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Airgunner.22
19-08-2009, 07:08 PM
Hello PG members,

I wanted to know if there is a locally available international brand other than GAMO and DIANA any where, like daisy or beeman or webley etc.

I need a more powerful .22 air rifle, so if it even is a gamo, can you please tell me its name and specifications?

Thanks.

P.S i have a diana mod 35 .22.

KageFox
19-08-2009, 07:09 PM
What do you have currently (specs)? Just asking for the sake of power comparison

Airgunner.22
19-08-2009, 08:04 PM
i would say that this 30 yrs old gun is 600fps and thats optimistic thinking.

Ka_Khan
19-08-2009, 08:06 PM
Have seen the copies of Diana made in Lahore and Karachi.

KageFox
19-08-2009, 08:17 PM
Okay, I've got no idea about the others, but I have a Gamo Shadow 1000 for more than a year now. Have put through a good number of pellet tins through it. I only use Gamo Match and Pro Magnum pellets. The gun is sufficiently accurate and pretty powerful. Rated muzzle velocity is 722fps (.22). I highly recommend this gun, or its counterpart, the Hunter 440 if you prefer wooden furniture. Got mine for 17K in June 08.

Given the choice AND money (none of which were available :P) I would have liked to buy a Diana, but the Shadow doesn't make me regret my choice. Keep looking for other similar options... hopefully you'll find something you like. If not, the Gamo's always there.

PS: Airguns, particularly spring-powered, require a couple thousand rounds to smooth out. As the pellet count grows, the consistency of gun also increases in terms of power and accuracy.

Try International Arms or Shaheen Traders in Saddar. Good luck in your search.

Airgunner.22
19-08-2009, 09:41 PM
Wooden furniture??

Yes i have heard of this gun. I think ill be better off with the shadow in .177 as it will give me a higher speed. And which diana were you speaking of?? The panther 21? In which case gamo sounds better.

Ill check out the gamo then.

KageFox
19-08-2009, 09:47 PM
Wooden stock. And if you, like me, like to break things with your airgun, I think you'd like a .22 more :D. Though yes, a .177 will give higher velocity, but bear in mind that it does not strike the target with the same energy as a .22. Also, ultra-high velo pellets like the Gamo PBA Raptor have a tendency of tumbling through the air, striking the target sideways and generally impairing accuracy.

And no, I was not talking about the Diana. I asked after the price of one of Diana's side lever rifles; the price just shocked me...

Ilyas
19-08-2009, 09:53 PM
Few days back I saw some German Brand. It was UMAREX or something like that. The price quoted by the shopkeeper
was 45k http://www.postimage.org/templates/images/smiley/confused/14.gif (http://www.postimage.org/) I thought it was toooo much for an airgun but anyhow later I tried to search it online but couldn't find the model that I had seen. It was a synthetic model and I didn't find any synthetic model online, at all.

Airgunner.22
19-08-2009, 10:01 PM
Gamo shadow 1000 it is then. I know it is an accurate gun. Any problems with the spring? I heard it snaps after a few thousand shots.

Also, is the hunter 440 available here in pakistan?

KageFox
19-08-2009, 10:27 PM
My dad has the 440. When I got the Shadow, the Hunter was just a little more expensive.

No problems yet. Have gone through about 2000 rounds. Someone advised me not to allow the spring to go bone dry.

Enigmatic Desires
20-08-2009, 12:41 AM
Would a .22 airgun take out a full sized rat?

Ilyas
20-08-2009, 12:53 AM
In my opinion, rats are quite soft to kill therefore .22 pellets must take them out.

Enigmatic Desires
20-08-2009, 03:07 AM
I'd rather not get a .22 fire arm.. since they venture out at night an don't want to wake up the neighbor hood. Preferably a pistol would do fine

Skeeter60
20-08-2009, 09:28 AM
Oiling an Air Rifle
Please never ever put even a drop of oil inside the chamber where the piston moves and compresses air. I am sure we all know about a phenomenon known as DIESELING. On firing there will be a lot of blue smoke as the oil burns, burning the seals and the gaskit around the piston ruining the air rifle.
A competent gunsmith can lubricate it with a bit of graphite grease never oil

Airgunner.22
20-08-2009, 09:34 AM
Yes. Absolutely. Also, there is something called silicone grease. Some people also say that there should be a mixture of water and oil in there.

