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View Full Version : AMAZING Pakistan made replica of Stoeger Cougar (Pics)



Anthrax
24-11-2009, 11:24 PM
Went to Umar Traders today in Sadar where I saw a mind blowing copy of the Stoeger Cougar! In first look, I couldn't spot a difference but the owner then told me that it's a local made clone! Woah, our desi industry is getting better day by day!

There were two Stoegers. One was in its original scheme and the other one was a two tone. Sorry about the low quality pictures, I was in a hurry and my phone doesn't have a good camera (Bloody apple) :D

Price is 36k.

Here are the pics;


http://s1.postimage.org/1DdnXJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx1DdnXJ)

http://s2.postimage.org/3I5ei.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts3I5ei)

http://s1.postimage.org/1DdKp0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx1DdKp0)

http://s3.postimage.org/1lD3_i.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1lD3_i)



Stoeger clone - two tone;


http://s1.postimage.org/1DekP9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx1DekP9)

http://s3.postimage.org/1lDsWJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1lDsWJ)

http://s4.postimage.org/140zMJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV140zMJ)

http://s4.postimage.org/140TJS.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV140TJS)

Gilani
24-11-2009, 11:34 PM
Wonderful copy, but isn't 36k too much for a clone?

Ilyas
24-11-2009, 11:37 PM
Amazing... a very good copy, but I think the price of 36k is too high for a replica.

@Moeen Bhai... Maan Gaye ! :)

Our Gun Guru, Moeen Bhai had told me almost two months ago, that Cougar clone
would soon hit the market.

Ka_Khan
24-11-2009, 11:39 PM
Have seen the Copies right in the factory where they are made.
Factory price is 18K so dont pay more then 20K.
Anthrax is right about the quality and finish.There is no difference and if you are not an expert,even the close examination cant differentiate.The finish,markings and the computerized writting is very very fine.

Coffin Feeder
24-11-2009, 11:42 PM
Yes few days back I also came across one of those while looking for orignal Cougar, but I think the finish is not the same as that of Orignal.

GatlinGun
24-11-2009, 11:45 PM
Interesting Find.

Borrowing from the great inventors of the work Durreta, can we call this Pouger, or Douger?

Anthrax
24-11-2009, 11:47 PM
Interesting Find.

Borrowing from the great inventors of the work Durreta, can we call this Pouger, or Douger?

Lol +1! I'd definitely call it the Douger! Sounds neat :P

And yes, the price is way too much! 36K is unreasonable but I think if this one's available around 20-25 then its not such a bad piece. And trust me, the finish was actually pretty good! Had me confused for a minute or two. ;)

Slayerjatt
24-11-2009, 11:52 PM
damn. i think soon cougar clones will be considered among the best local made clones. but we need some expert members to tell us how to differentiate between the original and clone otherwise many will be fooled.

GatlinGun
24-11-2009, 11:53 PM
Interesting Find.

Borrowing from the great inventors of the work Durreta, can we call this Pouger, or Douger?

Lol +1! I'd definitely call it the Douger! Sounds neat :P

And yes, the price is way too much! 36K is unreasonable but I think if this one's available around 20-25 then its not such a bad piece. And trust me, the finish was actually pretty good! Had me confused for a minute or two. ;)

So if this Douger had the same metallurgy as the St Couger, it might be a good buy at 20 K.

Gilani
24-11-2009, 11:53 PM
Have seen the Copies right in the factory where they are made.
Factory price is 18K so dont pay more then 20K.
Anthrax is right about the quality and finish.There is no difference and if you are not an expert,even the close examination cant differentiate.The finish,markings and the computerized writting is very very fine.

Ka_Khan Sir, how about the metallurgy of the barrel ?

GatlinGun
24-11-2009, 11:54 PM
damn. i think soon cougar clones will be considered among the best local made clones. but we need some expert members to tell us how to differentiate between the original and clone otherwise many will be fooled.

I guess the only way is to beg the dealer to be honest, Allah rasool kee Kasmain dain, lol...

aq4530ba
24-11-2009, 11:57 PM
to expensive, 36k is wayyy to steep.. like Ka_Khan said it should be about 18-20k. That would be ideal! :D

AK47
25-11-2009, 12:09 AM
Amazed! Had to un-holster my own to better judge the differences! Anyhow, in hands, I'm still sure I could tell a difference without having the original by my side. Yet on pictures, it's quite another affair. Major difference, apart from more "shine", is the "upper corner" of the grip, just below the safety lock. Another is the "white" writing. On the original, it's black, at least on mine.

