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View Full Version : Any idea about 22-250 and .22 hornet caliber and rifles availability.



Tipu Sultan
13-11-2009, 12:00 AM
There has been a lot of discussion related to various types of ammos and their respective rifles. But I feel that 22-250 and .22 hornet are two of the calibers that still lack an indepth discussion. Btw 22-250 is considered to be an accurate caliber with very high velocities. 22-250 has a velocity of about 3000-4000 fps and effective range of about 250-300 yards, whereas .22 hornet has a velocity of around 2000-2800 fps. Both are considered to be a powerful version of .22's and are extremely powerful than .22lr cartridge. Guys in the west compare 22-250 with .222, .223 and .243 calibers.

I wanted to know if anybody here has a personal experience of using any of these two calibers and also whether their ammo and respective rifles are easily available in pakistan?Would they be considered pb or npb?
I would request our senior members and experts to throw some light on this topic.
Thanks in advance.

TAREEN
13-11-2009, 08:05 AM
Hope this thread catches @MUSTANIR's eyes. ;)

Tipu Sultan
13-11-2009, 05:36 PM
Dear Mustanir Bro, pls come forward and educate us about 22-250 and .22 hornet calibers. Here you are considered to be one of the experts in rifles. So we look forward to the contribution of our brother from multan. :cool:

Haider Shah
13-11-2009, 10:19 PM
Hornet rifles (STEVENS) and ammo were seen available at Quetta on some arms shop located on Jinah road few months ago any PG member from Quetta may be of some help.
In 2001 shot Geese with 22/250 having bipod owned by a notable of Sindh and found it very accurate, effective rifle however the availability of its ammo remained a sour point,the bullet grains itself tells you the story of its success. Regards

Tipu Sultan
14-11-2009, 12:25 AM
@ Haider Shah. Thank you Shah Sahib for adding your valuable insight. Yes actually 22-250 is generally considered to be very accurate with a flatter trajectory as your experience with goose hunting confirms it. But the real concern is what you mentioned as availability of ammo and I also doubt whether there are any large variety of rifles available in this caliber, in our part of the world to say.
Anyway which grain do you feel would be effective in taking down medium game like coyotes, wild hogs etc ? Also what was your brand of ammo?
I have heard people in the west to have even hunted deers with this round.

Tipu Sultan
14-11-2009, 12:34 AM
Please anybody come forward and tell us something about 22-250 or .22 hornet experience. If anybody knows about availability of the rifles and ammo related to these two calibers? Another notable query is; considering both of these rounds as part of .22 caliber series, shudnt we consider both of these calibers to be "npb" both at provincial and MOI level! :mad:

TAREEN
22-11-2009, 08:21 AM
I wish @MUSTANIR gets to see it this time......

Skeeter60
22-11-2009, 10:20 AM
22-250 is a popular cartridge. It started life as a wild cat in 1930's by handloaders by necking down 250 Savage cases to .224 and using .224 bullets from 40 gr to 70 gr bullets.
It is very accurate but also very sensitive to wind and can be used very accurately down to 300 yards, but on a windy day it is a different story.
It is strictly a varmint cartridge and I think one should not use it on animals bigger than the Chinkara antelope. I have known people to have shot hog dears and Urials with it and even wild boars but I would not recommend it.
The .22 Hornet is now an obsolescent cartridge and is only a little better than a .22 Magnum.
Both are NPB

clvt
22-11-2009, 12:51 PM
Your contributions on the 22-250 are correct, it is a high-velocity, accurate rifle-cartridge. I like it, and have used it from ground-squirrels in Canada over goats in New Zealand to one thar here.

What surprises me is the words about ammo. I have used predominantly handloads in my rifle (Sako), and wonder if the is no reloading carried out in Pakistan ?

It is true that the 22 Hornet is obsolete, allthough I still have one and enjoy shooting it. But The .222 & .223 come much closer to the 22-250 in performance.
Btw: What does pb / npb mean ?
Krgds, thar06.

AK47
22-11-2009, 03:31 PM
Your contributions on the 22-250 are correct, it is a high-velocity, accurate rifle-cartridge. I like it, and have used it from ground-squirrels in Canada over goats in New Zealand to one thar here.

What surprises me is the words about ammo. I have used predominantly handloads in my rifle (Sako), and wonder if the is no reloading carried out in Pakistan ?

