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Mitho
24-01-2010, 07:58 PM
is there any difference between np22 and hp77.
or its just the same as cf98 and qsz92?

KageFox
24-01-2010, 08:53 PM
Have been hearing about this one for a while, am definitely curious...

Faisji
24-01-2010, 09:38 PM
Pics would be nice

Mitho
24-01-2010, 10:34 PM
our member sensi saw this at modh ali and sons .he quoted for 32k.think its a veryy good price for a sig clone.

Sensei
24-01-2010, 11:20 PM
@Mitho brother that is not by Norinco but yes that is surely made in china 100% same as NP 22 this pistol is newly made by another company could not remember the name of that anyway
almost every dealer has that gun and they really wanted us to
consider it over cf 98,the gun was no doubt a nice one in such
a cheap price and I believe it could be purchased in 30K :)

Faheem
27-01-2010, 09:42 AM
Definetily HP 77 is a new pistol of CHINA we dont have enough reviews about the mentioned pistol but as we discussed with different dealers all are shure about the reliability of HP 77....... but on the other hand we must need the expert opinions of our expert members..........

Mitho
27-01-2010, 11:42 AM
cant even find it on the net.

12GAUGE
27-01-2010, 01:54 PM
AoA Everybody.

kindly accept my apologies for raining on everybody's parade here but come on! guyz we are talking about a cheap/inexpensive clone that is made to imitate the looks of an expensive original design handgun.

now with that in mind, i'm sure everybody must now understand that this cheap/inexpensive clone is not designed to mimic the performance benchmarks but designed to mimic the looks, that it. nothing more.

it should not be compared to an original design CF98. i've always said it and will say this again, NP22, NP34 are not at all at par with CF98. CF98 though inexpensive, is a combat pistol which have been adopted by an army (hint: chinese handgun) and it has been exported and has been adopted by other armies as well.

what does that tell ya? CF98 is designed for performance not looks. if these HP77, NP34, NP22 were that good, why would china invest so much money and resources in designing a new handgun for themselves. i'm sure any rational person would agree that it is alot easier to just copy a good design and adopt.

Economics also play a very important role here. you'll have to follow me for a while here. you see, when u copy and clone a good design to very letter and spirit (to the minutest of details and quality wise). the price difference diminishes. so its pointless to clone a good handgun if it will eventually cost you the same. sure some difference in price will remain, depending on the difference in labor and raw material costs. but that difference is negligible. therefore, the only way to make a clone and make money in the process is to sacrifice somewhere. that sacrifice could be in from of manufacturing quality/performance or looks. now think gentlemen, if a clone is designed while sacrificing on the looks, it would definitely be "adoption worthy" cause its a good design to begin with and it performs good too. Then why the Chinese didn't adopt the HP77, NP22, NP34? WHY NO OTHER ARMY HAS EXPRESSED INTEREST IN THEM TOO?

Regards.

Gilani
27-01-2010, 04:43 PM
Well explained, 12guage Sir :)

Naveed_pk
27-01-2010, 05:06 PM
Very well explained @12guage sir :)

Glocky
27-01-2010, 05:29 PM
@12gauge, buddy while your arguments make sense, they do not always hold true. Take Taurus's 24/7 and PT92 as prime examples. One is a completely new and original design yet not adopted by a single LEO or Army, on the other hand the Beretta copy still prevails. The CF98 is a great gun for the buck no doubt, but i have used both and the NP34/NP22 feel slightly better in terms of finnish and durability. YMMV

regards

Ka_Khan
27-01-2010, 05:52 PM
This is a new gun in Peshawar market also.Demand is 31000.
Didnt liked the finish,little crude.If any of the member used it,share your experience.

Usama
27-01-2010, 05:53 PM
I am with GlockY.. ;)

KageFox
27-01-2010, 05:54 PM
+1 Glocky

Another example of one of the more copied guns is the 1911...

Usama
27-01-2010, 06:03 PM
I have 2 more examples the famous TT by russians and CZ 75,both of them are widely copied ..!!

Gilani
27-01-2010, 06:49 PM
This is a new gun in Peshawar market also.Demand is 31000.
Didnt liked the finish,little crude.If any of the member used it,share your experience.
I have fired over 200 rounds from HP 77B and NP-22. Both are Sig P226 clones. HP 77B has all steel body and is around 300 grams heavier than Norinco NP-22 which has an alloy frame. NP-22 has a far better finish than HP 77B. In accuracy and carriage, CF98 is better than both HP 77B and NP-22, as per my experience.
regards

Mitho
27-01-2010, 08:19 PM
@gilani
sir how would u compare np22 and hp77.i have a cf98 now i am thinkin of buying a sig clone.had my eyes on zastava cz999 but it has gone out my reach.only options i have are these chinese clones.would u say its a relaiable pistol?

AK47
27-01-2010, 08:50 PM
I don't quite intend to get into any discussion as such, coz I've never had any of these Chinese guns, but let me tell you frankly of MY IMPRESSION, when I first held the HP 77 in my hands some 12 months ago. Dealer in Peshawar at that time demanded a full 48K for it, but then, in those days, CF-98 was also priced higher than today, to be exact, at 42-45K.

Guyz, it felt so nice and solid in my hands that for an instantaneous moment, I even thought of taking it instead of the Cougar, which, in those days, stood between 60-65K.

I must say, I still can't forget the feeling of this gun in my hands, heck it was like controlling a tank, easily, comfortably! And my impression was, this thing is gonna last and it's gonna last long!

Ka-Khan complains above on finishing, I must say, I didn't find anything wrong on the one that I was presented.

In order to say anything about this gun, you gotta go down the street and try it for yourself! I'm sure, if you are determined to keep a Chinese, you won't just let it go, unless better "conceal-ability" drives you towards the CF-98. Try it, just hold it in your hands, you'll remember my words.