Yet, hats off to our local 'karigars", indeed they've done a remarkable job. Only way to better avoid getting a clone from the market, is to buy any new thing at the very moment it hits the market. 36k however is way out of bounds. Something like 10-12k would be more appropriate, though I do feel some "unlucky" ones may already have paid a full 53K for their very first gun!

Anthrax
25-11-2009, 12:12 AM
AK47: Sir, 10 hazaar ka tu acha local made TT bhi nahi aata aaj kal. :P I think 20-22 is a reasonable price. After all, i bet they've worked their arse off to reverse engineer the stoeger. They deserve that much amount at least.

GatlinGun
25-11-2009, 12:19 AM
I wonder if we can shed some light on the actual company who has done this feat.

AK47
25-11-2009, 12:21 AM
Antrax bro......... A TT is priced at 5-7K, and I've seen the 92fs clone in SS @ 13K! Yet, you're right they may like to recover their hard work quickly. Bear in mind the 92fs clone is a copy of a +200k gun, how a copy of a 45- 50k gun could be priced higher. Yet, let's see where it finally stabilizes.

Anthrax
25-11-2009, 12:27 AM
Antrax bro......... A TT is priced at 5-7K, and I've seen the 92fs clone in SS @ 13K! Yet, you're right they may like to recover their hard work quickly. Bear in mind the 92fs clone is a copy of a +200k gun, how a copy of a 45- 50k gun could be priced higher. Yet, let's see where it finally stabilizes.

That's true. In that context, It should be priced around 5k. :P

Anyway, I think we have a lot of potential in gun manufacturing. My friend at Umar Traders was telling me that soon our local industry will produce an indigenous design for export. Phir our "Kaarigars" can ask whatever price they want for their product based on its indigenous design and overall reliability.

AK47
25-11-2009, 12:38 AM
Indeed, we got the potential, I think it's quality material that's in the scarce. And, the blunder and inability of our government, to utilize the craftsmanship of our people for national gain. Who says, we couldn't come level with Turkey in this field at least, just aint got no smart people around up there in the pinnacles, where daily business is more about how to amass CDA land at 10% price, and double assets of past 'fiscal" year! Hats off again to our "karigaars"!

KageFox
25-11-2009, 12:49 AM
The original only comes in black, right? I saw a stainless-looking Cougar at Ahmad Traders (Khadda Market), he was a bit vague about it when I asked him if it was local... to a newbie like me, it sounded as if he was trying to sell a local clone under the guise of the original.

Whatever it was, it looked well-made, no doubt...

AK47
25-11-2009, 12:57 AM
Sure KF, original is black as far as Stoeger is concerned, yet original Beretta was available in SS as long as it was still manufactured over there.

KageFox
25-11-2009, 01:42 AM
I know, Beretta gained great fame for their Inox finish...

The one I saw had a kind of a dull (matte) stainless finish, not exactly the gleaming kind...

SAJJAD ALI
25-11-2009, 03:10 AM
damn. i think soon cougar clones will be considered among the best local made clones. but we need some expert members to tell us how to differentiate between the original and clone otherwise many will be fooled.

I guess the only way is to beg the dealer to be honest, Allah rasool kee Kasmain dain, lol...
LOLzz

Vik
25-11-2009, 04:12 AM
damn. i think soon cougar clones will be considered among the best local made clones. but we need some expert members to tell us how to differentiate between the original and clone otherwise many will be fooled.

I agree SJ. We need some pointers to recognize a clone.

LionHeart
25-11-2009, 10:49 AM
Nice Sharing Brother: Its really a good shaped clone specially the first one in Black. we must appreciate our local makers specially the working hands behind this, If our local makers are doing that good without using any latest technology/Machinery then just imagine If they will get guidelines, proper equipments along with the govt support then we all will agreed with this that we (PAKISTAN) can produce batter then many other foreign counties.


Now talk about current era where batter and batter clones are hitting the market so we are getting more concerned of being fooled by these clones/dealers. What i am thinking and my humble suggestion (hope Abbas Bhai and Mods will agreed with) Make a dedicated Sticky to differentiate these good clone from their original products So when ever someone came to know or see any good clone, try to get their good quality photos/details and will post it there then all our Experts/Senior member are requested to give some solid references (Photo graphical evidence/ Text Details ) that how someone can differentiate b/w clones and originals. Therefore Pakguns will be able to minimize the risk of getting fooled.