And .22 air rifles can easily kill rats. Have killed several myself.

TAREEN
20-08-2009, 10:40 AM
Would a .22 airgun take out a full sized rat?
Without doubt it can take out rabbits and birds the size of rooster. And thats from personal experience. A friend of ours killed a jackal with a properly placed shot.

KageFox
20-08-2009, 02:05 PM
@Skeeter60: Thanks for the advice sir. I've never been one to oil the insides of my air rifle, but might have been careless to put in a drop or two in my older one. How do you suggest lubricating the spring?

A .22 air rifle, like any other weapon, can kill any reasonable target at a suitable range.

Airgunner.22
20-08-2009, 04:48 PM
Remove the stock. On the underside of the gun,you should easily be able to see the spring. Just oil it there.

KageFox
20-08-2009, 04:55 PM
I'm sort of afraid of taking apart airguns, even if its just the stock. Had an umm... BAAD experience with my Norinco Model 1-23 (thats what it said on the box). It had an EXTREMELY hard trigger. Took the gun apart to see if I could do something about it... gun was never the same again :P

Skeeter60
20-08-2009, 05:51 PM
Yes. Absolutely. Also, there is something called silicone grease. Some people also say that there should be a MIXTURE OF OIL AND WATER THERE . 22 air rifles can easily kill rats. Have killed several myself.

Dear Sir,
I have never heard of this concoction to be fed in an air Rifle/Pistol, please share your experience with us, what happened and what were the immediate and long term results?

Airgunner.22
20-08-2009, 06:36 PM
I tried this once with my chinese .177 air rifle with a leather washer. So far so good. The washer is giving good pressure and no noises other than the spring during reload.

I washed out the cylinder with water. Then i put drops of oil in it. Then i put the washer. The washer must have absorbed the oil and expanded, giving an airtight seal. I noticed that the pressure increased. Before, there was a plastic washer.

Mumar
20-08-2009, 08:17 PM
@ airgunner .22
assalam-o-alikum
i dont think u will get other international brands other than GAMO (spainsh) and diana .....
but no doubt GAMO has a good name in market...y dont u buy it online it can easily be shipped through US...for the sake of variety u will get wider range there plus the money factor air rifle there starts from $50 and so on ....i also got my webley from Uk ...

Mumar
20-08-2009, 08:22 PM
@ kage fox
assalam-o-alikum
wht are using for oiling ?exterior only not interior
for barrel?
some one told me to use pure coco nut oil to prevent it from Zang some told me to use gun oil?
are these thing correct to use it on gun

Mumar
20-08-2009, 08:24 PM
@ Enigmatic Desires
yes easily with .22 cal dont know abt .177...?

KageFox
20-08-2009, 08:25 PM
I just spray some Brunox into a cloth, and give the barrel and the dovetails a good rub, especially after a humid shooting session. Inside the gun, I've no idea.

Btw, card dashboard polish works well on polymer stocks.

Mumar
20-08-2009, 08:56 PM
@ kagefox
wht is this Brunox ? is it solution to prevent from rust?but i have wooden stock no polymer

KageFox
20-08-2009, 09:00 PM
A gun lubricant. Black-orange can. My dad got it from Tayabally. Sort of like WD-40.

Mumar
20-08-2009, 09:36 PM
@ kage fox
do let me know the prices i want it for my gun? is it specially for Air Rifle or all kinds of Weapons?
thnz man u help me alot:)

KageFox
20-08-2009, 09:42 PM
sorry bro, can't help there. Dad doesn't remember. :(

MIdreesTaj
20-08-2009, 09:50 PM
lubricants and anti-rust apllicants are 2 different things..
WD40 is a looserner/cleaner better and less a lubricant.. and yet its not a specialized lubricant.
try to find something better serve a lubricant in firearms.. WD40 is not an antirust.. even if its applied metal can still rust with time and its proven in tests conducted by international firarms community...
for air riflles..non-volatile/uncombustible fluids ONLY be used. All other oils are a BIG NO!
combustible oils inside chamber/cylinder are death to your rifle. they result in excessive pressures inside cylinder which can damage the cylinder seal(which is usually rubber/leather)

a deiseling rifle, which gives out smoke on everyshot is a result of wrong lubrication. deiseling is a sign of damage being done to the poor rifle, and it adversely affects accuracy and also the consistency of power driving each pellet...

