Beretta 92FS - Pak-made 9mm - Complete Review [Archive]

View Full Version : Beretta 92FS - Pak-made 9mm - Complete Review

MIdreesTaj

06-07-2009, 02:43 PM

This is my Zafar Alam's clone (previously stated as Khyber Arms mistakenly). Two tone. slide not completely black, rather gives more sportish looks.. its dark maroon/black mix, sort of some alloy made slide, have polished barrel bore, shallow rifling , like that we find in colt 1911 barrel, 6-groove right hand twist.
Sights vs, barrel's center bore line vs slide fitting alignment is 100% perfect and upto the mark.. shoots straight where you aim at. doesnt exhibit any sort of rust on it after use of 1 year.
Installed hogue full wrap around grips for 3000rs, pistol was tagged as 25K where as i had special links through another person with the shopkeeper after a lil hanky panky i paid only 16500rs for it and took it to home.
The gun is used on range once and our own piece of land several times where we have shot on paper targets with it using norinco/POF/american eagle FMJs and federal JHPs. To this day it has never failed to feed a round or failed on extration, being very honest with this pakmade weapon.
Have fired more than 600 rounds through it, along better desi rounds.. yes it has misfired a couple of times with desi rounds, not pistols fault rather the round was hit harder on the primer than it ever could ideally, and sometimes a dumb primer takes a DA trigger pull to fire after once it has misfired but thats all with desi ammo. Otherwise it has never misfired on chinese or POF ammo.
Barrel is still going good, i was a lil upset when on day 2nd i found its rifling to be so shallower but after this much of a drag, i would say apprently the rifling is still clean and clear as it was on day 1. But again thats only 600 rounds, i hope it to last upto 4000 rounds but thats again my guess.
Its acurate upto 20 meters. With my amateur skills i can manage to deliver a couple of rounds within 8 inch circle before i get fatigued due to continous firing.. i am not an expert on trigger control yet but if this thing goes on good i think ill love to master a beretta 92FS on it before buying an italian one which ofcourse i currently dont afford. Over all i am pretty damn sure that with a quick draw from holster and simple point shooting this gun will deliver the bolt to the chest within 15 meters. So i rate it as my SD gun nonetheless.
Yes - firepin once got broken, after only a box of 50 rounds, replaced it and now its going like smoothest butter gun.. shoots everytime on demand. After every shooting tour i prefer to check its internals more specifically the 1- locking block and 2- the slide corners where the locking block hits upon blow back action. To my goodness they are as good as they were on the day 1.
I can bet my life on this gun because i know it will send a bolt right where i will point it and whenever i demand it to do so. Yes its a little heavier like 1 KG approx a few like 50 grams more than an original FS. I trust this weapon and feel confident with it. Usually I carry it with concealed carry permit inside Punjab having NPB Lahore based license.

PFA pictures below with and without Hogue wrap arounds.
and for the target video click below:
Video Link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb7Grt3wkG8

Happy shooting and safe carry.. ;)
Regards,
M. Idrees Taj

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4738/95876757.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4136/40883397.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

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http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4348/39719585.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

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http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9866/71675649.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/9107/96813650.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/848/21085222.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

http://www.postimage.org/aViITji.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

http://www.postimage.org/aViJeLA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/386/80979385.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

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http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1430/68292653.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

******* UPDATE on above weapon *******

Shooting in dusk time(low light):
------------------------------------------
Location: private land enclosure, Sadhoke GT road, Pakistan.
Weapon: Beretta 92FS clone made by Zafar Alam.
Ammo: Local factory reloads w/ Wolf 9mm cases and wider CCI primers
Target Distance: 12 meters approx +/- 1 meter
Target type: Home made unprofessional type/white chart paper wrapped on dead tree trunk
Number of Shots: 30
Shooter: Myself

Video (2nd half of the shoot): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e3h4zhiVys

http://s2.postimage.org/rUhti.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

..... and the target, later on

http://s2.postimage.org/rU4_A.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

******* UPDATES on picking the right piece *******

I would like to add some opinions:

-local products need more care and maintenance.. they will not tolerate negligence in this regards. You cannot leave your barrel un-cleaned and relubed, immediately after a shooting session.

