it that weather it was only happening with me or did you guys suffer with it as well.
I have a habbit to have to have alot of accessoris for all the guns i own so i customised berreta mags for it as well.still have them,two of them but no cz.:)
forgot to mention that on forum untill you brought it up.and i guess moeen bhai must be the reson of revealing that info.:)
anyways great job.really impressive.please do let us know if these grips are available for us commoners as well as i again feel tempted to own this gun only coz of the prestige and the gun which has recieved from the GURU's here.but this time if i own it i will definetly remove the left side decocking lever.
But then again one more time really impressive work.
Take care
regards

TT-33
15-03-2010, 07:20 AM
Can I get Local Made Magzine for my CZ 999?, if yes then where from I can get it in Karachi?..plz advice...!

12GAUGE
15-03-2010, 10:09 AM
Can I get Local Made Magzine for my CZ 999?, if yes then where from I can get it in Karachi?..plz advice...!

ummm....you might be able to get local beretta 92 mags modified for your CZ 999 by any good gunsmith or better yet, you can do it yourself if you're handy with tools and stuff. its more fun this way but you do run the risk of ruining a perfectly good mag.


Regards.

MIdreesTaj
15-03-2010, 11:03 AM
Ingenius work @ 12gauge
Best of luck with the armourer's course.

Dr Zakir
15-03-2010, 01:07 PM
still waiting to see your cz with grips on

Mohammad
15-03-2010, 05:24 PM
excellent job done...... hope u come with more interesting and brilliant ideas

Luger
04-04-2010, 03:39 AM
i will post for you one interesting customization of cz 99 ( pre cz 999 model ),
it is made to be held with both arms and has compensator.

maybe someone gets some idea of those pictures.
http://s3.postimage.org/JECVA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqJECVA)

http://s1.postimage.org/5z0xJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx5z0xJ)

http://s4.postimage.org/vjtWr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVvjtWr)

Gilani
04-04-2010, 09:44 AM
Mr Luger. thanks a lot for sharing this :)

Do we have CZ999 Scorpion parts like custom wooden grips etc available on some online shop in Serbia and can they be shipped to Pakistan?

Secondly, can SigP226 custom wooden grips be used with CZ999?
Any information on the above would be appreciated.
Thanks and regards.

HammadArshad
04-04-2010, 01:01 PM
@luger bro, very nice pictures and very good customization. Thanks for sharing

Aquarius
04-04-2010, 03:49 PM
Very nice looking customized CZ999....... thanks for sharing Luger bro... :)

Luger
05-04-2010, 03:40 AM
answers for sir gilani:

- cz 99 and cz 999 ( make difference between this two models, they are very similar but
not the same ! ) and sig series 220 do not have same grips.
notice on this pics that on sig grips are at the back of the frame, on czīs are not.


http://s1.postimage.org/8CKX9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx8CKX9)



http://s2.postimage.org/4H0uA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts4H0uA)

- there is not possibility, as i know, by now to buy on line anything from serbia and have it
shipped to pakistan. i wrote somewhere in here that exports can be made from company
to company. maybe it will change soon, but by now it is not possible.

- on the pic of cz 99 ( count the nines, not cz 999 ) grips are made of turkish walnut,
imported in serbia via romania ( trading is really funny sometimes ) and payed quite a lot.
turkish walnut is much more beautiful than european by my opinion because of specific texture.
i am sure that you can find people that can make those grips, and that you can buy exotic
asian woods for less ( much less ) money than we in here, and have grips made also for much less
money, avoiding the trouble of buying it and shipping, custom clearing etc. not even to talk about.

- walnut what is also better by looks than european is russian, from kavkaz, but all walnuts
are hard and long lasting if they are dried and prepared well.

regards.

:)

12GAUGE
05-04-2010, 11:34 AM
@Luger

Sir! I too have a few questions regarding the CZ 999 "Scorpion". I would really appreciate your response.

1. what is the standard finish/coating on the frame of CZ 999?

2. If I were to remove the standard finish, what would be the preferred method of removal?

3. will the SIG Suer adjustable sights fit the CZ 999? are the slots/dovetail (where sights are
installed) the same?

4. I'm thinking of getting molds made for the grips then cast grips made of hard urethane rubber. the stuff used in hogue grips. it should improve the grip characteristics of CZ 999. any thoughts/opinion?

I would appreciate your time and effort in answering the questions.

Regards.

Glockcohlic
05-04-2010, 11:43 AM
@12gague,

Good Job bro. nicely done.

Luger
05-04-2010, 05:16 PM
answers for mr. 12 gauge :
1.it is called phosphatization. as i wrote in here, barrels are best parts in zastava weapons,
finish is tho worst. frame is aluminum made, it is bad surface for all kinds of finishes,
and phosphate finish is maybe best way, but it is not long lasting as i would like.
same problem appears at beretta 92īs, for example, it falls off the frame by time, especially
in rough field conditions, and white aluminum spoils the look of pistol.

2.polishing ans sand blasting for standard finishes, for chromed sometimes you should use or
bath and electricity ( reverse connected ), or even sometimes very strong acid.
it is job for experienced professionals, it is not something you should do at home in any case !

3.i am not sure for that, because i use still cz 99 ( not cz 999 ). just find the sights and check
measures, it is simple.

