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View Full Version : Stoger Couger Vs. Taurus 909



Enigmatic Desires
13-07-2009, 04:26 PM
Both are excellent pistols in roughly the same price range.. with their own set of advantages.

The cougar has a rotating barrel that helps in eliminating muzzle flip repeat target acquisition.

On the other hand the 909 has higher capacity and accessory rails.


If any1 prefers an individual weapon over the other.. If so .. why?

Abu Al Hawl
13-07-2009, 05:15 PM
Dear ED, in my personal experience every pistol has flinch, rotating barrel is just a new mechanism and it helps nothing, only the long barrel pistols like competition models have very less flinch. every 3 to 6 inch barrels has almost the same flinch. how is it possible that slide goes back and drag the hammer under it and there is no jerk, you check the spring rigidity of a hammer which is even very hard to cock by your thumb, so when there is an automatic cycle runs it will for sure give a jerk.

eminentpk
13-07-2009, 05:18 PM
Stoeger Cougar a subsidary of beretta...and the in this price you get the same thing which could be 3 times more expensive..i think thats what made me go for stoger

Otherwise both are good.

HassaanAfzal
13-07-2009, 05:27 PM
I go for Stoeger as i am very comfortable firing from it. the only drawback i find in this pistol is loud bang as compare to other 9mm coz of shorter barrel length.

Enigmatic Desires
13-07-2009, 10:11 PM
AOA Hawl Sahib,

I am ok wiht the flich.. In fact yet to have seen a firearm that does'nt have it..

I meant the muzzle flip. an specifically is it greater then with the 909.

It would make a crucial difference in the hands of an unskilled shooter

Abu Al Hawl
13-07-2009, 10:14 PM
ok buddy enjoy........

KageFox
13-07-2009, 11:40 PM
Both are quite reliable, as far as I know. But which is easier to carry concealed?

Enigmatic Desires
14-07-2009, 01:57 AM
I go for Stoeger as i am very comfortable firing from it. the only drawback i find in this pistol is loud bang as compare to other 9mm coz of shorter barrel length.

The sound factor is definely a negative issue in the cougher's favour. but then al CC hand guns have shorter barrels then their ful sized counter parts..

Dr Zakir
14-07-2009, 10:32 PM
Which more accurate

AK-86
14-07-2009, 10:47 PM
Some one said that Stoeger is made on beretta machinery, so i want to add that 909 has the same case it is just a beretta which is 20% cut off in size.
beretta sold its Couger company to Turkey so it became Stoeger Couger, And the same beretta sold its 92fs plant to the taurus company of Brazil so it became taurus pt92, the 909 is a modern and compact model of beretta.

In case of looksand finishing i think the 909 surely wins, and guess what it also comes in Stainless steel where as the Stoeger is only in black colour.

pawunda
14-07-2009, 11:28 PM
i fired 20 rounds from my new cougar. I loved the gun but th eonly complaint is offcenter pin strikes (although slight it is not I wanted to see). It is very accurate from 20 yards I would try longer shots next time. I also fired the chinese CF-98 and found as accurate as Stougar with great centered pin strikes. The quality of CF-98 was low specially in the barrell.
:(
Just for information on the pricing. I checked tthree dealers here in Pesh with price ranging from 56 k to 60 k. Finally I baught it for 55k from Bannu. The CF-98 costed me 32k fron Bannu.:)

Salvation
14-07-2009, 11:43 PM
i personally think that rotating barrel has no major effect on the muzzle flip as i owe a stoeger to and its just a different sort of locking system but i do belive that it is as reliable pistol as one can think of, i have fired 1500+rds in all sorts of weather conditions within 3weeks not a single trouble rather its gettin even tough n better to fire and handle ..... i havent tried 909 but in my opinon it definatly has better looks and the provision of rail will add on grace marks

eminentpk
15-07-2009, 01:06 AM
Some one said that Stoeger is made on beretta machinery, so i want to add that 909 has the same case it is just a beretta which is 20% cut off in size.
beretta sold its Couger company to Turkey so it became Stoeger Couger, And the same beretta sold its 92fs plant to the taurus company of Brazil so it became taurus pt92, the 909 is a modern and compact model of beretta.