12GAUGE
27-01-2010, 09:02 PM
@Glocky
@KageFox

you guyz took my argument in a wrong sense. I never said that a clone cannot be as good as an original. sure its no rocket science and by committing little more resources a clone can be made equally good as an original. infact it can be made better than an original. but what will that do to the price difference between a clone and an original. it will diminish the price difference to a point where its economically infeasible to produce and sell a clone. therefore for profit margins to be healthy, some sacrifices have to be made either in the looks department or the performance department. again, some price differences do remain due to the difference in labor and capital costs between the countries. but then again, its usually not that much. kindly compare the price of italian baretta and taurus and u'll know what i'm talking about. taurus ain't 1/10 the price of a baretta.

giving the example of 24/7 is totally irrelevant cause its an original idea (not to mentioned plagued by issues). Taurus's 92 indeed is a clone of baretta and now doubt a good one but have you seen the price difference? it not much by any angle. one more thing, somebody said that Taurus's 92 clones are built using baretta machinery. that probably explains their quality and reliability. but we are not talking about clones built on machinery that makes original stuff too. we are talking clones made half way around the world and by machinery of unknown origins.

now dont tell me that HP77, NP22 and NP34 are all made using SIG machinery and by SIG trained personnel ;)

Regards.

zeeshan.pk
27-01-2010, 10:13 PM
brother i have purchased Cz999 scorpion really great gun from para lhr,I fired 200 rounds without any problem Chinese bullets:

Gilani
27-01-2010, 10:15 PM
@gilani
sir how would u compare np22 and hp77.i have a cf98 now i am thinkin of buying a sig clone.had my eyes on zastava cz999 but it has gone out my reach.only options i have are these chinese clones.would u say its a relaiable pistol?
Sir, I would recommend NP22. Both are strongly built pistols but NP-22 is comparatively light and has better finish.
regards

Gilani
27-01-2010, 10:20 PM
brother i have purchased Cz999 scorpion really great gun from para lhr,I fired 200 rounds without any problem Chinese bullets:
Zeeshan sahib, congrats. Its a very nice gun indeed. :) How much you paid for it ?

AK47
27-01-2010, 10:34 PM
@Gilani Sir...... The difference in weight between these two is only due to difference between alloy/steel, NP-22 being the alloy version, hence lighter. I feel the finishing issue is also due to this, alloy being smoother and thus better "finish-able".

I would still take the HP 77, yet it's a question of personal choice.

Gilani
27-01-2010, 10:44 PM
@Gilani Sir...... The difference in weight between these two is only due to difference between alloy/steel, NP-22 being the alloy version, hence lighter. I feel the finishing issue is also due to this, alloy being smoother and thus better "finish-able".

I would still take the HP 77, yet it's a question of personal choice.

Ak47 Sir, I agree. Its a matter of personal choice and liking otherwise both HP 77B and NP-22 are very good and reliable guns in this price range. :)

zeeshan.pk
27-01-2010, 10:46 PM
br i got this Cz999 Scorpion in 44k from lhr it really enjoyed me a lot at range,it is really like a tank,sights r so good, metal is realiable

Gilani
27-01-2010, 11:29 PM
Thanks Zeeshan sahib, happy shooting with your scorpion :)

Glocky
27-01-2010, 11:46 PM
@Glocky
@KageFox

you guyz took my argument in a wrong sense. I never said that a clone cannot be as good as an original. sure its no rocket science and by committing little more resources a clone can be made equally good as an original. infact it can be made better than an original. but what will that do to the price difference between a clone and an original. it will diminish the price difference to a point where its economically infeasible to produce and sell a clone. therefore for profit margins to be healthy, some sacrifices have to be made either in the looks department or the performance department. again, some price differences do remain due to the difference in labor and capital costs between the countries. but then again, its usually not that much. kindly compare the price of italian baretta and taurus and u'll know what i'm talking about. taurus ain't 1/10 the price of a baretta.

giving the example of 24/7 is totally irrelevant cause its an original idea (not to mentioned plagued by issues). Taurus's 92 indeed is a clone of baretta and now doubt a good one but have you seen the price difference? it not much by any angle. one more thing, somebody said that Taurus's 92 clones are built using baretta machinery. that probably explains their quality and reliability. but we are not talking about clones built on machinery that makes original stuff too. we are talking clones made half way around the world and by machinery of unknown origins.

now dont tell me that HP77, NP22 and NP34 are all made using SIG machinery and by SIG trained personnel ;)

Regards.


:) @12gauge, and i think we are still on different frequencies. AFAIK the chinese handguns are all made on the same machinery with the same labour so for me the quality of a CF98 is no better than the Sig copies just based on being an original design. I am interested in the end product being superior and as i said, the NP34/22 do seem better vis-a-vis CF98 in terms of form, fit and durability. We can agree to disagree :)

AK47
27-01-2010, 11:59 PM
:) @12gauge, and i think we are still on different frequencies. AFAIK the chinese handguns are all made on the same machinery with the same labour so for me the quality of a CF98 is no better than the Sig copies just based on being an original design. I am interested in the end product being superior and as i said, the NP34/22 do seem better vis-a-vis CF98 in terms of form, fit and durability. We can agree to disagree :)

+1 Glocky bro! Now, to me you're both dear bros, therefore I like Glocky's last notion above. :)

Heck, 12 Gauge, remember you told me on some other thread that the CF-98 ain't got no class whatsoever, with quite some details of wear n' tear issues! Understand now, why you feel above guns are "garbage" then! :lol: :lol:

Glocky
28-01-2010, 12:16 AM
Thank you brother AK47, i have deep respect for both you and 12gauge. i do not doubt his expertise one bit, sadly he is right when it comes to quality i.e. the chinese still have some time to go before they come up to par on the quality scale.

12GAUGE
28-01-2010, 12:25 AM
:) @12gauge, and i think we are still on different frequencies. AFAIK the chinese handguns are all made on the same machinery with the same labour so for me the quality of a CF98 is no better than the Sig copies just based on being an original design. I am interested in the end product being superior and as i said, the NP34/22 do seem better vis-a-vis CF98 in terms of form, fit and durability. We can agree to disagree :)

Ok bro, I understand ur point of view regarding a clone being better than an original design interms of form and fit but durability is a totally different matter altogether. kindly remove my following reservations regarding the durability of a clone.

1. since same machinery/manpower is used and since u say it is better design then how come Chinese didnt adopt this well proven design. instead opted to spend (unnecessary) amounts of money in designing a new handgun.

2. since quality/built wise NP22/34 and HP77 are better than CF98 how come they didn't adopt it for their army?

3. since NP22/34 and HP77 are much better weapons then how come none of the other countries that adopted CF98 didn't even consider them.

4. are u suggesting that a fake levis (not outsourced) and an original levis are of the same quality? lets put it this way, are u comparing a 2000 rupee levis to a 500 rupee levis and expecting same quality? i'm sure all of us would agree to this statement: "hmm.... I would rather buy a 500 rupee local brand denim (original idea) then buy a 500 rupee fake foreign brand denim (clone)".

