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View Full Version : Yarygin PYa / MP-443 "Grach"



Mohammad
28-08-2009, 02:41 PM
few days back i went to an arms dealer to buy baikal viking mp446 for my cousin. It was priced 66000. The guy there told me that if i am not interested in the viking model, they had local Yargin grach there available with them (the steel frame model adopted by russian army). It was cheap comparable to viking. It was for 58 thousand. Reason was that viking was an export model while grach was local. I want to ask the you guys (especially 12guage who has alot experience in baikal) that is yargin grach better than the viking bcuz yargin grach can handle 7n21 +P+ russian armor piercing ammo meaning that it can sustain more hot round than viking. What do you guys say

Zubair
28-08-2009, 02:55 PM
Have not seen YARYGYIN around. But if I am at your place, will buy this upfront. THis is RUSSIAN ARMY SERVICE PISTOL. Also please ask if they have extra magazines for these VIKING/YARYGIN models and the what about the AUTO-SWITCHES for them. Well 7n21 +p+ is available???

12GAUGE
28-08-2009, 04:08 PM
first of all, i've read the viking manual, its the same as Grach (except polymer frame), therefore all specifications are same. the Viking is also rated safe for 7n21 which is +p++ round.

second, same proofing marks are stamped on the Baikal's Viking and Baikal's Grach. so i dont see any difference in the two pistols, and their ability to withstand hotter rounds.

third, 72n1 is not available in Pakistan so this feature no matter how tempting is utterly useless.

fourth, if ur in the market for a Baikal product, then I would recommend that u buy VIKING as its much lighter than its Steel counterpart, its less prune to rust, and less copy-able buy the local handgun manufacturers.

Regards.

Mohammad
28-08-2009, 09:42 PM
actually these are the pics of viking kabooms on handguns section. idobt know what happened but baikal viking seems to be substandard or so. Still think Grach is best because of steel frame. The question arises, if viking can sustain +p+ 9mm rounds like grach, why did it blow??

Mohammad
28-08-2009, 09:43 PM
plus do the have supported or unsupported chamber?

12GAUGE
28-08-2009, 11:35 PM
actually these are the pics of viking kabooms on handguns section. idobt know what happened but baikal viking seems to be substandard or so. Still think Grach is best because of steel frame. The question arises, if viking can sustain +p+ 9mm rounds like grach, why did it blow??


yes sir, there are kaboom pic of vikings on this forum but then again there are kaboom pictures of glocks everywhere on the internet, heck there are kaboom videos of Sig on the youtube. infact you could probably find kaboom pic/videos of almost every major brand.

reasons could be anything from out of battery fire to cheap reloaded ammo or surplus cheap quality military ammo.

if glock with alotta stories of kabooms is still considered the most reliable and tough polymer based pistol on the market then I guess Baikal's Viking should be in the similar league.

Regards

Dr Zakir
28-08-2009, 11:43 PM
i heard mp 443 was not available in pakistan?

Mohammad
29-08-2009, 11:45 AM
@ 12 guage..... heck you are right.
@dr zakir mp443 grach is available but with certain dealers and they keep it disclosed until some serious buyer comes in cause MP443 is not an export model. They, i think, smuggle it inside the country or so

Dr Zakir
29-08-2009, 12:46 PM
Ok. Thanks I think I will buy one

Zubair
29-08-2009, 01:55 PM
@ 12 guage..... heck you are right.
@dr zakir mp443 grach is available but with certain dealers and they keep it disclosed until some serious buyer comes in cause MP443 is not an export model. They, i think, smuggle it inside the country or so

Well new Russian wepaons are hard to find but I have also seen the following one in LAHORE and would definetley like to have one
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg139-e.htm

KageFox
29-08-2009, 03:05 PM
@Zubair 723: The successor to the Stechkin, most probably PB

@all: Can't see any major differences between the Grach and the Viking, apart from sights, trigger guard, rail.

