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Ashes
12-02-2013, 08:12 PM
Good evening gentlemen,

I've been following the threads here for some time now and finally decided to register myself and seek guidance.

A little background first:

I'm 37 years old, working at an MNC in Khi. I've always been fascinated by firearms and cameras (they both shoot!) However I chose to pick up the camera first since I'm against hunting for sport.

I've been a decent shot since a kid, first with my Gamo air-pistol and later on in my early 20's moving into skeet shooting for a bit. Didnt do it much but I have a fair idea of gun handling.

I'm not looking for a firearm to shoot with from my rooftop on New Year's, nor do i plan on snatching mobiles or rob banks :-D

On the contrary, living in Khi, I'm pretty tired of being mugged out of hard earned money and valuables and hearing stories of burglaries and robberies in my neighbourhood and would rather be proactive about it and protect my family (not that my Rottweiler doesn't do a good job, but still).

I had my All-Pakistan License and carrying permit made back in 2005 thru a political agent, Malakand but never really "bought" or owned a gun before, and wish to change that now.

Had my license checked and I've been told that its fine and that the PO can be renewed and a new 144 obtained.

My Ordeal:

I'm confused between the variety out there. My range can vary, though i initially went out looking for the new Taurus 24/7 G2, but got lost in all the goodies available!

I'm looking to spend upto 70K ideally, but can take it higher for the right handgun.

I want an easily concealed, yet large enough to easily handle pistol (I have largish hands) in either 9mm or .45 cal.
the most important aspects for me arranged in priority are:

1. reliability (don't wanna leave my kids orphaned cos my gun didnt fire!)
3. manual safety (intend to carry chambered, striker or hammer doesn't matter)
2. minimal recoil.
4. good looks :) (everybody likes a sexy gun!)

Hope I'm not asking for too much in one pistol..?

so far I've considered Caracal (though the horror stories i read are putting me off), CZ Duty, Tauruses, Canik tp9, Zastava, Stoeger Cougar etc...

I hear all sorts of opinions about how a striker isn't reliable either...

Look forward to your guidance, plus I would appreciate a little introduction so I can get an idea who I'm talking to :-)

Cheers,
A.

Ashes
12-02-2013, 08:14 PM
or would I be better off with a good revolver..?

Denovo87
12-02-2013, 08:23 PM
Welcome aboard bro; lets start with CZ75 with a decocker as this option is lot safer n convenient than manual safety. Or you can look into a 357mag revolver.

Dont think introducing myself is necessary as you can find my posts, thread all over the place.

Ashes
12-02-2013, 08:28 PM
thanks a lot :)

how does a CZ75 compare to a Stoeger Cougar in terms of reliability, accuracy, recoil etc?

Trigger_happy78
12-02-2013, 08:51 PM
thanks a lot :)

how does a CZ75 compare to a Stoeger Cougar in terms of reliability, accuracy, recoil etc?

Welcome to the forum bro. I would second Denovo87 bro on this one. In other cercumstances i would've recommended you a Caracal. But until things are settled, i won't. My second fav gun is Cz's. Like you said that your a big guy go for the Cz75 full size. If you can't conceal it comfortably, then go for Cz75 PCR or compact. Rest of the guns like Stoegar and Taurus are good but not in the league of Cz's. There is no comparission of Cz with Stoegar.....

ballixd
12-02-2013, 09:13 PM
I will go with others and recommend CZ 75, but the question is can we get CZ 75 in 70K, because last i checked prices were a bit on the higher side, some members qouted 95K for it.
If that is the case then my vote goes to CZ 75 duty or a revolver. Taurus on the other hand can be very picky with the bullets.

Ashes
12-02-2013, 09:23 PM
Welcome to the forum bro. I would second Denovo87 bro on this one. In other cercumstances i would've recommended you a Caracal. But until things are settled, i won't. My second fav gun is Cz's. Like you said that your a big guy go for the Cz75 full size. If you can't conceal it comfortably, then go for Cz75 PCR or compact. Rest of the guns like Stoegar and Taurus are good but not in the league of Cz's. There is no comparission of Cz with Stoegar.....