In case of looksand finishing i think the 909 surely wins, and guess what it also comes in Stainless steel where as the Stoeger is only in black colour.


Yup i said that stoeger is made on beretta machinery.....Well i agree with you to some extent.....that taurus does have a better look.... but is it as durable and stoeger....and i think that answer could be given who has fired more than 5000 rounds atleast off both of them.

Enigmatic Desires
15-07-2009, 01:27 AM
Hmmm. I started this thread while being biased towards hte stoeger.. but I think in terms of fit/finish and colouring i think the 909 is hte winner.. but in terms of CC the stoeger is stil smaller

HassaanAfzal
15-07-2009, 02:12 AM
Which more accurate

I think stoeger

Usama
15-07-2009, 10:43 AM
Looks 909
Durability/Life Stoeger

Enigmatic Desires
15-07-2009, 06:49 PM
Looks 909
Durability/Life Stoeger


At their price range..

909s have both the looks an hte features of weapons far more expensive

9mm Luger
15-07-2009, 07:28 PM
cougar is a nice little gun suitable for CCW and enough capacity... 909 equally good.. try both ..choose the one which feels more comfortable in your hands..simple!!

Abu Al Hawl
15-07-2009, 07:48 PM
both are of same size over all length 7"

Enigmatic Desires
15-07-2009, 08:56 PM
I thinkI am steering towards teh 909..

Now my only issue is the recoil.. since shop keepers dont allow us to 'sample' their wares... I guess i'll never really know which 1 has he lesser recoil :(

Abu Al Hawl
15-07-2009, 09:00 PM
both will have the same since the length is same, rotating barrel doesnt give any advandage, i suggest go for 917c , its cooool.................

Enigmatic Desires
15-07-2009, 09:07 PM
both will have the same since the length is same, rotating barrel doesnt give any advandage, i suggest go for 917c , its cooool.................

yeah.. i like the 917 too.. i've handled it. an it had that 'just right' feel to my hands..

But is'nt it any bigger then the 909?

Abu Al Hawl
15-07-2009, 09:10 PM
nops, unees beees ka farq

Abu Al Hawl
15-07-2009, 09:11 PM
do yo have to CC it or what?

Enigmatic Desires
15-07-2009, 09:15 PM
do yo have to CC it or what?


Since I already have an HD weapon.. an SD weapon should idealy b cc.. Thats partly why i like the cougher.. its smaller then most service weapons..

Abu Al Hawl
15-07-2009, 09:28 PM
go to a dealer have both in your hands and then compare the size

R Shahreyar
15-07-2009, 09:33 PM
Stoeger is good for CC but not small enough to be carried on ANKLE

Salvation
15-07-2009, 11:16 PM
I thinkI am steering towards teh 909..

Now my only issue is the recoil.. since shop keepers dont allow us to 'sample' their wares... I guess i'll never really know which 1 has he lesser recoil :(


bro rule no 1 neve eve go for the looks, remember when taurus 24/7 hit the market it was every ones dream hand gun atleast for a year or so when afterwards people saw its short comings ...... no one expects an imported hand gun to act like a dara make (as you can get what ever you want in size n shape from a local clone but it wud always lack in performance) so my advise is wait and see before you buy. Stoeger is a tested gun ppl have no reliabilty issues n 909 still needs to prove its self apart from its look.
so a brotherly advise wait for sm1 who has crossed 2000-5000 rds limit on 909 otherwise if u want to buy a hand straight now then dont even give it a 2nd thought n go for Stoeger

Shariq
15-07-2009, 11:22 PM
IMO
Taurus 9 series has favorable reviews in western gun forums and no particular complaints have been aired by its users. If anyone likes the looks then i guess he can go for it.
I am sure Cougar will have less recoil as compared to 909 but lets get an opinion from experts.