So here our Brother Anthrax did a really nice job of sharing this nice clone and I think this is a good new clone to start with but for this we have to request Anthrax (if possible) then will try to get some good quality photos again so it will do the needful.

Abbas Bhai Looking forward for your feedback...

khakiMB
25-11-2009, 10:54 AM
I have not come across a better clone. I think our boys are doing a fine job!!!!

Starfish
25-11-2009, 10:54 AM
Anthrax: thanks for the pictures. This really could be invaluable information for anyone buying or planning to buy a cougar.
The price is too much for a clone of a 44K pistol though. I wonder if it will persist.

Mitho
25-11-2009, 11:20 AM
yup seen this even fired it at a dealer.thing is rotating barrel desing is a new concept for our arms manufactures it would be much better if we stay away from it for time bieng.as metallergy is not a plus point for them.retail price 26 to 28 whole sale 20k in khi so 20 k retail is impossible.magzines r also not that good.

Topak
25-11-2009, 12:33 PM
amazing did they copied the rotating barrel system too ?

aq4530ba
25-11-2009, 01:51 PM
amazing did they copied the rotating barrel system too ?

Yaar if they copied that also, then i must say that our carigaars do indeed have amazing talent! They should start designing their own guns actually! and they would probably make something near what these international companies make.. what say? :D

Salahuddin Ayubi
25-11-2009, 01:51 PM
amazing did they copied the rotating barrel system too ?

I doubt it. However, waiting for feedback from senior members.

Glocky
25-11-2009, 02:24 PM
amazing did they copied the rotating barrel system too ?

I doubt it. However, waiting for feedback from senior members.

Its actually a very simple mechanism. so copying or reverse engineering it should be no problem at all. What would be doubtful is the metallurgy and reliability of the firearm.

Usama
25-11-2009, 03:24 PM
Anthrax: thanks for the pictures. This really could be invaluable information for anyone buying or planning to buy a cougar.
The price is too much for a clone of a 44K pistol though. I wonder if it will persist.

+1

wasifali89
25-11-2009, 08:40 PM
expensive it is

i must say that

Mitho
25-11-2009, 08:50 PM
only thing our karigars have done is make a clone which is going to be sold as a genuine.....as chinese tt's cf98s.

AK47
25-11-2009, 09:01 PM
I'm 95% sure the rotating barrel system is copied as well, coz it's a natural outfall of the design. Experts will be able to see it clearly by field-stripping, amateurish pioneers may "stick" a finger in during fire, just to be sure ALL IS copied!

aq4530ba
25-11-2009, 10:42 PM
I'm 95% sure the rotating barrel system is copied as well, coz it's a natural outfall of the design. Experts will be able to see it clearly by field-stripping, amateurish pioneers may "stick" a finger in during fire, just to be sure ALL IS copied!

hahaha! :lol:

Ka_Khan
25-11-2009, 10:59 PM
amazing did they copied the rotating barrel system too ?

I doubt it. However, waiting for feedback from senior members.

Yes they have copied the rotating barrel system !
Have seen it in the factory.One thing to note guys...as mentioned by AK 47,clone of a 92 FS or Glock make sense as actual costing around 200K.No need to buy a Coughar clone around 30K if you could get the origional one around 40K.
I may share a little secret with you guys :) (Insider told me).
The coughar clone is giving problems in FTF and FTE.It could not beat 92 FS clone.

Sohail Waheed
26-11-2009, 01:40 AM
Cant comment on its reliability or other issues but this time local manufacturers has take the lead.Very fine finishing and a perfect replica of origional.I also saw that they had also copied the rotating barrel mechanisam. "GEO PAKISTANI"

@Anthrax, did you also noticed the sudden change in Umar traders inventory.Before my last visit (Monday) i never saw any imported items in their racks but now they are moving ahead with imported ones.

aq4530ba
26-11-2009, 09:37 AM
amazing did they copied the rotating barrel system too ?

I doubt it. However, waiting for feedback from senior members.

...Clone of a 92 FS or Glock make sense as actual costing around 200K.No need to buy a Cougar clone around 30K if you could get the origional one around 40K.
I may share a little secret with you guys :) (Insider told me).
The cougar clone is giving problems in FTF and FTE.It could not beat 92 FS clone.