Thank you triggerhappy :)

Is the CZ75 PCR the same size as Duty? How else are they different from one another in terms of reliability, comfort etc ?

Also kindly elaborate a bit on
In other cercumstances i would've recommended you a Caracal. But until things are settled, i won't.

joney
12-02-2013, 09:23 PM
Sir,

please donot go with your Malakand license... m preety sure that it's 100% fake...

i've got the same one and upon verification, it was found fake and unfortunately, i am assumin that you've got the same.

regarding first weapon, you already have couple of suggesions.

Hav good time and stay safe...

Ashes
12-02-2013, 09:27 PM
Oh? that's disappointing news. how can i get it verified?


Sir,

please donot go with your Malakand license... m preety sure that it's 100% fake...

i've got the same one and upon verification, it was found fake and unfortunately, i am assumin that you've got the same.

regarding first weapon, you already have couple of suggesions.

Hav good time and stay safe...

cz-duty fan
13-02-2013, 12:46 AM
CZ 75 D PCR compact. Perfect for conceal carrying too.

Soldier
13-02-2013, 06:42 AM
Welcome on PG Bro. :)
Hope you will enjoy your stay here.
Plz go for CZ.
Happy & Safe Shooting.

Ashes
13-02-2013, 09:04 AM
Thanks all for a warm welcome :)

I guess CZ it is then, however I am not too sure if I will want to carry it on me; still considering the pros and cons, so I'm open to other models too. Do suggest your opinions with reasons why u think a particular firearm is better than another.

Hope to learn a lot from you guys :)

Enigmatic Desires
13-02-2013, 12:02 PM
If its your first gun.....

And after Dark Justice's expereince. I would definetely recommend a revolver. .357 mag can handle not only any situation it can also fire .38 spacial ammo as wel which way easier to control then a full power .357 load. This way U can graduate from .38 to .357 on teh same weapon and since revolvers are inherently more simple to perate and mentain then pistols. Its an ideal weapon for a newbie.

I, myself started off with a .32 S&W long revolver.

joney
13-02-2013, 10:55 PM
Oh? that's disappointing news. how can i get it verified?


Just let me know 1 thing. When did you get it? and how much you paid for this.

To me, i'd paid 8k for the same and got in 2 weeks. its all fake.

regarding verification, i've asked some friend of a friend who'd sent an official letter to DCO Malakand (since 2008, political agent system has finished and proper DCO's are being oppointed). Received the responce after 1 n half month that license is fake...


You may stuck in some real problem if cought by Law enforcement agenceis.

Kindly try to get new license from Khi prior to have weaspon to avoid any inconvinience.

joney
13-02-2013, 10:57 PM
Thanks all for a warm welcome :)

I guess CZ it is then, however I am not too sure if I will want to carry it on me; still considering the pros and cons, so I'm open to other models too. Do suggest your opinions with reasons why u think a particular firearm is better than another.

Hope to learn a lot from you guys :)

Sir, you'll dafinately enjoy your stay here as well as will learn alot of things same as we did.

Just spare some time and exploring different threads. There's gold hidden over there:)

American Lockpicker
14-02-2013, 04:10 AM
Stoeger Cougar should be a good choice.

Usama
14-02-2013, 06:46 AM
thanks a lot :)

how does a CZ75 compare to a Stoeger Cougar in terms of currereliability, accuracy, recoil etc?

its heavy for CC Cz's P01 and P07 would be better by all means , currently stoeger is expensive and cost near a Cz so i would recommend anyone with stoeger ..

Ashes
14-02-2013, 01:13 PM
I got it back in 2005, back-dated to 2002.

paid around 10-12K, dont remember now.

