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View Full Version : Opinion: Semi auto vs Pump Action for HD



Dr Zakir
16-08-2009, 12:36 PM
can esteemed members advise about what to have for HD semi auto or pump . and also which models and makes

12GAUGE
16-08-2009, 12:55 PM
can esteemed members advise about what to have for HD semi auto or pump . and also which models and makes

AoA Dr. Sahib

i'm assuming we are talking about shotguns (semi or pump). for HD role the most saught after attributes of any firearm are:


1. firearm with repeating capability
2. firearm with action as simple as possible
3. lesser moving parts the better
4. idiot proof cycling mechanism
5. insensitivity to maintenance
6. higher shot capability, a.k.a. bigger magazine the better
7. insensitivity to load

keeping all above in mind, the most recommended weapon (shotgun only) for HD role is a Pump action shotgun. why? cause:

1. it repeats (pump action repeating cycle)
2. extremely simple cycling mechanism
3. totally idiot proof, pump/rack the slide and ur ready to rock and roll
4. virtually maintenance free, lubricate or not, clean or not, it will go bang!
5. higher shot magazine (can be upto 8+1 in some models)
6. absolutely insensitive to loads, cycling is done by muscle power instead of gas or recoil forces
7. with practice, cycling is almost as fast as a semi auto shotgun.
8. lesser moving parts, hence lesser chance of a part failure.


TO SUMMARIZE:

ur HD shotgun is supposed to sit for extended periods of time, collect dirt, rust a little bit, totally neglected but when the need arises, it is supposed to go bang without any hickups.

Regards

KageFox
16-08-2009, 12:58 PM
Given the choice, I would go for a pump-action. Simple reason: less chance of jamming. I know that today's semi-auto shotguns as extremely reliable and can handle much abuse, compared to those of yesteryear, but being an automatic mechanical device, it can fail. The functions of a pump-action are directly in the hands of the user.

If possible, my choice would be a Mossberg 500, with pistol grip and magazine plug to enhance capacity, as well as a spare shell holder on the forearm or stock.

12GAUGE
16-08-2009, 01:03 PM
If possible, my choice would be a Mossberg 500, with pistol grip and magazine plug to enhance capacity, as well as a spare shell holder on the forearm or stock.


good choice there buddy, however magazine plugs limit the shot capability to 2 rounds (2+1) and pistol grip is for movies only. always go for a proper buttstock if u can.

Regards

KageFox
16-08-2009, 01:43 PM
Sorry, meant to say, magazine extender (am a little rusty on shotgun terms) :)

As for pistol grip, I meant the one with pistol grip and stock, something like this


http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/566/30093449.th.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1rBVo0)

Would this be suitable, or would a regular rifle style stock be much better?

12GAUGE
16-08-2009, 01:49 PM
Sorry, meant to say, magazine extender (am a little rusty on shotgun terms) :)

As for pistol grip, I meant the one with pistol grip and stock, something like this


http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/566/30093449.th.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1rBVo0)

Would this be suitable, or would a regular rifle style stock be much better?


basically its a matter of preferance, but a pistol grip buttstock is awesome looking for sure.


Regards

Xerga
16-08-2009, 02:14 PM
i think, pump action is more suitable than a semi auto.

i have seen mossberg, volcanic and akkar pump actions. they shud be fine for said purpose.

Enigmatic Desires
16-08-2009, 03:19 PM
Given the choice, I would go for a pump-action. Simple reason: less chance of jamming. I know that today's semi-auto shotguns as extremely reliable and can handle much abuse, compared to those of yesteryear, but being an automatic mechanical device, it can fail. The functions of a pump-action are directly in the hands of the user.

If possible, my choice would be a Mossberg 500, with pistol grip and magazine plug to enhance capacity, as well as a spare shell holder on the forearm or stock.


If U use a plug then u'd better have a shell holder U know

Ahmad
16-08-2009, 03:27 PM
pump actions works fine for me for the reasons very well defined by 12 gauge

Slayerjatt
16-08-2009, 03:57 PM
i thought everyone would say a semi-auto.:o

Dr Zakir
16-08-2009, 04:02 PM
Thankyou guys for nice info . I have a pump a real nice piece courtesy of 12 gauge

Denovo87
16-08-2009, 04:10 PM
Thankyou guys for nice info . I have a pump a real nice piece courtesy of 12 gauge

Congratulations Dr. sahib... No specs, no price, no pics, no Mithai ??????