MAINSPRING or cocking spring should not be dry(to avoid rusting) but should be greased with graphite / or silicon as suggested by members.. both types of lubricants can be availed from petroleum markets in pakistan.

oiling should solely be done on all external parts of an air-rifle.

KageFox
20-08-2009, 10:13 PM
Any idea about price/ brand names of graphite/ silicon lubricants?

MIdreesTaj
20-08-2009, 10:25 PM
Any idea about price/ brand names of graphite/ silicon lubricants?

Fox its a no brand stuff... chemical markets which sell industrial chemicals and products have it.. i purchased 1/2 KG of silicone gel for RS 150 4 years ago.. i only once applied it on Shadow's main spring, never had to re-apply it, bcuz it never dried and is continously lubricating it as well.. and good thing is, its not combustible.

KageFox
20-08-2009, 10:29 PM
Did you have to remove the stock to do that? or just through the gap in front of the stock??

Hamid
21-08-2009, 12:11 AM
Isnt silicone gel for sealing things?

Turumti
21-08-2009, 02:01 AM
lubricants and anti-rust apllicants are 2 different things..
WD40 is a looserner/cleaner better and less a lubricant.. and yet its not a specialized lubricant.
try to find something better serve a lubricant in firearms.. WD40 is not an antirust.. even if its applied metal can still rust with time and its proven in tests conducted by international firarms community...
for air riflles..non-volatile/uncombustible fluids ONLY be used. All other oils are a BIG NO!
combustible oils inside chamber/cylinder are death to your rifle. they result in excessive pressures inside cylinder which can damage the cylinder seal(which is usually rubber/leather)

a deiseling rifle, which gives out smoke on everyshot is a result of wrong lubrication. deiseling is a sign of damage being done to the poor rifle, and it adversely affects accuracy and also the consistency of power driving each pellet...

MAINSPRING or cocking spring should not be dry(to avoid rusting) but should be greased with graphite / or silicon as suggested by members.. both types of lubricants can be availed from petroleum markets in pakistan.

oiling should solely be done on all external parts of an air-rifle.

Finally, a man who knows his airguns. Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried tuning a spring powered gun? The closest I have ever gotten was isntalling a Jim Maccari mainspring and spring guide in my HW30. But having said that I am sorely tempted to get a Chinese HW95 copy and try and tune that, and possibly replace with the mainspring, spring guide and piston with an aftermarket kit from Maccari or Bowket.

Enigmatic Desires
21-08-2009, 03:26 AM
@ Enigmatic Desires
yes easily with .22 cal dont know abt .177...?

Is the calibre available in air pistols?

Airgunner.22
21-08-2009, 08:14 AM
Silicone grease is ideal. It is used in most machinery like sewing machines and wrist watches. If you can't find this, try getting SINGER oil. This is highly pure and is the best oil to use. It is also called "machine ka tail".

Most guns come with this for the main spring. My diana mod 35 came with this oil as standard. So did all of my local rifles.

@turumti: Sir, where did you see the copies of these rifles? And, the after market kits?

Khalidsh
21-08-2009, 10:15 AM
Dear Kagefox ... Silicone based lubricants are history now. As tests have been made and reveal that they tend to produce glue like substance after a while which is a no no thing for a gun. Would recommend not using them.

Any idea about price/ brand names of graphite/ silicon lubricants?

KageFox
21-08-2009, 12:08 PM
Thanks for clarification, guys.

MIdreesTaj
21-08-2009, 09:24 PM
@Turumti

HW95 is a hell of a fine rifle.. but its better to do lab stuff with chinese copy :) well due to lack of resources in our country.. anyway i would love to add that famous maccari's tune-up kits. get a trigger job done and replace mainspring.. ive never done that and where did u get that stuff from?

MIdreesTaj
21-08-2009, 09:25 PM
@KageFox
i removed the stock.. but did not open the main receiver tube..

takenleader
21-08-2009, 09:31 PM
salam . I guess gun lubes are being discussed in this forum. Well sir one of my friend has a special gun lube its in a 4 liter tin pack and has a name "ZAKAL" written on it. Army Tuff i guess

KageFox
21-08-2009, 10:00 PM
Idrees bhai, absolutely right. Any experiments should be done on stuff you wouldn't really care about losing.