Given it to a very reliable source for renewal, after which he says he will also get a "foreign entry" on it from the Home Dept.

I would've opted for a Khi-made proper license but those aren't being issued anymore, from what everyone tells me.



Just let me know 1 thing. When did you get it? and how much you paid for this.

To me, i'd paid 8k for the same and got in 2 weeks. its all fake.

regarding verification, i've asked some friend of a friend who'd sent an official letter to DCO Malakand (since 2008, political agent system has finished and proper DCO's are being oppointed). Received the responce after 1 n half month that license is fake...


You may stuck in some real problem if cought by Law enforcement agenceis.

Kindly try to get new license from Khi prior to have weaspon to avoid any inconvinience.

Ashes
14-02-2013, 01:17 PM
Stoeger Cougar should be a good choice.

Usama, now i'm confused again! :D

Weedpimp
14-02-2013, 01:17 PM
Fake licenses are a problem, this is the basic evil in our society. People pry on others needs. Khair i would recommend to take the longer but surefire route.

Best of luck!

Ashes
14-02-2013, 03:26 PM
oh wow... just went over a few threads about licenses; mind boggling and such a shame!

I guess the only thing my Malakand license will get me, is time behind bars... if i'm lucky.

and i hear new issues have been stopped till after elections?

joney
14-02-2013, 08:46 PM
I got it back in 2005, back-dated to 2002.

paid around 10-12K, dont remember now.

Given it to a very reliable source for renewal, after which he says he will also get a "foreign entry" on it from the Home Dept.

I would've opted for a Khi-made proper license but those aren't being issued anymore, from what everyone tells me.

i can only guide you to find some source in postal services. Divisional supperintendent will send the letter to DCO Malakand for verification. They'll respond it back in a month or so.. so you can find whether it is original or fake.

Yes, it's true that provincial licenses are not being issued till elections.

Ashes
15-02-2013, 07:42 AM
i can only guide you to find some source in postal services. Divisional supperintendent will send the letter to DCO Malakand for verification. They'll respond it back in a month or so.. so you can find whether it is original or fake.

Yes, it's true that provincial licenses are not being issued till elections.

I would appreciate any guidance to verify my document before I make my purchase.

I'm now confused between the Cougar and CZ75 p07 duty :-)
Luckily I have the time to research more and check both pistols, use what my friends have to compare what feels right to me. CC is no longer an issue btw. Both the duty and cougar have good reviews so far...

Enigmatic Desires
15-02-2013, 12:17 PM
I would appreciate any guidance to verify my document before I make my purchase.

I'm now confused between the Cougar and CZ75 p07 duty :-)
Luckily I have the time to research more and check both pistols, use what my friends have to compare what feels right to me. CC is no longer an issue btw. Both the duty and cougar have good reviews so far...

Actualy home department computerised licenses are being made. And they will be made till teh end of the tenure of this goverment and delivery timings are really fast now. They are trying to make as much money as possible.

Computerised lics unlike other licenses cannot be faked since the applicant has to be present in the home department. The procedure and end product is almost exactly like a passport.

At lucky star dealers are charging 25k per license and depending on dealer to dealer the issue times are between 7 days to 1 month.

Ashes
15-02-2013, 12:31 PM
I've moved the license issue to the relevant thread :)

Coming back to this now:


confused between the Cougar and CZ75 p07 duty :-)
Luckily I have the time to research more and check both pistols, use what my friends have to compare what feels right to me. CC is no longer an issue btw. Both the duty and cougar have good reviews so far...

OD is a sesky piece too

Enigmatic Desires
15-02-2013, 12:35 PM
The OD however does not have a manual safety. ANd if it does it does not have a decocker. Thats my issue with the whole CZ product range. Either they have external safeties or decockers. Never both in the same gun. The Caugher however has both. ANd a rolling pin type safety as well.

However at 85k + I dont think its a value deal. Since It was available sub 60k only a few months back.

