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12GAUGE
04-10-2009, 08:13 PM
AoA Everybody.

After Pakguns Cleaner and Pakguns Lubricant (improved version), it is only befitting that a copper solvent should follow suit.

Ammonia has been the chemical of choice for removing copper from barrels for over 100 years. There is no detrimental affect from using an ammonia based solution providing it is thoroughly removed before the firearm is stored. having said that here is a recipe of a simple homemade copper solvent which I've sucessfully used on multiple barrels before posting here.

Pakguns Copper Solvent:

1. 2 part ammonia solution (easily available at chemical/scientific stores)
2. 1 part dish washing liquid soap (preferabbly lemon scented, otherwise the smell of ammonia will blow out ur sinuses right off ur face)

Mixing Instruction:

mixed out doors as the smell of ammonia is absolutely horrible. now from ammonia solution I do not mean industrial strength ammonia solution which is 32-35% ammonia concentration, I meant janitor ammonia solution. just ask for plain bulk ammonia solution which the chemical/scientific stores supplies in quantity of choice. price: approx 30-40rupees per 250ml bottle. Industrial strength is only available in fixed packeging and with a price tag of around 2K-3K rupees.

Directions for use:

first clean the barrel of any powder/carbon fouling then wet a piece of cloth with the Pakguns Copper Solvent and run it through the bore, let is sit for five minutes and run a clean piece of cloth through the bore. Repeat if necessary. after cleaning, wash the barrel with tap water to remove any traces of ammonia left in the bore. dry the barrel, remove any traces of water and lubricate with gun oil.

Do give it try, ur barrels will come out nice and clean, as if never used. they say removing copper fouling increases accuracy. not to me, cause i'm a bad shot to begin with. :)

Regards.

Denovo87
04-10-2009, 08:32 PM
Very welldone 12gauge, one thing, is this solvent safe for chromed barrels?

12GAUGE
04-10-2009, 08:59 PM
Very welldone 12gauge, one thing, is this solvent safe for chromed barrels?


Yes Sir, the solvent is absolutely safe on chromed barrels provided that u do not leave it in the bore for hours at a time and provided that u completely take it off before storing the firearm. the best way to remove any residual ammonia is throughly rinsing the barrel bore with running tap water. afterwards just completely dry the bore and oil it up normally before storing.

Regards.

p.s. if a person is realy finiky about using water bath then that person can always use/apply kerosene or WD40 after water bath just to displace any water molecules left in the bore. but I feel that this step realy isnt necessary since any good quality gun oil is already a water displacer.

Denovo87
04-10-2009, 09:02 PM
Thanks 12gauge....

Abbas
04-10-2009, 09:20 PM
Way to go 12 G ! http://www.postimage.org/templates/images/smiley/agreement/2.gif (http://www.postimage.org/)

Shariq
04-10-2009, 09:35 PM
12gauge Bro
I am big fan of your formulas. I have a question. Is this solvent only for shotguns / rifles or can it be used for pistols also ?

Nabeel
04-10-2009, 09:41 PM
@ Sqnldr_Shariq

Sir I think 12gauge is talking about solvent for pistols because pistol bullets are copper jacketed whereas 12 gauge cartridges contains lead or steel pellets

Ka_Khan
04-10-2009, 09:56 PM
Excellent !!
I am sure in future Gtg's we will be getting your cleaners also.

Denovo87
04-10-2009, 09:59 PM
@ Sqnldr_Shariq

Sir I think 12gauge is talking about solvent for pistols because pistol bullets are copper jacketed whereas 12 gauge cartridges contains lead or steel pellets

correct, for rifles, revolvers & pistols. beside lead or steel pallets shotguns are smooth bore so no coper or other messy buildup.
coper tends to settle in grooves with extensive weapon use, so need to be removed with a solvent which can desolve n remove it completely.

12GAUGE
04-10-2009, 10:04 PM
12gauge Bro
I am big fan of your formulas. I have a question. Is this solvent only for shotguns / rifles or can it be used for pistols also ?


sir this formula fortunately is not for shotguns as shotguns dont suffer from copper fouling, however handguns and rifles do because of the copper jacketed bullets and rifling.

Regards.

Shariq
04-10-2009, 10:07 PM
Thanks all for the update.

12GAUGE
04-10-2009, 10:08 PM
you are most welcome gentlemen. one is obliged to be at service.

