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View Full Version : .30 Bore effectiveness



Silent killerr
01-08-2009, 06:50 PM
How effective is .30 single shot, i mean how many shots it take to stop or kill someone in self defense?

KageFox
01-08-2009, 07:34 PM
Depends on where you hit. Stopping power is usually considered a myth. Generally speaking, bigger and moderate velocity is better than smaller and high velocity, reason being that a high velocity, relatively smaller caliber bullet like the .30 tends to zip through fleshier parts of the human body, without doing much damage, as compared to, say a .45 or a 9mm.

IMHO, you can stop anyone with any bullet, as long as you hit the right place. Number of shots taken can never be justified, as there have been reports from people dying from a single .22 bullet. I also recall reading a report in an old Handguns magazine, in which a criminal survived a couple of magazine-fulls of 9mm, a couple of 12G shotshells and was only taken down with a heavy deer slug which smashed his heart.

As this is a topic about .30, I must say that this caliber has plenty of range potential and can hit targets farther away than the other average handgun calibers. It is among the fastest semi-auto pistol calibers, the others being 5.7x28mm, the .38 Super and the .357 Sig.

Usama
01-08-2009, 08:42 PM
I think there might be other factors which depends upon its effectiveness like wind direction,range,quality of ammo used..
even contributing to a very negligible percentage..

Hamid
02-08-2009, 12:00 AM
Some member on PG have put it very nicely,

Placing your bullets at right place matters the most.

I have seen a guy surviving a 7mm bullet injury in lower abdomen.

Denovo87
02-08-2009, 12:06 AM
How effective is .30 single shot, i mean how many shots it take to stop or kill someone in self defense?

Single shot can kill/stop the BG instantly if put right in the head, heart, lung or even hit the spinal cord.

KageFox
02-08-2009, 12:22 AM
Wind direction does not affect the bullet at the ranges pistol combat occurs (Close Quarter Combat). Only applies to long range rifle shooting or target shooting with lighter weight bullets.

Range, of course, as with increase in range, decrease in velocity, decrease in bullet energy {Kinetic Energy = (0.5) x (Mass) x [(Velocity)squared)]}; more or less stopping power depending on caliber, and how much energy the bullet had in the first place (muzzle energy). (Sorry for the physics part)

Quality of ammo, meaning ball ammo or hollow points does contribute to stopping power, though this factor also relates to penetration.

Dr Zakir
02-08-2009, 12:44 AM
+1 kage fox it could not have been put any better

mehranbiz
02-08-2009, 12:53 AM
Last time when we some friends visit to a in interior sindh there I experienced with .30 caliber Zastava with chinese shots, At 35-40 meter the bullet make a hole in iron steel sheet and cross it, And at the 70-75 meter on wall the bullet scratch the cement from wall, I think 70-75 meter is also very dangerous for any human, But Pak made .30 calliber clone handgun result was less

KageFox
02-08-2009, 01:03 AM
I am guessing that the difference in quality of the barrels of Zastava and Pakistani models would have most likely caused the difference, bcos, as far as I know, barrel length of all TTs are same.

mehranbiz
02-08-2009, 01:43 AM
I am guessing that the difference in quality of the barrels of Zastava and Pakistani models would have most likely caused the difference, bcos, as far as I know, barrel length of all TTs are same.

I agree with you..But its very awful that our manufacturers trying to make the copies but not caring about the qualiities

KageFox
02-08-2009, 02:05 AM
Quality control is the downfall of many of our local manufacturers...

Ilyas
02-08-2009, 02:27 AM
I agree with you..But its very awful that our manufacturers trying to make the copies but not caring about the qualiities

We all know that quality comes at a price, but how many people would be willing to pay the same amount for a local pistol which is comparable with Taurus, Stoeger or Norinco etc. For example if someone is offered a local copy of PT99 or PT92 for 50k, that is equally good as the ones from Taurus, how many people do you think would go for this deal. Many would prefer to pay a few thousand extra but get the original ones. I think this consumer attitude keeps the maufacturers away from investing any extra amount on quality, as they are not sure about the return on this extra investment. Therefore they are forced to focus on their market segment, which needs low quality and low priced items.

