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View Full Version : Smith&Wesson Sigma SW9VE Clone



qaiser
16-12-2009, 05:12 PM
AOA...This is s&w clone which is manufactured by
Sucha Gul Afridi(At Darra adam khail ...Factory Price 15k)
The image is of Sucha Gul Afridi's Clone.
http://s2.postimage.org/12NjIJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts12NjIJ)


it is also manufactured by
1 Najmuddin Afridi(At Darra adam khail....Factory Price 13k)
2 Sarhad arms company(At Peshawar.....Factory Price 15k)
3 Haroon arms company(At Peshawar.....Factory Price 15K)

(Prices may vary according to material and quality ..)

A.Abbas
16-12-2009, 05:20 PM
Qaiser, any reliable clone polymer frame lightweight pistol with with metal parts 4"+ barrel and 15rd mag? Quality parts and reliability is main concern and finish second concern.
Because SW9 by NFAC is not reliable i heard, it is a bit heavier and from the finish you can find out that it is local.

Sami
16-12-2009, 05:21 PM
A-O-A, Good edition to Pak.made club. Just a suggestion it should be posted at Pak.Made thread. A-H
@ Qaiser. Dear please fill up your location on your profile.thanks

qaiser
16-12-2009, 06:06 PM
@Abbas The SW9 with NFAC is of najmudinn afridi of darra.....and the polymer clones i know of are CZ100,Glock 17,Glock 19,S&W 9ve,Taures Millenium Pro,
i think 4" barrel is and 15 rds are of
Glock 17 price is 35k(i dont know of quality and warrenty )
glock 19 factroy price is 20 k(fair)
S&W prices mentioned above...if u go for finish go for harron arms company and for durability go for Sarhad arms company or Sucha Gul Afridi Darra(Sucha gul afridi gives 1 year on the spot replace warrenty and 6 year free repair)....(And always before buying a clone ask for warrenty....remember warrenty is of whole gun parts and firing )

Faisal Bakhtiar
16-12-2009, 11:05 PM
Today I saw this clone in Lahore but dont remember the manufacturer name and the dealer asking 30K . Please clarify is Sucha Gull giving warranty card ? and any dealer in Lahore have this Sucha Gul clone

mktahir
17-12-2009, 12:10 AM
some dealer say up to $ and Cf 98 rate is 45K is Right

i m in karachi

PsiFactor
17-12-2009, 05:45 PM
some dealer say up to $ and Cf 98 rate is 45K is Right

i m in karachi
mktahir bro please this is Smith & wesson clone thread dont post something releted to CF98 here.

Enigmatic Desires
17-12-2009, 05:54 PM
some dealer say up to $ and Cf 98 rate is 45K is Right

i m in karachi

which one?

AK47
17-12-2009, 09:16 PM
What's so great about this Sigma clone? The price? Indeed, they've managed a true copy as such, yet that's as far as the similarity in looks is concerned, and I guess nothing more than that! Interesting would be if they've maintained the double action only feature, or enabled it for single action? Second, do you still need a few horsepowers to get that trigger done, or has it softened up?

Finally, let me say, with all due respect, I've always been of the firm opinion, that if one cannot afford a good car in this country, better take a good, new, solid and original bike, rather than a piece of junk with four wheels, that would ultimately have you pushing around with it by every second street corner. And sometimes, nobody comes forth to give you a hand even!

In function, I doubt any of these better looking clones could ever come up to even 50% of original, and if they still could, they'll never come close to even 10% in mental peace for the one with a real need to have a gun. Now some would perhaps say : "AK, course I wouldn't take it for SD, only for practice". Well, let me say, regardless of all threads about improvement in local manufacturing of handguns, I still just don't stand convinced. Anytime, I have held a local gun in my hands, it was like shooting with the eyes closed, fearing either a face full of slide, an eyeball hanging out, or a hand partially blown away! Frankly speaking, don't let looks befool you!

One of the more demoralizing things of all about the continued improvements, in the pure aesthetics of counterfeits, be it this S/W or any other one for that sake, is, that in a couple of years all pleasure and pride of having something original will eventually vanish away in the blue, when, at anytime, in any company, or on any occasion, you do in a proud and self-satisfactory mood, un-holster your genuine thing, only to be promptly faced to one stupid question: "Sir jee, yeh asli hai ya ke "Darre walla"?

I don't mean to be lambasting upon our local manufacturers, indeed we have very skilled people, and they should be encouraged genuinely, it's just that something indigenous should have been created, and rather than aesthetics more concentration on metallurgy and functional effectiveness should have been struggled for, than the tricky business of trying to give people a false and self-conceived feeling of having a 2 or 300K gun @25K. Why do we take the Chinese with ease and pride? NOT because of aesthetics, only because of fair prices along with smooth functionality and robust metallurgy. I hope you'd agree.