4.rubber grips are best for combat use, self defence etc. ( my opinion ). since i do not know that
even in serbia we have manufacturer of rubber grips for cz 999 ( for cz 99 we have ),
first good shape should be found, and they can not be to soft, or they should be useless.
it can be made easily by workshop that has equipment for molding rubber, but to make just
one piece by your request, it has to be veeeeeeeeeryyyyyy much payed.

regards.

:)

Gilani
05-04-2010, 07:43 PM
Thanks for the information Mr Luger :)

Mohammad
05-04-2010, 08:02 PM
@ luger what about the barrel. Are they chrome plated? What is there service life

Sensei
05-04-2010, 08:07 PM
@ brother Luger very well elaborated indeed thanks for sharing such nice infos with us http://s1.postimage.org/aAhfS.gif (http://www.postimage.org/)

Sensei
05-04-2010, 08:18 PM
as i wrote in here, barrels are best parts in zastava weapons,finish is tho worst. frame is aluminum made, it is bad surface for all kinds of finishes,and phosphate finish is maybe best way, but it is not long lasting

:)

Brother Luger as per your statement above can we say that if we minus the berral alone so there would be nothing so very special in CZ 999? :)

12GAUGE
05-04-2010, 08:25 PM
Brother Luger as per your statement above can we say that if we minus the berral alone so there would be nothing so very special in CZ 999? :)

No! Mr. Luger only said that its barrels are the best part. he did not say anything that depicts or insinuated in any way that the remaining parts of CZ 999 are inferior to other handguns.

Regards.

12GAUGE
05-04-2010, 08:26 PM
@Luger

Thank you very much for a very detailed response.

Regards.

Luger
05-04-2010, 08:50 PM
answer for mr. mohammad:

yes, cold hammered, HARD CHROMED, and made of same steel
that is used for even assault rifles and machine guns.

so, barrels for cz 99 and cz 999 release heat faster than other pistol barrels,
what can improve itīs accuracy during fast target shooting.

this is not my guessing about it, it is precise measured during nineties in usa.
at this time serbia was under international embargo by un and usa, so results
are probably very objective, or if they are not, they are turned against serbian products,
not in their benefit in any case.

life expectancy for barrels of cz 99, long time ago published in serbia by factory,
is about 30.000 rounds, but soon we could see with our own eyes that those
barrels ( at cz 99īs , now i do not mean m 57 in cal. 7,62 x 25 mm ) lives more that
3 ( THREE ! ) times than expected.

somewhere in here i have read that zastava guaranties 200.000, and i thrust in that.
even if the other parts of the pistol can not make it, barrel sure can.

one more thing for you, my friends: i probably should write it on ?accuracy? topic, but let me
do it here.

travel of trigger at cz 99 and cz 999 are made to usa requests ( long time ago ) for military pistol,
and as cz 99 showed up in serbia( beggining of nineties ), and we started to use those pistols,
we noticed one thing that we could easily make better for greater accuracy,
and that is traveling of the trigger after hammer is released by pulling it.
so, most of us find own ways how to stop trigger from traveling unwanted distance.
My solution for this is to mount a little screw on trigger it self, than stops it after
about 0,5 mm since the point in which hammer is released.
it helps to eliminate all mistakes made by wrong pulling of trigger.

so, where the factory did not help us, we did it ourselves,
by making home made trigger stops.

it is something on what every shooter get used very easy, but when you
try after that to use pistol without trigger stop, you realize how good this little
improvement is.

regards.

Luger
05-04-2010, 09:04 PM
to mr. sensei:

we did not understood each other, this phosphate finish does not last as long as i would like,
but it is the same problem with all other manufacturers, not just with zastava.

on my personal pistols i solve this by chrome plating, on aluminum in mate finish.
in that way finish lasts as gun it self.

cz 999 is one of best pistols in the current production in the world, phosphate finish is something
that i have to complain about.

:)

on other topics and in here you can find many informations about qualities of cz 999,
and patriotic reasons are not something that makes me think like that.

only thing that is benefit in making my mind is that serbia is literally full of czīs,
so i could see those weapons working in very, very bad conditions, without proper
maintenance, without any care, and in situations in what many of world famous
manufacturers were jamming, braking, etc. ( it would be rude to give names, so i am sorry,
i can not do this for you ).

so, my stance about cz 99 and especially cz 999 and EZ 9 is that those guns would be
my choice in almost every situation, if i have to choose pistol.

:)

Gilani
05-04-2010, 09:05 PM
........ barrels are best parts in zastava weapons, finish is tho worst. frame is aluminum made, it is bad surface for all kinds of finishes, and phosphate finish is maybe best way, but it is not long lasting as i would like. same problem appears at beretta 92īs, for example, it falls off the frame by time, especially
in rough field conditions, and white aluminum spoils the look of pistol. :)

I think Mr Luger has given a statement on absolute basis and not on comparative basis. :)

On comparative basis, he feels that the frame finish of Beretta 92fs also has the same issue .............