Xerga
02-08-2009, 02:36 AM
its effective enough, i mean .30 cal pistol. if bullet is placed on the right spot. in many cases ( during police duties ) i have seen dead bodies with one shot kill. and most importantly i want to add something here, that some over 70/80 meters distance single bullet caused death. its definitly not like how many shots are required to kill some one :), a person can be killed with 1 shot if bullet has FATAL direction.

rgds

Enigmatic Desires
02-08-2009, 04:24 AM
considering the number of people killed by this calibre in Karach and indeed the rest of Pakistan.


This particular calibre contributes to the deaths of quite literally thousands of people here. BGs.. Security gurads common man. one an all put their faith in the .30 as the weapon of choice

KageFox
02-08-2009, 08:53 AM
This caliber causes the most casualties as it has been here in Pakistan for quite a long time, longer than 9mm and others. Being so common, its used by BDs and police alike. A tactical instructor at the Karsaz Range (on my first and only visit, unfortunately) told me that there was even a number of especially made Tokarevs, made in China, for the Pakistani special forces, back in the 80s

Skeeter60
02-08-2009, 10:24 AM
no Chinese Tokeraves were ever made or issued to Pak special forces

Dr Zakir
02-08-2009, 10:43 AM
.30 is ammo and gun are cheaper and easily available so BG use them as even if you shoot or kill somebody just throw the piece and get a new one no problem other was people using on Ariel firing at marriages then againt quite cost effective
it has became a signature for Pakistan so I am keeping my tt .

Rizshu
02-08-2009, 11:09 AM
.30 weapon and ammo is a good thing for SD.

KageFox
02-08-2009, 11:15 AM
I agree with the choice in ammo, but if your chosen weapon is the Tokarev, I beg to differ. No doubt it is a good weapon in its own right, but the matter remains that the TT cannot be carried in full readiness mode with a loaded chamber as it is pretty unsafe. However, if you keep the gun for HD and keep it magazine full, unchambered, then, its not a problem.

HasanJamshad
02-08-2009, 12:01 PM
.30 bore or 7.62x25 is very effective as everybody has mentioned this and number of bullets needed to kill only depends on where the shot would hit. Leave this bullet aside much smaller bullets like .17Mach2 have enough energy, penetration and wound size to kill any humanbeing. This bullet is known for overpanitration and armour piercing that is because of higher velocity ranging from 1300fps to 1700fps and lighter, slimmer projectile otherwise this bullet has energy levels close to 9mm.

KageFox
02-08-2009, 12:14 PM
That being the case, even pellets can kill at relatively shorter ranges...

KageFox
02-08-2009, 12:17 PM
no Chinese Tokeraves were ever made or issued to Pak special forces

Maybe the guy was just bragging then; sorry for the wrong info.

Though he did have a nicely tricked out Tokarev, with a stainless style finish to the slide and frame, and black trigger, hammer and sights, complete with a Hogue universal grip sleeve. Told us that the gun had been refinished to prevent rusting. Looked pretty cool to me. :D

Mohammad
02-08-2009, 02:46 PM
the 7.62x25mm calibre is high in enery and usually over penetrates. The best thing is to use serbian 7.62x25 mm JHP's. They will do the job for u.

KageFox
02-08-2009, 02:52 PM
Whats the price difference of regular ball ammo compared to the Serbian JHPs?

Ilyas
02-08-2009, 03:05 PM
TT cannot be carried in full readiness mode with a loaded chamber as it is pretty unsafe.
Bro, will you plz elaborate how it is unsafe?

KageFox
02-08-2009, 03:31 PM
Note that the key word is carried. The TT does not have a firing pin safety. With the hammer down, the hammer and firing pin rest, more or less, on the bullet primer. A bump to the hammer can set off the round. Plus the Tok has absolutely no manual safety.

My reference is an article about the Tokarev in the May 1991 issue of Handguns Magazine.

Also note Posts 9 and 10 in this thread: http://www.pakguns.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1686

I don't know about you but this is enough to dissuade me from keeping the TT hammer down, chambered. Such an accident can happen even with finger off the trigger.

Memon
02-08-2009, 03:37 PM
I also got advice from seniors, go for .30 bore for conceal carry .............. kindly give comments.

Brother KageFox, how u say it is pretty unsafe.

Regards,

Sialvi
02-08-2009, 03:49 PM
but u can keep the TT's hammer down at half cock position so the hammer doesnt' rest on the firing pin hence avoiding undesireable discharge.