@AK47

Sir, CF98 is my SHTF firearm. It sees the most use and I still believe that is the best handgun out there in its price range. and on more than one occasion, i've said that CF98 offers some interesting/new age design features but at the same time I firmly believe that it has no class. of-course when I say class, at that particular point in time I'm actually comparing it to other handguns without considering the price. then again, you cannot expect low price and class at the same time from a single handgun or can you?

Regards.

AK47
28-01-2010, 08:12 AM
@12 gauge........Understood bro! You actually like to sc**w and "kick" it's a**@, simultaneously! :lol: :lol:.

No problem, it just kind of reminds me about a trend from back in Europe you know, where some of the more "perverted" class of people used to go Bangkok and actually kind of "buy" cheap Thai "goodies", bring them back to Europe, and from that moment on, course I'm quite sure you can guess the kind of "treatment" given to those poor "soulies"! :lol: In six months or so, they would kick their "a**", and make another fly to Thai! :lol:

I don't find above funny, not at all, it's just that the comparison with your "policy" on the CF-98, gives a funnier flavor to it! :lol:

And now don't tell me, I didn't get your "emotions" for the CF-98 quite right! ;)


@Glocky.........Try to understand bro, the CF-98 is more "petite" than the other two, also more "disposable" as such! ;). Den, we're still talking "metal" only, buddy! :lol:

Glocky
28-01-2010, 07:24 PM
:) I cannot but help saying "Look before you leap", brother 12gauge if you read my posts again i never once suggested that the Sig clones are a better design than the CF98. I only stated that in terms of finishing, fit and durability the Np22/34 seem better than CF98.

As i stated in my first post (11), if the only criteria for judging that the CF98 is a better weapon than the NP22/34 series is being selected for the national army then i disagree. Period. If you want to compare apples with apples then stick with them, do not confuse them with oranges. We are comparing chinese handguns all made/exported by a single entity which is Norinco, what does that have to do with local (original) and foreign (fake) jeans ????

Usama
28-01-2010, 08:39 PM
+1 to Glocky :D

12GAUGE
28-01-2010, 11:17 PM
I only stated that in terms of finishing, fit and durability the Np22/34 seem better than CF98.

like I said earlier, I can understand that a SIG clone looks better in terms of fit and finish. but how did you come to a conclusion that its better in terms of durability? bro! this is a classic case of comparing apples with oranges. one is a clone (not adopted by anyone) whereas the other is a military issued sidearm.



As i stated in my first post (11), if the only criteria for judging that the CF98 is a better weapon
than the NP22/34 series is being selected for the national army then i disagree. Period.

its a free world (atleast in theory) and you have every right to disagree. however I must insist on saying that some of the most famous of weapons have been associated with national armies (or famous law enforcing agencies) around the world.

if you look at the history. some of the famous firearms today got their fame when adopted by armies/lea around the world. glock, sig, baretta, HK almost all of them made their name after selection by some kinda army or LEA. since we are talking about a SIG clone, lets talk a little about it. nobody even knew about the merits of a SIG firearm before its adoption by Navy Seals. this should be enough to make a point that mass adoption (by some kinda armed force) does matter.



We are comparing chinese handguns all made/exported by a single entity which is Norinco,

bro, yes you are right here we are comparing two handguns probably manufactured/exported by a single entity but at the same time we are also interested in knowing which one is better. not in terms of design, actually in terms of whole package which includes design, reliability and durability.

I'm bent on the idea that CF98 is adopted by an army, its exported and adopted by other armies for some reason. whereas this NP22/34 clone is just a clone made to replicate the looks/feel of a real SIG. its primary objective is not to give the user a reliable combat handgun but to give the user the satisfaction of owning a handgun that looks like a SIG. think for a second, why would China commit so many resources in a producing a lesser durable (your statement) CF98 whereas it can always produce more durable (again ur statement) NP2/34 by diverting the same resources. later on adopt the more durable clone instead of CF98.

all this does not add up. but if you think like this then it certainly adds up. NP22/34 are mere clones produced to replicate the looks of a real SIG, not performance or durability. therefore for a combat handgun to be adopted by an army/military/LEA, durability is a must. CF98 is built by keeping durability in mind so its only natural that they adopted CF98.

Bottom Line:

my whole argument is that NP22/34 should not be compared to an original design CF98. after owning an original design CF98 and a Chinese manufactured SIG clone (for a very short period I took it back to shop as soon as I came back to my senses, later I opted to buy the CZ999 scorpion) i'm a firm believer now and will never advise anyone to compare the two.

Regards.

Anthrax
28-01-2010, 11:33 PM
+1, 12Gauge!

Glocky
28-01-2010, 11:46 PM
ok now atleast we are on the same page. True, adoption by armed forces do give credibility to a weapon's performance. But again its not always just design or durability. If you remember the US trails of the 70s for adoption of a new service pistol only went to Beretta due to a lower price and agreeing to the condition of manufacturing them in the US otherwise Sig was the preferred one, does that mean Beretta is a better design, i don't know and probably no one can answer that question. Though both were original designs, the process of adopting one over the other came down to costs. The Sigs were later adopted by the Elite forces.

The Chinese sidearm before the CF98 were the Makarov and the Type-51 & variants, that does not mean anything right ? probably because they were clones as well. :)

A.Abbas
29-01-2010, 12:14 AM
ok now atleast we are on the same page. True, adoption by armed forces do give credibility to a weapon's performance. But again its not always just design or durability. If you remember the US trails of the 70s for adoption of a new service pistol only went to Beretta due to a lower price and agreeing to the condition of manufacturing them in the US otherwise Sig was the preferred one, does that mean Beretta is a better design, i don't know and probably no one can answer that question. Though both were original designs, the process of adopting one over the other came down to costs. The Sigs were later adopted by the Elite forces.

The Chinese sidearm before the CF98 were the Makarov and the Type-51 & variants, that does not mean anything right ? probably because they were clones as well. :)

I am reading this thread from start, don't want to interfere as I know nothing about hp77b practically, but on the question of US adopting Beretta, I agree and disagree, reasons were cost and politics as well as sig was better design and in case of Chinese none is the reason, they are manufacturing both guns in state own factories and CF98 gone through 5 year trails to be adopted finally.
In my opinion bottom line is, as AK said, it is a matter of personal choice and feel of individuals regarding any particular gun.