PS; while i was writing these line, Mr Luger typed a very comprehensive reply to the quality of finish and quality of barrels. Thanks Mr Luger

Gilani
05-04-2010, 09:10 PM
so, my stance about cz 99 and especially cz 999 and EZ 9 is that those guns would be
my choice in almost every situation, if i have to choose pistol.:)
Same here Sir. I rate CZ999 as a quality gun and have written many a times on this forum that we are lucky to buy it so cheap in Pakistan. But somehow, its low price in Pakistan seems to be the problem. Had this handgun been costing something like 150k to 200k Rupees in Pakistan, people would have rated it much higher than what it is rated now :)

Luger
05-04-2010, 10:13 PM
thank you sir gilani .

:)

my patriotic post would be next explanation, so our friends from this forum probably will be
in position to understand better what is the clue in zastavaīs story...

at the end of eighties military and police were ( very slowly ) deciding to replace old m57
with new service pistol in 9 mm cal.
suddenly, someone from usa ordered zastava to: ?make best pistol in the world, but in 6 months?,
and to present it in las vegas, on ?shot show? exhibition.
zastava finished project in 4 ( FOUR !!!! ) months.
decision was for this pistol to be called zastava M89, but by mistake in all that hurry
it was written on the slide 99, so it is M99 since than...

:)

than yugoslavia ( country that does not exists any more ) started to export cz 99īs in usa,
where this gun was priced 650 $ ( beretta 92 f 630 $ than ),
and all critics for this pistol at those times in usa were great, except thickness of the grip,
which was a little bit wider for users with small hands.
price of product was calculated to be adequate for manufacturer in long time,
because setting up of production was more than expensive
( besides, the most modern cnc machines were imported for that, and many more things ).
demand on ultimate reliability of this pistol was is 100 % done, with success.

during 1992. zastava developed cz 99 in cal. 40 s&w, and that year also un and usa
put around serbia international embargo and sanctions against regime in serbia
( communist regime at those years ).
this was time when all cz 99 pistols made for export in usa stayed at home,
because before that we can hardly ever got a chance to see cz 99 in serbia,
every piece made was intended to be exported, and it has been exported.

embargo lasted for years, in mean time we had civil war and many more problems
that goes with falling apart of yugoslavia, so in all that bad things we had many chances
to see reliability and qualities of those pistols.

in 2003. zastava presented newer model, called cz999, with thiner grip, and improved ergonomics,
and almost after that cz999 scorpion ( without 2 unnecessary features, better by my opinion ).

...but, because of lost time, zastava has to rebuild positions on international market again,
and to gain thrust and affection of former users, so best way to do it is to sell itīs products
under priced, no matter how good they are.
while it lasts, by zastava with thrust, because now only benefit is yours,
and it will come the time when zastava will be much more expensive even in serbia.

regards, and thank you for reading this.

Gilani
05-04-2010, 11:26 PM
Thanks for a comprehensive explanation Mr Luger :)

12GAUGE
06-04-2010, 01:52 AM
@Luger

Sir! thanks for a very comprehensive explanation. I truly appreciate the time and effort that you have put it in answering our queries. as far as the quality of CZ 999 Scorpion i concerned, all I can say is that the quality that CZ 999 is providing, it should be priced much higher. in its price range, no other pistol is providing such level of quality.

Regards.

p.s. the only thing better than owning "a CZ 999" is owning "two CZ 999s"

Sensei
06-04-2010, 02:52 AM
@Luger brother many thanks for your precious time very nicely explained in fact such wonderful details we did not even saw on Zastawa`s website, :) really impressive :cool:

Aquarius
06-04-2010, 04:53 PM
Very well explained Mr Luger....thanks. :)

BulletHog
06-04-2010, 05:17 PM
i will post for you one interesting customization of cz 99 ( pre cz 999 model ),
it is made to be held with both arms and has compensator.

maybe someone gets some idea of those pictures.
http://s3.postimage.org/JECVA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqJECVA)

http://s1.postimage.org/5z0xJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx5z0xJ)

http://s4.postimage.org/vjtWr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVvjtWr)

Is this thing customized for full auto mode???

Luger
07-04-2010, 01:54 AM
@ bullethog

:) :) :)

it is not, of course, i would never brake rules of this forum.
this is semi - auto , but it can shot really fast if it is held with both arms.

...fast and accurate...

this was the vision of ultimate pistol for home defense.

12GAUGE
07-04-2010, 01:48 PM
@Luger

Sir! which holster would you recommend for the CZ 999 scorpion? I know that a holster designed for Sig p226 will not fit CZ 999 Scorpion. some one suggested that a HK 45 full size looks like its made for CZ 999 Scorpion. I would appreciate your opinion on that.

Regards.

BulletHog
07-04-2010, 03:40 PM
@ bullethog

:) :) :)

it is not, of course, i would never brake rules of this forum.
this is semi - auto , but it can shot really fast if it is held with both arms.

...fast and accurate...

this was the vision of ultimate pistol for home defense.

nice nice ... may be i am getting the point :) lolz

Luger
08-04-2010, 07:00 AM
@ 12 gauge

service holsters used in serbia are made of nylon, by manufacturer ?mile dragic?.

this is the name of the manufacturer and owner him self ( egoist, isnīt he ? )

:D

but those holsters are realy good.

other holster that i could recommend for is hand made of leather,
fast one, thumb break.
that is something that should be done only for you, by your request,
for what you have to find someone that can do that for you in pakistan.
i am absolutely sure that pakistan has places where excellent leather can
be bought, and the rest of the story is in hands of someone who can
make this for you.

this solution is much better than any ready made holster, all holsters that
i have been using were hand made.

i just had always one specific request, for conceal carry i wanted holster
that is made to be pressed against my hip by belt that goes from outer side
of holster, not between holster and my body.
it always makes control on weapon better.

regards.