Memon
02-08-2009, 03:59 PM
@KageFox

Brother ......... got your msg ............ thanks a lot.

Regards,

Ilyas
02-08-2009, 04:01 PM
Plus the Tok has absolutely no manual safety.
My reference is an article about the Tokarev in the May 1991 issue of Handguns Magazine.

Personally I don't like carrying a gun on me at all unless I'm forced to do so due to some reason, secondly I would never go for a bullet in the chamber.

As far as the manual safety on a TT is concerned, there's one on mine. However I'm still not sure if it is enough for the
cocked n locked carry.

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3900/32198340.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)


http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/5429/59752083.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

KageFox
02-08-2009, 04:10 PM
Nice one. Where'd you get it from? I am guessing its forward for safe, backward for fire. Do test the reliability of the safety sometime.

Enigmatic Desires
02-08-2009, 04:14 PM
1st time I saw a veriation of hte TT with a manual safety..I fooled aropund wiht the half cock bit of a Chinese TT..


Not something I would want to bet my life on..

A gr8 round like the .30 should be mated to a high quality fore arm.. such as the ones offered in 99mm..

Unfortunately except for the TT I have never seen any foreign made .30 handgun.

How ever a Chinese revolver for the .30 was available for around 30K

Ilyas
02-08-2009, 04:23 PM
It has been with me for around 20yrs. You are right it's forward safe n backward fire. How would you suggest me to check it's reliability? Hope you don't suggest actually loading one in the chamber and then throwing it down on a concrete floor from 5-6 feet ;)

KageFox
02-08-2009, 04:24 PM
The other pistol designed for the 7.62x25mm was the CZ52, definitely a lot better gun than the Tok. Single-action, manual safety, decocker, better looking, built to handle pressures that would blow the Tokarev apart. This one gun, I believe, fully does justice to the 7.62x25mm cartridge. The Czechs had very interesting ways of fulfilling Warsaw Pact requirements, as demonstrated by the CZ52 and the Kalashnikov look-alike, VZ58

Here's a factory custom CZ52:

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/8871/37181630.th.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1gcUxS)

Faisal Khan
05-08-2009, 09:39 AM
.30 bore or 7.62x25 is known for its high velocity and Armour piercing capabilities as mentioned in the previous post by Hasan Jamshad. I have few in my collection and found them to be an excellent CCW due to their slim profile. Polish tokarev is considered to be the best among all others. Safety has never been an issue with round chambered and hammer in half cocked position ( I do not know about Desi made) Here are the pictures of my Polish and Romanian Tokarevs, both are equipped with manual safety levers.


TT-33 Made in Poland

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt1/Goldentiger77/pix268088078.jpg

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt1/Goldentiger77/tt007.jpg

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt1/Goldentiger77/tt004.jpg


Tokarev, Made in Romania
http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt1/Goldentiger77/husna001.jpg

Monis
05-08-2009, 10:20 AM
Very nice pitols

KageFox
05-08-2009, 11:31 AM
Nice pistols Faisal Bhai. Plus the location of the safety is quite good.

One question: Did the pistol originally have the safety, or it was inserted for import?

Enigmatic Desires
05-08-2009, 02:05 PM
If I recollect correctly the original TTs did'nt have manual safety at all.. an indeed most dont do so even today..

Khalidsh
05-08-2009, 04:05 PM
Nice Guns Indeed.

Silent killerr
07-08-2009, 02:41 PM
i like this pistol

KageFox
07-08-2009, 02:53 PM
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8826/65753460.th.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxSx3xS)

Found this image on a gun forum. A Yugo M57 TT, with what is apparently 1911-style thumb safety.

Enigmatic Desires
07-08-2009, 03:44 PM
people have bee doin stuff to TTS for almost as long as the colt 1911 ACP..

I am sure these 2 are the most widely molested pistols in history

:D

KageFox
07-08-2009, 04:33 PM
The TT was designed with the 1911 as the base, however, the Russian engineers conveniently forgot major safety components.

Enigmatic Desires
07-08-2009, 05:31 PM
The TT was designed with the 1911 as the base, however, the Russian engineers conveniently forgot major safety components.

The red army connsidered foot soldiers to be expendable. its lack of safely meant many a red ended up in the hospital with his feet shot off!!