-You cannot trust your fire pin and extractor in NIB clone gun, always perform a remake by an expert gunsmith who have mastered 92's. Believe me there are such good gunsmith available who have a command on this weapon atleast. Same story goes with the trigger, you might like to have a trigger job done too by such a gunsmith (but do this sometime later like after firing 500+ rounds) - just for the sake of break-in period. Un-refined firearms do require more break-in time.

Before buying, you really need to verify these points, because they vary... in piece to piece within the same brand/manufacturer's collection:

- slide to frame fit, the weapon should not rattle when shaked vigorously (take magazine out before doing that)

- Locking block's balance with respect to Slide recesses where it fits in, when gun is in full lockup, i.e. when slide is fully forward. Imbalanced pistol in this aspect will break the locking block or crack the slide recesses very soon.

- barrel rifling and feed ramp (modern shallow type rifling is looked for here in this regard) and a good polished smooth feed ramp.

- the most important of all is, barrel to slide fit. When pistol is in lock-up (slide fully forward) hold your muzzle and try to move your barrel horizontally. It should not move or atleast it should seem to avoid any such movement(if not rock solid in this position)

-also keeping above point in mind next thing you should do is, rack the slide once, (DOUBLE CHECK MAGAZINE IS OUT AND WEAPON IS EMPTY CHAMBERED), look through the muzzle by keeping it 2 feet away from your eye, such that you manage to exactly align the front sight with the rare sight. Keep holding in that position, verify visually, the barrel / the slide / the sights MUST BE in perfect alignment and straightness. Here at this point, if there's any manufacturing/Fitting flaw, it will be disclosed to you. SUCH A PISTOL will never shoot good, infact such a pistol is not to be labelled as a true firearm indeed. This flaw is very much likely to occur in every 2/3 pistols that are born in our LOCAL factories.

I hope by looking at all above aspects with clear mind and great detail.. you can pick a nice piece. It will serve you well and you will enjoy shooting it.

******* UPDATE - Practice time *******

My Sunday Shoot (25th Oct, 09)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Location: private land enclosure, Sadhoke GT road, Pakistan.
Weapon: Beretta 92FS clone
Ammo: Local factory reloads w/ Federal 9mm cases
Target Distance: 12 meters approx +/- 1 meter
Target type: Home made unprofessional type/white chart paper wrapped on dead tree trunk
Number of Shots: 30approx
Shooter: Myself
Issues: Last round from the mag FTE reason might be under powered as its local reloaded ammo.

Video Link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxbBl-CTjTg

Target Later on:

http://s2.postimage.org/sat0i.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

http://s2.postimage.org/savvr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

http://s2.postimage.org/sax_A.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)

Topak

06-07-2009, 03:32 PM

good gun idrees.as all say,if you got a good piece in desi you must be lucky person.any way there are some good gunsmith too who can compete with branded guns.like ustad zafar alam
idrees from where you got it and price..?

KageFox

06-07-2009, 04:37 PM

Good stuff for a local made gun. Nice pics!

Adeel Ahmad

06-07-2009, 05:01 PM

Idrees you got this clone at a very good price. Congratulations on your purchase.

Ka_Khan

06-07-2009, 09:19 PM

Good piece and great price.I have visited and in factory they are demanding 16K.

Shariq

06-07-2009, 09:42 PM

Gun looks good.

SAJJAD ALI

06-07-2009, 11:12 PM

nice pistol

Dr Zakir

06-07-2009, 11:29 PM

Got a great price . I have bought one for my guard tested it with 100 rounds was very good with no stoppages and reasonable accuracy . Altough sites were not good and if sites are changed I believe accuracy will increase greatly

12GAUGE

06-07-2009, 11:30 PM

nice review brother, couldnt understand much but still nice review. i've noticed that pistol guyz talk too much technical hoopla for a simple minded bloke such as myself. I still have two questions though.