:)

Alvi
08-05-2010, 09:26 PM
Hi guys .... long time ... Was out of country .. just got back and right now sitting in the field .. was cleaning my CZ today ... and when I assembled it .. the slide once racked gets stuck into the slide lock ... can't seem to figure out the problem .. HELP wanted :) thanx ...

@ 12gauge .. Please call back if u get this .. thanx

Sparticas
11-05-2010, 12:56 PM
@ 12 Gauge, a very elaborate effort indeed, it speaks of your high dedication and perfectionist attitude. Keep on doing the good work and benefiting us, Your opinion matters a lot to us.

@ Luger, Sir its very nice sharing your personal experiences with us,

12GAUGE
01-08-2010, 08:24 PM
AoA Everybody

Ever since I could remember I have been interested in owning firearms with engraving on them. not just any engraving, sorta "personalized type" engraving. you know, the kind of engraving that speaks to the user/operator/owner. in my humble opinion, firearm engraving should not just be a work of art but it should convey certain meanings/feelings/emotions associated with that firearm. so after consulting my "whacked out" fever with Starfish, I immediately started searching for different solutions.

luckily, Denovo87 bhai stumbled upon a laser engraver in Sialkot who engraves on different metals for identification and branding purposes using a sophisticated a laser engraving/marking machine. After doing a test-run, we were convinced this is the machine we were looking for. the engraving was deep (enough for my liking). it was also crisp like a high resolution printer. we were instantly sold after seeing the results of the test run (my chromed Zippo lighter).

Obviously, next step was choosing a theme and that was TOUGH as hell. which theme to follow? what to engraving based on that theme? to make the matters worst, creativity has never been a quality i'm known to possess. again with the help of Denovo87 bhai and Starfish, I finalized a theme and afterwards the actual engraving design was choses based on that theme.

Here is what it looks like now:

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/Engraving1.jpg

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/Engraving2.jpg

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/Engraving3.jpg

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/Engraving5.jpg

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/Engraving4.jpg

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS:

Denovo87 Bhai: Without Denovo bhai, This would have not been possible. he not only arranged the engraving services but also guided me through every step of the way. the design was finalized, prepped and modified for laser engraving process at Denovo bhai's facility. besides engraving, he also hosted lunch and an exceptionally fine (Sialkot exclusive) dinner for me, Naveed and Coolbox. Another dish added to my "most wanted" list. Thank you Sir. I truly appreciate all your efforts in making it all possible for me. no matter how hard I try, I fear that I can never truly express my gratitude.

Starfish: without Starfish's creative guidance and prompt I.T. services, it would not have been possible. he was always there on telephone and on computer to guide me how to go about my silly engraving ideas. Thanks bro. I truly appreciate the brotherly spirit that you have extended towards me.

Zulfiqar and Abdul Majid Sb. These are the engraving guys. they gave "over the top" kind of attention to detail for this one of a kind engraving job. Everything was done with extreme precision and accuracy. I not only took their time and services but also gave them quiet a headache as well.

Regards.

Kamran_uk75
01-08-2010, 08:39 PM
Nice job done, how much it cost you?

Rotorcrafts
01-08-2010, 08:59 PM
ALA TAREEEN....!!!!

WoW. :D

Salahuddin Ayubi
01-08-2010, 09:41 PM
One word................ Super!

And so, the mystery behind "Master Shop" gets solved, by the mystery creator himself :)

If you ever decide on selling your piece, you know who to contact.

Gilani
01-08-2010, 09:54 PM
Great work 12guage and team. :cool: But I can still see few millimeters of vacant space here and there on this CZ. Any plans for effective utilization of that space, gentlemen?? :D

Shariq
01-08-2010, 10:00 PM
It looks awesome !!!

Dr Zakir
01-08-2010, 11:06 PM
whats the chineese all about ?

AK47
01-08-2010, 11:13 PM
@12 Gauge/Denovo bro/Starfish.........EXCELLENT! :P :P :P

I'm amazed, that's called qualitative teamwork, this thing looks quite a "collectible" by now, congrats 12 Gauge bro, along with SA, you just got yourself another bidder! ;)

Btw, excuse my ignorance, but is it Japan or China "dedicated"! :rolleyes: ;) :lol:

Denovo87
01-08-2010, 11:21 PM
Chinese it is and what exactly is says?????? something very FUHUSH I am sure :lol: :lol:

AK47
01-08-2010, 11:29 PM
Chinese it is and what exactly is says?????? something very FUHUSH I am sure :lol: :lol:

@Den...........You mean, anytime our 12Gauge bro is out for a "hook", he just have to show the topside of it! :lol:

A built in "license to hook up", I guess! :lol:

coolbox18
01-08-2010, 11:57 PM
The actual piece is a work of art now. Running your fingers over the troughs and in the depths of the engravings, one can only appreciate the quality in the fine art selected for display. This is some precision stuff, and artistic selection.
@12 Guage sb, congratulations indeed, again.
@ SA sb, AK sb, you are already sold to this, wonder how you would feel when you see the actual performance in person. it is amazing, way beyond what we expect in Pakistan, infact, better than most you would come across globally.
@Denovo sb, :lol: :lol: :lol: , looks like you have guaged this one as precise as the engravings themselves!