Very true sir... Might as well get the original in a little more... And that is why i love my 92fs clone! :lol:

Sohail
26-11-2009, 01:49 PM
KK is right, the right price must be not more than 20 k for the clone, as if the price is around 35k than why not go for the original one which must be just 15 k plus.

regards

Skeeter60
26-11-2009, 03:17 PM
I don't think we can export clones except may be to Darfur,Somalia or the aboriginys in the rain forests

Enigmatic Desires
26-11-2009, 04:44 PM
I saw a frontier arms clone some time back.. It was worth around 30K and while the finishing was good .. it was not as good as the original.. But I seriosly doubt that any one will buy an actual clone for 36 when they can get the original one for only a few Ks more

RFR
26-11-2009, 04:58 PM
I totally agree with Lion heart as though it is good to promote our local Gun Smiths but cloning never promotes the industries. Especially in weapons industry cloning may be even dangerous. Remember the reduction in price is actually due to compromises on metallurgy, quality and craftsmanship which may result into accidents and even precious lives.
All those our gun enthusiasts who like clones just because of its low costs; My humble advice is to stay away. Always remember these handguns are their to save your and your family life, so do not take such risks ever. Always keep a weapon on which you can rely and depend ...........in the times you really need it.
SAFETY FIRST GUYS
http://s2.postimage.org/8owWi.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts8owWi)

Starfish
26-11-2009, 05:17 PM
I totally agree with Lion heart as though it is good to promote our local Gun Smiths but cloning never promotes the industries. Especially in weapons industry cloning may be even dangerous. Remember the reduction in price is actually due to compromises on metallurgy, quality and craftsmanship which may result into accidents and even precious lives.
All those our gun enthusiasts who like clones just because of its low costs; My humble advice is to stay away. Always remember these handguns are their to save your and your family life, so do not take such risks ever. Always keep a weapon on which you can rely and depend ...........in the times you really need it.
SAFETY FIRST GUYS
http://s2.postimage.org/8owWi.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts8owWi)

+1. Safety first.

BaderJanjua
26-11-2009, 07:39 PM
Local Cougars marking are in White

Moeen
26-11-2009, 10:41 PM
Salam All, Currently, Stoeger, G17, G19, Taurus, CZ999, Sig226, CZ100, CZ75 & 85, Beretta copies ARE in production locally. Whats to come? I know for fact that currently in works is: 3rd Generation G17, 19, Beretta PX4 STorm, and someguy is trying hard for USP!!!!

Gilani
26-11-2009, 11:14 PM
One thing to note guys...as mentioned by AK 47,clone of a 92 FS or Glock make sense as actual costing around 200K.No need to buy a Coughar clone around 30K if you could get the origional one around 40K.

Absolutely agreed, Sir. :)

Yardie Jutt
27-11-2009, 12:22 AM
nifty duplicate i must say!
as KF said above, wicked sellers could easily trick newbies like us for this one
but since AK 47 sb has imparted some seeable differences so it ain't possible no more :)

KHAN_TORA
27-11-2009, 11:11 PM
Salaam All and Eid Mubarak, I have had chance to look through some of the threads as i have been busy with work commitments and because of you guys it looks like i will be adding the stoegar to my handguns(Makarov,CZ-75).
As i am still overseas and before i contact my brothers dealer friend could any of my fellow pakgunners from NWFP tell me what the current price of the stoegar is there and the cost of extra original 15 round mags.

Also if anyone knows of places were original CZ-75 magazines can be acquired(also Moeen wror if you can arrange new ones from your importer friends at reasonable cost) and at what price.I have not asked my brothers friend to get them yet as i trust the Pakgunners to quote the prices first and then compare with what he says.

Moeen wror are there any pictures of the CZ-75 copies being made locally that you can post as i do not want to appear paranoid but i had to leave overseas due to work commitments and did not have time to fire any rounds so allthough the serial numbers and writings seemed genuine i want to make sure especially when i return in june next year that all is well.Nowadays even friends are capable of anything (except for Pakgunners)

ARJ
29-11-2009, 03:58 PM
Local Cougars marking are in White

@ PGs experts & Abbas Bhai,
we all new stouger owner "wana bees" would really appreciate if the difference between the local and the original Stouger can be elaborated so that we buy the piece with confidence. Right now im really shaky as what to do....!

Ka_Khan
30-11-2009, 12:12 AM
@Khan_Tora...wrora...the origional is around 44K in Peshawar.The copy is @18K (good one).
Dont know about magazines.About your question about clone of CZ 75...have seen copy of CZ 100 @14K.
@ARJ...always buy a gun from a reputable dealer and once you had its purchase receipt,dont worry.You can get his neck even after years if you found that he has sold you the copy.
One TIP to all of YOU....what i noticed from my little experience...What ever finishing our local gunsmith make,they cant/fail/ignore the finishing inside the gun.Once you disassamble the gun,the rough finishing can be seen.