The officers compared their TT to the Walthers p 38s an Walter PPKs .. an realized they need something a lot less crude. an hence the mak was born

KageFox
07-08-2009, 05:51 PM
They could simply have redesigned the TT as the 7.62x25mm was a very good battle round. Btw, the original design for the Tokarev, the TT-30, was not sooo crude. But the war started and changes were made to the design to speed up the manufacturing process, giving the world (or the Red Army, at that time) the TT-33.

Enigmatic Desires
08-08-2009, 03:20 AM
The calibre is powerful enough. but the TT with its awkword handle an lack of safety features.. couldn't really do justice to it.. The .30 is a very powerful pistol calibre indeed.. and that's why few manufacturers (other then our Darra ustads) are manufacturing the weapons that fire this cartridge

hskhan2k2
25-11-2010, 04:34 AM
depends boss all depends some time 1 shot 1 kill some time soo many shot with no harm....thanx

Enigmatic Desires
28-11-2010, 02:44 AM
as a general rule goin by newspaper reports.. when some1 gets shot with a TT. He usually stays down

mehranbiz
03-12-2010, 11:02 PM
I think if any director or respresentative of Zastava arms Serbia have visited in this section of pakguns and see public intrest in .30 caliber 7.62x25 they must have to modify and improve our Zastava M57 handgun with additional safety and high capacity double stack magazine for Pakistan market

Faisji
04-12-2010, 08:19 AM
I think if any director or respresentative of Zastava arms Serbia have visited in this section of pakguns and see public intrest in .30 caliber 7.62x25 they must have to modify and improve our Zastava M57 handgun with additional safety and high capacity double stack magazine for Pakistan market

you wishing or informing ?

Silent killerr
04-12-2010, 09:23 AM
you wishing or informing ?

Obviously, wishing

mehranbiz
04-12-2010, 10:34 PM
I am wishing for a 17 shots imported handgun from Zastava or from any other manufacturer with safety functions

Enigmatic Desires
07-12-2010, 08:54 PM
an while we are at it. I want to c a low recoil high mag capacity .30 thats small enough to cc an has an accessory rail as well

PUNJTANI5
23-05-2011, 08:35 PM
well 30 is very hot and it goes through the assailant like hot knife in butter
it is nost feared round in asia

one shot in chest and forget the rest

Skeeter60
24-05-2011, 01:56 AM
well 30 is very hot and it goes through the assailant like hot knife in butter
it is nost feared round in asia

one shot in chest and forget the rest

You are dead right. If he gives you a parting shot with any thing like the 9mm hollow point or a .357 you Will forget the rest

Kamranwali
24-05-2011, 02:24 AM
You are dead right. If he gives you a parting shot with any thing like the 9mm hollow point or a .357 you Will forget the rest

+100 Sir.......

@at all, why do you think that the Russians moved to 9mm?:)

P.S. I have great repsect for a TT-33, I think its one of the most influential handguns ever, I think its one of the best handguns of the 20th century....... but Alas......it has seen it days of glory..... from a handgun enthusiast's point of view a must have, but far more effective options are available.

drag80
24-05-2011, 12:11 PM
I honestly feel worried when I read / hear about the effectiveness of 30 bore pistol.

As per my limited knowledge, majority of the bad guys in our country are armed with 30 bores due to cheap price and easy availability. On the other hand majority of Good guys carry 9mm for self defense.

So If u r carrying a 200K worth Beretta and BG is carrying a 6K 30 bore, he still has superior fire power.

Thats not good.

Enigmatic Desires
29-05-2011, 05:45 AM
I honestly feel worried when I read / hear about the effectiveness of 30 bore pistol.

As per my limited knowledge, majority of the bad guys in our country are armed with 30 bores due to cheap price and easy availability. On the other hand majority of Good guys carry 9mm for self defense.


So If u r carrying a 200K worth Beretta and BG is carrying a 6K 30 bore, he still has superior fire power.

Thats not good.


If he has the drop on u rest assured he will include the 200k beretta in his arsenal :)

jonnyc
31-05-2011, 05:04 PM
I believe Zastava was required by US law to put those 1911-style safeties on M57s destined for the US market.

durrani
31-05-2011, 06:02 PM
Good guns Faisal Khan.