Regards.

KageFox
04-10-2009, 10:28 PM
Another wonderful formula by our very own 12Gauge! :D Nice work sir...

Glocky
04-10-2009, 10:39 PM
Dear 12 gauge,

While all your past contributions have been without doubt useful and correct. i have a few reservations on using an ammonia based cleaner for gun barrels. Ammonia is known for attacking steel, i agree the concentration is very crucial for this to happen but when buying from a store in loose packaging its still a little risky and doubtful as to the concentrate level. Though you have clearly warned to ensure cleaning the barrel from any traces, i feel it is pertinent to point out the dangers of not being careful otherwise someone could ruin a perfectly good weapon by being a little casual with its use.

Hope you don't mind the warning, its not meant to criticize your efforts but some source for this formula would also be nice to authenticate the formula.

Again please do not be discouraged or disappointed, its just a concern.

regards

12GAUGE
05-10-2009, 01:43 AM
Dear 12 gauge,

While all your past contributions have been without doubt useful and correct. i have a few reservations on using an ammonia based cleaner for gun barrels. Ammonia is known for attacking steel, i agree the concentration is very crucial for this to happen but when buying from a store in loose packaging its still a little risky and doubtful as to the concentrate level. Though you have clearly warned to ensure cleaning the barrel from any traces, i feel it is pertinent to point out the dangers of not being careful otherwise someone could ruin a perfectly good weapon by being a little casual with its use.

Hope you don't mind the warning, its not meant to criticize your efforts but some source for this formula would also be nice to authenticate the formula.

Again please do not be discouraged or disappointed, its just a concern.

regards

Bro, why would I ever mind anything that u say. I totally understand and fully appreciate constructive critisizm. Kindly allow me to clear your concerns.

1. Ammonia doesnt actually attack steel/iron as its PH is too low to cause any harm.

2. Ammonia does however promote rust on metal as it is severely hygroscopic (absorbs moisture), therefore its absolutely necessary to totally remove any residual ammonia solution from the bore. if u read "directions" u'll see that i've insisted on washing the barrel afterwards with running tap water, since ammonia is highly soluble in water (ammonia solution ;) ), washing it with water (even momentarily) will totally remove any traces of it.

3. As far as quoting sources is concerned, Sir its public knowledge/Information and with public knowledge, citing sources is not necessary. how its public knowledge, well......, ammonia is being used to clean copper fouling from barrels for over hundred years. infact if u google it u'll find many homemade recipes (such as this one but with slight differences) using ammonia solutions in similar concentrations.

4. as far as testing is concerned, kindly contact Dr. Zakir he'll concur that I tested the solution on his barrel (and many of friends barrels) before posting. infact, a test barrel (7.62 TT) was soaked in straight ammonia solution for more than 10 hours just to see if it causes any harm. only after seeing satisfactory results I posted it here.

5. as far as buying from a lose packing is concerned, remember I insisted on buying from lose packing as 1. lower ammonia content in the ammonia solution 2. only janitor's ammonia solution is available in lose packing as industrial grade ammonia is very expensive and only available in fixed properly sealed packing of 1-2.5 litres. one more thing: even the janitors ammonia that i've used is diluted with liquid dish washing soap.

I hope it addresses any of your concerns. I do however appreciate everyone of them.

Regards.

ay_be_why
05-10-2009, 01:09 PM
I request mods to make 12Gauge's threads about the PakGuns Cleaner/Lube/Copper-Solvent sticky in the firearm maintenance forums, for quick and easy access. It would also be a token of appreciation, on behalf of the forum, for his knowledge and his willingness to share it with fellow members.

Denovo87
05-10-2009, 01:25 PM
I request mods to make 12Gauge's threads about the PakGuns Cleaner/Lube/Copper-Solvent sticky in the firearm maintenance forums, for quick and easy access. It would also be a token of appreciation, on behalf of the forum, for his knowledge and his willingness to share it with fellow members.

Good idea, I second ABY.