12GAUGE
30-08-2009, 01:18 PM
@Zubair 723: The successor to the Stechkin, most probably PB

@all: Can't see any major differences between the Grach and the Viking, apart from sights, trigger guard, rail.


here is a cutout from:
http://www.militaryltd.com/forum/drop-zone/m442-lethal-caliber.htm

**********************************************
Russian armed forces have increasingly taken up the ubiquitous 9x19 mm as their standard round replacing the 9x18 mm round used by the post-war Makarov PM/PMM. The all-steel construction of the Baikal company’s PYa or Yarygin pistol carries 18 rounds and will, funding permitting, be the standard military pistol eventually replacing the Makarov according to leading designer Mikhail Dragounov.

One area of Russian expertise has been in developing more capable ammunition such as the 7N21 9 mm armor piercing round with hardened steel core designed to be used with the PYa. However, the high cost versus the standard 9 mm may mean widespread use is limited. The Baikal plant has the historical distinction of being the largest pistol-manufacturing site in the world achieving annual output of 100,000 pistols during the Soviet era.

Two Polymer framed variants are offered for export, the MP-446 Viking in 9x19 mm and the MP-445 Varyag in both 9x19 mm and 40 S&W. Both use a double hammer firing mechanism and propped breach-locking system.
**********************************************

Regards

MHMalik
30-08-2009, 02:52 PM
I had the opportunity to use Zubair Sbs Baikal Viking yesterday, and was really impressed with it. I shot it for the first time and its controlability and accuracy were great!. I mean the gun made an average shooter like me look great! From the build quality it looks bombproof.. Highly recommended if you're into Russian weapons..

9mm Luger
30-08-2009, 09:42 PM
a bit too big for CC but i have no doubt that its an excellent weapon!

Dr Zakir
30-08-2009, 10:15 PM
highly recommended in weapons between 50 to 70k

Dr Zakir
30-08-2009, 10:16 PM
it is in my wish list

Enigmatic Desires
31-08-2009, 04:14 AM
Mine as well

KageFox
31-08-2009, 06:13 PM
Apparently a very good weapon, and it possibly has the legendary Russian ruggedness...

Zubair
03-09-2009, 12:07 PM
Some videos of Viking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9yJHfHqNII&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs2tUEzZ0Cs

Dr Zakir
03-09-2009, 08:10 PM
i have already fired from 12 gauges pistol and no doubt it is a good gun

Ilyas
03-09-2009, 10:58 PM
i have already fired from 12 gauges pistol and no doubt it is a good gun

I thought 12gauge had a CF98, does he have a Viking as well?
Seems like you really got him infected with handguns :)

12GAUGE
04-09-2009, 12:10 AM
i have already fired from 12 gauges pistol and no doubt it is a good gun

I thought 12gauge had a CF98, does he have a Viking as well?
Seems like you really got him infected with handguns :)


Ilyas Bhai hangun infection spreads really fast. ;)

Regards.

Dr Zakir
04-09-2009, 11:57 AM
Yes ILLYAS he has also made it enter iny wish list instead of cf 98.
Now it reads ad local 92fs clone baikal np 22 and nz 85

Ilyas
04-09-2009, 03:22 PM
@12gauge... Good going Bro :)
@Zakir Bhai.... Zakir Bhai talking about your wish list, why don't you please share with all of us the list of weapons
you already have, coz I am sure it already is amazing :D

MIdreesTaj
04-09-2009, 05:01 PM
plus do the have supported or unsupported chamber?

Kabooms are results of excessive pressure levels build up inside a firearm.. for which following can be reasons:

case failure/rupture for which unsupported chamber is one suspected cause. much of which we heard in .40S&W Glock22/23.

Barrel obstructions of any sort, even lead fouling in excess, can make it happen, that is why polygonal rifled barrels are not recommended for lead cast bullets as they gather up lead inside them faster than conventional rifling.

Ammo problem, like way too less powder/charge inside the case.. this results not in proper burning of powder, rather it ends up in DETONATION! a faulty factory piece or faulty handload. Bullet seated way much inside the case is another ammo related issue resulting in excess pressure levels.

Round is out of battery. that is, the round is not fully inserted in chamber, meaning slide is not fully closed. This is a rare case and is more pistol design dependant. e.g a 92FS cannot fire unless slide is not fully locked with locking blocks held in locking position, because the hammer doesnt fall fully unless the said condition is fullfilled.

So incase of a GRACH Kb! you should not only see ammunition or supportiveness of chamber, there can be other reasons as mentioned above.