It is true that the 22 Hornet is obsolete, allthough I still have one and enjoy shooting it. But The .222 & .223 come much closer to the 22-250 in performance.
Btw: What does pb / npb mean ?
Krgds, thar06. Nice to hear from you clvt, Sir, you been away for quite some time. Anyhow, no we don't have the "reloading" trend over here in our country, and thanks God we don't," plutonium" would perhaps have been even more scarce! As far as PB and NPB, well, it simple stands for "prohibited Bore" and "Non-prohibited Bore", respectively. Auto weapons are categorized in the PB sector, almost all other weapons and calibers in the NPB category. You need different licenses for both.

MUSTANIR
22-11-2009, 11:17 PM
I wanted to stay out of it till 22 Hornet was called obsolete,,, obsolete my brothers is a relative degree,,,,,,, for me it is still my love.
@Tipu brother I wont be able to mention statistics in decimals about it but I must tell you under 200m it has always been my first choice,,, I ve got a Brno it is damn accurate on a nice and quiet sunny day,,, availability of ammo is a big problem with all guns of finer quality,,, u can buy tons of AK 47 0r 7mm ration but come to 22-250,, 243,, 270,, there is famine or over charging.
Every gun is not for everyone,, like a girl you fall in love with one then you learn how to live with it along certain glitches,,, living experience is a must,,, guns are most of the times treated as tools,,, I strongly DISAGREE,,, guns are like your friends, you spend hours together,, living with and loving each other,, it is not another item it is your partner sharing the moments of joy,, triumph,, disappointment and repentance all as a whole,, how can you call a gun OBSOLETE without hurting someone.

Moeen
23-11-2009, 07:54 AM
@Mustanir - +1, well put. I looove the GF part. Though, now married I treat all my babes... as babes!

Skeeter60
23-11-2009, 08:26 AM
Dear ClVT
We do hand load in Pakistan but I think there are only about 15 or a few more people doing it.
The reason is non availability of components.

MUSTANIR
23-11-2009, 09:09 AM
@ Sk60,, sir can you throw some light on legality of hand-loading/reloading,,, cos somebody told me a couple of years ago that it is illegal in Pakistan,,, has the status changed or my informer was wrong.

Tipu Sultan
23-11-2009, 11:11 PM
Thanks everybody for contributions.
@Mustanir, skeeter60: Can you people tell me about availability of 22-250 and 22 hornet rifles somewhere in lahore region. From where can one buy such caliber rifles? Also the price ranges for both rifles and their respective ammos for 22-250 and 22 hornet calibers.
Also I what I have understood is that both these calibers are npb in all provinces of pakistan. Am I right, are they both NPB calibers all over pakistan?

TAREEN
24-11-2009, 07:58 AM
*

Skeeter60
24-11-2009, 12:06 PM
Well I just saw a BRNO Hornet for Rs 70000/ almost brand new, a gentleman was selling it. The bullets for the hornet are available at Baksh Illahi for around 220/- each.
The 22-250 is rare these days and I think it will be for anything between 125 to 200000/
Go for the 22-250, if you want a hornet you will lose nothing by buying a .22magnum and using Maxi Mag ammunition

Tipu Sultan
24-11-2009, 05:14 PM
@skeeter60, Thanks bro for the input. Does Baksh Elahi have hornet rifles with them. Also where can one find .22 magnum rifle? Whats the price for Maxi Mag ammo for .22 magnum?

Ahmad
25-11-2009, 03:25 PM
@ Tipu, i am intrested in selling my CZ brno .22 Hornet with two triggers (set trigger) in immucalte condition (all original i.e metal & wood both) with 80 fresh rounds for 75 K, kindly drop me a note at mashhood1@gmail.com if you are intrested.
cheers

Dr Hanif Malik
25-11-2009, 06:33 PM
oh janab what a price:)can you post picture if you dont mind///

Tipu Sultan
25-11-2009, 10:34 PM
@Ahmad. I have just sent you a message at your email address. Pls also mention whether or not K hornet 22 bullets can be chambered safely in it?

Tipu Sultan
25-11-2009, 10:41 PM
@Ahmad
Is V max ammo available for the 22 hornet easily?

Tipu Sultan
25-11-2009, 11:02 PM
What about availability of 22-250 rifles and ammo somewhere in Lahore?

