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Saadat Hayat Khan
21-08-2009, 08:50 AM
ASA. Can anyone suggest me a good gunsmith in Karachi who can do a decent 'gun bluing' on a shot gun. Thanks.

Ahmad
21-08-2009, 09:10 AM
Although i can not suggest a smith in your city but kindly tell us what type of shot gun you got as bluing differs from gun to gun.
For old damascus barrels rust bluing
for newer breed of barrel Hot caustic blue can be used.
For alloy framed guns as pumps & autos spray& bake type or powder coating is best
be very careful if you have a double barrel as hot caustic bluing which hp used 95% of the time can de solder the barrels and rib which can split on shooting

Striker1
21-08-2009, 09:13 AM
Hello SHK

There is a chap Karim and his son Shahnawaz in Gizri , behind the fruit market on the left side if you are heading towards DHA.

Though I have neither tried him nor do I know him, but have heard that his work is commendable.

Skeeter60
21-08-2009, 09:46 AM
Hello SHK

There is a chap Karim and his son Shahnawaz in Gizri , behind the fruit market on the left side if you are heading towards DHA.

Though I have neither tried him nor do I know him, but have heard that his work is commendable.

Kareem is a legendry armourer now in his 90s his hands have tremor yet he understands all weapons and his work even now is commendable
We must appreciate his work and may be those of us who are in Karachi can post his pictures and a word about him before he is history

Sohail
21-08-2009, 10:17 AM
saadat: welcome brother, i must tell you that the process; bluing is considered the last resort when you really think it is must, bluing also effect on the resale.

regards

Ka_Khan
21-08-2009, 10:46 AM
Kareem is a legendry armourer now in his 90s his hands have tremor yet he understands all weapons and his work even now is commendable
We must appreciate his work and may be those of us who are in Karachi can post his pictures and a word about him before he is history

I second Skeeter...If any of Karachi member could get time and get a short interview with him plus his Pics.This guy is our assets and Skeeter is right about this should be dont before he is History.

Naazer
21-08-2009, 02:19 PM
Gents

I have used Kareem for finessing my dad's M-16A1 in 1993 and he did an awesome job at it. Highly recommended and he is extremely good. True he is now really old but his son Shahnawaz does an equally good job. Was having trouble with a 22 adler where the bolt was not retracting fully and magazines springs were weak so he fixed that also.

Close friend had an Aya side by side shot gun restored from him and last year and again it was an awesome job taking the value of the shot gun up. Kept the vintage look by not shining the engraving but the barrels and stocks needed work so got that done.

Use him and there should be no issues

I am not in town but would have defo taken his pics and done a write up.

Enigmatic Desires
22-08-2009, 02:29 AM
I've passed by the place like a zillion times. never knew there was a world class armorer there.. Next time I get a chance to go there. i wil definitely look out for him.. I have a shot gun whose finishing I am not satisfied with..

Striker1
22-08-2009, 09:48 AM
Bluing and Resale.. Yes there are others who say the same as well... But hey.. As every thing needs maintenance and with Karachi atmosphere having one of the highest salt contects in the world... Maintenance is critical.

I second Nazeer and Imu had also recommended him to once.

@ SHK ..Do go visit the chap and discuss the process and pricing issues with him.

There are some that say that powder paint is better, even dealers in Lucky Star Area.. I totally disagree! Just cant understand how the heat transfer would occur.

Saadat Hayat Khan
23-08-2009, 03:49 PM
Hello. Thanks all of you gentlemen for your comments with regard "gun bluing". I have known Karim a zillion years. Yes, he is fantastic at his work, really gifted. But then he has certain flaws you have to be careful off, but hey, don't we all!! I too agree that a write-up on him should be posted. Thanks once again, for your time and effort, and May Allah AllMighty bless all of you and our Land during this Holy Month of Ramadhan. Ameen

Engineer
09-10-2009, 05:01 PM
Bluing is a dificult job but before doing u need to make the ground of work piece. It is an oxidising process on steel, Anodising on Alluminium, and Electroplating on Steel and copper parts. Usually barrels are hard chromed from inside.Following is the process for jet black bluing.
1 Clean the gun
2 Make surface by Buffing.
3 Boil in the solution of Sodium Hidro Oxide and potasium Nitrate.