1. is this pistol of urs semi automatic, cause i've learned on this forum that glock is semiauto, since i dont see a cocking handle/lever nor a bolt on u'r gun, i'm guessing thats its manual right?

2. where is that hogue wrap around grips u were talking about, all i see is a leather pouch, i guess that must be it. why not call it a pouch instead of grips?

Regards.

Ilyas

06-07-2009, 11:56 PM

@12Gauge... Bro a semiauto pistol means that you have to rack it just once n after the first shot, the empty case is ejected n a new round is chambered automatically. You just need to rack it for the first time and then single shots follow. In pistols automatic means those ones which can fire bursts/rapid fire.
The hogue wrap around grip is already installed on the pistol and if you compare the grip in the first few pics with the last few, you'll notice that the grip is changed.

Dr Zakir

07-07-2009, 12:02 AM

+1 illyas

12GAUGE

07-07-2009, 12:08 AM

Oh! I see.......

Thanks Ilyas bro.

Regards.

hahahaha. I thought the guy confused leather pouch with the grip. now i know he is talking about black plastic or rubber thing attached to the gun's handle. again, thanks for clearing that out for me.

Regards.

Ilyas

07-07-2009, 01:06 AM

Fahim

07-07-2009, 09:27 AM

Very nice info bout local guns.! thanx every1.

NOMI

07-07-2009, 12:28 PM

very nice

Ka_Khan

07-07-2009, 04:02 PM

Zubair

07-07-2009, 05:03 PM

Nice pictures

Enigmatic Desires

08-07-2009, 12:19 AM

@12Gauge...You are most welcome, who knows if we might infect you like this n drag you into the handguns field as well :D
At least the initial symptoms have shown as you've started to post on threads other than shotguns and their maintenance.

I agree totally.. if our redoubtable baara guage shows even a smattering of interst for pistols htat he has for hte shot gun.. I think we'l have another expert to help us out wiht our problems..

P.s Baara guage. When u were showing your diagrams of the sulg u've invented. i had to read the post at least a few times cause it kept on going clean over my head :D

Enigmatic Desires

08-07-2009, 12:20 AM

an amazing look weapon.. definitely 1 of the better products to come out of our local factories

12GAUGE

08-07-2009, 12:26 AM

Enigmatic Desires

08-07-2009, 01:31 PM

P.s Baara guage. When u were showing your diagrams of the sulg u've invented. i had to read the post at least a few times cause it kept on going clean over my head

that reminds me, I got my first batch of slugs tested, they fired absolutely safe and as expected and quiet on target under 30 yards. however somehow the accuracy of casted slugs falls greatly once u cross 30 yrds mark. still working on it. recently got 6 slugs machined with key rib to better hold the shotcup in the barrel. lets see.

Regards.

Oh wow!!..

From paper to the real world is always a quantum leap.. I am really glad to know U have made that leap.. a slug even at 30 yards is stil a slug..

Once the safety issues have been seen. I am sure the accuracy will follow suit.. We have ful faith in u :)

Adeel Ahmad

08-07-2009, 01:37 PM

@12Gauge
For such an educated in Shotgun department, it seems really weird that you are a lay man in Hand Gun scenario.
Congratulations on you slugs and maybe one it will see light of mass production.

12GAUGE

08-07-2009, 01:41 PM

For such an educated in Shotgun department, it seems really weird that you are a lay man in Hand Gun scenario.

aaah, handguns was never my thing bro. still isn't. hahahhahahaa

Regards.

Adeel Ahmad

08-07-2009, 01:44 PM

I am more of a handgun person but as Ahmad mentioned during the GTG, Hand Guns always lead to Long Guns. I am also getting a little fascinated by these weapons.