MUSTANIR
26-11-2009, 08:15 AM
Tipu brother I saw a used 22-250 at Saleem Ali cople of months ago asking price was 135k,,, I think it was a Parker Hale,, bullets are available for 300+,, as for Hornet bullets are concerned there is not much of a choice,,, somebody told me that Para Bank Square has imported Hornet bullets and they might sell them @150+,,, made in Serbia.. lets see if it is true.

Ahmad
26-11-2009, 08:38 AM
@ Tipu, I have responded to your email, thanks for your interest. I have no idea about availability of Vmax ammo in our side of pond.

Tipu Sultan
26-11-2009, 04:26 PM
@Ahmad, Thanks for your email reply. After eid days I will be surveying the market for hornet ammo availability as well as search for 22-250, if any in Lahore . Hopefully that will help me make my mind for one of these.
@Mustanir, Thanks bro for your input. Where is saleem ali and what do you think is reason behind such a high prices for 22-250 rifles; i.e, even a used one around 135K :mad:
Could there be any low priced versions available in 22-250 with price levels below 100 K?
Are there any local made such rifles available? Does para or anybody else holds 22-250 in lahore?

MUSTANIR
27-11-2009, 11:01 PM
I m yet to lay my hands on a Darra made 22-250 or Hornet,, Skeeter60 can guide us better in this,,,, high price is for two reasons non-availability of non-famous or glamourous calibres,,,, and I think those who buy these weapons dont sell them easily... Salim Ali is on Mall road,, near Bux Elahi,, I think place is Dayal Singh Mansion.

Tipu Sultan
28-11-2009, 12:19 AM
@Mustanir, Thanks bro. Yeah you have mentioned valid reasons for high pricing of such calibers. Infact it would be very handy if one could get such calibers in local versions. I was already planning to visit Buksh Elahi and now its good that Salim Ali lies somewhere close to it so I will give them a visit too.

If anybody knows about local made or cheap versions of 22-250 or hornet rifles?

MUSTANIR
30-11-2009, 12:07 PM
Do visit and share your experience.

Tipu Sultan
07-12-2009, 11:46 PM
I did make a visit to both Buksh Elahi and Salim Ali at Dayal Singh Mansion. Both Buksh Elahi and Salim Ali people were totally convinced that 22-250 is a PB in punjab and thus cannot be sold or registered against npb licenses. They were not willing to share anything above that regarding 22-250 rifles and ammo. And about 22 hornet, Buksh Elahi confirmed its prices to be above 80, 90 K for its rifle. I also asked about shaheen SG and LG cartridges of which only SG was available with them. So therefore I merely ended up asking for DSA shooter pump action while eventually just racking it once or twice at Buksh Elahi Co. That was it for my brief visit.

BaderJanjua
23-12-2009, 02:22 PM
I own a BRNO 22x36 Hornet. I was given this Rifle back in 84 on Graduation by my parents and it belonged to my Grandfather. I love this rifle to date and have had some wonderful experience shooting with it. The ammo is available with PARA Arms and Buksh Elahi, though little on the higer side. I have shot wild boar, coyotes and some birds with it. The gun is very accurate and gave some wonderful results upto 300ms on the range with SAKO and Federal cartridges.

MUSTANIR
23-12-2009, 09:00 PM
@ Bader j..Brother can you quote the recent prices and availability of ammo at Lahore,, if so that would be very kind favor to an unknown friend.:/

HasanJamshad
23-12-2009, 09:05 PM
@Mustanir bhai, tomorrow i will quote the availability and price of .22hornet ammo in Lahore. As tomorrow i am going to the market for buying some ammo.

MUSTANIR
23-12-2009, 09:30 PM
@ Hassan bhai I shall be honored for this initiative of yours.:P

HasanJamshad
24-12-2009, 03:58 PM
Mustanir bhai as i promised. I cheked almost all major dealers(except Farhan) only HERA Arms have these bullets(Serbian) in stock. He was asking Rs. 250 a piece. Buksh Elahi was closed due to Muharram and he will open after 10 Muharram. Somebody told me that he has hornet ammo in stock too. Had he opend, his price would have been lower than the HERA.
Ahsan at PARA told me that his import has reached at the air port and ammo will be available within two weeks. He quoted a tentative price of Rs 200 a piece. He also told me that 22-250 ammo is also included in the same import.
Anything else sir :)

MUSTANIR
24-12-2009, 10:10 PM
Hasan bhai I m so very grateful to you for this act,, plz honor me if you think i can do anything for you in my capacity in Multan.:D