Turumti
22-08-2009, 03:56 AM
@Turumti

HW95 is a hell of a fine rifle.. but its better to do lab stuff with chinese copy :) well due to lack of resources in our country.. anyway i would love to add that famous maccari's tune-up kits. get a trigger job done and replace mainspring.. ive never done that and where did u get that stuff from?

I got my stuff from the US. Mail order, arrived at my doorstep.

Airgunner.22
22-08-2009, 10:09 AM
Thats sweet. You used UPS? And also, which site/catalogue did you use?

Turumti
22-08-2009, 05:42 PM
Thats sweet. You used UPS? And also, which site/catalogue did you use?

This was made possible through the good offices of a friend in the US. He sent me the goods via USPS, the whole thing cost me about USD 80.00. but this was 5 years back.

PrivateEye
15-09-2009, 07:37 PM
Guys any idea of prices for Shadow 1000, Hunter 440, Diana 45 .. not asking for exact price but just an idea.
And any other recommendations, it any :)

KageFox
15-09-2009, 07:42 PM
Shadow 1000 - Around 20K

Hunter 440 (if available) will be slightly more expensive - Features are more or less the same as the Shadow except the micrometric rear sights and the wooden stock.

Don't have any idea about the Diana, but a safe guess would be somewhere around 45K.

International Arms and Shaheen Traders in Saddar are pretty good for airguns.

PrivateEye
16-09-2009, 04:55 AM
Thank you KageFox .. And what about the optics? i know airgun scopes must be one piece due to Two-way jerk that airguns create. Can u suggest a decent powered scope that doest need to be zeroed often.

KageFox
16-09-2009, 08:53 AM
Not so sure about the optics. I haven't really seen airgun-specific scopes around. A few members have used a Tasco 3-9x40mm scope (priced ~ 3.5K) and have mixed opinions about it. I am currently using a Chinese 4x20mm. It has gone through about a little less than 50 shots without needing to be re-zeroed, but the view is awful (as expected of a 4x).

PrivateEye
16-09-2009, 06:56 PM
hmm..
thank you KF :)

aq4530ba
06-10-2009, 05:18 PM
I feel that the prices for air-guns are wayyy to high.. 35-40k for an air-gun is just not worth it... (at least in my opinion) I went to DAAD today and they were giving me a gamo air gun for 20k... And a Diana 45 for 47k.. Steep as ever.. might aswell give a little more and get a 0.22 rifle... :S

Regards

Abu Al Hawl
06-10-2009, 05:21 PM
aq, buddy, air rifles are fun you cant compare ammunition with pellets and having a power full air gun like Diana all time fun game

Salahuddin Ayubi
06-10-2009, 07:04 PM
Shadow 1000 - Around 20K

Hunter 440 (if available) will be slightly more expensive - Features are more or less the same as the Shadow except the micrometric rear sights and the wooden stock.

Don't have any idea about the Diana, but a safe guess would be somewhere around 45K.

International Arms and Shaheen Traders in Saddar are pretty good for airguns.

Final Negotiated Prices of early Sept last month on Mainsfield Street, Saddar (particularly at Shaheen = if it is that small open shop on the left a little ahead on the street) were as follows:

Gamo Carbine Sport = Rs. 16,900/-
Gamo Shadow 1000 = Rs. 18,500/-
Gamo Viper = Rs. 21,500/-

However, these were one of the least prices that I got from there. Others were around 1k - 1.5k higher. I liked the young guy at Shaheen. Really helpful and cooperative lad. Recommend them if you're looking for AirGun related stuff.

Met Khalidsh in one of the shops too.

Other rates at Shaheen: Chinese Airgun (Model B2-4) 500fps = Rs. 4,300/- with Tasco 4x20 Scope. Bought one for my younger (17 yr old) brother.

Here's the Chinese AirGun's snap:

http://www.postimage.org/Ts2k50PJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

KageFox
06-10-2009, 07:28 PM
Could you post specs and a few pics of your Tasco scope? It'll be much appreciated

Salahuddin Ayubi
06-10-2009, 07:39 PM
Could you post specs and a few pics of your Tasco scope? It'll be much appreciated

The Tasco scope needs re-zeroing every 50-60 shots. The image quality (ie., lens quality) is 5/10. It's ok for a beginner like my brother who in a month's time is now able to hit 7/10 times in one inch hole from 20 yards = 60 feet.