12GAUGE
29-01-2010, 11:34 AM
ok now atleast we are on the same page. True, adoption by armed forces do give credibility to a weapon's performance. But again its not always just design or durability. If you remember the US trails of the 70s for adoption of a new service pistol only went to Beretta due to a lower price and agreeing to the condition of manufacturing them in the US otherwise Sig was the preferred one, does that mean Beretta is a better design, i don't know and probably no one can answer that question. Though both were original designs, the process of adopting one over the other came down to costs. The Sigs were later adopted by the Elite forces.



thank you for reiterating/reinforcing my whole argument. see? even though SIG is a better design it became known/famous when Navy Seals adopted them. similarly, Baretta which is inferior (your statement, I have no experience of the real deal) to SIG, it also became alot famous over SIG when the US army adopted it. so adoption by an army does give some credibility to the design and built (durability, reliability, finish, quality) of a firearm. Even glock got their fame after they got adopted by Law enforcing agencies in the U.S. before that it was regarded as a cheap plastic handgun.

you gave the example of Taurus92 and Chinese made TT and Maks. well, back in those days, Russia used to give their machinery and expertise to anyone who used to think that Capitalism is bad. the Chinese TT and MAKs were all built using Russian exported machinery and expertise. Just like Taurus which are actually built on Baretta machinery. therefore taking them as an example is irrelevant. but even then i'm sure if u pick up a chinese TT and a Russian TT you can easily tell that Russian TT is far better built. I have one and can testify to their superior quality over the Chinese. it's actually my uncle's to be precise. he has a chinese TT too but older model with all markings in chinese language. and guess what even its quality seems alot superior to the currently available TT in the market. similarly, i've heard it from a few friends that Russian AK is better built than a Chinese. you see no matter what you do, an original remains an original. that is my whole argument.

and on the basis of this argument, I think its unfair to compare an original idea CF98 to a clone HP77/NP34/22.

Regards.

Glocky
29-01-2010, 12:06 PM
Mate since you have no clue as to why or how the above mentioned weapons came into usage its pointless to argue with you. I never said that the Beretta is an inferior design, so please stop inferring different statements to me ?

The Glock was actually designed to participate in the Austrian army trails and was adopted by them even before it hit US shores, and it is still regarded as a cheap plastic gun, but it works every-time.

Please let me repeat again for clarity, just because the CF98 were chosen by the chinese as their army's sidearm does not make them any superior to other handguns produced by them on the same plants by the same entity. There were probably other more reasons for doing so, who knows ?

Applying this argument solely as basis for determining the CF98 is any better than the NP22/34 rings hollow to me.

AK47
29-01-2010, 12:15 PM
Both of you walking in "forked" directions. Thanks for enlightenment from both perspectives, quite interesting overall!

Now, let's get back to the HP 77, how's it doing?

Gilani
29-01-2010, 01:47 PM
Quite an interesting discussion, enjoyed reading complete post. :)

As per my information, CF98 has been specifically developed as an official sidearm of Chinese Armed Forces. It was not adopted by Chinese Army after it was developed by Cheng Feng rather Cheng Feng developed it for Chinese Army. You see, there is a difference. This means users requirements (Chinese Army's requirements) were fully incorporated or kept in mind by Cheng Feng while developing CF98. Unlike many Western countries where arms manufacturers are independent in developing weapons and after having developed a weapon, they present it to various armies / LEAs for trials as and when they are required, weapon manufacturing in China is still a state owned business.

The whole argument is that a weapon which has been specifically designed keeping in mind the requirements of the biggest army of the world (size wise) has to have something special about it with regards to reliability, accuracy, ruggedness and affordability (low price). These generally are the attributes of a military handgun. Probably thats why, Chinese have reduced the cost effect by compromising on the finish etc which is probably a secondary consideration when it comes to selecting weapons for military use and not apparently compromised on the first three attributes.

NP22 / HP 77B / NP34 have been developed (or copied) keeping in mind the user requirements of civilian market, hence, better finish also gets priority. I am by no means trying to conclude that these are not reliable guns and only have a better finish. They may in certain cases prove far better than CF98. One has to, however, conduct extensive / prolonged trials to prove this.

Historically speaking, however, most famous / legendary weapons that we know became famous and legendary only after they were extensively used by armies / law enforcement agencies. Isn't it :)

regards

Glocky
29-01-2010, 02:46 PM
Quite an interesting discussion, enjoyed reading complete post. :)

As per my information, CF98 has been specifically developed as an official sidearm of Chinese Armed Forces. It was not adopted by Chinese Army after it was developed by Cheng Feng rather Cheng Feng developed it for Chinese Army. You see, there is a difference. This means users requirements (Chinese Army's requirements) were fully incorporated or kept in mind by Cheng Feng while developing CF98. Unlike many Western countries where arms manufacturers are independent in developing weapons and after having developed a weapon, they present it to various armies / LEAs for trials as and when they are required, weapon manufacturing in China is still a state owned business.

The whole argument is that a weapon which has been specifically designed keeping in mind the requirements of the biggest army of the world (size wise) has to have something special about it with regards to reliability, accuracy, ruggedness and affordability (low price). These generally are the attributes of a military handgun. Probably thats why, Chinese have reduced the cost effect by compromising on the finish etc which is probably a secondary consideration when it comes to selecting weapons for military use and not apparently compromised on the first three attributes.

NP22 / HP 77B / NP34 have been developed (or copied) keeping in mind the user requirements of civilian market, hence, better finish also gets priority. I am by no means trying to conclude that these are not reliable guns and only have a better finish. They may in certain cases prove far better than CF98. One has to, however, conduct extensive / prolonged trials to prove this.

Historically speaking, however, most famous / legendary weapons that we know became famous and legendary only after they were extensively used by armies / law enforcement agencies. Isn't it :)

regards

Well said sir. I agree.

12GAUGE
29-01-2010, 03:41 PM
As per my information, CF98 has been specifically developed as an official sidearm of Chinese Armed Forces.

This should be enough in my books. a combat handgun is what a combat handgun does. it gets adopted by a combat oriented institution/organization. glock, SIG, baretta, HK all of these have walked these lines before so why should CF98 be any different. whereas nobody adopted HP77/NP34/22.



Chinese have reduced the cost effect by compromising on the finish etc which is probably a secondary consideration when it comes to selecting weapons for military use and not apparently compromised on the first three attributes.

Hurray! bro, when equally priced, I would prefer the handgun which has finish as its secondary preference and would definitely stay away from the one which has reliability/durability as its secondary preference list.



NP22 / HP 77B / NP34 have been developed (or copied) keeping in mind the user requirements of civilian market, hence, better finish also gets priority.