Ashes
15-02-2013, 12:37 PM
Saala badluck hi kharab hai! :D

Enigmatic Desires
15-02-2013, 01:32 PM
Turks have gone berzerk. At least their pistols are insanely priced. However the same cant be said about the shotguns though. Which are still available at the rates they should be available on.

Ashes
15-02-2013, 05:14 PM
Turks have gone berzerk. At least their pistols are insanely priced. However the same cant be said about the shotguns though. Which are still available at the rates they should be available on.

So this means i need to raise the bar and increase my budget substantially... If I plan on getting a gun for say, 70K, including the license (if i need to have it made, i still tell myself ke sab theek hojayega!), ammo etc. that hikes it all up to 100K+. and from the way the Turks are behaving (not very thoughtful of them at all), maybe the overall expense might reach 125K or more.

hmmmm

Enigmatic Desires
15-02-2013, 06:02 PM
Actually some1 had imported a few PB pistols from turkey on his NPB quota. As a result a consignment was blocked and the resulting shortage led to a price hike which as is the way of things never came down. I would think a decent turk should set U back by around 65k or so. Add 25k for a license. And around 4k or so for a hundred bullets (chinese red box) what ever the going rate may be then. If U want hollow point ammo of course that would be substantially more expensive.Add another 1 or 2k for registration and entries. And another couple of Ks for section 144 carry permit (3 months) and of course a holster + cleaning kit. 1K minimum.

You should be under the 110k bar.

Should you buy a weapon with an accessory rail a laser aiming module will set u back by another few Ks And a Hogue grip yet another 2K

However above 70K Turks I feel are pointless. Since u can get a Taurus PT 92 or 917c in that range.

If you want to keep your expenses below 100k. Then I suggest going Chinese. Our Chee nee bhai make some pretty decent fire arms actually.

The NP 22 or its all steel counterpart is an absolute tank. Price 45 to 42k. Its smaller brother the NP (Norinco Pistol) 34 is 45k or so. While the staple of the industry the by now ubiquitous CF 98 is a great gun in its price range. It has a clearly visible & felt loaded chamber indicator. (Something missing in the cougar) Like the cougar a rotating barrel mechanism that's supposed to dampen the recoil. A control lever that both decocks and acts as manual safety, smallish size, light weight and the new generation even comes with rails.

And its a highly reliable weapon since it has been adopted by the largest army in the world as their official side arm!! All this with a around 40k price tag :)

That should put u firmly under the 100k range. In fact You should be done around 85k or so all told.

Ashes
15-02-2013, 07:25 PM
Actually some1 had imported a few PB pistols from turkey on his NPB quota. As a result a consignment was blocked and the resulting shortage led to a price hike which as is the way of things never came down. I would think a decent turk should set U back by around 65k or so. Add 25k for a license. And around 4k or so for a hundred bullets (chinese red box) what ever the going rate may be then. If U want hollow point ammo of course that would be substantially more expensive.Add another 1 or 2k for registration and entries. And another couple of Ks for section 144 carry permit (3 months) and of course a holster + cleaning kit. 1K minimum.

You should be under the 110k bar.

Should you buy a weapon with an accessory rail a laser aiming module will set u back by another few Ks And a Hogue grip yet another 2K

However above 70K Turks I feel are pointless. Since u can get a Taurus PT 92 or 917c in that range.

If you want to keep your expenses below 100k. Then I suggest going Chinese. Our Chee nee bhai make some pretty decent fire arms actually.

The NP 22 or its all steel counterpart is an absolute tank. Price 45 to 42k. Its smaller brother the NP (Norinco Pistol) 34 is 45k or so. While the staple of the industry the by now ubiquitous CF 98 is a great gun in its price range. It has a clearly visible & felt loaded chamber indicator. (Something missing in the cougar) Like the cougar a rotating barrel mechanism that's supposed to dampen the recoil. A control lever that both decocks and acts as manual safety, smallish size, light weight and the new generation even comes with rails.

