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SevenMagnum
27-10-2009, 05:44 PM
What about Baikal 9mm pistol opinion? Any personal experience?

Shariq
27-10-2009, 06:09 PM
Built like a tank, reliable, accurate and best trigger in its price range and beyond. Excellent value for money.
Lets see what experts have to say!!

SevenMagnum
27-10-2009, 06:12 PM
what should be the price of a good used one?

SevenMagnum
27-10-2009, 06:13 PM
01 model. They have a metal plate in the hnd grip for retaining the tension spring mechanism of the hammer.

Fahim
27-10-2009, 07:14 PM
12Gauge can give us an expert opinion. I believe he has one and loves it.!
Most of the senior members rank it very high for its ruggedness.!

SevenMagnum
27-10-2009, 07:16 PM
someone give me a brief review

MHMalik
27-10-2009, 07:19 PM
You should refer the the extensive thread on which this has already been discussed at length.. :)

I give it a thumbs up.

Dr Zakir
27-10-2009, 10:45 PM
It is good weapon and I am buying one ad soon ad my license arrive . It is accurate and has less recoil than a glock although it's finishing is not that good but I would choose it over all the Turkish chineese and Taurus and if glock is there I would most likely choose it or have them both

SevenMagnum
27-10-2009, 10:47 PM
@ Dr zakir

whats the difference between Baikal pistol made in 01 and the rest?

SevenMagnum
27-10-2009, 11:12 PM
http://s4.postimage.org/ZVeLJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

http://s4.postimage.org/ZVjL0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

http://s4.postimage.org/ZVoKi.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

12GAUGE
27-10-2009, 11:20 PM
What about Baikal 9mm pistol opinion? Any personal experience?


i'm assuming that we are talking about Baikal MP446 "Viking" handgun. well.......in its price range it is the best u can get. turkish/chinese/taurus dont even come close. if u look at its internal design u'll immediately see that its built to last and take some serious abuse. keeping its price range in view, it has the sweetest trigger, lowest recoil and best accuracy and superb grip.

Dr. Zakir once said to me that Baikal Viking is the russian equivalent of HK USP or SIG. to me, such a statement comming from Dr. Zakir is enough to qualify a handgun.

Regards.

SevenMagnum
27-10-2009, 11:31 PM
@12gauge

whats the difference between Baikal pistol made in 01 and the rest?

SevenMagnum
27-10-2009, 11:39 PM
what should be the price of a second hand gun about 95% condition and only two clips through it.

12GAUGE
27-10-2009, 11:41 PM
@12gauge

whats the difference between Baikal pistol made in 01 and the rest?


dude, to be honest cant say much cause i've seen a 01 however what I can tell u is that from 05 on wards few changes (only cosmetic) were incorporated into the said handgun. such as 18 round magazine, a slight bump at the end of hand grip to aid in magazine extraction and the accessory rail was extended. initially it was just a small slot due to which mounts had to screwed on. now since its extended, u can slide in mounts as well rather than having to fully open the mounts and screw them on.

other than that, I cant tell ya much. but why this interest in 01 model ?

Regards.

SevenMagnum
27-10-2009, 11:45 PM
there are changes

SevenMagnum
27-10-2009, 11:51 PM
01 YEAR MODEL
reemove the mag and look into the mag well there is a yellow metal plate to retain the hammer tension spring. On the chamber portion visible from the top has more metal.
http://s4.postimage.org/10fdeJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)
http://s4.postimage.org/10rd10.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)


Though i know that this picture is of the military version of mp 446 known as Yarygin PYa / MP-443 "Grach" but except for the polymer frame there is no difference between 01 year model of MP 446 and this.

