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Ka_Khan
19-07-2009, 08:49 PM
How many rounds you fire before you think its too hot for the barrel ?
Any idea what could happen if you keep on firing and how to cool it down?

Hamid
19-07-2009, 08:53 PM
KK, do you remember the russian guy taking torture test of his baikal mp-153. i think thats the best way of cooling a hot gun. ;)

MIdreesTaj
19-07-2009, 09:03 PM
@Ka_Khan heating up of barrel is arrant. continous fire will do that to barrel and to all barrels. Metallurgy plays a good role in this department plus there must be a limit to it, giving little rest after each round(firing session) so that it could cool down a bit sounds logical.

Conceal Carry
19-07-2009, 10:26 PM
Heating is a normal process for any firearm barrel, heat is generatred beacuse of the friction created by the snugly fit projectile through the barrel at a very high speed and secondly because of the burning charge and hot gases generated in the process.

The barrels can withstand very high temperatures without any adverse effect on either the gun or the shot accuracy. If not being fired in full auto, a normal shooting involving a shot every 2~3 seconds does not require any cooling besides the natural air cooling that it gets for 400~500 shots.

12GAUGE
19-07-2009, 11:15 PM
In shotguns, barrel heating can alter the shot pattern. how?, well, its the harmonic difference between a heated barrel and a cold barrel. it is therefore recommended not to shoot beyond the comfortable temperature zone of any barrel. it might not rupture but the temperature can significantly/adversly effect the shot pattern.

forend of any shotgun acts as the thermometer, if the forearm/forend starts to discolor due to heat, it is recommended to cease shooting immediately. (wood turns dark, polymer furniture starts to smell)

in my experience it can be anywhere within 100 to 200 consecutive shots (say with less than 5sec interval between shots).

Regards

Ka_Khan
19-07-2009, 11:47 PM
Read somewhere that if the barrel is so hot that you cant touch it,its time to give it a rest.

Conceal Carry
20-07-2009, 12:36 AM
Read somewhere that if the barrel is so hot that you cant touch it,its time to give it a rest.
Looks like some more reading is due.;)

NOMI
20-07-2009, 01:03 AM
Read somewhere that if the barrel is so hot that you cant touch it,its time to give it a rest.

bro,all weapons are not same. like ar15,g3,ak, barrel not need rest
and shotgun's barrel after fired 50 round must need rest.

Ka_Khan
20-07-2009, 09:47 AM
and shotgun's barrel after fired 50 round must need rest.

Thats the thing i was looking for ....
If the fire is continous you may give it a rest even after 20 rounds.
CC is there any indication other then barrel "too hot to handle"?

Abu Al Hawl
20-07-2009, 10:58 AM
are we gonna be at war or some thing!!!! ok i will keep a drum of cold water beside me as the barrel will get red hot i will dip it in and again be at my job tha tha tha:lol:

Topak
20-07-2009, 11:43 AM
dont worry about automatic guns as they get rest after every empty mag change......

NOMI
20-07-2009, 12:26 PM
and shotgun's barrel after fired 50 round must need rest.

Thats the thing i was looking for ....
If the fire is continous you may give it a rest even after 20 rounds.
CC is there any indication other then barrel "too hot to handle"?

bhai jan rest after only 20 rounds? i think our local shotguns no need rest befor fired 50 rounds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWsW2urXPMM

NOMI
20-07-2009, 12:50 PM
don't forget that rest need then you use continue firing with drum mag or with already loaded mag
if after every empty magazine u are loading new, this loading time is enough rest for barrel

MIdreesTaj
20-07-2009, 07:08 PM
come on guys u have grade 11 or so kind of a steel in ur barrel specially heat treated and cooked compressed.. as far as my own opinion this talk doesnt apply on pistols or revolvers.. not even semi auto rifles.. yes on submachine guns, machine guns and full auto assault rifles it is a problem to be taken care of. continous fire? like what? 200 rounds .. may be they give u an off the mark accuracy a but 500 + a bit more degraded accuracy..
yes if u talking abt more round count than that.. the barrel might glow like cookin wrought iron... then i think u need to stop..