And its a highly reliable weapon since it has been adopted by the largest army in the world as their official side arm!! All this with a around 40k price tag :)

That should put u firmly under the 100k range. In fact You should be done around 85k or so all told.

Sweetest!!!

Though I like the sexy looks of the Caracal (despite having read the horror stories!) / Canik / CZ 75 P-07 Duty / Cougar etc etc, have to watch the pocket too :D

I may just get a Norinco, let's see. First things first ;)

s.jawad
15-02-2013, 09:45 PM
Sweetest!!!

Though I like the sexy looks of the Caracal (despite having read the horror stories!) / Canik / CZ 75 P-07 Duty / Cougar etc etc, have to watch the pocket too :D

I may just get a Norinco, let's see. First things first ;)

Brother as ED sir sugest you go for NP22 i also used this and it's the best one in this price range.
Regards

Enigmatic Desires
15-02-2013, 11:04 PM
Sweetest!!!

Though I like the sexy looks of the Caracal (despite having read the horror stories!) / Canik / CZ 75 P-07 Duty / Cougar etc etc, have to watch the pocket too :D

I may just get a Norinco, let's see. First things first ;)

The problem with hammerless, manual safety less, decocker less permanently cocked weapons is that unless the user is trained and experienced the chances of a AD are EXTREMELY high.. Heck last I mysel f handled it i just touched the trigger the darned thing clicked... I shudder to think what might have happened had it been loaded... I personally know of an AD with a Glock by a friend who almost lost his 'family jewels' and has now shifted to the Beretta.

I also know of a at least one member here who did get it and then got rid of it. Cause he was kind of afraid of losing his jewels as well. If its loaded and u take it out fast and your finger so much as curls around the trigger......... pfft!

s.jawad
15-02-2013, 11:13 PM
The problem with hammerless, manual safety less, decocker less permanently cocked weapons is that unless the user is trained and experienced the chances of a AD are EXTREMELY high.. Heck last I mysel f handled it i just touched the trigger the darned thing clicked... I shudder to think what might have happened had it been loaded... I personally know of an AD with a Glock by a friend who almost lost his 'family jewels' and has now shifted to the Beretta.

I also know of a at least one member here who did get it and then got rid of it. Cause he was kind of afraid of losing his jewels as well. If its loaded and u take it out fast and your finger so much as curls around the trigger......... pfft!

OH ED sir it's my mistake i don't properly read his review that this is his first pistol AGAIN SORRY sir.
Regards

Enigmatic Desires
16-02-2013, 12:45 AM
[QUOTE=s.jawad;342779]OH ED sir it's my mistake i don't properly read his review that this is his first pistol AGAIN SORRY sir.
Regards[/QUOTE

Jawed bhai I meant the caracal. The NP 22 does have a decocker

Ashes
16-02-2013, 07:16 AM
The problem with hammerless, manual safety less, decocker less permanently cocked weapons is that unless the user is trained and experienced the chances of a AD are EXTREMELY high.. Heck last I mysel f handled it i just touched the trigger the darned thing clicked... I shudder to think what might have happened had it been loaded... I personally know of an AD with a Glock by a friend who almost lost his 'family jewels' and has now shifted to the Beretta.

I also know of a at least one member here who did get it and then got rid of it. Cause he was kind of afraid of losing his jewels as well. If its loaded and u take it out fast and your finger so much as curls around the trigger......... pfft!

I am much in love with myself, and till death do me and my "twig n berries" part. Amen.

When I initially got my license made, it was for the appeal of the newly found Taurus PT 24/7, it just fit my hand like a custom-made piece... Good thing I didn't buy it then as later I heard lousy things abt the issues it had with less than high quality ammo etc. Then I got aroused at the news of the 24/7 G2 which claimed to have improved on the negatives of the Pro.
While browsing Tactical Arms, I came across the Canik TP9 and Caracal and almost got tangled in a love triangle!