CougarMan
16-08-2009, 04:37 PM
IMHO, the best gun for HD is a double barreled shotgun.

Take it to a gun smith and have him cut the barrels down. Easy to use, devastatingly effective and no user problems. Lowest chance of something going wrong with the mechanism, and you will have two triggers for an instant second shot. If you are already a hunter, reloading is not an issue and you will be more familiar with the weapon already. It can be loaded and unloaded instantly.

And for those doubters, do a search on youtube and see Clint Smith use a SINGLE barreled shotgun for home defense.

Its not about what you have, it about how you use it.

KageFox
16-08-2009, 04:56 PM
@CougarMan: To a certain extent, I agree. I have seen Clint Smith's videos, and I must say, they are very practical. Unfortunately, in a stressful situation, all the training goes out of the window, and you only have your instincts to rely on. Don't get me wrong, I still believe that a double-barrel is pretty good for home defense (as its reliability and 2nd shot capability are quite impressive), but it's all a matter of comfort. If I am faced with multiple assailants, nothing would be better than a pump with 7 shots in my hands

CougarMan
16-08-2009, 06:42 PM
@CougarMan: To a certain extent, I agree. I have seen Clint Smith's videos, and I must say, they are very practical. Unfortunately, in a stressful situation, all the training goes out of the window, and you only have your instincts to rely on.

All the more reason to have as simple a manual of arms as possible. Operating a pump under a stressful situation can be very difficult unless you have regularly put hundreds of rounds through it. Most weekend warriors are not going to do that, and neither are they going to practice FTF/FTE drills.

Also, you should train for a stressful situation, so that when you are in it, your training kicks in, rather than "instincts".

Use what you are comfortable with, but that's my opinion.

KageFox
16-08-2009, 06:56 PM
Use what you are comfortable with, but that's my opinion.

My exact thoughts sir. Many among us would be more comfortable with a semi-auto; just pull back the cocking lever, release, and you're ready. IMHO, best home defense is with the weapon you are most familiar with, be it rifle, handgun or shotgun.

Sharp Shooter
16-08-2009, 07:13 PM
I would go with a semi auto and the choice would be a Baikal for sure. Never seen any thing more durable than that.

I 100% agree with cougerman as operating a pump action under stress is a HELL of a headache and can force the user to get down. Its true that practice makes a man perfect but at the end of the day..... lets face the reality. How many of us have practiced in a regular manner on our firearms and how many of us can afford extensive practice like they do in the army or an SSG unit?? NONE i believe. I ve heard people getting a mental block in tensed situation and resultantly failing to fire.

Anyhow..... I do not generalize this to any1 as no two individuals are alike and so is the behavior in different situations.

MHMalik
16-08-2009, 08:54 PM
Theoretically= auto loader

Practical = pump

But if your auto is reliable it beats a pump any day as you can lay 3 00-buck shots while the other is racking the pump.
Thats 9 X 3 = 27 vs 9 projectiles.

on the other hand the pump looks cool ( think arnold racking the pump with jerking his arm).

Pumps are also prone to jamming and I wouldnt consider them 100 percent reliable, but 95. Autos are 80 percent at best.

But then again thats why you have a secondary weapon.

So go with what you are more comfortable and shoot better. Both are good, both deadly. Question is do you train hard enough with what you have?

P.S I prefer autoloader

Slayerjatt
16-08-2009, 10:46 PM
it's good to know that some members share my choice too. i would certainly prefer an autoloader.

Enigmatic Desires
17-08-2009, 01:58 AM
AN auto loader for the perfectly simple reason that under extreme stress such as the kind generated by a 'corpse an cartridge' affair... The human mind has the capability of going into full panic mode..

Some of us may even forget to pump the action but may well end up pressing the trigger again an again spastically..

Seems unlikely.. But I know from personal experience that blind unreasoning panic is presisely that. I.e Blind & unreasoning!

Hamid
17-08-2009, 02:29 AM
Thankyou guys for nice info . I have a pump a real nice piece courtesy of 12 gauge

So you got that beauty. Congrats sir.

Sohail
17-08-2009, 11:20 AM
very nice Dr Sahib, infact that was in my mind and i am bit inclined toward pump action as the chambering is more focused as compare to semi. i have one semi and i really want again to get hold on any good pump for HD.

regards

Sohail
17-08-2009, 11:20 AM
very nice Dr Sahib, infact that was in my mind and i am bit inclined toward pump action as the chambering is more focused as compare to semi. i have one semi and i really want again to get hold on any good pump for HD.

regards