AK47
02-08-2010, 12:15 AM
Fun and jokes apart, just took a closer look at the pics, and right Coolbox bro, it's artistic work, indeed. :P

I would just like to ask Denovo bro, our art supervisor, in how much time was the work done, after finalizing design?

Second, how durable is the "color" of the engraving? How would it be done on SS, any pics of the "test rabbit", the Zippo lighter?

Finally, it must have been quite a work of patience for the engraver himself, having to care for not causing any scratches to the gun during work, I mean when placing the gun between his tools, etc, or perhaps he used some sort of foam to protect it during work? :rolleyes:

And, out with the secret, without meaning to be intrusive, what's the monetary side of the experience, if you don't mind? :)

12GAUGE
02-08-2010, 01:25 AM
@All

Thank you gentlemen. I truly appreciate your kind words.

The Latin sentence that we see is "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum" meaning "to make peace, prepare for war".

The "dragon and tiger fighting" you see is an alternative Chinese depiction of YIN YANG. The Dragon is a symbol of good/defender/right way/care and compassion of others/potent and auspicious powers whereas The tiger, an eternal rival of the dragon is taken as an attacker/assaulter/brute strength/lack of respect for others/lacking compassion. if you look at the artwork you'll see that both are fighting (an epic battle) and the dragon has its tail over the tiger which means that the dragon is winning. I figured, a firearm can be used for both purposes (right or wrong) however its use should be governed by the choices made after evaluating the consequences of those choices in terms of morality. a "righteous use" should be the "only" use of a firearm.

The Chinese writing that you see on the top-front of slide also says "YIN YANG". it is used to describe how polar or seemingly contrary forces are interconnected and interdependent in the natural world, and how they give rise to each other in turn. I figured, firearms are a sort of a tricky bunch where every action can have severe consequences. similarly a decision on a course of action is based upon its eventual consequences. its an endless cycle of equal and opposite forces. I guess it would serve to remind me to always TREAD CAREFULLY AND DO NOT LET MY EMOTIONS CLOUD BY JUDGMENT every time I draw my weapon.

Regards.

AK47
02-08-2010, 01:55 AM
@12 gauge bro.........Enough of philosophies now and your background of YinYang, come to the points of your new beeeeeauty, it's one excellent achievement indeed, kindly reply my questions above! :)

Abbas
02-08-2010, 03:29 AM
I was joking with Denovo if 12G had "Maa ke Dua, Jannat ke Hawaa" stamped on his CZ as well :D but it looks awesome actually. Only the Chinese makes it look a little busy otherwise perfect.

Congratulations !

Anthrax
02-08-2010, 03:32 AM
^ Lol! I think that's the only thing remaining on the CZ now, in fact, a better line would be "Fire ker kai paas kerain" :P

But anyway, the engravings look truly amazing and professional! The "Scorpion" is placed perfectly on top. Like the famous "Prepare for war" line as well! Good job 12g! :)

Mani
02-08-2010, 03:50 AM
TAREEEN Bro awesom...
waooo.... :P

12GAUGE
02-08-2010, 03:53 AM
Fun and jokes apart, just took a closer look at the pics, and right Coolbox bro, it's artistic work, indeed. :P

I would just like to ask Denovo bro, our art supervisor, in how much time was the work done, after finalizing design?


if the design and artwork is complete, the engraver doesn't take more than 5 minutes for engraving the whole slide. the laser technology is blazing fast compared to conventional engraving techniques.



Second, how durable is the "color" of the engraving? How would it be done on SS, any pics of the "test rabbit", the Zippo lighter?


its not coloring. laser engraving doesn't not add color to the metal. it basically burns the metal where it meets the surface. each metal decides its own color. the engraver can only chose the right depth according to the desired shade of that color. as a general rule, Laser Engraving on chrome gives white color, on ordinary carbon steel it gives brown to yellow color depending upon engraving depth and on stainless steel it gives light to dark gray, again depending upon depth.

as far as the durability is concerned, the engraving vaporises metal from surface. so naturally, it is subsurface. you'll have to do serious damage to the metal before you can even touch the engraving inside it. I insisted upon shallow engraving. since it is ordinary carbon steel, if I get it engraved too deep, its gonna bring out the inner metal which will rust (unlike SS) and to prevent rusting I would have to resort to blueing/browning job.

if you look at the pictures again. you can see a scorpion engraved on the barrel. check the color. since the base metal is chromed, the engraved scorpion is white.



Finally, it must have been quite a work of patience for the engraver himself, having to care for not causing any scratches to the gun during work, I mean when placing the gun between his tools, etc, or perhaps he used some sort of foam to protect it during work? :rolleyes:


setting up the piece for the engraving job is the name of the game. the rest is pretty simple. the laser is precise and accurate and there is not such thing is scratches or slippages. laser only engraves where it is precisely told to engrave. the size and exact location on the piece is determined by the operator using red points. once everything is satisfactory, the operator simply fires away the laser and it does everything unassisted. no special jigs are required to hold the piece in place. it is basically laid flat on a table under the laser.