Good thing I found this forum and such helpful people as yourself who made absolute sense and explained things clearly. Now I'm stuck between the CZ 75 P series Duty and Cougar 8000. But ofcourse considering my budget, the Norinco seems like a good value weapon.

I've dropped the plan of CC due to our not so healthy LEAs and how things can go wrong even with a valid license and 144. Pillion riding bans and section 144 are enforced at the snap of a finger in our city and cause a lot of grievances by getting caught.

Even though my childhood friend is an SP in Khi and a first cousin happens to be the same in Peshawar, I don't usually like asking for help from them, plus I'm a bit "unconventional" in giving bribes, therefore the best policy I can adopt is avoidance of getting in trouble.

I'm considering keeping the handgun as a HD tool now, and a 500,000 volts cartridge throwing Taser in the car!

Still contemplating coz I hear stories of people getting into serious cop-trouble with a valid gun in CC, and then also success stories where a person shot muggers and police thanked him and let him go without even going to the station!

So living in a household where Im not only the only male member (besides my dog) but also the sole provider, I'd rather be more cautious than sentimental ;)

Ashes
16-02-2013, 07:24 AM
OH ED sir it's my mistake i don't properly read his review that this is his first pistol AGAIN SORRY sir.
Regards

Thank you Jawad, for your input and suggestion, I will look into the Norinco when the time to go shopping arrives :)
However, I would like to elaborate that this will be my first "owned" gun. I have handled an official police issue Steyr GB quite extensively back in the day and have a decent idea about usage and safety. But that was some time ago and I believe using someone's gun, and owning one and/or carrying it are quite different things.

Thanks again though for your consideration :)

Ashes
16-02-2013, 05:56 PM
Ok, I went browsing to Tactical Arms today. Checked out the Cougar and Zastava. They said they were out of Norincos at the moment though.

I found the Cougar to be a nice fit and feel in my hand, the Zastava too but havent done any homework on her yet.

Any suggestions between the 2?

Enigmatic Desires
16-02-2013, 06:27 PM
Well. Ashes thing is I have used a really neat stun gun and am proberly the most ardent of advocates when it comes yee humble pepper spray. My sis and most of female friends carry em. (And if they don't I make good and certain that they do) before giving it to my sis I made it a point of kind of using it on myself..

Trust me that was NOT an experience I would ever care to repeat this side of the grave.....

They are cheap (Less then 2k) reliable. effective and can take down multiple assilents. I have never used a Taser. Its a decent self defence tool albeit with 2 major disadvantages. 1). It can take down 1 perp only. And he wil get up within seconds.

Unlike a pepper spray where the poor devil is blind and in agony for an hour at least..

Having said that would I advocate a non lethal response to some one armed with a gun? umm NO..

I used to carry both a gun and a spray both.. But every time I perceived a threat I went for the gun quite instinctively...

As regards the cougar and the Zastava? The cougar beyond a doubt. The Zestava ( I assume U are talking about the Scorpion and not the TT) I had shot em both at the range together and while I found the 999 to be more accurate and comfortable then the cougar I don't like the fact that she does not have a manual safety. More ever she is a service weapon not designed for CC. The Cougar is a Beretta offspring and was formerly Beretta Cougar before Beretta purchased Stoeger lock, stock and barrel (Quite literally)

The cougar is smaller but she is slightly louder and she does not have a dedicated loaded chamber indicator. A trait that the 999 has.

In the end its your preference. I personally believe that the weapon chooses the shooter not the other way around.

P.S This is a review of tactical arms

http://www.pakguns.com/showthread.php?9568-Tactical-Arms-Bahadurbad-A-Review

Ashes
16-02-2013, 08:09 PM
Erm ED? U used a pepper spray on yourself..?