AK47
09-10-2009, 08:18 PM
Bluing is a dificult job but before doing u need to make the ground of work piece. It is an oxidising process on steel, Anodising on Alluminium, and Electroplating on Steel and copper parts. Usually barrels are hard chromed from inside.Following is the process for jet black bluing.
1 Clean the gun
2 Make surface by Buffing.
3 Boil in the solution of Sodium Hidro Oxide and potasium Nitrate.Very useful FIRST post here, Engineer. Welcome on board!

Ahmad
09-10-2009, 10:12 PM
@ engineer what do you say about Parkerizing

Ali Akbar
10-10-2009, 08:01 PM
welcome on board engineer

AK47
10-10-2009, 10:28 PM
Anyone knows how "Dry Bluing" is conducted, which would be the best agents to use, their availability, and most of all who does it best between Isb and Psw? I have a Dbbl I wish to have restored, but would not like to go through the boiling procedure with Sodium Hydro oxide etc?

Engineer
14-10-2009, 04:59 PM
Anyone knows how "Dry Bluing" is conducted, which would be the best agents to use, their availability, and most of all who does it best between Isb and Psw? I have a Dbbl I wish to have restored, but would not like to go through the boiling procedure with Sodium Hydro oxide etc?

i dont know what u talking about may b Electrstatic poly urithine base powder coating. It is not recomended for shotguns may while heating it melts the Plumbum (RANGHA) from the ribs.

Engineer
14-10-2009, 06:49 PM
Try FAMOUS Arms

Engineer
15-10-2009, 06:04 PM
Anyone knows how "Dry Bluing" is conducted, which would be the best agents to use, their availability, and most of all who does it best between Isb and Psw? I have a Dbbl I wish to have restored, but would not like to go through the boiling procedure with Sodium Hydro oxide etc?
AS I HAVE PRACTICALLY HANDLED THE PROCESSES OF CHEMICAL BLACKENING OF FERROUS SUBSTRATES AND PHOSPHATING WITH BLACK FINISH, I CAN SAY THAT PHOSPHATING WILL BE CHEAPER AND MORE CORROSION RESISTANT THAN BLACK OXIDE WHICH LOOKS ATTRACTIVE. THE CHEMICAL BLACKENING USING ALKALINE SOLUTION IS A DIFFICULT PROCESS WITH CLOSE OPERATING RANGE OF 136-140 DEG CENTIGRADE. IN PHOSPHATING MANGANESE PHOSPHATING WILL LOOK JET BLACK WITH MATTE FINISH BUT THE PROCESS NEEDS TO BE CONTROLLED VERY CAREFULLY. IF ZINC/IRON PHOSPHATING IS CHOSEN BASED ON THE FORMULATION OF THE PROPRIETARY CHEMICAL WITH NICKEL OR CALCIUM THE ATTAINMENT OF BLACK FINISH IS ENSURED. THIS PROCESS WILL BE THE CHEAPEST. THERE IS YET ANOTHER COLD BLACKENING PROCESS WHEREIN THE FERROUS MATERIAL IS DIPPED IN A SOLUTION CONTAINING COPPER WHICH GETS COATED WITH COPPER BY DISPLACEMENT REACTION AND IMMEDIATELY BLACKENED BY SUITABLE ACETATE/SILVER CONTAINING PROPRIETARY SOLUTIONS. BUT THIS IS ONLY DECORATIVE AND VERY THIN COATING WHICH DOES NOT CONTRIBUTE TO THE CORROSION RESISTANCE OF THE SUBSTRATE METAL

Glocky
15-10-2009, 08:58 PM
Anyone knows how "Dry Bluing" is conducted, which would be the best agents to use, their availability, and most of all who does it best between Isb and Psw? I have a Dbbl I wish to have restored, but would not like to go through the boiling procedure with Sodium Hydro oxide etc?

There are two forms of bluing as per my knowledge, hot and cold. Are you by any chance referring to cold bluing frnd ? If yes then there are Hoppes DIY kits in the market but i would not recommend them for extensive work rather touchups, as cold bluing is not very lasting and the finnish is not great either. You are correct though the hot bluing done locally is not that great either and sometimes the guns start rusting within months.

KageFox
15-10-2009, 09:01 PM
Tayabally in Saddar, Karachi, also has Brownells bluing products, which range from (I think) total bluing kits to touch-up pens to rectify small nicks and scratches in the blue finish.