That is what i'm saying all along. these clones are manufacture red to give users the so called satisfaction of owning something that looks like a SIG. the common illusion is that since it looks like a SIG, it'll probably work like one too. I got me a Chinese SIG clone and returned it back as soon as I came back to my senses. later on bought me a CZ999 Scorpion.



One has to, however, conduct extensive / prolonged trials to prove this.

Exactly!, you'll find that CF98's manual clearly states the useful service life of the handgun whereas NP22's manual says nothing like that. to me it looks like that they haven't done that much of a testing to establish the service of this handgun. but why would they? its not designed for any army, similarly, it'll probably never see any war, its Chinese in origin meaning you cannot sue them incase it doesnt live upto your expectations. SIMPLE! they dont need to. cause its not a combat handgun.




Historically speaking, however, most famous / legendary weapons that we know became famous and legendary only after they were extensively used by armies / law enforcement agencies. Isn't it :)

regards

exactly bro, exactly. glock shmock were nothing before they got adopted by someone big. same goes for SIG, before navy seals this handgun was practically unheard of.

in the end of the day, I feel that comparing a combat handgun to a "never-been" and "never-was" and probably "never-will-be" handgun is unfair. when equally priced, always choose an original over a clone.

Regards.

Gilani
29-01-2010, 04:00 PM
I have a feeling that CF 98 will be a far more FAMOUS weapon in a few years than what it is today. I was just wondering if somehow, the price of CF 98 gets increased to say something like 65 k, it might become a highly rated handgun overnight, at least in Pak Guns :rolleyes:

Usama
29-01-2010, 06:58 PM
Gilani
I will agree with you to some extent..!! I dunno why people have such mentalit!.. :lol:

zeeshan.pk
29-01-2010, 08:38 PM
daer brothers.u wl estonosh that interior of Cz scorpion is very fine ,magzines r better than CF98 and HP77,while sights r imaginably marvolous,what is ur opinions experts

Gilani
29-01-2010, 08:47 PM
Zeeshan bro, it would be better to discuss this issue in CZ 999 Scorpion thread. You will get a more focussed advise on the subject there :)
regards

A.Abbas
29-01-2010, 09:55 PM
So Gilani concluded the argument.. :/ hummmmm, no more Noke Jhonk in this thread any more :( . let me thinks (which I do rarely ;) ) , well, still thinking..., meanwhile...
Best of luck AK47 bro with your purchase and what ever you decide to.

mehranbiz
31-01-2010, 09:30 PM
What is exact weight and specification of HP77

On Google there is not any result for this model

Gilani
01-02-2010, 09:01 AM
What is exact weight and specification of HP77

On Google there is not any result for this model
You are right bro, these specs are not available. Its measurements are same as of NP-22, which you can see on Norinco site. However, it is heavier than NP22 because of a all steel body. I can weigh my friend's HP 77B on an electronic scale if you want :)

Vik
01-02-2010, 10:59 AM
What is exact weight and specification of HP77

On Google there is not any result for this model

Actually, its turning up PakGuns.

http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=396

KAKA
02-10-2011, 06:21 PM
What is exact weight and specification of HP77

On Google there is not any result for this model


its a SIGp226 clone! a real COPY! China has perfected its skill of COPYING! and i love china for that! Future Economy belongs to CHINA!

but still CZ999 scorpion is what i prefer, its just personal preference or the truth is ive bought it and i have to like it :D ... (Scorpion not a clone but very much similar.. or may be serbians feel ashamed of disclosing what they have copied)... :D

having said that, HP77 has nothing wrong to it... and has a good decocking mechanism than scorpion's... this is what i felt...

Fraz
07-10-2011, 05:11 PM
Cf98 all the waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy :d

Blitzz
07-10-2011, 11:06 PM
no pics?

Blitzz
07-10-2011, 11:08 PM
This should be enough in my books. a combat handgun is what a combat handgun does. it gets adopted by a combat oriented institution/organization. glock, SIG, baretta, HK all of these have walked these lines before so why should CF98 be any different. whereas nobody adopted HP77/NP34/22.




Hurray! bro, when equally priced, I would prefer the handgun which has finish as its secondary preference and would definitely stay away from the one which has reliability/durability as its secondary preference list.



That is what i'm saying all along. these clones are manufacture red to give users the so called satisfaction of owning something that looks like a SIG. the common illusion is that since it looks like a SIG, it'll probably work like one too. I got me a Chinese SIG clone and returned it back as soon as I came back to my senses. later on bought me a CZ999 Scorpion.



Exactly!, you'll find that CF98's manual clearly states the useful service life of the handgun whereas NP22's manual says nothing like that. to me it looks like that they haven't done that much of a testing to establish the service of this handgun. but why would they? its not designed for any army, similarly, it'll probably never see any war, its Chinese in origin meaning you cannot sue them incase it doesnt live upto your expectations. SIMPLE! they dont need to. cause its not a combat handgun.




exactly bro, exactly. glock shmock were nothing before they got adopted by someone big. same goes for SIG, before navy seals this handgun was practically unheard of.

in the end of the day, I feel that comparing a combat handgun to a "never-been" and "never-was" and probably "never-will-be" handgun is unfair. when equally priced, always choose an original over a clone.

Regards.

hmm so thats what multi quote meant :PP

Moeen
07-10-2011, 11:54 PM
Salam All,
LOLZ!

KAKA
08-10-2011, 12:45 AM
This should be enough in my books. a combat handgun is what a combat handgun does. it gets adopted by a combat oriented institution/organization. glock, SIG, baretta, HK all of these have walked these lines before so why should CF98 be any different. whereas nobody adopted HP77/NP34/22.


brother NP22 is being used by Pakistani Army as a side arm... :D

KAKA
08-10-2011, 12:51 AM
Quite an interesting discussion, enjoyed reading complete post. :)

As per my information, CF98 has been specifically developed as an official sidearm of Chinese Armed Forces. It was not adopted by Chinese Army after it was developed by Cheng Feng rather Cheng Feng developed it for Chinese Army. You see, there is a difference. This means users requirements (Chinese Army's requirements) were fully incorporated or kept in mind by Cheng Feng while developing CF98. Unlike many Western countries where arms manufacturers are independent in developing weapons and after having developed a weapon, they present it to various armies / LEAs for trials as and when they are required, weapon manufacturing in China is still a state owned business.