Regards.

Apalo
02-08-2010, 11:36 AM
no words for all the posts in this thread, i am amazed and learning the things,
thank you all of you specially who are doing the great work. :)

Starfish
02-08-2010, 01:06 PM
AoA Everybody


Starfish: without Starfish's creative guidance and prompt I.T. services, it would not have been possible. he was always there on telephone and on computer to guide me how to go about my silly engraving ideas. Thanks bro. I truly appreciate the brotherly spirit that you have extended towards me.
Regards.
Any time sir. The pistol looks great! congratulations :P

P.S: Disclaimer: I had nothing to do with the ying yang :P

Ilyas
02-08-2010, 02:00 PM
ALA TAREEEN....!!!!

WoW. :D



TAREEEN Bro awesom...
waooo.... :P

@Rotor... I was confused by your post yesterday and now its Mani bro :D

@12Gauge... Dher Aalla, balkay AALA TAREEN! :) The engraving theme is brilliant and the gun looks awesome.
Someday we might see other pieces with much nicer designs, but it was you who thought of it and tried to find
out the right people n machine, for doing this job. Thanks to Denovo, Starfish and all others who helped you in
getting the job done and enabling you to share this beautiful work n learning experience, with us.

Syed Adeel
02-08-2010, 04:11 PM
Beautiful laser work. Your gun looks great12 Guage brother.

AK47
02-08-2010, 04:13 PM
@12 Gauge.............Thanks bro for the detailed clarification, interesting procedure as a whole indeed, useful even to SCRATCHED items, older weapons, with small scratches, spots, etc, heck just have a "logo" pasted over, smart! :cool:

maverick880
02-08-2010, 04:27 PM
a beautifying alteration to CZ
making look cool

Aquarius
02-08-2010, 06:54 PM
Looks great indeed.. I also want engraving on my Makarov.. where exactly is this laser engraver situated.?? Any Address etc.

ARlover
02-08-2010, 07:07 PM
AoA Everybody

Ever since I could remember I have been interested in owning firearms with engraving on them. not just any engraving, sorta "personalized type" engraving. you know, the kind of engraving that speaks to the user/operator/owner. in my humble opinion, firearm engraving should not just be a work of art but it should convey certain meanings/feelings/emotions associated with that firearm. so after consulting my "whacked out" fever with Starfish, I immediately started searching for different solutions.

luckily, Denovo87 bhai stumbled upon a laser engraver in Sialkot who engraves on different metals for identification and branding purposes using a sophisticated a laser engraving/marking machine. After doing a test-run, we were convinced this is the machine we were looking for. the engraving was deep (enough for my liking). it was also crisp like a high resolution printer. we were instantly sold after seeing the results of the test run (my chromed Zippo lighter).

Obviously, next step was choosing a theme and that was TOUGH as hell. which theme to follow? what to engraving based on that theme? to make the matters worst, creativity has never been a quality i'm known to possess. again with the help of Denovo87 bhai and Starfish, I finalized a theme and afterwards the actual engraving design was choses based on that theme.

Here is what it looks like now:

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/Engraving1.jpg

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/Engraving2.jpg

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/Engraving3.jpg

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/Engraving5.jpg

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/Engraving4.jpg

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS:

Denovo87 Bhai: Without Denovo bhai, This would have not been possible. he not only arranged the engraving services but also guided me through every step of the way. the design was finalized, prepped and modified for laser engraving process at Denovo bhai's facility. besides engraving, he also hosted lunch and an exceptionally fine (Sialkot exclusive) dinner for me, Naveed and Coolbox. Another dish added to my "most wanted" list. Thank you Sir. I truly appreciate all your efforts in making it all possible for me. no matter how hard I try, I fear that I can never truly express my gratitude.

Starfish: without Starfish's creative guidance and prompt I.T. services, it would not have been possible. he was always there on telephone and on computer to guide me how to go about my silly engraving ideas. Thanks bro. I truly appreciate the brotherly spirit that you have extended towards me.

Zulfiqar and Abdul Majid Sb. These are the engraving guys. they gave "over the top" kind of attention to detail for this one of a kind engraving job. Everything was done with extreme precision and accuracy. I not only took their time and services but also gave them quiet a headache as well.

Regards.

12G one word out of world :cool:

Abu Al Hawl
02-08-2010, 09:45 PM
I want to kiss the hands of this craftsman who has done this awe-inspiring job!!!!

12GAUGE
03-08-2010, 12:36 AM
@all

Thank you gentlemen. I'm glad everybody liked what I did to this firearm.

Regards.

12GAUGE
03-08-2010, 12:39 AM
Looks great indeed.. I also want engraving on my Makarov.. where exactly is this laser engraver situated.?? Any Address etc.

Sir, the engraver is in Sialkot. his primary line of business is engraving company logos and stuff on surgical equipment (steel and other metals).

Regards.

Gilani
03-08-2010, 12:48 AM
Aquarius brother, he will soon be engraving two Maks, not just yours ;)

12GAUGE
03-08-2010, 01:37 AM
Aquarius brother, he will soon be engraving two Maks, not just yours ;)

Nice Sir jee. an engraved makarov would be a definite head turner.

Regards.