Denovo87
20-07-2009, 07:43 PM
are we gonna be at war or some thing!!!! ok i will keep a drum of cold water beside me as the barrel will get red hot i will dip it in and again be at my job tha tha tha:lol:

May it sounds like a joke but very first German machine gun was infact water cooled (not the US gattling gun but real machine gun).

I once had a chance to take part in army's LMG firing, they had quite a numbers of spare barrels and were changing them after about 200 rounds.

MIdreesTaj
20-07-2009, 07:47 PM
I once had a chance to take part in army's LMG firing, they had quite a numbers of spare barrels and were changing them after about 200 rounds.

they change barrels after 200 rounds? not for cooling but for longer life. a continous fire as greater in voume as a couple of 100s and + rounds will permanantly deform the barrel...

Abu Al Hawl
20-07-2009, 07:47 PM
see Den is my real brother in Arms and my real Grainee, he is even supporting my thoughts

Denovo87
20-07-2009, 07:54 PM
I once had a chance to take part in army's LMG firing, they had quite a numbers of spare barrels and were changing them after about 200 rounds.

they change barrels after 200 rounds? not for cooling but for longer life. a continous fire as greater in voume as a couple of 100s and + rounds will permanantly deform the barrel...

One of the same thing bro, you are confirming that over heating cause barrel deformation. So Ka_Khan is right, over heating does damage the barrel.

MIdreesTaj
20-07-2009, 08:35 PM
@Denovo87
over heating will deform anything u name it, but therez a threshold afterwhich a permanent deformation will start, well before thatits temporary.. temporary structural changes will adversaly affect accuracy.. passing the threshold will bring permanent changes as in case of continous machine gun fire.. we r bound to small arms mostly and its in a championship or a shooting contest whereu might be worried of over heating... think of a shot pattern in a shotgun tryin to take down flying targets or sub MOA accuracy @ 500 yards.. i dont think we are machinegun operators either.. btw bull barrels are tough on this job as compared to pencil barrels and overheating can melt a furnance too.. :)

Fahim
20-07-2009, 08:41 PM
see Den is my real brother in Arms and my real Grainee, he is even supporting my thoughts
Do i get the credit for bringing up the term Brothers in Arms.? ;)

Abu Al Hawl
20-07-2009, 08:49 PM
dear members, tell me who is therwe in this form who can experience barrel heating on real grounds!!!!! is there any one ???, with the weapons we have for civilian use, or some of us going to get hold of those army variants? so why to argue on. barrel do get hot and some get hot but with no problem.

Abu Al Hawl
20-07-2009, 09:08 PM
ha ha ha :lol: what about the human who is getting worn out every day????

Shariq
20-07-2009, 10:44 PM
In PAF LMG barrels are not changed. They keep firing till training quota is completed.
During extended training sessions, Chinese AK-47 and G3 get too hot to hold even with multiple rags around the hand. Even the furniture get too hot to touch with gloves on. But no permanent damage occurs.

Ka_Khan
20-07-2009, 10:48 PM
I think we are tresspassing in the PB domain... :)

MHMalik
21-07-2009, 03:28 AM
I cant afford to shoot enough bullets to cause excessive barrel heat so i guess i dont have to worry about it :cool:

We should have a Committee party thing at Pakguns for ammo.. hehe

Skeeter60
18-08-2009, 05:42 PM
Barrel heating

In case of bolt action rifles if the barrel is too hot to touch , it is too hot to shoot. Of course you can go on shooting with no damage apparently to the barrel from out side but the bore of the rifle barrel experiences erosion in the chamber throat ruining the accuracy of an otherwise fine rifle.
In the Military type ARs or AKs you do not have to worry much as the bores are chrome lined and resist erosion better than steel, also these are not in the accuracy category to lose much. One can go on blazing but should not be without any purpose. If one shoots deliberately and with a purpose one can not over heat even an auto rifle barrel.