KageFox
16-07-2009, 12:34 AM
In the end, it will all be down to a matter of personal preference. Some has more say that the Cougar has more recoil in the first 100 or so rounds, and that its rotating barrel mechanism is more accurate. What I believe is that the slight differences in recoil and accuracy will matter very little in an actual combat/ defence scenario. The only questions that come to my mind when choosing between these two is that are they equally reliable? Are they easy to conceal? Are the safeties easy to engage/ disengage in a stressful situation? There are others, but you get the gist.

While on the topic of Stoeger Cougar vs Taurus PT909, why don't we add the PT911/915 to the discussion too (no rail, same mag cap., slightly shorter in height that PT909).

My own personal opinion goes towards the Taurus (if reliability issues are justified) due to the fact that I like frame mounted safeties better than slide mounted safeties. I simply feel that is will be easier to operate under tension, with lesser chances or error.

@AAH: What you suggest is the best option. Nothing beats comparing two seemingly identical (performance-wise) pistols other than getting a hold of both and playing around with it for a bit, to see which is more comfortable...

Striker1
16-07-2009, 09:34 AM
"Nothing beats comparing two seemingly identical (performance-wise) pistols other than getting a hold of both and playing around with it for a bit, to see which is more comfortable..."

Well Said!

Striker1
16-07-2009, 09:57 AM
Here we go some specs and comparision!

STOGER COUGER
OVERALL LENGTH 7"
BARREL LENGTH 3.60"
WEIGHT UNLOADED 32.60 oz.
MAG CAPACITY 15

TAURUS 909 ( with rails) -
OVERALL LENGTH 7"
BARREL LENGTH 4.00"
MAX THICKNESS 1.606"
WEIGHT UNLOADED 28.20oz.
MAG CAPACITY 17

The model that I have is also a PT 909 but without rails.

KageFox
16-07-2009, 11:19 AM
@Striker1: You sure its a 909 without rails and not a 911 or 915? Bcos they both look sort of alike, and the Taurus USA website lists only 2 guns under "909", both with rails.

If possible, please upload a few pics.

According to your info, the Stoeger has less cap, slightly shorter barrel, and is slightly heavier. Any specs on the max thickness of these two?

Abu Al Hawl
16-07-2009, 11:21 AM
909 with rail is also available here in Pakistan

Striker1
16-07-2009, 11:29 AM
909 with rail is also available here in Pakistan


Yes I did see it when I bought mine from PARA Lahore. Available here in Karachi as well.

Salvation
16-07-2009, 08:59 PM
909 with rail is also available here in Pakistan


Yes I did see it when I bought mine from PARA Lahore. Available here in Karachi as well.

when did u see it at PARA cus i jus visited them and all they had was
Stoger 800f
Taurus 24/7 and pt92
Viper (phillipines)
Zigana

Abu Al Hawl
16-07-2009, 09:01 PM
their stock of 909 must have got over!

Salvation
16-07-2009, 09:16 PM
what is the price being quoted for 909 stoeger is still at 50k at PARA

Abu Al Hawl
16-07-2009, 09:18 PM
55k

Conceal Carry
16-07-2009, 10:03 PM
The cougar has a rotating barrel that helps in eliminating muzzle flip repeat target acquisition.



Wrong. A rotating barrel mechanim is to lock the slide momentarily so that it does not cycle untill the pressure of expanding gases has fallen to a level at which the slide can safely cycle without breaking off the frame.

Abu Hafs
16-07-2009, 10:10 PM
Wrong. A rotating barrel mechanim is to lock the slide momentarily so that it does not cycle untill the pressure of expanding gases has fallen to a level at which the slide can safely cycle without breaking off the frame.


So how do those guns which do not have the rotating barrel mechanism overcome this problem?

Abu Al Hawl
16-07-2009, 10:40 PM
rotaing barrel is a myth leave it aside

Enigmatic Desires
17-07-2009, 12:45 AM
The cougar has a rotating barrel that helps in eliminating muzzle flip repeat target acquisition.