Hehehehe, I really beg ur pardon! But LOL! :D

Phew, getting that out of my system, let's move on :)

I've seen the result of a PS back in my college days when a very desirable blonde in an otherwise deserted parking lot used it on an assailant with a knife and I saw it from my window (I was checking her out initially, come on, I was 21!) the guy was writhing about in pain! I make sure my wife carries it too and have got seconds for my sister and niece.

Ur reason is exactly why I wouldn't use it on a gun-carrying mugger though and I have given these instructions to the ladies too.

I was made to believe that a cartridge firing taser of 500,000 volts which can shoot 2 pieces consecutively before reloading would destabilise a perp for a good few minutes but haven't researched enough yet.

And yes, I read ur wonderful and true to the letter review of TA a couple of weeks ago and had the same exact feeling when I went there the first time. Only a shiny place with relatively good customer service and window shopping. However I have returned thrice just for the heck of it and to see and compare weapons.

I don't trust them for a number of reasons and easily available PB Ziganas is one of them.

As for the weapons, I did extensive reading on the Stoeger and have full faith in their workmanship by now. During lunch today I received divine intervention in the form of a colleague who said he has a Cougar, loves it and frequents some range near CBM, Korangi.
The Zastava was an EZ and not a CZ999, I believe. Though the same guy gave me different model names and prices all three times I went there...

Enigmatic Desires
17-02-2013, 01:14 AM
Well.. I checked the spray out by spraying it.. Then went to see the droplets to asertain its effective range. one teeny lill droplet got in my eye.. and when i started rubbing frantically I got it in my other eye as welll..

UGH!!

But then I had someone take my spray and spray it liberally on his seekh kababs and then proceed to eat em with relish.. So I guess it takes all kinds..

As regards the scorpion.. The EZ 9 is basicaly hte same gun wiht a rail and some cosmetic changes.

I know a lot of people dont like striker fired Tauruses.. But my experience with the 24/7 using Chinese red box has been quite good.

That range would be the Airmen club golf course range.

Ashes
17-02-2013, 06:01 PM
Well.. I checked the spray out by spraying it.. Then went to see the droplets to asertain its effective range. one teeny lill droplet got in my eye.. and when i started rubbing frantically I got it in my other eye as welll..

UGH!!

But then I had someone take my spray and spray it liberally on his seekh kababs and then proceed to eat em with relish.. So I guess it takes all kinds..

As regards the scorpion.. The EZ 9 is basicaly hte same gun wiht a rail and some cosmetic changes.

I know a lot of people dont like striker fired Tauruses.. But my experience with the 24/7 using Chinese red box has been quite good.

That range would be the Airmen club golf course range.

Speaking of which, let's talk about striker-fired pistols, shall we? :)
I hear good things about the new Taurus 24/7 Gen2...

Abbas
17-02-2013, 06:57 PM
@Ashes Welcome to the forums !

If I could only have one and one handgun (shudders at the thought) it would be the CZ Shadow no questions asked. Nothing else comes close.

http://www.pakguns.com/showthread.php?5868-Shootout-CZ-Shadow-vs-the-Glock-17

Regards,

Ashes
17-02-2013, 09:13 PM
@Ashes Welcome to the forums !

If I could only have one and one handgun (shudders at the thought) it would be the CZ Shadow no questions asked. Nothing else comes close.

http://www.pakguns.com/showthread.php?5868-Shootout-CZ-Shadow-vs-the-Glock-17

Regards,

Thanks a lot :)
I'm overwhelmed at the welcome and support I have received so far! I will surely look into it and do lots of homework before settling on the best choice that comes in my budget :D Unfortunately I hadn't realised the way prices had hiked lately and either I'll have to go for something lesser or wait for my bonus to come thru before I go shopping.

My second will be a shotgun for HD and third, a revolver for CC inshAllah

Ashes
19-02-2013, 03:27 PM
Considering the way prices seem to have shot up, I might go for used weapons too...