Sherwan_88
30-11-2009, 03:38 AM
My first pistol was a 92 clone, simply it was a P.O.S! i was so annoyed with it, that i literally hammered it to its destruction.
I am not saying the clones are bad, good stuff for their price, but on reliability they don't come close to the original.

My 92 clone started rusting the third day, the paint started to come after a month showing the bluing, the hammer was so bad, you had to jerk the trigger to actually shoot it. The slide and the magazine usually bit my skin off. Since then i've resolved myself only to imported firearms. I cannot buy a original Beretta 92 due to financial limitations. I would rather wait on life to buy an original one than to go for a desi clone.

I though love the desi PB's but that is not for this forum.

XMen
30-11-2009, 03:55 AM
Interesting findling but the price is not more than 20K

wasifali89
30-11-2009, 04:36 PM
say NO to clones

Enigmatic Desires
01-12-2009, 01:53 AM
Not all clones r bad

Salahuddin Ayubi
01-12-2009, 09:30 AM
Not all clones r bad

Not all 'desi' clones are bad for 'fun'.

But the idea of desi clones for SD is a bad one.

Naveed_pk
01-12-2009, 01:17 PM
+1 SA bro... we cant risk our lives trusting on a clone..

haiderkn
01-12-2009, 01:23 PM
Brothers the clone of stouger is also available in our local market at Peshawar, but the price depends on the finish of the piece.

Anthrax
03-12-2009, 10:38 PM
No cf clones in Lahore as of today. I know this because I'm always the first one to know about clones in my city. Take the storger as an example ;) back to the topic, shall we?

139
04-12-2009, 08:34 PM
I have not come across a better clone. I think our boys are doing a fine job!!!!
any words on working quality of the product..

139

9mm Luger
05-12-2009, 12:07 AM
why cant pakistanis come up with a original local / mixtures of clones :D

why just why???

Ghuncha
08-12-2009, 09:37 PM
ah, i was about to get a cougar , now i am shaky..... is shams, rawalpindi has a good enough repute to sell original stuff?

further more market going price of cougar in pindi?

Sensei
14-12-2009, 03:32 PM
Is it cloning or theft?? If this is all happening legally or under license then I must say that our gunsmiths are doing really great job if also not compromising the quality of their firearms
otherwise whats a differnce between legal cloning and Piarcy?
I personlly would never like to promote piarcy :| as far as the
capability of our Carrigars is concerned I myself believe that they can make much much better guns by their own no doubt about this but why not doing this to us, please think :)

AK-86
14-12-2009, 09:28 PM
This kind of acts make the other foriegn countries think to ban their civilian arms from improting to Pakistan. :(

Sensei
17-12-2009, 10:51 PM
O Yes it could happen and its not a big deal if they could stop
our fishries trade just because of xyz hygienic reasons so they can do the same with firearms exports to us,the legality of fire arm is not with its license only making of firearms legally is also very important or is it not? :|

AK47
09-04-2011, 09:45 PM
Came across the local Stoeger a couple of days back by a local dealer/gunsmith. Well, exterior-wise it was quite similar and I, being a Stoeger owner myself, truly had to scan the differences!!! The popular "Magzine" vs "Magazine" issue was also solved here!!

The Pak makers have a serious issue with the plastic furniture, be it in handguns or shotguns. Stoeger grips on local made stand out as main distinguishable difference, being very poor in quality and instantly felt odd on holding the gun in the hands.

A field-strip further revealed rust and rougher interiors. Re-assembling was difficult as well, and required a forceful push on the slide to go back to battery position. I can see this gun FTE'ing from round 1. Looks were exactly like those pictured on the 1.st page of this thread.

Also came across a Maverick 88 shotgun, which too very much resembled the original, except for the poor plastic furniture.

Price demanded was 23K's (Stoeger clone)! Wonder why they don't add original grips at this price. But thanks God, they don't, lolz!

Beware!


Regards.

Asiftt
10-04-2011, 02:43 AM
Dear AK bro i wonder why they made a clone for Stoeger, but that makes original Stoeger more famous, clones of H&K and Sigs are understandable, i have heard in a news few months ago a foreigner was trying carry a cloned berreta 92 to his country and stopped at the airport, he said he was too excited for the price and quality he got and wanted to amaze his friends in his country..