The whole argument is that a weapon which has been specifically designed keeping in mind the requirements of the biggest army of the world (size wise) has to have something special about it with regards to reliability, accuracy, ruggedness and affordability (low price). These generally are the attributes of a military handgun. Probably thats why, Chinese have reduced the cost effect by compromising on the finish etc which is probably a secondary consideration when it comes to selecting weapons for military use and not apparently compromised on the first three attributes.

NP22 / HP 77B / NP34 have been developed (or copied) keeping in mind the user requirements of civilian market, hence, better finish also gets priority. I am by no means trying to conclude that these are not reliable guns and only have a better finish. They may in certain cases prove far better than CF98. One has to, however, conduct extensive / prolonged trials to prove this.

Historically speaking, however, most famous / legendary weapons that we know became famous and legendary only after they were extensively used by armies / law enforcement agencies. Isn't it :)

regards


CF98 is chosen because its their OWN design and NP22 is a copy...

if some has been to china he will tell you that they do copy everything for the whole world, but for them they prefer what is of their own even if its not better than the copy...

all well made hand guns are some what similar, it depends on how much the shooter is comfortable with the gun... different hand guns are there for different hands!

zainulabdeen
08-10-2011, 08:46 AM
CF98 is chosen because its their OWN design and NP22 is a copy...

if some has been to china he will tell you that they do copy everything for the whole world, but for them they prefer what is of their own even if its not better than the copy...

all well made hand guns are some what similar, it depends on how much the shooter is comfortable with the gun... different hand guns are there for different hands!


well , in the presence of thecomments of experts like brother gilani and brother 12 gauge, i just want tooffer my two cents on the issue by saying that cf98 is no doubt an indigenousChinese design ,and no doubt it is adopted as official side arm of PLA yet isit worth ignoring that as the official side arm of PLA, cf 98 does not chamber9mm ?.... and does such a great shift in bullet calibers shall not have anyeffect over the performance of the weapon. I mean if cf 98 is originallydesigned for an indigenous Chinese round and it it performs flawlessly whenchambered in such round, is it necessarythat the performance of weapon should remain same in 9mm as well ? . the cf 98has been reported with some FTEs duo to its feeding system in two parts ,doesn’t it mean that may be such feeding system is ideal one for the round itis created and when used in 9mm , causes such problem ? . if it is the case ,than wont it be right that when we talk about the cf 98 chambered in 9mm , weare not talking about the gun used by PLA as its official side arm ?

Mehdi
08-10-2011, 11:14 AM
The discussion about different hand guns is very absorbing.Our really knowledgeable members have proved with their arguments/ experience that such and such hand gun is more reliable/ easy to draw/use.At the end of the day what matters is the gun in your hand maybe it costs 350k or 20k it will do the same job.Entirely a matter of personal satisfaction, mental comfort, and of course money.

Even a Darra made pistol in a expert hand will be more than lethal, and a top of the line handgun will prove useless in the hands of a novice.

So brothers be comfortable with what you have, practice firing on the range with your weapon and reach that level of self belief and confidence where you can trust your aim.

Birdshooter007
04-08-2012, 08:01 PM
NP22, NP24, HP77

Available anywhere in Pindi, new or used?

GunFun
04-09-2012, 03:36 AM
NP22, NP24, HP77

Available anywhere in Pindi, new or used?

baddurudin at the moment has hp77-asking price was 46k

GunFun
04-09-2012, 03:36 AM
NP22, NP24, HP77

Available anywhere in Pindi, new or used?

and that was new

ali87
16-12-2012, 08:09 PM
Is NP 22/34 , HP 77 avalible in Peshawer? Some one to please update

s.jawad
16-12-2012, 09:10 PM
Is NP 22/34 , HP 77 avalible in Peshawer? Some one to please update

ali87 brother yes these all are available in peshawar but in these three i found the np22 is the best one.
REGARDS

sadatpk
16-12-2012, 10:50 PM
The discussion about different hand guns is very absorbing.Our really knowledgeable members have proved with their arguments/ experience that such and such hand gun is more reliable/ easy to draw/use.At the end of the day what matters is the gun in your hand maybe it costs 350k or 20k it will do the same job.Entirely a matter of personal satisfaction, mental comfort, and of course money.

Even a Darra made pistol in a expert hand will be more than lethal, and a top of the line handgun will prove useless in the hands of a novice.

So brothers be comfortable with what you have, practice firing on the range with your weapon and reach that level of self belief and confidence where you can trust your aim.
exactly right sir g ,it is not only the gun but the hands which hold the gun matter a lot, but wd due respect and apology in anticipation,our Darra made guns have low grade metallurgy and may not touch the climax where shooter feels comforts

sharpshooter2010
17-02-2013, 03:43 PM
HP77 at 39 k from peshawar .

i bought np22 and my father got hp77 for himself .

difference between np-22 and hp-77 is of rails .

s.jawad
17-02-2013, 03:47 PM
HP77 at 39 k from peshawar .

i bought np22 and my father got hp77 for himself .

difference between np-22 and hp-77 is of rails .

sharpshooter brother i used these and you checked these pistols on same bullets then i think you can feel the defrence in these two.
Regards

sharpshooter2010
17-02-2013, 03:49 PM
whats the difference dear ?

s.jawad
17-02-2013, 04:04 PM
whats the difference dear ?

Brother when i checked these pistols then i found that NP22 is more reliable and accorate then HP77b may be this is only my feeling but i will feel more comfortable with NP22 again HP77b but i say maybe it's only my feelings.
Regards

sharpshooter2010
17-02-2013, 04:11 PM
i compared both np-22 and hp-77 .
np-22 grip is a bit better then hp-77 IMO
magazines are interchangeable and disasembly is also same . the only visible difference is that NP_22 has rails and HP-77 is without rails .
HP-77 has printed numbers like paint whereas NP-22 numbers are like the one on chinese TT .

s.jawad
17-02-2013, 04:16 PM
i compared both np-22 and hp-77 .
np-22 grip is a bit better then hp-77 IMO
magazines are interchangeable and disasembly is also same . the only visible difference is that NP_22 has rails and HP-77 is without rails .
HP-77 has printed numbers like paint whereas NP-22 numbers are like the one on chinese TT .

Yes brother i know your experinace is more then mine there for i say may be this is only my feelings.
Regards

sharpshooter2010
17-02-2013, 04:21 PM
i know nothing bro just sharing my humble observation.
:-P

asif mughal
09-03-2013, 10:13 AM
I don't quite intend to get into any discussion as such, coz I've never had any of these Chinese guns, but let me tell you frankly of MY IMPRESSION, when I first held the HP 77 in my hands some 12 months ago. Dealer in Peshawar at that time demanded a full 48K for it, but then, in those days, CF-98 was also priced higher than today, to be exact, at 42-45K.

