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View Full Version : Callibers of rifles their Ranges,Muzzle velocity and Recoil



Taurus
24-08-2009, 09:41 PM
Hye guys was reading something interesting about 7 mm rifles and found many different other callibers their Ranges,Muzzle Velocity and Recoil so thought to share it with you guys

Terminal effects.
All three rounds have proven effective against humans and larger animals for both head and torso shots.

Recoil

165gr .308 180gr .308 165gr .300 Win Mag 180gr .300 Win Mag 140gr 7mm Rem Mag
17.9ftlbs 18.6ftlbs 25.1ftlbs 26.7ftlbs 19.1ftlbs

Recoil levels of the 7mm Rem Mag are close to that of the .308 or a .30-06

Maximum Point Blank Range (MPBR)

Range at which bullet does not pass more than +3" or 3" from line of sight.

165gr .308 180gr .308 165gr .300 Win Mag 180gr .300 Win Mag 140gr 7mm Rem Mag
264yds 259yds 303yds 303yds 310yds

7mm Rem Mag shoots flatter than a .300 Win mag but has considerably less recoil.

Ballistic coefficient and muzzle velocities.

165gr .308 180gr .308 165gr .300 Win Mag 180gr .300 Win Mag 140gr 7mm Rem Mag
.410 .483 .410 .483 .485
2700 fps 2610 fps 3120fps 3070 fps 3150 fps


The higher the Ballistic coefficient the slower the tendency for the bullet to be slowed by the air. The Ballistic coefficients of the .30 180gr and 7mm 140gr are virtually identical, so all rounds will lose velocity at a similar rate. The 7mm starts off with more velocity, so flight time will be shorter. A shorter flight time reduces the effects of wind and target movement.

Out to at least 300yds the 7mm Rem Mag performs slightly better than the .300 Win Mag while producing only the recoil forces of a .308. I don't have any figures for performance beyond this range, but during the Boer war 7x57mm Mausers were effective at more than 800yds. The 7mm Rem Mag fires an identical round at a higher velocity.

Since I wrote the above section, I've discovered the ballistics calculator at www.realguns.com (http://www.realguns.com) that is linked to below. The differences in velocity and ballistic coefficient of the 180gr .300 Win Mag and 140gr 7mm Rem Mag do not seem to be significant. Out to 1000yds flight time is the same for both rounds. At 1000yds the .300 has more energy, while the 7mm has dropped less. Both still have more than enough energy to be lethal.

There is no reason why Police forces should be restricted to Military or NATO standard ammo. In fact they are neglecting their primary job of public safety by using such rounds if more effective alternatives are available.

It could be argued that the 7mm Rem Mag has too much range for certain police operations. In such cases the round can be down loaded to produce velocities similar to the 7mm-08. Even such a reduced power round will still shoot better than a .308 :-

7mm-08 140gr at 2860 fps has a MPBR of 285yds
7mm-08 120gr at 3000fps has a MPBR 291yds.

For certain situations heavier, shorter ranged bullets may be needed:-

The 200gr round is the heaviest loading for the .300 commonly available. It will be noted that the 175gr 7mm rounds compares very favorably with both this round and the 250gr .338 Lapua Magnum.

I've used the 7mm Rem Mag. For purposes of illustration. There are other rounds with similar performance:- the 7mm Rem SAUM and 7mm WSM. The 7mm-08 and the .270 Win are both superior to the .308/7.62mm for shorter range shooting.

hasnaincfa
24-08-2009, 10:29 PM
very informative, thanks brother.

Skeeter60
24-08-2009, 10:37 PM
Taurus

Very informative and good work sir.
I request it is a very complicated and vast subject, we can not adopt the more the merrier approach more power does not mean it should be adopted. A 460 weatherby magnum is even more powerful but can we use it as a military round? or do we need it.
There are a lot of parameters and the choice of military /police calibers has been thrashed for more than a 150 years so let them decide what they need

KageFox
24-08-2009, 10:57 PM
How about we dump all of 'em and go straight to the .700 Nitro Express :D ?