AK47
03-08-2010, 01:44 AM
@12Gauge bro............Excuse my ignorance, just a bit of info S'il vous plait: Just like with auto number plates, I guess you have to have a "film imprint" out first, with design, font size, etc??? :rolleyes:

If so, let's start collecting the logos of all major brands of guns, logos in all designs, sizes, etc, having a genuine logo imprint engraved on the gun, combined with a bit of artistic work and design, just like with your "scorpions", would make it look further like some sorta "SE" edition, looking even more "original" and genuine, what say? :rolleyes:

Omer571
03-08-2010, 02:06 AM
@12 guage : Amazing is an understatement. DAS IST UBER KOOL.

I should be heading to SIALKOT ASAP

AK47
03-08-2010, 02:14 AM
@12 guage : Amazing is an understatement. DAS IST UBER KOOL.

I should be heading to SIALKOT ASAP

Heil! :lol:

Absolutely right bro, Sialkot is getting a " Gun Fashion Hub" too, what an "original" we have in Den over there! :)

Omer571
03-08-2010, 02:37 AM
Sure Bro !!

How about we all meet there and TEASE lala g a bit !!!

AK47
03-08-2010, 03:29 AM
Sure bro, but let the heat come down first, preferably after Eid, before Eid, with you around is an "impossibility" ;) :lol:

Apalo
03-08-2010, 09:44 AM
Sure bro, but let the heat come down first, preferably after Eid, before Eid, with you around is an "impossibility" ;) :lol:

weather is pleasant now a days and hopefully Omer bro will also show some mercy too :D
and also talk to Den lala before leaving as he may have some other planes for this sawan :/

Faheem
03-08-2010, 10:28 AM
12 gauge bro bahi Mashallah looks of handgun are 100% changed and looking extreamily beautyful very nice work. Simply awesome ..........

12GAUGE
03-08-2010, 07:15 PM
i'm glad Sialkot is now the new "go-to" destination for firearms engraving.

Regards.

Aquarius
04-08-2010, 05:57 AM
Looks great indeed.. I also want engraving on my Makarov.. where exactly is this laser engraver situated.?? Any Address etc.

Sir, the engraver is in Sialkot. his primary line of business is engraving company logos and stuff on surgical equipment (steel and other metals).

Regards.

Huumm.. This means a trip to Sialkot is due after Ramadan.. will also love to meet Denovo Sir as well for the first time Inshallah.... :)

Apalo
04-08-2010, 06:17 AM
i'm glad Sialkot is now the new "go-to" destination for firearms engraving.

Regards.
I also have a TT waiting for some "Rang Rogan " :D
Aquarius bro do let me know, we will go to gather inshAllah.

AK47
04-08-2010, 11:19 AM
i'm glad Sialkot is now the new "go-to" destination for firearms engraving.

Regards.
I also have a TT waiting for some "Rang Rogan " :D
Aquarius bro do let me know, we will go to gather inshAllah.

Finalize the design first bros, talked to 12 Gauge today, selection of correct/appropriate "design" is the major part of the work, took 12 Gauge/Den a full months work, selecting from some 35 options, final laser burning was a matter of few seconds only! :o :)

Mohammad
04-08-2010, 12:19 PM
wooooooow................... Great job done........12 gauge you always come up with some cool stuff....... You are absent for weeks on the forum and then suddenly come back to show us something that appeals the eye..... excellent work done

noumanzaidi
04-08-2010, 01:03 PM
@12guage

good work brother it looks really nice

thepatriot
15-08-2010, 08:28 PM
great work

SPAYPANTHER
04-10-2010, 11:56 PM
I was searching for a CZ999 magazine from a long time but didn’t found any, so at last I decide to take a risk on baretta magazine.
I bought a new bareta magazine in 3k and drop it at PANTON machine workshop with my cz999 original magazine for make a same hole in it for magazine lock, he charge 200 and make a hole in baretta magazine which is similar to CZ999 magazine.

You can see your self what he did!

SPAYPANTHER
04-10-2010, 11:57 PM
baretta magazine in center, and cz999 magazine left and right

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/3489/30092010102.jpg

SPAYPANTHER
04-10-2010, 11:59 PM
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/7491/30092010104.jpg

SPAYPANTHER
05-10-2010, 12:02 AM
I didn’t do any other alteration in it like 12gauge but it is working fine and smoothly like original magazine…

Center one is baretta mag and left right are cz999 magazines

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/3427/30092010103z.jpg

SPAYPANTHER
05-10-2010, 03:41 PM
Waiting for 12gauge and other senior members to comment on my work

12GAUGE
05-10-2010, 08:59 PM
@SPAYPANTHER

good work bro, the machinist really did a good job. I am impressed. about the modifying lips, I know its not necessary but since lips of the Zastava supplied mags are modified, I figured I should also go ahead and do it as well.

Regards.

12GAUGE
20-12-2010, 12:28 PM
AoA Everybody

When Skeeter60 Sb. was talking about my trigger job on CZ 999 Scorpion, I remember him saying that adding a trigger stop would make it perfect. well, Just finished Installing a "Do-It-Yourself" trigger stop on the gun. I thought should share it with esteemed members.