SAJJAD ALI
29-10-2009, 01:04 AM
Bluing is a dificult job but before doing u need to make the ground of work piece. It is an oxidising process on steel, Anodising on Alluminium, and Electroplating on Steel and copper parts. Usually barrels are hard chromed from inside.Following is the process for jet black bluing.
1 Clean the gun
2 Make surface by Buffing.
3 Boil in the solution of Sodium Hidro Oxide and potasium Nitrate.
Very dangerous method once i tried but very difficult to do it at home.

Rizshu
29-10-2009, 09:02 PM
guyz can anyone tell me what is 'gun bluing' ?

SAJJAD ALI
30-10-2009, 01:19 AM
Gun bluing means to fernish or color the gun just like new.cleaning the rust inside and outside the barrel and also the other metal parts of gun.

AK47
30-10-2009, 01:37 AM
Anyone knows how "Dry Bluing" is conducted, which would be the best agents to use, their availability, and most of all who does it best between Isb and Psw? I have a Dbbl I wish to have restored, but would not like to go through the boiling procedure with Sodium Hydro oxide etc?

There are two forms of bluing as per my knowledge, hot and cold. Are you by any chance referring to cold bluing frnd ? If yes then there are Hoppes DIY kits in the market but i would not recommend them for extensive work rather touchups, as cold bluing is not very lasting and the finnish is not great either. You are correct though the hot bluing done locally is not that great either and sometimes the guns start rusting within months. Thanks Glocky, I've been away on this issue for some time. Anyhow, yes I meant cold bluing purpose. The heat process is said to be risky. How do you think most modern weapons are blued? Cold or hot, coz the hot is said to be harming even to mechanism of auto/semi auto weapons. Is that right?

SAJJAD ALI
30-10-2009, 06:40 PM
i heared that it also effects the quality of metal.

Glocky
30-10-2009, 08:46 PM
I'm not much of a technical person so please pardon any errors in my explanation of the terminology/process,

Factory or professionally done hot bluing is not harmful, bluing is actually a controlled form of rusting induced by chemical baths, it stops steel from rusting any further i.e. until the bluing wears off exposing bare metal again. Bluing also has the advantage of creating the right surface texture to retain oil thus ensuring protection if properly maintained. Almost all blued weapons are hot blued when manufactured. Normally the parts are bathed separately and then assembled together. Mechanism parts such as springs, pins etc are normally not blued, hence the point of the process damaging the mechanism might be incorrect.

Coming back to your original query about restoring a dbbl barrel, may i suggest look around the different workshops of gunsmiths and see their work, hot bluing if done correctly can last, only problem is finding the right guy. I remember one time my dad wanted to get some automobile parts chromed and we found out that the largest chrome bath was available only with PIA, who's services we managed to obtain and they did a pretty decent job as well. So look/ask around maybe Isl guys like 12 gauge could chime in.

Hope that helps

AK47
30-10-2009, 09:07 PM
Thanks for useful help, Glocky. As far as the effects of hot bluing to the mechanism is concerned, I hope your assertion is right. Actually, I remember an uncle of mine wanted his AK rifle restored, as though in perfect condition, like new, almost never used, the color of the rifle by passage of time had faded and he wanted it back to black. Somebody had told him that when they hot bathe the AK, in extreme temperatures, the receiver gets damaged and the rifle may not be properly cycling again! He dropped the idea, immediately! And it's still steely white today! Don't know, if there was anything real in that assertion!

Glocky
30-10-2009, 09:10 PM
Agreed, if it ain't broken don't fix it. you'll only make it worse.

khakiMB
03-11-2009, 08:44 AM
Gentlemen,

Is there someone in Lahore or Islamabad who can do a good job. I have a few weapons which need to be redone. Some have extreme rust which will have to be removed first. I would be grateful for any suggestions.

Ahmad
03-11-2009, 10:29 AM
Gentlemen,

Is there someone in Lahore or Islamabad who can do a good job. I have a few weapons which need to be redone. Some have extreme rust which will have to be removed first. I would be grateful for any suggestions.
Mr. Akram in the basement of Buksh Elahi at Mall Road lahore is a very competent gun smith, you may give him a visit & can check the work done by him.

khakiMB
03-11-2009, 01:44 PM
@Ahmad,

Thank you I will check him out.

Naveed_pk
03-11-2009, 01:47 PM
Yes Mr Akram very talented GunSmith...