Guyz, it felt so nice and solid in my hands that for an instantaneous moment, I even thought of taking it instead of the Cougar, which, in those days, stood between 60-65K.

I must say, I still can't forget the feeling of this gun in my hands, heck it was like controlling a tank, easily, comfortably! And my impression was, this thing is gonna last and it's gonna last long!

Ka-Khan complains above on finishing, I must say, I didn't find anything wrong on the one that I was presented.

In order to say anything about this gun, you gotta go down the street and try it for yourself! I'm sure, if you are determined to keep a Chinese, you won't just let it go, unless better "conceal-ability" drives you towards the CF-98. Try it, just hold it in your hands, you'll remember my words.

salams,,, i was going thru HP77b reviews,,, i own one actually and comparing the experience shared before ... your words " heck it was like controlling a tank, easily, comfortably!" are 100 % right... Regards.

NawabSaab
15-03-2013, 09:45 AM
AoA Everybody.

kindly accept my apologies for raining on everybody's parade here but come on! guyz we are talking about a cheap/inexpensive clone that is made to imitate the looks of an expensive original design handgun.

now with that in mind, i'm sure everybody must now understand that this cheap/inexpensive clone is not designed to mimic the performance benchmarks but designed to mimic the looks, that it. nothing more.

it should not be compared to an original design CF98. i've always said it and will say this again, NP22, NP34 are not at all at par with CF98. CF98 though inexpensive, is a combat pistol which have been adopted by an army (hint: chinese handgun) and it has been exported and has been adopted by other armies as well.

what does that tell ya? CF98 is designed for performance not looks. if these HP77, NP34, NP22 were that good, why would china invest so much money and resources in designing a new handgun for themselves. i'm sure any rational person would agree that it is alot easier to just copy a good design and adopt.

Economics also play a very important role here. you'll have to follow me for a while here. you see, when u copy and clone a good design to very letter and spirit (to the minutest of details and quality wise). the price difference diminishes. so its pointless to clone a good handgun if it will eventually cost you the same. sure some difference in price will remain, depending on the difference in labor and raw material costs. but that difference is negligible. therefore, the only way to make a clone and make money in the process is to sacrifice somewhere. that sacrifice could be in from of manufacturing quality/performance or looks. now think gentlemen, if a clone is designed while sacrificing on the looks, it would definitely be "adoption worthy" cause its a good design to begin with and it performs good too. Then why the Chinese didn't adopt the HP77, NP22, NP34? WHY NO OTHER ARMY HAS EXPRESSED INTEREST IN THEM TOO?

Regards.
Thanks 12 gauge bro, right as you always.

falcon4_89
29-06-2014, 03:18 AM
Salam everyone,

Quite nicely discussed the occurance of new Chinese pistol HP77 a Sig clone. I want to buy it too, as I have seen it live at one of arms dealer. But I want advice from the senior panel over here to please guide me whether I should go with the CF98 or HP77.

Enigmatic Desires
29-06-2014, 05:43 PM
Salam everyone,

Quite nicely discussed the occurance of new Chinese pistol HP77 a Sig clone. I want to buy it too, as I have seen it live at one of arms dealer. But I want advice from the senior panel over here to please guide me whether I should go with the CF98 or HP77.

Depends on what u need it for. if its for HD or the range. Then the HP77b (Preferably with assassory rails for a dedicated Home defence gun)

But for conceal carry the CF98 or its newer model the NP 42

falcon4_89
01-07-2014, 01:27 AM
@enigmatic desires

Salam bro, what does HP77B's accsessory rail include ? Plus is it reliable cuz I don't want to have almost any kinda issues related to a weapon. Hope you understand. Yeah well, i need one for both reasons for HD and the reliable one thing I.e. accuracy and overall.

Is there any specific way to distinguish between pak made or norinco imported HP77B/CF98. Hope to get kind suggestion.

I have a pak made pietro Beretta copy of 92FS 9mm. After using it for almost three and a half years, it's giving me tough times now.

Need a weapon that has both the qualities of HD as well as it should be reliable in almost every aspect. My budget is round 50 to 55 K.

Any kind and helpful suggestions. I don't want to buy a pak made machine this time.

falcon4_89
01-07-2014, 03:57 PM
Salam bro,

I need your expertised advice regarding buying a weapon 9mm i.e. CF98 / HP77.
I need a weapon which fulfills both scenarios HD & reliability (accuracy, weapon life).

Budget is round 50 to 55 K. Please advise me as per your experience.

FA226
01-07-2014, 07:40 PM
Salam bro,

I need your expertised advice regarding buying a weapon 9mm i.e. CF98 / HP77.
I need a weapon which fulfills both scenarios HD & reliability (accuracy, weapon life).

Budget is round 50 to 55 K. Please advise me as per your experience.

Brother go for HP/77 or Np22 all most the same if you want a reliable gun for HD.

1stranger
01-07-2014, 08:09 PM
Salam bro,

I need your expertised advice regarding buying a weapon 9mm i.e. CF98 / HP77.
I need a weapon which fulfills both scenarios HD & reliability (accuracy, weapon life).

Budget is round 50 to 55 K. Please advise me as per your experience.

Brother, before saying anything, first keep in mond that I am in no way an expert in the field of firearms... and following is a newbi's observation only...

Now coming to your query... I think HP77b/NP22 will be better than Cf98/NP42...

HP77B/NP22 are more durable than CF98/NP42 since earlier were full metal psitol... whereas NP42/CF98 is polymer framed... So in my opinion metal is more solid than polyner, but then this adds a bit weight.. but for HD purposes still NP22/HP77B's weight is no issue...

Plus NP22 is said to be more accurate than NP22/HP77B... although shooter performs major part in accuracy... however, as per senior nember Gilani Sb' famous review... NP22 turns out to be more accurate than CF98/NP42...

However, may I suggest couple of pistols in 55K ??

Well, before buying do look into Zastava's EZ9, which is later version of CZ999, a very robust and good pistol (more accurate than NP22/HP77B, CF98/NP42 IMO). Its made in Serbia and will be available in 55K in Peshawar. IMO

P.S. Please share your location, so that members help you accordingly. Thanks

1stranger
01-07-2014, 08:52 PM
Falcon brother

Check this very informative and comperative review of all these guns by our respected senior member Gilani Sb.. its worth reading...


http://www.pakguns.com/showthread.php?3001-Range-and-Comparative-Review-NP22&p=91734&viewfull=1#post91734

hmd
01-07-2014, 09:53 PM
Falcon brother

Check this very informative and comperative review of all these guns by our respected senior member Gilani Sb.. its worth reading...


http://www.pakguns.com/showthread.php?3001-Range-and-Comparative-Review-NP22&p=91734&viewfull=1#post91734
No doubt a very good review .