Dr Zakir
05-10-2009, 01:51 PM
our ALCHEMIST has done it again i had it tested on my glock . i have fired about 300 rounds from this one . after cleaning carbon with hopes solvent i checked the barrel there was definite reddish tinge at at the end of the barrel . then we went ahead with the cleaning , the reddish tinge was removed and the rifling become distinct and clear much then before .
another experiment turned successful . and consider the cost u save if u purchase an imported one i would say very successful

iiqbal
05-10-2009, 04:18 PM
@12gauge, Nice information , i think its time to write Book to organize the information you have spread on this forum

12GAUGE
05-10-2009, 11:28 PM
@All

one is obliged to at service and totally appreciate the kind words.

Regards.

Zaier Raza
07-10-2009, 08:37 PM
hello every body,
I have a shot gun with black synthetic color, tiny rust spots appeared outside the barrel of my shot,will you please tell me ,how can i remove that rust spots without damaging its color and finishing.I tried to remove them by using WD40 Spray but nothing happened.Please,I request to expert panel to answer.Thank you

Conceal Carry
09-10-2009, 11:59 PM
very nice 12g.

A word of caution:
Do NOT use this or any other chemical solution inside the house, always use in open airy spaces.
KEEP AWAY FROM CHILDREN.
Store away from children and living areas (in case a leakeage happens...)

Zubair
10-10-2009, 12:34 AM
@All

one is obliged to at service and totally appreciate the kind words.

Regards.

If you have made this. The would like to borrow a small qty at the GTG

12GAUGE
10-10-2009, 12:41 AM
If you have made this. The would like to borrow a small qty at the GTG

"if you have made this" hmm....... lemme guess, ur thinking that I havent made this :)

but why am I taking this so lightly, shouldnt i be offended with such an assumption ;)
and hold your horses :) what makes u think that I need to convince u otherwise ;)
kindly drop the attitude. its a free country. Neither I am bound into any servitude nor subjected to any service that makes it a must for me to convince you. :cool:

as far as bringing the small quantity that u've requested, Yes! ur highness, I shall bring a small quantity with me to prove (not a mandatory service, just a friendly gesture) to ur excellency that I have "made this". I shall consider ur wish as my command (again! not a penal servitude at my end nor its ur right/claim) wait a second! WHO DIED AND MADE U KING? hahahahahahahahahaha

Regards.

p.s. next time try to be a little more cautious and curtious with the choice of words. I know u didnt mean anything wrong. and I am just yanking ur chains. Thats what buddies do. :D

that is if ur highness would like to befriend with a commoner such as myself? ;)

Denovo87
10-10-2009, 09:43 AM
@12gauge, I am sure Zubair723 is saying "if you made it commercially or in bulk" :)

Zubair
10-10-2009, 10:57 AM
Denovo87 , thanks for understanding few simple & informal words.

12guage.....Sorry & my apologies for making a simple request. Dont require this solvent anymore & sorry once again for hurting your senstivities. And also dropping the 'plan' to attend the GTG tomorrow as would not be able to bear another FIR & allegation, that my 'mere & insignificant' presence has clogged all the 'barrel' and even all the supply of PAKGUNS solvent, lubricant & copper solvent has failed

Denovo87
10-10-2009, 11:48 AM
zubair723 come on bro, 12gauge didnot mean what you understood, he just wrote these words in light mood.
donot cancell you GTG plan please, we all be waiting you there

Conceal Carry
11-10-2009, 01:24 AM
chill out man, he's just pullin your leg;)

khakiMB
14-10-2009, 11:55 AM
Nice one! I shall try the formula when required.

KMB

Zahid Hussain
29-10-2009, 09:53 PM
Thankx man but I want to know that after using P.G copper solvent was there any traces of blue stains on your paches because the blue colour indicates that the ammonia has really done its job??&please tell me is this solvent ok for chrome lined barrels???:D

AoA Everybody.

After Pakguns Cleaner and Pakguns Lubricant (improved version), it is only befitting that a copper solvent should follow suit.

Ammonia has been the chemical of choice for removing copper from barrels for over 100 years. There is no detrimental affect from using an ammonia based solution providing it is thoroughly removed before the firearm is stored. having said that here is a recipe of a simple homemade copper solvent which I've sucessfully used on multiple barrels before posting here.