Salahuddin Ayubi
17-12-2009, 09:26 PM
Finally, let me say, with all due respect, I've always been of the firm opinion, that if one cannot afford a good car in this country, better take a good, new, solid and original bike, rather than a piece of junk with four wheels, that would ultimately have you pushing around with it by every second street corner. And sometimes, nobody comes forth to give you a hand even!

++1 Well said bro.

You've pretty much summed it all up quite nicely here.

Anthrax
18-12-2009, 02:10 AM
Nice clone!

Ak47: Mind you, the folks producing clones have been doing this job way before you and I existed. So how can we question their reliability without knowing ANYTHING about their product? It's their "Rozi roti". They get the job done, and that's why they keep producing more and more. Hint: Their products works and is worth the money!

Not only that, they're providing poor yet skilled people with JOBS in THIS dry economy by going for new projects. I do agree with you on the part about safety but then again, "Ak's" that are being produced in Darra locally have seen more than one front and their reliability still gives Mikhail Kalashnikov nightmares.

Lets not question a weapons reliability until we've had some experiences with it ourselves.

Regards

AK47
18-12-2009, 07:56 AM
@Anthrax bro..........Plz refer to final para of my above post, in which I agree with you, indeed, that local industry should be encouraged.

Furthermore, I agree with you that one shouldn't form opinions without personal experience. Unfortunately, I have a personal experience, I forgot to mention above, in that I'm one lucky guy still to have both my eyes! Hammer of a local T.T in my palm at reload time of new mag, should speak for itself! I was lucky it wasn't pushed back at next fire, but before it, coz it really wouldn't have been an ideal position at next fire with front sight, rear sight and my eye all in alignment in shooting position! What broke off with the minimal and sheer force of my thumb in pulling it back, would perhaps have caused some serious damage by the recoiling force of slide and hammer at time of fire! Second, a cousin of mine nearly lost parts of his hand in another incident of a total kaboom! I believe that's experience. Failed metallurgy seems reason behind both incidents, though aesthetics were all just fine in both guns! That's all I meant to say.

Finally, I mentioned also that for men who really need to have a gun, that means, men who do not keep it in the closet only, or for the sheer joy of wedding parties fun, a local clone cannot ever give the mental satisfaction required.

I do not by any chance mean to be lambasting upon our local manufacturers, indeed they're doing a remarkable job, but I do feel there is still way to go in reliability and functionality. Aesthetics, they have come up quite fine to, recently.

As regards local Ak's, well, I haven't tried them to pass any comment, but I still wouldn't ever opt for one. Overall, I would say, that in local productions, I'd take Daudson's items any given day, since P.O.F items are still not for public sector.

Salahuddin Ayubi
18-12-2009, 08:33 AM
Ak47: Mind you, the folks producing clones have been doing this job way before you and I existed. So how can we question their reliability without knowing ANYTHING about their product? It's their "Rozi roti". They get the job done, and that's why they keep producing more and more. Hint: Their products works and is worth the money!

Not only that, they're providing poor yet skilled people with JOBS in THIS dry economy by going for new projects. I do agree with you on the part about safety but then again, "Ak's" that are being produced in Darra locally have seen more than one front and their reliability still gives Mikhail Kalashnikov nightmares.

Lets not question a weapons reliability until we've had some experiences with it ourselves.

Regards

Bro, I have to agree with AK here. If it's my life I'm trying to protect, I would always go for the best possible option available with minimal doubt about reliability and quality which my budget allows. Instead of two or three clones, I'll buy one quality weapon. If I still don't have the money, I'll wait till I have the money and in the meantime, buy Daudsons 12g pump action, which is the only Pakistani weapon, I would be willing to trust.

I've read some say that we use clones for practice. I personally think that one should practice with the same gun with which he intends to defend himself when the need arises.

In the end, considering the fact that our local production is not institutionalized and standardized, I would rate our local clones as simply a hit or miss, with the miss carrying too high a risk for me to take.

Regarding your point "They get the job done, and that's why they keep producing more and more". Pak Suzuki also keeps producing more and more Mehran. Doesn't make it a good car. It remains a piece of crap on four wheels. And yes, I owned one and drove it daily for four long torturous years and despite the fact that I maintain my things very well, this car kept giving me severe headaches. Poor quality and low reliability. Ofcourse, it came dirt cheap compared to others. After four years, I ditched it and got myself a Hyundai Santro Exec, which I still have as a second car after 4.5 years with ZERO problems (FTFs/FTEs).