Wrong. A rotating barrel mechanim is to lock the slide momentarily so that it does not cycle untill the pressure of expanding gases has fallen to a level at which the slide can safely cycle without breaking off the frame.

Oh.. An article in combat handguns mag stated so... something about muzzle flip being noticeably lighter in the rotating barrel pistol then in the non-rotating ones.. This is really the main reason why i preferred the cougher over any other weapon..

I have not had a chance to fire it.. hence the reason for this thread

Conceal Carry
17-07-2009, 01:03 AM
Wrong. A rotating barrel mechanim is to lock the slide momentarily so that it does not cycle untill the pressure of expanding gases has fallen to a level at which the slide can safely cycle without breaking off the frame.


So how do those guns which do not have the rotating barrel mechanism overcome this problem?

Tilting Barrel,
Delayed blow Back,
Roller delayed Blow Back,
Gas Piston,
etc., etc.

Conceal Carry
17-07-2009, 01:06 AM
rotaing barrel is a myth leave it aside

It's not a myth, It's a design feature.

Conceal Carry
17-07-2009, 01:10 AM
The cougar has a rotating barrel that helps in eliminating muzzle flip repeat target acquisition.



Wrong. A rotating barrel mechanim is to lock the slide momentarily so that it does not cycle untill the pressure of expanding gases has fallen to a level at which the slide can safely cycle without breaking off the frame.

Oh.. An article in combat handguns mag stated so... something about muzzle flip being noticeably lighter in the rotating barrel pistol then in the non-rotating ones.. This is really the main reason why i preferred the cougher over any other weapon..

I have not had a chance to fire it.. hence the reason for this thread

Muzzle flip is caused by many factors including the grip, ammo, barel length, bullet weight, gun weight, etc.

Dr Zakir
17-07-2009, 01:27 AM
it is the man behind the gun , one of my friend he can shoot bulls with any hand gun you give him

Conceal Carry
17-07-2009, 01:34 AM
it is the man behind the gun , one of my friend he can shoot bulls with any hand gun you give him

Very True.

Enigmatic Desires
17-07-2009, 04:12 AM
it is the man behind the gun , one of my friend he can shoot bulls with any hand gun you give him

I cant do that. :(

hence i try to 'cheat' any way i can...

Striker1
17-07-2009, 09:13 AM
ANOTHER FEATURE of the TAURUS 909


DISENGAGER LOCK

Has this feature in the form of a lock and key.


Pretty useful for me. I lock it when I am storing it for a period!

Taurus
18-07-2009, 07:34 PM
well i would go for only stoeger reason very accurate low recoil,grips fit my hand subsidiary of beretta and most important durable ,i know ppl will debate on durability but i dont feel taurus 9 series except 92 has good durability

Enigmatic Desires
20-07-2009, 03:20 AM
well i would go for only stoeger reason very accurate low recoil,grips fit my hand subsidiary of beretta and most important durable ,i know ppl will debate on durability but i dont feel taurus 9 series except 92 has good durability


WEll I dont think I will hold on to it after say.. 500 or so rounds. unless I fall in love with it. I'l probably change it for something else.

If it can give me good reliability/durability for at most 1000 rounds. I would consider it money well spent

CougarMan
21-07-2009, 09:35 PM
Cougar all the way. Too many conflicting reports re Taurus guns. why take a chance??? :D

ARlover
22-07-2009, 11:17 AM
stoger is stoger

Enigmatic Desires
23-07-2009, 12:05 AM
Yeah stoeger is stoeger. never heard of a steger jamming or ka-booming or fte/ftf probs wiht that one. is may be its not as popular as the taurus series of weapons and thats why not enough people have used it enough to elaborate its faults.

ahsan raza
01-04-2012, 04:30 PM
Bought this one

Please any one having any single bad experience wid 909 plz share wid us.

Asif Jhammat
11-05-2012, 10:29 PM
i wil go for cougar stoeger