Mustafa Khan
07-06-2011, 12:11 PM
Some one tell me. Is Chinese .30 bore semiautomatic or manual?

Denovo87
07-06-2011, 12:20 PM
What a sweet question by a year old member & a Khan Sahib too ;) Sir ji; there is no such firearm called a MANUAL PISTOL, a pistol always is semi auto (at least).

Nisar
07-06-2011, 12:26 PM
Some one tell me. Is Chinese .30 bore semiautomatic or manual?

What do you want to ask Mustafa Khan?

Mustafa Khan
07-06-2011, 09:26 PM
@Denovo87: Thank you brother for answering my question such a nice way. ?????? I would like to inform you that i am not a expert member. Thanks

Wolf Hunter
07-06-2011, 10:12 PM
@ Mustafa khan
Brother no need to get emotional as these replies are lighter part of our forums.In fact innocents questions like u asked always bring many smiles at the end of a tense day.
Do not mix up yourself between the terms used for weaponry and other machinery. My advice is to visit google and wikipedia to clarify the difference between auto and a semi auto pistols and remaining doubts will be cleared by our friends here.

Denovo87
07-06-2011, 11:08 PM
@Denovo87: Thank you brother for answering my question such a nice way. ?????? I would like to inform you that i am not a expert member. Thanks

You are most welcome brother, we are here to help each other. And lighter remarks mixed with to the point answer are the beauty of this forum, hope I understood your question right and you my answer.

Dr Zakir
07-06-2011, 11:54 PM
Any caliber is effective if hit is at theright spot

HussainAli
08-06-2011, 12:44 PM
Any caliber is effective if hit is at the right spot

Dear Dr. Zakir Bro, Very Very Ture.................

"Its Not the Gun, But its the Hands behind the Gun" which makes the difference !!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards

Asiftt
22-06-2011, 04:54 PM
How effective is .30 single shot, i mean how many shots it take to stop or kill someone in self defense?

Dear Bro, your questions gives an impression that you doubt the power of 0.3 bore.

On the other hand to kill or stop someone , there is no perfect formula. Even the sound of a gunshot can stop someone or even kill, LOLz, people survive hitting with many heavier rounds and people are dead with a single 22 round.

Virk
26-06-2011, 01:39 AM
Chinese .30 Calibre Range is 80 to 90 meters & its very dangerous for any human. To stop or kill someone in self defense is depends where the bullet hit, according to me for Stop lower part of the body is the best & to kill Head, heart and least the chest are the options.

Silent killerr
26-06-2011, 09:25 AM
Dear Bro, your questions gives an impression that you doubt the power of 0.3 bore.

On the other hand to kill or stop someone , there is no perfect formula. Even the sound of a gunshot can stop someone or even kill, LOLz, people survive hitting with many heavier rounds and people are dead with a single 22 round.

Bro it is 9 months old thread, the time when i was new member and know nothing about guns. In 9 months i have grown up a lot at
Pakguns.

Khalil
30-06-2011, 03:07 PM
Dear all here... I am probably very late on this issue. ... nothin can match this small monster... in most parts of the world where battles have been fought... .30 was a comerade of the soldiers... and have proved its reliability.. in terms of
-- range
-- velocity.
-- easy carrying
-- fire power i.e. "knock down"
-- greater peneration i.e. more then 12" deep.

Further, JHPs are now availabe in .30 which also counting for +points in this caliber.
I have only gone th. the following review where our friend discussed all common JHPs and its impact excluding .30 JHP.

http://www.pakguns.com/content.php?219-The-New-Taurus-709-Slim-Subcompact-Review
The larger cavity (big Hole size) with slow bleeding does not result in knock down... rather its Deeper Penetration with faster Bleeding which result in fast knock down...

This phenomena can be easily explained and has a very clear resemblence with that of a wound resulting from sword and that from knife.

zeeair
20-10-2011, 02:19 AM
Personal experience tells me that a single .30 shot in abdomen area can be fatal.

Trajan
20-10-2011, 10:00 AM
Personal experience tells me that a single .30 shot in abdomen area can be fatal.

@ Zeeair: bro, all bullets shot anywhere on the body CAN be fatal :)

HussainAli
20-10-2011, 11:04 AM
Dear Zeeair Bro, What do you mean by "Personal Experince tells me" ??