Of course Machine guns used to have water cooling on both sides but with improved metallurgy and reduced dependence on Machine gun fire and change ability of barrels the water cooling was done away with .
All Light Machine Guns and Medium Machine Guns have spare barrels with them and being a crew served weapon it is the duty of the No 2 to change barrels with thick gloves to avoid burning hands, as the LMG and the MG barrels actually glow red at night. The barrels are changed as they get so hot the range and accuracy gets seriously effected. this occurs during a fire fight in operations not during training. I want to add that in case of a fine hunting rifle it should not be fired repeatedly that is if you fire only three to four rounds of a 7mm Mag or a 300 mag in one minute you must allow it to cool for about three minutes. These are precision weapons not meant for declaring a war, their accuracy will be ruined if these are fired more than ten times in two minutes. From minute of angle rifles these will turn into 3 0r 4 minute of angle rifles even if mistreated like this once only.

The .308 or a 7x57 are slightly less sensitive the 270 is more sensitive due to smaller bore and bigger case volume.

The Machine guns are considered good if these can group inside 12 inches at a 100yds when fired single shot.

It is the ACCURACY which is ruined nothing else Please. In competition shooting the 308 win and 6mm are used with bull barrels and heavier actions. Sometimes heavier cals are also used but the matches are slow fire, even the rapid events one fires 5 rds in 3 minutes and then a break for scoring which means the rifles cool in between.

A sniper will seldom fire more than two rds in a minute unless in operations, just to save his accuracy, even when fired in this slow manner the accuracy life of a sniper rifle barrel is just about 2500 rds, the 7mm Mag about 1000 rds the weatherby 270 under 500 rds. The 270 winchester 1200 to 1500 rds ( all depends on several factors like cleaning and breaking in and the ammo used). We are talking accuracy, otherwise these will keep shooting but loss of accuracy will increase rapidly.

In case of shot guns while shooting quail sometimes the barrels do get hot but there is no damage except discomfort on touching.In the trap event two rds are fired in half a second but then you wait for the other five shooters to take their turn before you shoot again. A shotgun barrel cannot be damaged in any manner by continous shooting due to a very small amount of powder used and the pressure being six times less than that of a rifle , no rifling and little bore friction .

The rate or fire of anti aircraft guns and aircraft canon is so high that even though they fire very short bursts the barrels have to be changed frequently < these are changed for good> The rate of fire is, by the way between 2000 to 6000 rds per minute these guns eat the barrels

Ka_Khan
18-08-2009, 10:07 PM
We are glad to have you Skeeter...this was the thing i was looking for.Had some confusion and thats why started this thread,but now its clear.Burned my fingers by touching the hot barrel and thought what damage could it do inside.

Omer571
19-08-2009, 12:41 PM
@NOMI,KA,CC: I put my Beretta a 303 semi auto to this test. I fired 87 cartridges, one after the other. The barrel was too hot to touch but i still kept firing. The gun is more than 16 yrs old . I don't have any problems with accuracy.

Enigmatic Desires
19-08-2009, 03:40 PM
First time I emptied a mag in a shot gun. I went yeow after touching the barrel.. Just wondering. if the barrel becomes really hot wont it melt the furniture. spacialy the polymer one?

Skeeter60
19-08-2009, 03:53 PM
@NOMI,KA,CC: I put my Beretta a 303 semi auto to this test. I fired 87 cartridges, one after the other. The barrel was too hot to touch but i still kept firing. The gun is more than 16 yrs old . I don't have any problems with accuracy.

Dear Omer Sahab,
Accuracy is related to firing of a single projectile.
No the polymer should not melt unless you keep firing hundreds of rounds just to melt it. Who wants to shoot a shot gun continuosly without any reason?

Omer571
19-08-2009, 07:11 PM
@Skeeter : hmmmm......rightly said. Common sense. So, do i have to fire a 1 oz. ball to find out.

KageFox
19-08-2009, 07:13 PM
Had a bad experience with a hot barrel once. Handed the 917 back to my father after a full mag rapid fire, palms closed around on the slide (exposed barrel)..... owwww! Nearly dropped the gun!

Enigmatic Desires
21-08-2009, 03:38 AM
@ Skeeter 60 I was thinking along the lines of a combat shot gun.. rahter then teh hunting/sporting version

@KF.. major ouch since the 917 like its illustrious elder brother the 92 is mostly al barrel on top