I have a park just opposite my house which remains closed most parts of the day and I happen to have the gate's spare key. Two week's back using the Tasco Scope I was able to hit the lamp post at approximately 45 yards = 135 feet 4/5 times. Using magnum pro pellet, I 'accidently' broke the glass of the lamp post at 20 yards. My bad.

However, my personal experience (which I really find surprising) is that both mine and my brother's accuracy at 20 yards with Gamo Match Pellets (using scope) is 90%, while with the Gamo Magnum Pro it's around 50% - 60%. What about other air gunners? What's your experience.

For it's dirt cheap price and for young beginners, the scope gets a 7/10 from me.

As for pic, please see above.

Dr Hanif Malik
06-10-2009, 08:19 PM
hy respectfull members i have dessi airgun sargodha made very power ful 1000 f/s mv like diana,beman etc i shoot dove.pigeons on day shooting up to 60 pieces firing about 80 to 90 pellets, gun made by nasirudin and sons arm dlrs sargodha

Kamran_uk75
06-10-2009, 08:42 PM
hy respectfull members i have dessi airgun sargodha made very power ful 1000 f/s mv like diana,beman etc i shoot dove.pigeons on day shooting up to 60 pieces firing about 80 to 90 pellets, gun made by nasirudin and sons arm dlrs sargodha

+1 Dr. Hanif Malik
I used to have an airgun made by nasirudin & sons in past, they make good airguns.

Airgunner.22
06-10-2009, 08:56 PM
Pity you can't get them here in Karachi.

KageFox
06-10-2009, 09:01 PM
I think when you switch from Match to Pro Mag, a slight adjustment in elevation is required. I zeroed my Shadow with Match and had it hitting 20 consecutive shots within 1 inch at a range of 10-15m. The Pro Mag I have not really tested on paper, but have placed shots on objects accurately to upto ~50yards (or more, can't really judge distance).

I have a similar 4x20 scope. Have gone through about 50 shots, holding zero so far, though it is pretty much useless for killing lizards at dusk (view too dark). Zeroing it was quite a pain, but got it in the end, which is why I'm in no mood to dismount the scope anytime soon...

aq4530ba
07-10-2009, 08:46 AM
@Salahuddin Ayubi,

Physics states that two bodies, may it be a feather and brick, if left from a building (taking height as a constant) will accelerate at the same rate to the ground and reach the ground at exactly the same moment in time; However this is only true if we ignore air resistance. Now think about the verticle component of velocity of both bullets. imagine they are both fired from a point say, 45degrees to the horizontal... It is common sense then that the heavier slug (here the magnum) will be accelerated more towards the ground due to gravity. Thus meaning that the projectile drops to the ground significantly earlier than the light magnum. (resulting in less range).

Putting an end to the physics lesson:P, I would suggest that you adjust the rear sight elevator so that when you use the magnum, You aim a little above the target at hand, (Taking into account the range that you think the projectile needs to cover before hitting the target.)

Hope this was of help to you.

Regards

Salahuddin Ayubi
07-10-2009, 08:05 PM
@Salahuddin Ayubi,

Physics states that two bodies, may it be a feather and brick, if left from a building (taking height as a constant) will accelerate at the same rate to the ground and reach the ground at exactly the same moment in time; However this is only true if we ignore air resistance. Now think about the verticle component of velocity of both bullets. imagine they are both fired from a point say, 45degrees to the horizontal... It is common sense then that the heavier slug (here the magnum) will be accelerated more towards the ground due to gravity. Thus meaning that the projectile drops to the ground significantly earlier than the light magnum. (resulting in less range).

Putting an end to the physics lesson:P, I would suggest that you adjust the rear sight elevator so that when you use the magnum, You aim a little above the target at hand, (Taking into account the range that you think the projectile needs to cover before hitting the target.)

Hope this was of help to you.

Regards

That's why I chose commerce/finance and went on to become a CA. Much easier for me that Physics and Chemistry. hehehe

Thanks bro and KageFox too. I understand. Will make the necessary adjustment.

Surprisingly, i don't need this adjustment on my Shadow1000 at 20-25 yards. Just on the Chinese airgun.

Airgunner.22
07-10-2009, 11:39 PM
Cause the shadow is VERY powerful :cool:

Salahuddin Ayubi
08-10-2009, 11:16 AM
Cause the shadow is VERY powerful :cool:

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