Here are 01 YEAR MODEL BAIKAL MP-446 PICTURES. (I purcahsed it today.)

http://s4.postimage.org/1d9BMA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1d9BMA)

http://s4.postimage.org/1d9Jg0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1d9Jg0)

http://s4.postimage.org/1d9QKr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1d9QKr)

http://s4.postimage.org/1d9mOJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1d9mOJ)


OTHER THAN 01
The metal plate in mag well is not there. The chamber portion visible in the slide has less metal due to a cut and recession on the chamber portion of the barrel.

http://s4.postimage.org/10faKA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)
http://s4.postimage.org/10stQA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

Dr Zakir
28-10-2009, 12:16 AM
i dont know just fired 12 gauges baikal at range 100 rounds or so and really loved it

SevenMagnum
28-10-2009, 02:15 AM
late 1990s Russian army settled on the improved version of the worlds' most popular 9mm Luger/Parabellum round, very hot loaded (peak pressure generated by 7N21 is well beyond 9mm +P standards) and fitted with armour piercing bullet with hardened steel core. Several designs were submitted to the trials, but eventual winner was the pistol, designed at the state Izhevsk Mechanical Plant by the Vladimir Yarygin. This pistol, initially known as the 6P35 (military index during trials) or as MP-443 "Grach" (manufacturer's designation), now is officially adopted by the Russian Government for Military and Law Enforcement use under the PYa designation.

As 01 year model of MP446 is direct copy of the MP443 (military version) AND KEEPING IN VIEW THE ABOVE PRESSURE LEVELS, and modifications made to exterior dimensions of the chamber of the later models other than 01 year model. 01 YEAR MODEL LOOKS TO BE MORE SAFER THAN THE REST.

The low recoil reason of the gun is because we use normal factory loads in the gun which is designed for higher pressure catridges.

Hence proved that 01 YEAR MODEL is abit better techanicaly than the newer models because their chambers have more metal than the rest. So as the hammer spring retention plate is present in 01 YEAR MODEL and is not there in rest of the models.

So my bet goes on BAIKAL MP 446 01 YEAR of manufacture model.

**These are my personal findings and little research.

12GAUGE
28-10-2009, 07:31 AM
@SevenMagnum

Good job bro and I must say keen observation as well. on a side note, is 01 model Viking available?

Regards.

Ahmad
28-10-2009, 09:33 AM
russian hand guns are very under rated here for un known reasons, they are simply value for the money as previously said.

SevenMagnum
28-10-2009, 10:21 AM
Yes availabe. Thanks for the comments 12 gauge.

Adeel Ahmad
28-10-2009, 12:04 PM
Except for the looks department, this is one of the best Hand Guns out there. I was advised highly by Ahmad Bhai to buy it but i dont like its appearance. When did Russian weapons have good looks, i guess never.

Magnum
28-10-2009, 03:57 PM
Built like a tank, reliable, accurate and best trigger in its price range and beyond. Excellent value for money.
Lets see what experts have to say!!

Well since i own this gun i completely agree to the above mentioned statement.
This gun simply means bussiness

Abu Al Hawl
28-10-2009, 04:14 PM
kash it had finish like cz999, in looks and external built its very much poor its external built like the frame is not scratch proof, where as cz999's frame is having almost the same tenifer as glock's

12GAUGE
28-10-2009, 04:22 PM
kash it had finish like cz999, in looks and external built its very much poor its external built like the frame is not scratch proof, where as cz999's frame is having almost the same tenifer as glock's


Sir, is ur CZ999 "scorpion" tenifer finished?

Regards.

Enigmatic Desires
28-10-2009, 11:44 PM
I say can any 1 enlighten me as to why there are grooves on the polymer viking and not on the military version?

SevenMagnum
28-10-2009, 11:53 PM
Coz in commercial market the application of groves are there to greater extent than military, as use of light and lasers are there but for russian military, using lights is not a real big option.

SAJJAD ALI
29-10-2009, 01:57 AM
http://s3.postimage.org/1rkxh0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1rkxh0)

Glockcohlic
29-10-2009, 12:18 PM
The discussion here and some gud reviews of the fellow members hv made me to put Baikal Viking in my wish list.

SevenMagnum
30-10-2009, 12:25 AM
01 YEAR MODEL
reemove the mag and look into the mag well there is a yellow metal plate to retain the hammer tension spring. On the chamber portion visible from the top has more metal.
http://s4.postimage.org/10fdeJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)
http://s4.postimage.org/10rd10.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)


Though i know that this picture is of the military version of mp 446 known as Yarygin PYa / MP-443 "Grach" but except for the polymer frame there is no difference between 01 year model of MP 446 and this.