Topak

08-07-2009, 05:55 PM

@topak I got it from Majeed Gull, dealer @ Khyber Arms and Co near Macro center ravi road lahore. price was 25k where as i got it for 16500rs :)
they are very clever idrees.
the actual price is 16k,they tried to rip off you.lucky person you are.
here is link please check.
http://khyberarms.wetpaint.com/page/Pistol+Beretta+No.1

MIdreesTaj

08-07-2009, 05:58 PM

hmm @topak; bro thats true but ive heard all beretta clones to be in this factory price range.. the pieces with better finish and over all feel are displayed on prices as high as 25k .. must be a seller tactic to earn more profit.. but they all worth around 15-16 k if u really consider their actual worth.. in terms of metal used, work hours, craftsmanship etc

Enigmatic Desires

09-07-2009, 01:32 AM

(sigh) but so few dealers sell a decent piece at such prices

Khalidsh

09-07-2009, 03:08 PM

I would love to buy such weapon but it would be great if it would come with imported barrel. will be worth in terms of life of a gun.

Silent killerr

09-07-2009, 06:27 PM

impressive

BERETTA M9 9mm

10-07-2009, 09:33 PM

nice clone bro...................congrats

HammadArshad

16-10-2009, 02:53 PM

Nice gun you got sir...

mehranbiz

16-10-2009, 03:51 PM

How much the magazine capacity 14 or 17 , I think the real Beretta 92Fs have 17 round mag capacity

Silent killerr

17-10-2009, 04:38 PM

Bro, clone is nice but Orignal is awesome, cant compare orignal and clone

Glocky

17-10-2009, 06:42 PM

Bro, clone is nice but Orignal is awesome, cant compare orignal and clone

Bravo actually makes sense :)

Kamran_uk75

18-10-2009, 10:23 PM

Beautiful gun, do they make Bretta 92 clones in 30 bore, any idea about performance and price?

KageFox

18-10-2009, 10:34 PM

Kamran_uk75

18-10-2009, 10:45 PM

aq4530ba

18-10-2009, 11:29 PM

The thing about the Beretta 92fs (clone) is that if u find a good piece, you are set.. if on the other hand you dont then ur doomed.. (kindov) :P For me I have a clone, its not the exact same gun that is shown here, but a similar version, and i have put 1000+ rounds through it without a problem.. a few misfires, but that was mainly due to my laziness in not cleaning it combined with the use of some 200+ rounds of darra ammo. This is however my experience.. People have endless reports on copies that refuse to work from from right out of the box :S... Inshallah this will work well for you bro! :)

Regards

KageFox

18-10-2009, 11:40 PM

aq4530ba, do you have the 9mm or the .30?

mehranbiz

19-10-2009, 01:07 AM

How much the magazine capacity 14 or 17 , I think the real Beretta 92Fs have 17 round mag capacity

Anybody can provide details

aq4530ba

19-10-2009, 11:41 AM

aq4530ba, do you have the 9mm or the .30?

I have the 9mm. I never took a liking to 30 bore pistols.. :S

SilkenKage?

19-10-2009, 03:14 PM

nice purchase..

MIdreesTaj

19-10-2009, 07:18 PM

How much the magazine capacity 14 or 17 , I think the real Beretta 92Fs have 17 round mag capacity

Anybody can provide details

original 92FS model is 15 shot + 1 chambered.
original 90-two model is 17 shot + 1 chambered.

Pak clone is 14 shot + 1 chambered.

MIdreesTaj

19-10-2009, 07:30 PM

Khyber Arms does make Beretta clones chambered for .30 (7.62x25mm), but unlike the 9mm clones, these are nothing to write home about. One of our esteemed members (don't remember which - maybe ED) wrote about the poor performance of this gun in .30 caliber. Avoid it if you can, Go with a 9mm. .30 is best reserved for the TT and its variants.