Pakguns Copper Solvent:

1. 2 part ammonia solution (easily available at chemical/scientific stores)
2. 1 part dish washing liquid soap (preferabbly lemon scented, otherwise the smell of ammonia will blow out ur sinuses right off ur face)

Mixing Instruction:

mixed out doors as the smell of ammonia is absolutely horrible. now from ammonia solution I do not mean industrial strength ammonia solution which is 32-35% ammonia concentration, I meant janitor ammonia solution. just ask for plain bulk ammonia solution which the chemical/scientific stores supplies in quantity of choice. price: approx 30-40rupees per 250ml bottle. Industrial strength is only available in fixed packeging and with a price tag of around 2K-3K rupees.

Directions for use:

first clean the barrel of any powder/carbon fouling then wet a piece of cloth with the Pakguns Copper Solvent and run it through the bore, let is sit for five minutes and run a clean piece of cloth through the bore. Repeat if necessary. after cleaning, wash the barrel with tap water to remove any traces of ammonia left in the bore. dry the barrel, remove any traces of water and lubricate with gun oil.

Do give it try, ur barrels will come out nice and clean, as if never used. they say removing copper fouling increases accuracy. not to me, cause i'm a bad shot to begin with. :)

Regards.

12GAUGE
30-10-2009, 12:08 AM
Thankx man but I want to know that after using P.G copper solvent was there any traces of blue stains on your paches because the blue colour indicates that the ammonia has really done its job??&please tell me is this solvent ok for chrome lined barrels???:D


well.....the stains that u get on the patches look more like bluish-greenish, like sea weed color. and yes! it leaves lots of it provided that ur barrel is heavily copper fouled.

as far as it being safe on chromed barrels, in my experience, its totally safe on chromed barrels. however it is not advised to leave it in there for an extended period (as in hours at a time or overnight). a short exposure (upto an hour max) will not harm the chrome lining. just remember to flush the barrel afterwards with running tap water to remove any residual ammonia from the bore.

Regards.

SevenMagnum
30-10-2009, 12:10 AM
12 gauage visit my post of BAIKAL MP-446

Zahid Hussain
30-10-2009, 09:44 PM
thankx for how much time should I leave the solvent in the barrel for a good cleaning of copper &i've seen some slight copper coloured stains in the rifling of my barrel is it just fouled or badly fouled??did you ever useonly the ammonia solution without mixing it with the dish washing liquid??

Thankx man but I want to know that after using P.G copper solvent was there any traces of blue stains on your paches because the blue colour indicates that the ammonia has really done its job??&please tell me is this solvent ok for chrome lined barrels???:D


well.....the stains that u get on the patches look more like bluish-greenish, like sea weed color. and yes! it leaves lots of it provided that ur barrel is heavily copper fouled.

as far as it being safe on chromed barrels, in my experience, its totally safe on chromed barrels. however it is not advised to leave it in there for an extended period (as in hours at a time or overnight). a short exposure (upto an hour max) will not harm the chrome lining. just remember to flush the barrel afterwards with running tap water to remove any residual ammonia from the bore.

Regards.

12GAUGE
31-10-2009, 12:11 AM
thankx for how much time should I leave the solvent in the barrel for a good cleaning of copper &i've seen some slight copper coloured stains in the rifling of my barrel is it just fouled or badly fouled??did you ever useonly the ammonia solution without mixing it with the dish washing liquid??

try plugging one end of the barrel and fill the bore up with copper cleaner. leave it in there for 20 minutes then scrub the bore with either nylon brush or a cleaning rod outfitted with a cotton patch. see if the bore still shows signs of copper residue, if it still does repeat the whole once more. nylon brush works better.

as far as using straight ammonia solution is concerned, well... two things....... one being the smell of ammonia is absolutely horrible. it wont harm u but it smells like rotten eggs and totally stinks up the whole area. second being that it adds washing capability to the solution. other than that there is no need for dish washing soap. u can use straight ammonia solution, no problem. just make sure that its not industrial strength ammonia solution.

Regards.

Zahid Hussain
14-11-2009, 07:49 PM
Salam today I went to the chemical store for ammonia,I got a 250ml bottle but the ammonia is 33% can I use it to make P.G copper solvent??What do you suggest??.

12GAUGE
14-11-2009, 09:42 PM
Salam today I went to the chemical store for ammonia,I got a 250ml bottle but the ammonia is 33% can I use it to make P.G copper solvent??What do you suggest??.

well....... 33 percent is industrial strength and u have to tone it down a bit. just add equal amount of water in it to lower the ammonia content then u can make the P.G. copper solvent out of it.

Regards.