Today's Popular sniper rifle cartridges: .338 Lapua Magnum, .300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, among others. Better ballistics, greater range than .308 Win (7.62x51mm), less powerful than the .50 BMG

A Comparison of Rifle Cartridges
Cartridge........................................M aximum effective range
5.56x45mm.....................................300 500 m
7.62x51mm (.308 Winchester)........8001,000 m
7.62x54mm R..................................8001,000 m
7 mm Remington Magnum...............9001,100 m
.300 Winchester Magnum................9001,200 m
.338 Lapua Magnum........................1,3001,600 m
.50 BMG/12.7x108mm (Russian)......1,5002,000 m
14.5x114mm...................................1,900 2,300 m
.408 Chey Tac.................................> 2,400 m

Ka_Khan
24-08-2009, 11:38 PM
Good article taurs :)

Enigmatic Desires
25-08-2009, 02:59 AM
I notice the humble 7mm is conspicuous by its absence amongst this august body of man killers

Silent killerr
25-08-2009, 02:44 PM
Thats why i love 7mm but unfortunately it is PB now a days.

Turumti
25-08-2009, 02:52 PM
7mm might be PB in Punjab, but not here in Sindh.

MIdreesTaj
25-08-2009, 05:20 PM
@Taurus nice info brother..
from what i 've learnt comparing BCs only are meaningful when all other factors contributing it are controlled. BC at a particular distance vary dramatically. There may be a specific distance shot, where 300Win mag has more BC than 7mm Rem mag, all other factors like wind drag, bullet Ogive, bullet weight, powder/charge, slow/fast burning charges and resultant velocity, angle of elevation of shot, case pressures, these all sum up for the final effeciency which is LIVE @ any specific distance, and specific for a set of different combinations of these factors.

MIdreesTaj
25-08-2009, 05:27 PM
How about we dump all of 'em and go straight to the .700 Nitro Express :D ?

Today's Popular sniper rifle cartridges: .338 Lapua Magnum, .300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, among others. Better ballistics, greater range than .308 Win (7.62x51mm), less powerful than the .50 BMG

A Comparison of Rifle Cartridges
Cartridge........................................M aximum effective range
5.56x45mm.....................................300 500 m
7.62x51mm (.308 Winchester)........8001,000 m
7.62x54mm R..................................8001,000 m
7 mm Remington Magnum...............9001,100 m
.300 Winchester Magnum................9001,200 m
.338 Lapua Magnum........................1,3001,600 m
.50 BMG/12.7x108mm (Russian)......1,5002,000 m
14.5x114mm...................................1,900 2,300 m
.408 Chey Tac.................................> 2,400 m

Fox you must then compare the wildcat cartridge Cheyenne Tactical .408/ or .408 Chey Tac fired from their Chey Tac Intervention M200 rifle in the movie Shooter. That camo rifle which took the long range shot in the snow..smashing the fluid filled can!!! with that superbly filmographed muzzle blast.. Dont I love that scene... My gawd that bullet is far superior to .338 Lapua now for tactical work, its LIVE BC is calculated at around .910.
now that is an outclass ballistics and an outclass rifle .. Intervention m200 :)

KageFox
25-08-2009, 10:09 PM
The sniping in that movie is awesome. The movie-makers even had a retired professional sniper to give advice and training to Mark Wahlberg (Bob Swagger).

Unfortunately the Intervention is a bulky heavy weapon, compared to weapons chambered for .338LM and .300WM. It may be a good special forces weapon, where a sniper does not have to care much about mobility, but for regular day-to-day LE agents, a bolt-action in the aforementioned calibers is good enough to do the job.

Dr Zakir
25-08-2009, 11:04 PM
+1 kage fox for most practical purposes 7.62 * 51 is enough for long range .50bmg is choice

KageFox
25-08-2009, 11:50 PM
For long range, better calibers such as the .460 Barret, have cropped up. This particular bullet was shown in an episode of Future Weapons. For now, it is only available in a bolt-action.

As far as snipers are concerned, a number of hostage situations have proved the folly of using bolt-action rifles. Follow-up shots are not just fast enough to take down the perpetrators.