OTHER THAN 01
The metal plate in mag well is not there. The chamber portion visible in the slide has less metal due to a cut and recession on the chamber portion of the barrel.

http://s4.postimage.org/10faKA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)
http://s4.postimage.org/10stQA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)


here are some pictures of my gun



http://s3.postimage.org/1xYvW9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1xYvW9)

http://s3.postimage.org/1xYAVr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1xYAVr)

http://s3.postimage.org/1xYFUJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1xYFUJ)

SevenMagnum
30-10-2009, 12:28 AM
One can see the difference i mentioned.
http://s3.postimage.org/1xZdPJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1xZdPJ)

http://s3.postimage.org/1xZqir.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1xZqir)

http://s3.postimage.org/1xZxMS.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1xZxMS)

http://s3.postimage.org/1xZCM9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1xZCM9)

Enigmatic Desires
30-10-2009, 12:34 AM
Hmmm.. But the groves are not the more common picattiny or weaver types... If memory serves me right they seem like the grooves on the CF 98

SevenMagnum
30-10-2009, 12:39 AM
yes they are like HK, CF SORT OF accessory groves.

Dr Zakir
30-10-2009, 12:40 AM
i think the top pistol being reffered as model 01 is Pya / MP 443 and the second one is MP 446. MP446 being an export version while first the orginal side arms . there is obvious difference in grip shape also

SevenMagnum
30-10-2009, 12:52 AM
01 YEAR MODEL
reemove the mag and look into the mag well there is a yellow metal plate to retain the hammer tension spring. On the chamber portion visible from the top has more metal.
http://s4.postimage.org/10fdeJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)
http://s4.postimage.org/10rd10.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)


Though i know that this picture is of the military version of mp 446 known as Yarygin PYa / MP-443 "Grach" but except for the polymer frame there is no difference between 01 year model of MP 446 and this.

Here are 01 YEAR MODEL BAIKAL MP-446 PICTURES. (I purchased it today.)

http://s4.postimage.org/1d9BMA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1d9BMA)

http://s4.postimage.org/1d9Jg0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1d9Jg0)

http://s4.postimage.org/1d9QKr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1d9QKr)

http://s4.postimage.org/1d9mOJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1d9mOJ)

http://s4.postimage.org/1dcxm9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1dcxm9)


OTHER THAN 01
The metal plate in mag well is not there. The chamber portion visible in the slide has less metal due to a cut and recession on the chamber portion of the barrel.

http://s4.postimage.org/10faKA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)
http://s4.postimage.org/10stQA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

UPDATED the POST.

KageFox
30-10-2009, 12:58 AM
Have yet to see an accessory light/ laser built for this kind of mount (the one used on CF98, Viking)...

SevenMagnum
30-10-2009, 01:05 AM
i think as for HK USP company rail does not accepts normal light/laser mount to be mounted on, there is an adopter rail which enables the NORMAL LIGHT AND LASERS to be attached to it beside some companies manufacture specifically lights and lasers for HK USP.
Now in HK 45 (new model) The rail have been changed to normal rail.
I think a certain rail adopter system would be required for viking and cf to enable it to be equiped with lights and lasers.
Might be possible that russia and china make their own light laser systems for these gun which we have yet to see.

Enigmatic Desires
30-10-2009, 01:06 AM
They must make em.. If the rails are there. even if they do look quite unusual..

Unfortunately most of the lasers/lights available here cannot be mounted on these rails.. In fact I dont even know what they are called

Dr Zakir
30-10-2009, 01:20 AM
sir ji were did u get the 01 model and for how much

12GAUGE
30-10-2009, 01:24 AM
basically they are called plain (HK type) rails (not picatinny rails). their advantage is that they can be converted into any type of rail (depending upon the need) by using an adaptor. similary mounts are also available to attach accessories to the handgun without using any adapter.

here are few images:

this one converts rail into a picatinny rail
http://s3.postimage.org/1yi3ui.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

picatinny rail mounted flash light on rail-picatinny adapter
http://s4.postimage.org/1dniP0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

laser mounted on the handgun using direct rail mount
http://s4.postimage.org/1dnFgi.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)


Regards.