Aquarius
01-07-2014, 10:16 PM
Whats the difference between HP77 & NP22 apart from rails.

AK 74
01-07-2014, 10:31 PM
Whats the difference between HP77 & NP22 apart from rails.

If im not wrong hp77 is steel framed and np22 is alloy framed,also differs in finishing quality.hp77 finishing is better then np22 in looks.

FA226
01-07-2014, 10:33 PM
Whats the difference between HP77 & NP22 apart from rails.
The main difference is weight,HP77 is heavy because of all it steal construction and NP22 has alloy frame.The newer NP22 do comes with rails.

Aquarius
01-07-2014, 10:55 PM
The main difference is weight,HP77 is heavy because of all it steal construction and NP22 has alloy frame.The newer NP22 do comes with rails.

Thanks for the information bro.

falcon4_89
02-07-2014, 12:13 AM
Thank you so much for the guidance especially senior members.

The other thing that was bothering me is that, is there any significant way to check whether the HP77 is really norico imported or is it pak made.

Are there any prominent differences between China norinco and pak made HP77.

I am from, Multan. Here in market are the limited arms dealers. I was wondering if some one could guide me so that I buy a real China Norinco imported HP77 instead of pak made after spending 50 to 55 K.

Aquarius
02-07-2014, 12:31 AM
If im not wrong hp77 is steel framed and np22 is alloy framed,also differs in finishing quality.hp77 finishing is better then np22 in looks.
Thanks AK 74 bro for the information.

falcon4_89
02-07-2014, 01:01 AM
The main difference is weight,HP77 is heavy because of all it steal construction and NP22 has alloy frame.The newer NP22 do comes with rails.

the other thing that was bothering me is that, is there any significant way to check whether the HP77 is really norico imported or is it pak made.

Are there any prominent differences between China norinco and pak made HP77.

I am from, Multan. Here in market are the limited arms dealers. I was wondering if some one could guide me so that I buy a real China Norinco imported HP77 instead of pak made after spending 50 to 55 K.

FA226
02-07-2014, 02:40 AM
the other thing that was bothering me is that, is there any significant way to check whether the HP77 is really norico imported or is it pak made.

Are there any prominent differences between China norinco and pak made HP77.

I am from, Multan. Here in market are the limited arms dealers. I was wondering if some one could guide me so that I buy a real China Norinco imported HP77 instead of pak made after spending 50 to 55 K.
The best way is to go to reliable dealer bro.May be senior member for multan would be able to help you with reliable dealers in your area.

Ali 123
20-07-2014, 03:12 AM
Sir IMHO if you are planing to buy hp77b or np22 these are duty pistols. Have a look on np42 its a good weapon plus it weighs less than hp77b. i have recently sold hp77b.

Ali 123
24-07-2014, 03:13 AM
the other thing that was bothering me is that, is there any significant way to check whether the HP77 is really norico imported or is it pak made.

Are there any prominent differences between China norinco and pak made HP77.

I am from, Multan. Here in market are the limited arms dealers. I was wondering if some one could guide me so that I buy a real China Norinco imported HP77 instead of pak made after spending 50 to 55 K.
Brother 50-55k is higher, In karachi we are getting hp77b for 42k-45k.

imranashrafi1
31-07-2014, 02:14 AM
Brother 50-55k is higher, In karachi we are getting hp77b for 42k-45k.

Ali be... who is the best in this pistols? I mean to say that China HP 77b ? NP 22 and NP 42 ?

FA226
31-07-2014, 02:22 AM
Ali be... who is the best in this pistols? I mean to say that China HP 77b ? NP 22 and NP 42 ?
All of them are ok but my opinion Np22 with rails is batter.

imranashrafi1
31-07-2014, 09:38 PM
All of them are ok but my opinion Np22 with rails is batter.
ok dear whats a price ? this time in markit??

FA226
01-08-2014, 12:53 AM
ok dear whats a price ? this time in markit??
brother if you ask this question in price and availability thread senior member from Karachi will guide you better for the price there because it differs in different cities.

AK 74
01-08-2014, 01:39 AM
Ali be... who is the best in this pistols? I mean to say that China HP 77b ? NP 22 and NP 42 ?

For home defense and range use NP22,for self defense carry purpose NP42,its light in weight..
For price and availability ask it in relevant thread.you will get good and quick response

Ali 123
01-08-2014, 05:34 AM
Ali be... who is the best in this pistols? I mean to say that China HP 77b ? NP 22 and NP 42 ?
IMO np42. And ak74 brother said very well. +1

chakoo
01-08-2014, 06:35 PM
the other thing that was bothering me is that, is there any significant way to check whether the HP77 is really norico imported or is it pak made.

Are there any prominent differences between China norinco and pak made HP77.

I am from, Multan. Here in market are the limited arms dealers. I was wondering if some one could guide me so that I buy a real China Norinco imported HP77 instead of pak made after spending 50 to 55 K.

Bro I bought my np34 from majeed sons Multan. The guy there is very polite and regards pg members thanks to triger happy bro :-)

imranashrafi1
02-08-2014, 01:55 AM
brother if you ask this question in price and availability thread senior member from Karachi will guide you better for the price there because it differs in different cities.

Okay brother and thanks

imranashrafi1
02-08-2014, 02:00 AM
For home defense and range use NP22,for self defense carry purpose NP42,its light in weight..
For price and availability ask it in relevant thread.you will get good and quick response

Accually I am very confused that whats am i perchase. And thanks for advice me

imranashrafi1
02-08-2014, 02:01 AM
IMO np42. And ak74 brother said very well. +1

Okay Ali bro... you're right

Enigmatic Desires
06-08-2014, 01:39 PM
Most members I have known who have bought an HP 77b Or the NP 22 went on to buy the CF98/Np42 since it is far more carryable then the former 2.

Nothing wrong with the NP 22. For an HD weapon. But for conceal carry specially in summer. Not easy at all.

However, I prefer the rail wali HP 77b or the Np 22. (Yes there have been railed versions of the HP77B) since in an HD scenario it might be feasible to have a tactical light to distinguish Frend from foe.