Here are the pictures:

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/Dsc00441.jpg

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/12gauge-pakguns/DSC00439.jpg


I believe this solution can also be employed to other handguns where a trigger experiences over travel. adding a trigger stop resolves that problem, potentially increasing accuracy through controlled trigger manipulation. it also increases (at least in theory) speed for the follow-up shots as well.

Regards.

Rotorcrafts
20-12-2010, 12:46 PM
Great addition, very easy to apply too. Seems like an O-ring with some silicon adhesive and as O-rings are available in a plethora of sizes and thicknesses so i guess this can be applied to all possible handguns with similar triggers.

12GAUGE
20-12-2010, 12:50 PM
Great addition, very easy to apply too. Seems like an O-ring with some silicon adhesive and as O-rings are available in a plethora of sizes and thicknesses so i guess this can be applied to all possible handguns with similar triggers.

Right on! buddy. This rubber O-ring was a last minute idea. I was actually considering plastic or may be brass. I just stumbled upon this O-ring while arranging tools.

Regards.

Regards.

Arslan_tareen
20-12-2010, 12:52 PM
Great work Hassan Bahi simple yet innovative now we will await the practical result and see if you feel any difference specially if it makes any kind of improvement or any changes in your awesome rapid fire results .

Naveed_pk
20-12-2010, 01:09 PM
Wow !! Excellent Job 12Guage bro , Btw i would like to know how its work mean the hole you did in the trigger whats its function .. Regards

Topak
20-12-2010, 01:12 PM
good customization 12Gauge ChaCha G.
definitely it will increase your accuracy.

Denovo87
20-12-2010, 01:24 PM
Great work 12gauge bro; I must say simple, practical and economical. Looking forward to see something same sort of JAGGAR to reduce/minimize the pre travel ;)

12GAUGE
20-12-2010, 01:31 PM
@All

Thanks guys.

@Naveed_pk

Bro, I did not drill a hole in the trigger. its actually a rubber O-ring glued to the back of the trigger guard using super glue (ELFI). The objective is to stop the trigger where it breaks and eliminate any excess traveling beyond the point of break. it functions similar to a door stop.

@Topak Bhai

Thank you sir jee but i am afraid I still might ring your doorbell someday for the idea that you've given to me.

@Denovo87 Bhai

I've thought about the pre-travel thingy but as per Moeen Bhai's recommendation, I do not need to do anything since its a Combat/SD gun therefore mandates a little (2-3mm) pre-travel to ensure safety.

Regards.

Naveed_pk
20-12-2010, 01:44 PM
Thanks 12 guage bro for the clarification :)

Starfish
20-12-2010, 02:03 PM
very interesting DIY. rubber O ring for the win! :)

AK47
20-12-2010, 02:10 PM
@12G bro.......Well, what can I say else than excellently innovative!

Let's hear about your target "rape", next time you're around in the field again, with this newly added "door stopper", great work, indeed! Wonder when you're gonna turn it into a .357 Sig! :lol:

Just to remind the guyz of your last time target "assassination", of past weekend:

http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n497/wahstar1/PG%20upload/Shooting021Small.jpg

I trust with this latest customization, there'll be a target "gang rape" by all your bullets next time around the "Bichoo" is in action again! Regards. :)

Mani
20-12-2010, 04:05 PM
Great work 12gauge bro. :D

Dr Zakir
20-12-2010, 11:30 PM
I have told u r handgun man and not a shot gun guy.

AK47
20-12-2010, 11:45 PM
I have told u r handgun man and not a shot gun guy.

+1 Dr. Sb!

And you know, he's doing his best to turn me into a shotgunner, lols!

Moeen
21-12-2010, 09:34 AM
Salam All,
Very nicely done. Very nice.

coolbox18
21-12-2010, 11:21 AM
Very well done 12Gauge bro.
I believe if you had access to proper tools and metals, you would have come up with a few indigenous hand cannons of your own by now.

BaderJanjua
21-12-2010, 07:59 PM
Interesting makeup for the CZ999, hope the manufacturers took note of this and would come up with this modification in their new models

nauman_12345
02-10-2012, 12:20 PM
Kindly let me know that kydex holster of SigP226 is also suitable for CZ999 scorpion?

12GAUGE
02-10-2012, 09:34 PM
Kindly let me know that kydex holster of SigP226 is also suitable for CZ999 scorpion?

Bro, I am afraid that a Kydex holster for a Sig P226 would be suitable a CZ999 Scorpion due to slight differences in both handguns.

Regards.

pisces007
13-10-2013, 01:12 AM
bro i want ez9 mag what shuld be the price of per/ mag?
and long mag 30+ if avalible? any idea brothers..........

Fudgepacker
13-10-2013, 10:01 AM
S... (we don't make a habit of dropping our mags to the ground here in Pak.)...
Does that mean that speed reloading is not a practiced skill? Falling to the ground should be considered regular use of a magazine... always train the same way you would fight, and that means treating the mag as disposable, unless during a tactical reload. Believe it or not, there was a documented incident where an LEO got injured while picking up an ejected magazine. When interviewed, he said it was like a natural reaction because that's what he always did during practice.

Muhammad m
14-10-2013, 02:11 AM
Amazing...
pics are not viewable... Please update when possible

mslefaye
13-03-2014, 01:57 PM
Anyone got a backup of the images presented here? They seem to be gone and I would really like to save the thread for my own imaginings of my matched pair.