I agree with KageFox. We have clonned a tried and tested model in 9mm. Original was never developed in Tokarev. Yet we know that we are only good at clonning thus.. I would say our men have not optimized it as a tokarev platform Or havent incorporated necessary changes required to launch Tokarev safely and effciently.
Tokarev from a 9mm platform such as Beretta and also given a clone of it, I would say the only thing going in Tokarev's favor is a 5 inch barrel (not 4.92 like original 92FS, all Paki 92FS clones have 5 inch barrels) to launch it at good velocity, and (may be) a heavier slide and recoil spring in 92FS clones as compared to Pak made Tokarev Clones.
Yes.. you may verify this. Local 92FS has a beefier slide and heavier recoil spring as compared to local made TT, which is, theoratically more optimized to handle Tokarev round.

MIdreesTaj

19-10-2009, 08:28 PM

The thing about the Beretta 92fs (clone) is that if u find a good piece, you are set.. if on the other hand you dont then ur doomed.. (kindov) :P
Regards

I agree... I just added an update on the 1st post of this thread listing out a few things which are must check before picking a Pak made 92FS clone.

KageFox

19-10-2009, 08:34 PM

wasifali89

21-10-2009, 03:12 PM

can u help me in buying one ?

ARlover

21-10-2009, 05:28 PM

great clone of 92fs is a clone of glock out there and whats price

MIdreesTaj

22-10-2009, 09:59 PM

Idrees Bhai, very useful tips you added. I've always wondered how to find a good piece among the bad ones where local guns are concerned. Anything to check if the safety/ decocker works safely? Because if the decocker is faulty, it can result in a fatal accident...

bhai jan.. as far as 92 clone is concerned, when we push the safety DOWN in safe condition.. first of all the striker knob that comes between the firing pin and hammer rotates up, further pushing of safety lever presses the lever located on right side just between the grip and slide on the frame which releases the sear to bring hammer down.
This type of safety design is very safe indeed, there is left no physical connection between hammer and firepin as the striker knob(dont know the proper term Beretta use to define this feature) that lies between hammer and pin rotates and moves up... but yes fire-pin block can be a tricky thing as it functions intrenally. If you have your firepin changed or remade, make sure it is milled properly with all necessary cuts and grooves, as these cuts are responsible for the firepin block to function properly. This block rises up when you fully press the trigger and protrudes out the slide on a 92FS. As per design, copied glocks are more prone to failure regarding internal trigger related safeties. I have a copied SIGP226 which never failed on its decocking function, but one can imagine if decocking a copied SIG might put the hammer down all the way on the firepin instead of keeping it on a predefined constant distance. All safety features working properly in a clone also shows the over all quality and build of the particular firearm. I have seen NIB 92 clones whos firing pin block failed to move up upon pressing the trigger.

Sohail

23-10-2009, 03:40 PM

oh my mine. 16k for this beauty, simply amazing. i think i should also get one as a souvenir, who knows what happen s once the KL bill is signed :D

regards

KageFox

23-10-2009, 04:02 PM

@midreestaj: Many thanks for the clarification, bro

MHMalik

23-10-2009, 07:07 PM

XMen

23-10-2009, 07:36 PM

Well finish and very good price congratulation

RazaRajpoot

23-10-2009, 08:08 PM

i want buy impoted holster for beretta any one knowe where i buy it in lahore?

Salahuddin Ayubi

23-10-2009, 08:12 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv0UhbPEAbM&feature=fvw

Idrees,

I checked out this video of yours on you tube. Shooting at bricks so close is inviting disaster. Ricochets are dangerous.

Be careful.

wasifali89

24-10-2009, 06:40 PM

@midreestaj

could u help me out in buying this clone ????

Immy

27-10-2009, 09:44 AM

Salam,
I am interested to know about the new grips you got for your gun..can you please tell me where did you get them and would they fit any beretta clone?
thnx
immy

KageFox

27-10-2009, 04:24 PM

I think Hogue makes a grip for the Beretta 92 which should easily fit on your pistol. Otherwise, you could go look for a Hogue Handall Universal Grip Sleeve, which can fit on nearly all pistols except those with grip safety.

I think it retails for around Rs 2000 in Karachi, though I'm not sure of the recent prices.