SevenMagnum
30-10-2009, 01:28 AM
basically they are called plain (HK type) rails (not picatinny rails). their advantage is that they can be converted into any type of rail (depending upon the need) by using an adaptor. similary mounts are also available to attach accessories to the handgun without using any adapter.

here are few images:

this one converts rail into a picatinny rail
http://s3.postimage.org/1yi3ui.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

picatinny rail mounted flash light on rail-picatinny adapter
http://s4.postimage.org/1dniP0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

laser mounted on the handgun using direct rail mount
http://s4.postimage.org/1dnFgi.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)


Regards.

LOOK WHAT I TOLD YOU FOLKS. 12 gauge has proved it with pictures.

SevenMagnum
30-10-2009, 01:31 AM
@Dr. Zakir

Tough abit difficult to find but Its a normal import gun. I got it from a chap who wanted to sell becaus he cannot carry it concelled. 34 shots fired through it plus two weeks of carry in a holster. I got it for 53k.

Zahid Hussain
30-10-2009, 01:38 AM
I've been informed that these ones are available in Quetta at the price tag of 60k.

What about Baikal 9mm pistol opinion? Any personal experience?


i'm assuming that we are talking about Baikal MP446 "Viking" handgun. well.......in its price range it is the best u can get. turkish/chinese/taurus dont even come close. if u look at its internal design u'll immediately see that its built to last and take some serious abuse. keeping its price range in view, it has the sweetest trigger, lowest recoil and best accuracy and superb grip.

Dr. Zakir once said to me that Baikal Viking is the russian equivalent of HK USP or SIG. to me, such a statement comming from Dr. Zakir is enough to qualify a handgun.

Regards.

Enigmatic Desires
30-10-2009, 01:43 AM
So basically 12 gauge.. these things are rails 'for' rails..
The question arises. how to get hold of rail rails.. that we can subsequently mount our favorite gadgets on..

12GAUGE
30-10-2009, 01:52 AM
So basically 12 gauge.. these things are rails 'for' rails..
The question arises. how to get hold of rail rails.. that we can subsequently mount our favorite gadgets on..

its on my TO FIND list. right after CHUBAKABRA, YETI and UFO. :)

In Pakistan the way things are, I'm thinking i'll have more luck finding the top three.

Regards.

Enigmatic Desires
30-10-2009, 01:57 AM
So basically 12 gauge.. these things are rails 'for' rails..
The question arises. how to get hold of rail rails.. that we can subsequently mount our favorite gadgets on..

its on my TO FIND list. right after CHUBAKABRA, YETI and UFO. :)

In Pakistan the way things are, I'm thinking i'll have more luck finding the top three.

Regards.


I had much the name problem last year with magazine loaders. Most dealers in Karachi including fairly prominent ones had not even heard of em..

This year they actually are available.. The huge glut of CF 98s without rail rails would make sure they eventually reach our shores.. I have yet to c a CF owner who does not look at his weapon's rails with longing..

P.S Did I ever tell u I saw a UFO hovering outside my bedroom.. It threw lightning bolts at me from a clear black sky..

(Honest injun)

Malik1
31-10-2009, 11:21 PM
Indeed informative. My doubts are clear about Baikal. Hopefully it will be the next buy

SevenMagnum
02-11-2009, 12:32 AM
HAPPY BUy.

SevenMagnum
02-11-2009, 01:09 AM
I am in need of Baikal Vking MP-446 spare magzines. (17rounds or 18 rounds)

SevenMagnum
02-11-2009, 08:37 PM
I am in need of Baikal Vking MP-446 spare magzines where i can find them. (17rounds or 18 rounds).

12GAUGE
02-11-2009, 09:17 PM
I am in need of Baikal Vking MP-446 spare magzines. (17rounds or 18 rounds)


so? ;)

Regards.