qaiser
18-12-2009, 09:05 AM
ak 47 bhai sigma is SAO...u r right to some extent
what makes a a handgun 1000% qualitatvive wise similar 2 glock or sigma is its barrell.mettalargy .springs and surface treatments
the hammer forged barrrel making machine costs 15 to 25 million dollars
the surface treatment bath(carburizing) costs RS 10 million ....(the glocks treatment bath none can even dream about it)(thats carbon nitriding bath i think it started in 1995) the external coating on glock is managanese phosphating(its really shamefull that in 4 years i didnt got a single book on it in libraries of U.E.T peshawar)
as far as springs are considred that quality is also bit hard 2 acheive(the orignal uses chrome silicon wires)even POF and DSA uses carbon wires so the 1 you talked about are also way behind....
as far as chinese are considered they are backed by their governmnts in every way (the gov colllects all industrail metrail needs of 1 year of every type of industry n then give order to the internationl suppliers...they suppliers cant meet the order even in months...that causes a kind of shortage of that metrails...china gets the materails on almost 40 to 50 % on lower price...i think our gov is not in that mood...and it wont happen in a decade. . .

Zhatash
18-12-2009, 09:07 AM
@ SA & AK47 very candid comments.

One should not go after the outer shell , but it should be the reliability, quality control and assurance of the product.

qaiser
18-12-2009, 09:13 AM
if somebody invest that much ...then our diff deptt will start visiting them.....its really painfull and shameful to say but" kharcha pani"
the other gov promotes their industreis while our depttsss.... . .
after all these difficulteis if by chance a person got hands on the product ....what will be his decision???? if its 40 k ..he will prefer (made in china..made in brazil..made in usa)

AK47
18-12-2009, 09:21 AM
@qaiser..........to my best belief, Sigma original is DAO. I may be wrong, but in either case, there's a trigger issue of stiffness. If
you're referring to the clone, I cannot say. Correct me, if I'm wrong.

SA.......Mehran and local clone.....what a pair! Lolz! In any case, with your stature, be it the Mehran OR the Santro, I somehow just can't help the feeling of being back into mum's tummy!

And about your second notion above, about the DSA security, I agree, excellent choice. Yet, I must say, trying to shove it down somehow into the "Shalwaar", would really make quite a "boast-able" item down there!

Antrax bro........Just on a funnier note, Mr. Kalashnikov is more into Vodka these days! In "AK design" bottles! Another beautiful invention by him.

qaiser
18-12-2009, 09:43 AM
i have an orignal sigma a bit used one but its SAO

AK47
18-12-2009, 05:33 PM
@Qaiser........Then I must have forgotten. Yet how's the trigger, let's hear?

Enigmatic Desires
19-12-2009, 01:14 AM
After four years, I ditched it and got myself a Hyundai Santro Exec, which I still have as a second car after 4.5 years with ZERO problems (FTFs/FTEs).


SA sahib.. Your sentro is worth its waight in gold. I did the same thing ditched a mehran to get a sentro. after it was giving me trouble

But GOD.. i knew not hte meaning of the term till I got the sentro.. last 2 weeks I have taken her to bout 9 workshops and tens of thousands but even today she is just standing there wont move an inch..

Had I had ammo yesterday.. i would have simply emptied magazaine after ma of 12 guage SG into her with absolute satisfaction!!!

Honestly that vahicle taught me the meaning of the the term "hate"

Salahuddin Ayubi
19-12-2009, 08:50 PM
@ED,

Bought it brand new. Till now it's been maintained through Hyundai authorized dealership only as per its maintenance schedule. And to-date (four and half years & 50,000kms) I haven't had 'A SINGLE' problem with this car, be it mechanical or from body part point of view.

AK47
19-12-2009, 09:17 PM
@SA...........Buddy check para 2, post 17 above, still no problems, if not mechanical, perhaps "spacial"? :lol:

Faisal Bakhtiar
20-12-2009, 01:08 AM
All Sir jees please cool down no need of these useless arguments of Mehran and Santro every new car have no issues till one or two year but no reason to discuss this so leave this car debate. Secondly please appreciate AK saheb that he is giving a good advise to save you from any incident cause of any non reliable product and its upto you like or don't like. Its simple!

Regards

Enigmatic Desires
20-12-2009, 02:41 AM
@ED,

Bought it brand new. Till now it's been maintained through Hyundai authorized dealership only as per its maintenance schedule. And to-date (four and half years & 50,000kms) I haven't had 'A SINGLE' problem with this car, be it mechanical or from body part point of view.


In retrospect its just as well.. Taht I couldn't find any ammo.. the state I was in...

SHe is the only reason I am asking for a lift to hot bites today :(

Dr Zakir
20-12-2009, 09:35 PM
looks a good copy , but then again i will tend to agree with AK47 for SD u cannot risk it , may be u can buy for fun get couple of rounds off and sell it but for SD a no no .for me minimum would be cf 98

139
20-12-2009, 10:39 PM
@qaisar: In terms of reliability which do you recommend.. cz 100 or s & w sigma...

139

qaiser
21-12-2009, 07:19 AM
In terms of reliability and Durability,i recommend CZ100