MIdreesTaj

28-10-2009, 08:22 PM

i want buy impoted holster for beretta any one knowe where i buy it in lahore?

Please check at Neela Gumbad Market Lahore... last time I purchased a local copied shoulder rig holster with snug free design for 2000rs only. The original American made(unknwon brand) was 4500rs and was literally no different to the copied. Its still going great.

MIdreesTaj

28-10-2009, 09:14 PM

@ midreestaj

Bro I was just wondering.. are the parts interchangeable between the original and the clone?

If so one could make a hybrid.. like get a used 92fs (scratched up) and use its firing pin, barrel etc.. Would be an interesting project..

Just a thought..

I dont really think so, as local clones are not exact CNC copy of original. I never tried to interchange parts either. btw original barrel can be fitted in a clone with original locking block.. gunsmithing would be required in this case to fit in new barrel and accomodate new locking block..

MIdreesTaj

28-10-2009, 09:16 PM

MIdreesTaj

28-10-2009, 09:17 PM

@midreestaj

could u help me out in buying this clone ????

m.idrees.taj@gmail.com
drop me a mail and then we see whats possible..

MIdreesTaj

28-10-2009, 09:20 PM

Salam,
I am interested to know about the new grips you got for your gun..can you please tell me where did you get them and would they fit any beretta clone?
thnx
immy

These are Hogue wrap around grips. I purchased them at 4K from Qadri Traders, 22 mall view plaza, bank square neela gumbad Lahore.
As per their proper fitting on the grip.. well i think it depends on the clone itself bcuz a clone is not an exact copy indeed. To my pistol, these grips have stiffened the slide release lever, bcuz of that my slide does not lock back after the last round in the mag is fired... Other than that, it improvises the grip so much so that you would love its feel...and thats for sure..

aq4530ba

29-10-2009, 09:41 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv0UhbPEAbM&feature=fvw

Idrees,

I checked out this video of yours on you tube. Shooting at bricks so close is inviting disaster. Ricochets are dangerous.

Be careful.

Sir you are right but I did that only once in my life .. and it was for the sake of this daring video only :)

Nice video sir.. Im thinking of making one myself! :P Never get the time to do so though.. :( But yeah be careful when shooting something such as a brick or wall at close range bro... Better safe than sorry... ;)

MKKD

22-04-2010, 01:02 AM

Dear Beretta 92FS Clone lovers:

I have owned one for over a year now and loved it, reasonable accuracy for such a cheap gun and very good overall feel. However, if you seriously want to know how good your clone is, try shooting anything betwee 70-100 rounds CONTINUOUSLY. Mine gave up after just 60 shots during a practice target shooting session. I was shooting chinese and POF rounds. The slide swelled up/dilated on the inside (both sides) just at the point at which the ejection port of the slide starts. Because of this, the barrel movement was ristricted and the gun simply jammed altogether. Although I fixed it myself later and it works fine now, I don't trust it anymore and would never rely on it. The reason for this malfunction is obvious... poor quality metal of the slide...

Just thought it would be important to share with you guys...

Regards!

9mm

01-05-2010, 12:49 AM

does any1 ve any idea wat ll be the cost of extra mags of 92fs clone ??

ACHILLES

01-05-2010, 12:57 AM

the US MAG IS for 1k.

9mm

01-05-2010, 01:08 AM

ll the US mag work fr 92fs clone ?

n do u ve any idea of the cost in khi ?

ACHILLES

01-05-2010, 01:15 AM

US one should work in clone. In karachi i think price will be not 1k. More than that

RazaRajpoot

15-10-2010, 06:46 PM

Asslam-o-Alaikum every one

emre

18-10-2010, 01:59 PM

This is a dangerous target practice area and a dangerous target. The rear area of the target is open, and tree bodies can cause very unpredictable ricochets. I would suggest supporting the rear area of the target with plenty of sandbags etc . to stop the missed bullets to prevent bitter experiences.