And very nicely cleared Trajan Bro, Very true "Bullets Are Fatal /Lethal" if fired in driectily at any part of body.

Regards

sadatpk
04-02-2012, 11:58 PM
caliber 30 is a must have item for pakistani gun collecters

ajmal virk
05-02-2012, 01:56 PM
.30 is used by 90% pakis and it has proved it aunthecity it is really fatal handgun available easily in affordable price

virgo
18-02-2012, 01:26 PM
Trends are changing nowdays and people are switching to 9mm. The local made TT or 30 bore has damaged the authenticity of the gun. As for as realiability is concerned mostly peoples are now buying imported guns replacing 30 bore TT.

.30 is used by 90% pakis and it has proved it aunthecity it is really fatal handgun available easily in affordable price

Muhammad m
18-02-2012, 08:22 PM
A single shot is fatal in the abdomen only if it hits a major organ and is not treated instantly. Blood loss is the reason for the death.
Bt ive seen a guy survive a single shot of .30 to the abdomen, the bullet passed through.

kf7mjf
22-02-2012, 10:57 AM
Is over penetration a problem with the FMJ .30 round? That is to say, to the point of endangering others around the area should the bullet pass through an attacker?

Nazim Sahib
22-02-2012, 02:56 PM
It is over penetrative by nature but not to a degree that you should worry about knocking down several people with a single round.

taha
22-02-2012, 03:09 PM
It is over penetrative by nature but not to a degree that you should worry about knocking down several people with a single round.
That is good to hear. Just want it to serve its purpose against a BG...

Hamid
22-02-2012, 07:12 PM
It's very rare to see the .30 bullet remaining in the body. Most postmortem reports second the effectiveness of .30.

Anjum
11-03-2012, 01:01 AM
I shot a single round in a small tree (8 inchs) of hard fiber wood from about 13 to 15 meters. The bullet inters from one side and left the other and hit the wall at some 8 to 10 meters back. It is obviously over penetrative round with big bang.
here are some snaps
905590569057

Avais
11-03-2012, 08:37 PM
Very good experiment Anjum brother. The pics accelerate me to have one .30.

dragunov
13-03-2012, 08:36 PM
exactly, at-least one .30 caliber pistol we should have. its really a fun to shoot.
By the way, I have done the same experience while visiting my village a year ago. The result was same as shown in the pictures above. :-) simply a powerful round.
One thing I noticed, few local ammo types are over-charged, and causes a loud bang and powerful strike, as compared to the standard loads.
This may harmful to the weapon, need to avoid to use in expensive .30 pistols.

black arrow
13-03-2012, 10:17 PM
exactly, at-least one .30 caliber pistol we should have. its really a fun to shoot.
By the way, I have done the same experience while visiting my village a year ago. The result was same as shown in the pictures above. :-) simply a powerful round.
One thing I noticed, few local ammo types are over-charged, and causes a loud bang and powerful strike, as compared to the standard loads.
This may harmful to the weapon, need to avoid to use in expensive .30 pistols.
Posts above make me feel quite happy! For the first attempt I got a 30 bore, now if conditions prevail I am going to buy lots and lots of more arms to safe guard safety!

black arrow
13-03-2012, 10:20 PM
Very good experiment Anjum brother. The pics accelerate me to have one .30.

Avais bhai, dont you have a 30 bore yet? After all you have so many posts!

Anjum
13-03-2012, 10:31 PM
Very good experiment Anjum brother. The pics accelerate me to have one .30.

thanx brother

rajapaki
14-03-2012, 09:37 AM
@Anjum
Good test shot brother.
Once I shot down a wild boar with my chinese TT from about 10-12 yards :)

taha
14-03-2012, 09:42 AM
There are apparently few high powered airguns that can also kill wild boars at small range and small target size.

rajapaki
14-03-2012, 09:57 AM
There are apparently few high powered airguns that can also kill wild boars at small range and small target size.

Ya I know; like what RajaYasir posted today morning :)

Nisar
14-03-2012, 10:45 AM
Avais bhai, dont you have a 30 bore yet? After all you have so many posts!

What a criteria for owning a .30 bore :) Hahahah

black arrow
14-03-2012, 11:08 AM
hmmm.... that sounds rude. Better not post anything if one cannot be polite.