SevenMagnum
02-11-2009, 09:29 PM
WHERE TO find them?

SevenMagnum
02-11-2009, 09:31 PM
I am in need of Baikal Viking MP-446 spare magzines where i can find them. (17rounds or 18 rounds).

SevenMagnum
03-11-2009, 12:30 PM
COME ON FOLKS SOMEONE GIVE ME HINTS.

I am in need of Baikal Viking MP-446 spare magzines where i can find them. (17rounds or 18 rounds).

Abu Al Hawl
03-11-2009, 12:56 PM
MAKRO se mil jai ga yar :lol:

Zubair
03-11-2009, 12:59 PM
COME ON FOLKS SOMEONE GIVE ME HINTS.

I am in need of Baikal Viking MP-446 spare magzines where i can find them. (17rounds or 18 rounds).

Bought mine from ORIENT in LAHORE. Price is around 4~5K each

Malik1
03-11-2009, 08:03 PM
HAPPY BUy.

Many thanks bro. I am not stealing your thread but I,m also looking for extra magzines for Couger Stoeger. Where can I buy them from?

SevenMagnum
04-11-2009, 09:50 AM
@malik1
MEMBER NAVEED HAD Bought 2 extra Magzine For stoeger cougar 15 rounds @ 5000 and 19 rounds @6000
from Baksh Ellahi lahore.

Enigmatic Desires
04-11-2009, 04:46 PM
@malik1
MEMBER NAVEED HAD Bought 2 extra Magzine For stoeger cougar 15 rounds @ 5000 and 19 rounds @6000
from Baksh Ellahi lahore.


I had no idea cougher's 19 rounders were available

SevenMagnum
04-11-2009, 06:28 PM
@Enigmatic Desires
member NAVEED_PK is the man to ask about the purcahse coz he has written that. i am not sure about 19 round mags for couger. here is the link to his written script

(1) http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=779&p=42

(2) PakGuns.Com Club House What have you bought today?

Enigmatic Desires
04-11-2009, 09:03 PM
Hmm I could'nt find any .. Though Kanuni extended mags are available

SevenMagnum
06-11-2009, 12:15 AM
baikal mp-446 barrel is chrome lined or not?

PsiFactor
11-11-2009, 11:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ8taAke8Gs


I love this Gun.

Wijjdan
12-11-2009, 03:23 PM
Assalmaolaikum
can one plz tell me the link for practical field stripping of the MP 446, bcz i checked the manual . it does not have detials of field stripping

Naveed_pk
12-11-2009, 03:46 PM
@Enigmatic Desires
member NAVEED_PK is the man to ask about the purcahse coz he has written that. i am not sure about 19 round mags for couger. here is the link to his written script

(1) http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=779&p=42

(2) PakGuns.Com Club House What have you bought today?


@Ed bro...Yes it is available 19 rounds mag for Stoeger cougar....If u need let me know...i will arrange it... :)

Vik
12-11-2009, 04:46 PM
Assalmaolaikum
can one plz tell me the link for practical field stripping of the MP 446, bcz i checked the manual . it does not have detials of field stripping

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxnsTsnZe3g

It's an 8 minute video on Youtube in Russian language. Start watching at 7min for field stripping.

zeeair
07-12-2009, 04:18 AM
Brothers, My mind is stuck between stoeger cougar and Viking. A friend told me that Viking is not reliable. Once u drop it chances are that it malfunctions. Whereas he arranged a stoeger cougar for me for about Rs.48000. Is there any sort of problem with Viking?

Malik1
07-12-2009, 07:01 AM
At least I,ve not heard of any member complaining about Viking. It is a very reliable and highly rated 9mm and I,m planning to buy a Viking. Having said that, let me assure you that you will never repent buying a Stoeger Couger. Its out of experience and not verbosity.

Dr Zakir
07-12-2009, 02:28 PM
between both guns it would be a matter of personal choice . finish wise cougar wins all the way . a good comparision between these two and cz 999 has already been made in a thread kindly search it