MIdreesTaj
26-08-2009, 02:49 PM
@KageFox - you confused the new Steyr round with that of Barret's. Barret .416 and Steyr .460.. these ar the two lastest sniping round in the world.
@Dr Zakir - 7.62*51 remains the most practical round, almost every army has it vastly utilized in diff scenarios.
------------------------now some latest lineup (Sniping Cartridges of the world)-------------

From left to right: 7.62x51 (for scale), .300 Winchester Magnum, .338 Lapua Magnum, .375 CheyTac, .408 CheyTac, .416 Barrett, .460 Steyr, .50 BMG A-MAX
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/740/14463315.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

KageFox
26-08-2009, 03:38 PM
I stand corrected, sorry for the error.

Should have heard Richard Mack more carefully :D

Denovo87
26-08-2009, 03:46 PM
What is on the tip of 50 bmg? is it something explossive?

KageFox
26-08-2009, 03:52 PM
Maybe armor piercing tip...

Enigmatic Desires
26-08-2009, 04:28 PM
But ar'nt most top end BMG rounds anti materiel rather then anti-personal?

KageFox
26-08-2009, 06:10 PM
They may be anti-material, but maybe such a tip to give a little "extra"? :)

KageFox
26-08-2009, 08:28 PM
Just found this link, while on the topic of long range shooting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glCddKt8sX0&feature=related

Taurus
28-08-2009, 05:17 AM
@Taurus nice info brother..
from what i 've learnt comparing BCs only are meaningful when all other factors contributing it are controlled. BC at a particular distance vary dramatically. There may be a specific distance shot, where 300Win mag has more BC than 7mm Rem mag, all other factors like wind drag, bullet Ogive, bullet weight, powder/charge, slow/fast burning charges and resultant velocity, angle of elevation of shot, case pressures, these all sum up for the final effeciency which is LIVE @ any specific distance, and specific for a set of different combinations of these face
+1 Midreestaj and kagefox nice contribution
Kagefox hope to see you in the karachi GTG

Ppl should also add one more thing it also depands on the grains of the bullet for example 7mm mag 140 grain has a different range tot that of 180 grain might be not a big difference but still there is a difference on the grains as well and the shape and weight of the bullet is also dependant

KageFox
28-08-2009, 11:48 AM
sorry, won't be able to be there. Uni applications giving me a hard time. Maybe in the gtg after ramzan...

MIdreesTaj
28-08-2009, 05:39 PM
What is on the tip of 50 bmg? is it something explossive?

no Denovo, this is not a purposely coloured tip. Its basically a MATCH grade BMG round the one you see in the picture. It is bearing a Hornady A-MAX bullet, a match grade projectile which by brand has a an aluminum tip, its not an AP

usually an AP-I round is silverish tip and AP round is black tip as used by U.S military.

Denovo87
28-08-2009, 06:29 PM
What is on the tip of 50 bmg? is it something explossive?

no Denovo, this is not a purposely coloured tip. Its basically a MATCH grade BMG round the one you see in the picture. It is bearing a Hornady A-MAX bullet, a match grade projectile which by brand has a an aluminum tip, its not an AP

usually an AP-I round is silverish tip and AP round is black tip as used by U.S military.

Thanks Midreestaj, regarding the colour of the AP round tip, I have 5.56 NATO AP rounds with green tip not black :)

KageFox
28-08-2009, 07:51 PM
Thanks for the clarification about the tip. Any known benefits of aluminum tips?

XMen
28-08-2009, 08:12 PM
Thanks for sharing nice research

Malik1
29-08-2009, 05:24 PM
Aluminium tips are the incendiary element of a bullet meant for aircraft / material targets. It is colored blue on tip. An AP (armour piercing) shot can also be incendiary in nature and is primarily meant for soft skin vehicles / material but is colored differently. They have the potential to put the target on fire. There are more than 20 types of ammunition issued for use in the caliber .50 machine gun, color coded on the tip to enable identification of loose rounds, tabulated below.

Types of U.S. .50 cal. Cartridges

This listing of .50 cal. cartridges includes most of the types used by the U.S. military:

Cartridge, Caliber .50, Ball, High Pressure Test, M1
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Blank, M1 (no bullet, crimped)
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Incendiary, M1 (blue tip)
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Tracer, M1 (red, maroon, or orange tip)
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Blank, M1A1 (no bullet, crimped)
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Ball, M2
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Ball, Armor Piercing, M2 (black tip)
Cartridge, Dummy, Caliber .50, M2 (holes in case)
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Ball, Armor Piercing Incendiary, M8 (aluminum tip)
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Tracer M10 (red, maroon, or orange tip)
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Tracer; M17 (red, maroon, or orange tip)
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Ball, Armor Piercing Incendiary-Tracer, M20 (red ring/aluminum tip)
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Incendiary, M23 (blue tip)
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Ball, M33
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Ball, Spotter-Tracer, M48A1
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Ball, Spotter-Tracer, M48A2
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Ball, Plastic Practice, M858
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Tracer, Plastic Practice, M860
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Saboted Light Armor Penetrator (SLAP), M903 (plastic sleeve on projectile)
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Saboted Light Armor Penetrator-Tracer (SLAP-T), M962
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Ball, Practice, T249E2
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Ball, High Pressure Test, T251
Cartridge, Caliber .50: Armor Piercing Incendiary (API), MK 211 MOD

Now somebody may ask about SLAP?

SLAP stand for Saboted Light amour penetrator. .50 caliber SLAP ammunition was developed by the Marine Corps during the mid/late 1980s and was approved for service use in 1990 during Operation Desert Storm. It uses a reduced caliber, heavy metal (tungsten) .30 inch diameter penetrator wrapped in a "plastic" sabot or "shoe" of .50 inch diameter.
Since the mass of the saboted penetrator is much lighter in weight than normal ball .50 caliber ammunition, SLAP's velocity is much higher than a normal round.
A similar type of kinetic energy shot is also up the sleeve of most of the world tanks and is called APFSDS (armor piercing fin stabilized discarding sabot). It is small rod of extremely solid material like tungsten or depleted uranium, which is fired at extremly high velocities and penetrates through the armor using kinetic energy. Since it cannot go through the other side of tank, hence breaks inside the tank and causes massive damage to tank / crew. If fired against an APC, will simply go through both the sides of APC making two holes only

KageFox
29-08-2009, 05:44 PM
Good research, sir.

Taurus
29-08-2009, 09:08 PM
Malik 1 Nice Info..Very Informative

Malik1
29-08-2009, 10:05 PM
KF & Taurus! Many thanks bros

MHMalik
01-09-2009, 05:58 AM
What is on the tip of 50 bmg? is it something explossive?

no Denovo, this is not a purposely coloured tip. Its basically a MATCH grade BMG round the one you see in the picture. It is bearing a Hornady A-MAX bullet, a match grade projectile which by brand has a an aluminum tip, its not an AP

usually an AP-I round is silverish tip and AP round is black tip as used by U.S military.

Thanks Midreestaj, regarding the colour of the AP round tip, I have 5.56 NATO AP rounds with green tip not black :)

Green tip is m855 penetrator. It is not a AP round. AP is I believe manufactured by Sierra MatchKing or blackhills or something and is M995 or so in 77gr. It does have a black tip. Penetrator is 55gr and can penetrate steel helmet at 600metres give or take.

But yes the penetrator will defeat most common body armor types. upto level III easily at high velocities.

Fahim
01-09-2009, 08:16 AM
Great Info guys.. thanx alot..

MIdreesTaj
02-09-2009, 04:34 PM
Aluminium tips are the incendiary element of a bullet meant for aircraft / material targets. It is colored blue on tip. An AP (armour piercing) shot can ....

Aluminium Tip are introduced into Match bullets such a Hornady Amax...
In old days, idea of introducing an aluminium tip in a .303 british is found, it was said that it enhanced the projectile's accuracy at longer ranges. May be people at hornady learn much from past experiences...anyway Most americans did not like this idea of aluminium tip.

On the other end, tips of AP and API are colored according to their designation in a military by caliber and application. There is no aluminium tip made for AP or API round.